planetf1.com

It is currently Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:49 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 1:36 pm
Posts: 2236
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/anal ... f1-903516/

Ross is suggesting that F1 uses an idea in Nascar where the cars are inspected openly as a means of closing up the field. I can well imagine the reaction from a portion of this forum, but really what's the problem? Why is secrecy a good thing in 'sport'. I can't see Ferrari agreeing to this and their veto will probably be used, but it could at the very least be a tool they could use to lever fairer distribution of funds...

_________________
Shoot999: "And anyone who puts a Y on the end of his name as a nickname should be punched in the face repeatedly."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:46 pm
Posts: 840
Like many of Brawn's ideas, it's excellent and would cut down the cost of all the photography and subtle espionage at every GP and test. Of course, it would have to be limited to non strip down stuff, so no peering inside engines, but they could insist on the removal of covers and so on.

I doubt that Ferrari would have objected for the last 8 years, it would have done them a lot of good. The big teams have their own development tracks from the start of the season so unless they are deep in the stinky stuff they don't have much to gain but it's a great way for the back markers to close the gap quicker and at lower cost.


.

_________________
Me Like - Button, Hamilton, Webber, Rosberg
Over rated, over paid - Räikkönen, Alonso, Vettel. Schumacher
Disappointing - Massa, Kobayashi
I may be wrong about - Alonso


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 1:36 pm
Posts: 2236
Chunky has surprised me... but I know next time I look I will see a post that says...

WAAAAAAAAAAAH. F1 is for winnerz not loserz! Go watch NASCAR. F1 is best when the last cars are lapped after 3 laps, etc etc..

_________________
Shoot999: "And anyone who puts a Y on the end of his name as a nickname should be punched in the face repeatedly."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:51 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3546
Chunky wrote:
Like many of Brawn's ideas, it's excellent and would cut down the cost of all the photography and subtle espionage at every GP and test. Of course, it would have to be limited to non strip down stuff, so no peering inside engines, but they could insist on the removal of covers and so on.

I doubt that Ferrari would have objected for the last 8 years, it would have done them a lot of good. The big teams have their own development tracks from the start of the season so unless they are deep in the stinky stuff they don't have much to gain but it's a great way for the back markers to close the gap quicker and at lower cost.


.



Why no peering at the engines but everything else is fine?.

I dunno how I feel about this yet but if it's something to be considered it should be considered across the board I think.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 2:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9671
Location: Ireland
It's successful in another motorsport discipline so it's worth considering. However I just can't see it happening. The teams still hold too much sway

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 1:36 pm
Posts: 2236
Indeed, the top teams will never allow it. Which rather begs the question, who's running the damn series... I think we all know the answer to that.
I'd be interested to know exactly what the financial arrangement are between the FIA and F1.

_________________
Shoot999: "And anyone who puts a Y on the end of his name as a nickname should be punched in the face repeatedly."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 4396
Location: Michigan, USA
ALESI wrote:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-could-brawn-s-open-inspection-idea-help-end-two-tier-f1-903516/

Ross is suggesting that F1 uses an idea in Nascar where the cars are inspected openly as a means of closing up the field. I can well imagine the reaction from a portion of this forum, but really what's the problem? Why is secrecy a good thing in 'sport'. I can't see Ferrari agreeing to this and their veto will probably be used, but it could at the very least be a tool they could use to lever fairer distribution of funds...

Short answer: because F1 isn't a sport, it's an engineering challenge.

Yes, this hackneyed idea would probably close up the field, but how is it the slightest bit fair? Spend a hundred million developing your car only for someone else to copy it? This, like a suspicious number of Ross's ideas lately, seems to be pointing in the eventual direction of a spec series - which, by the way, is what NASCAR pretty much is. I do not, and will never, support any idea that takes technical innovation out of Formula One. People who want the cars to be artificially equal are, in my opinion, trying to make F1 into something it's not. Instead, the rules should be designed so that teams succeed or fail on their merits; open development, open testing, and give them all a reasonable amount of money. Whoever wins is the best.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2017: Don't Ask| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
Wins: 3 | Podiums: 11

PF1 Top Three Constructor's Championship
2015 (No Limit Excedrin Racing): CHAMPIONS


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 10:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:00 pm
Posts: 4504
Exediron wrote:
ALESI wrote:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-could-brawn-s-open-inspection-idea-help-end-two-tier-f1-903516/

Ross is suggesting that F1 uses an idea in Nascar where the cars are inspected openly as a means of closing up the field. I can well imagine the reaction from a portion of this forum, but really what's the problem? Why is secrecy a good thing in 'sport'. I can't see Ferrari agreeing to this and their veto will probably be used, but it could at the very least be a tool they could use to lever fairer distribution of funds...

Short answer: because F1 isn't a sport, it's an engineering challenge.

Yes, this hackneyed idea would probably close up the field, but how is it the slightest bit fair? Spend a hundred million developing your car only for someone else to copy it? This, like a suspicious number of Ross's ideas lately, seems to be pointing in the eventual direction of a spec series - which, by the way, is what NASCAR pretty much is. I do not, and will never, support any idea that takes technical innovation out of Formula One. People who want the cars to be artificially equal are, in my opinion, trying to make F1 into something it's not. Instead, the rules should be designed so that teams succeed or fail on their merits; open development, open testing, and give them all a reasonable amount of money. Whoever wins is the best.

I agree with this. Unfortunately a lot of F1 fans are more driver centric and are less concerned with the team dynamic or the engineering aspect.

There are plenty of spec series out there and I'm not interested in seeing one of the few top level series that isn't move in that direction.

_________________
{Insert clever sig line here}


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 11:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 1:36 pm
Posts: 2236
Exediron wrote:
Short answer: because F1 isn't a sport, it's an engineering challenge.


While this is a fair answer, an engineering challenge does not make for a good TV spectator experience. And that's where the cash for it comes from...

I'm certainly not suggesting a spec series, but at the same time I don't want the cars five seconds apart.. I doubt this idea would make much difference to the order, but perhaps if most of the cars could finish on the same lap then some 'illusion' of sport might be allowed to persist.

_________________
Shoot999: "And anyone who puts a Y on the end of his name as a nickname should be punched in the face repeatedly."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 5:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:05 pm
Posts: 2538
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Wasn't this originally Vettel's idea after 2015 Australia GP in the press conference. :)

_________________
“Suddenly the steering wheel was in my hands. I tried to put it back on, but it was too late. I was just wondering where I was going to end up.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 5:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:38 am
Posts: 177
I don't see it working in F1 unless you made it a spec series. Red Bull and Torro Rosso had pretty much identical cars a few years ago but Torro Rosso didn't have the budget to develop it as Red Bull did.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2003 1:36 pm
Posts: 2236
Underviewer wrote:
I don't see it working in F1 unless you made it a spec series. Red Bull and Torro Rosso had pretty much identical cars a few years ago but Torro Rosso didn't have the budget to develop it as Red Bull did.


If it was a spec series, there wouldn't be much point would there? Oh look their car is exactly the same as ours...

_________________
Shoot999: "And anyone who puts a Y on the end of his name as a nickname should be punched in the face repeatedly."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 10:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:45 am
Posts: 508
Location: Michigan, USA
RaggedMan wrote:
There are plenty of spec series out there and I'm not interested in seeing one of the few top level series that isn't move in that direction.


This sums up my concern with the idea, really. I'll never be in favour of any idea that would lead to transforming F1 into a spec series; to me, that's directly opposed to what it should be.

That said, if handled carefully and if this isn't the only change, such inspections wouldn't necessarily have to lead down that path. So long as such an inspection procedure wouldn't stifle innovation or lead towards all the cars being the same, I have no issue with it. In fact, the main way I could see this working out would be if at the same time the regulations are loosened, development is opened up, and more equitable cash distribution is in place; if the approaches taken to the formula are more different, being able to inspect the other cars at the same time could potentially even lead to further innovation rather than decrease it. However, if the regulations (and especially with regards to testing) remain as strict but this is also introduced, I could see it leading to a much too similar field.

It's probably worth considering, but I hope that all of the possible rammifications of the rule are properly weighed and considered, and that it's only adopted if it would be a net gain. I think that the main thing people are unhappy with is really more that it's obvious which teams are going to end up with the noticably better car in any given year (as in, those with more money) rather than that there is such a large gap. If there was a real chance that next year's best car would be, say, Toro Rosso or Haas, I don't think the big gaps would be a problem to so many. Car inspections could allow smaller teams to copy what the bigger teams are doing and catch up, but I don't think it would do much to aid the smaller teams in coming up with really clever or unique solutions, which to me is the better way to bring them forward.

In summary, I'm suspicious of this possible change, but that's in isolation. If it should come with a bunch of other changes that will really help things out, I can see it being more of a neutral thing. I struggle to see any real positives, but I could be missing something there.

_________________
Top Three: 5 wins, 17 podiums | 2016: 9th [6th] | 2017: 16th [6th]
Pick 10: 1 win, 4 podiums | 2016: 22nd | 2017: 23rd
F1 Oracle: 5 wins | 2016: 6th | 2017: 6th
Group Pick'em: 2 wins, 5 podiums | 2016: 14th | 2017: 12th


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:20 am
Posts: 69
Location: London, UK
I am not sure I see a problem. The teams are already sneaking all sorts of photos and inside info... why not make it open?

It will improve lead times for creating 'copied' parts & so more even racing, but only by a small amount... It is not the slippery slope to a spec series. Major upgrades are not introduced till europe cos they need to collect data on their own cars too.. not simply cos they need to copy someone else's design.

_________________
The bond that links your true family is not one of blood, but of respect and joy in each other's life. Rarely do members of one family grow up under the same roof.”
Richard Bach, Illusions: The Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group