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 Post subject: PF1: Vettel to Mercedes?
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:52 am 
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http://www.planetf1.com/news/lauda-stok ... edes-fire/

Lauda is a straight gentleman, but with this one he is quite straight. From the article:

He told Auto Bild: “He’s the best at the moment.

“He is a straight-lined guy without talking a lot.

“He knows what he wants, he knows the points where he has to find something within himself to get the maximum performance.

“Just an incredible guy.”



Was he talking about Vettel only, or was it also a message to a team member?

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 12:06 pm 
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It's pretty clear Mercedes are interested in Vettel. It's not so clear that Vettel would want to leave Ferrari - it's been an obvious long term career goal for him to win a title there, probably in no small part an emotional attachment to watching Michael as he grew up. Pragmatically it's really a coin toss as to which team might be the better option going forward, and I don't think he's financially driven, so I'd be surprised to see him leave Maranello. The one spanner in the works is if there's a falling out between Vettel and the Ferrari management, something the media tried to drum up last year, but I've seen no evidence that he's anything other than happy and comfortable there.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 2:18 pm 
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plenty of stories out there that vettel has already signed a pre agreement with merc. maybe he did that after a poor season and rosberg had retired ?
i wonder if merc would run hamilton and vettel at the same time, or let hamilton leave ?


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 2:39 pm 
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I too would be surprised to see him leave Ferrari, unless they drop the ball quite heavily this year. The team is looking in a good place at the moment and I'm sure he would want to bring success to them after such a long dry spell. And if he does win the title, then I don't see what his incentive to leave would be (unless of course it's to try and win with three different teams - we know he likes records).

I suspect the pre-agreement was before Ferrari confirmed their promise. I doubt it would bind him either way but it just covers his bases for next year (and no doubt would strengthen his bargaining position).

It's easy to see Mercedes' interest. A German driver, who's clearly very strong and can make the difference. Seems apolitical. What's not to like?


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:15 pm 
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Does Hamilton's contract run out this year? If not, then this is probably guff. If it does then it's a bargaining tool.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:23 pm 
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No way would Vettel leave Ferrari if they keep this form up, Mercedes would love to have him though but I see it more in the long term future.

It also all depends how Hamilton continues against Bottas. If Bottas is able to keep up his Russia form, Mercedes wouldn't be in a hurry to re-sign Hamilton. If Bottas is more on his China/Bahrain form then he might not get a long term contract. The next 4-5 races will shape who is in that Mercedes next year and how long their deal is. It could be that Bottas gets a 2 year deal, that way Mercedes could have a driver up for renewal each season (2018,2019,2010) ready to get Vettel when his is available.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:25 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
Does Hamilton's contract run out this year? If not, then this is probably guff. If it does then it's a bargaining tool.


Hamiltons contract runs out at the end of 2018 I believe, Bottas at the end of 2017. Mercedes typically do not allow both driver contracts to end on the same reason. It is one of the reasons they only wanted to give Nico a one year deal last season so he didn't end on the same year as Hamilton. Nico held firm and got his 2 year deal so would have also expired at the end of 2018.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:26 pm 
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lamo wrote:
No way would Vettel leave Ferrari if they keep this form up, Mercedes would love to have him though but I see it more in the long term future.

It also all depends how Hamilton continues against Bottas. If Bottas is able to keep up his Russia form, Mercedes wouldn't be in a hurry to re-sign Hamilton. If Bottas is more on his China/Bahrain form then he might not get a long term contract. The next 4-5 races will shape who is in that Mercedes next year and how long their deal is. It could be that Bottas gets a 2 year deal, that way Mercedes could have a driver up for renewal each season (2018,2019,2010) ready to get Vettel when his is available.


Could we see a swap with Hamilton moving to Ferrari? Either for 2018 or 2019? Hamilton may feel he has gotten all he can out of his relationship with Mercedes. I think secretely he would love to be a Ferrari world champion.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:40 pm 
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I believe that Seb too would LOVE to be a WDC in a Ferrari. Unless he does it this year, I would expect Seb to stick with Ferrari as long as he has a chance.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:25 pm 
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I can't believe for a moment vettel wants a merc seat , and just when his dream ride is getting there -whats the point , sorry but I don't see it
now Fernando I am for sale Alonso yes he swill be wanting a merc seat or a Ferrari seat for 2018- vettel will be more concerned about who his 2018 Ferrari team mate will be and trying very hard to influence all at Ferrari to get an unproven newbie who will not interfere with his dominant place in the Ferrari team


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:42 pm 
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Blake wrote:
I believe that Seb too would LOVE to be a WDC in a Ferrari. Unless he does it this year, I would expect Seb to stick with Ferrari as long as he has a chance.

I agree. Vettel already has four championships, and he's not just looking for any arbitrary team where he could win more. Ferrari means something to him beyond just a chance to win the title, and I expect him to stay put until either he retires or the relationship sours badly. Although Schumacher ended his career at Mercedes, I've never heard of Vettel having any special love for Merc. He's always wanted to be a Ferrari driver.

To me, Vettel seems a bit less mercenary than most top F1 drivers. I don't really see him leaving a team just because he sees a chance for a more competitive car elsewhere. I could be totally wrong, but that's how I personally read him.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 9:56 pm 
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slide wrote:
I can't believe for a moment vettel wants a merc seat , and just when his dream ride is getting there -whats the point , sorry but I don't see it
now Fernando I am for sale Alonso yes he swill be wanting a merc seat or a Ferrari seat for 2018- vettel will be more concerned about who his 2018 Ferrari team mate will be and trying very hard to influence all at Ferrari to get an unproven newbie who will not interfere with his dominant place in the Ferrari team


As good at your post could have been, you had to take a swipe at both Alonso and Vettel in very poor taste!


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:15 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
http://www.planetf1.com/news/lauda-stokes-the-vettel-to-mercedes-fire/

Lauda is a straight gentleman, but with this one he is quite straight. From the article:

He told Auto Bild: “He’s the best at the moment.

“He is a straight-lined guy without talking a lot.

“He knows what he wants, he knows the points where he has to find something within himself to get the maximum performance.

“Just an incredible guy.”



Was he talking about Vettel only, or was it also a message to a team member?

Unless something was actually signed last year then I can't see it happening now given the performance of Ferrari.

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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 11:22 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
slide wrote:
I can't believe for a moment vettel wants a merc seat , and just when his dream ride is getting there -whats the point , sorry but I don't see it
now Fernando I am for sale Alonso yes he swill be wanting a merc seat or a Ferrari seat for 2018- vettel will be more concerned about who his 2018 Ferrari team mate will be and trying very hard to influence all at Ferrari to get an unproven newbie who will not interfere with his dominant place in the Ferrari team


As good at your post could have been, you had to take a swipe at both Alonso and Vettel in very poor taste!

Poor taste, really?

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 1:46 am 
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maybe "poor taste" wasn't the exactly the right term, but his put-downs of both Alonso and Vettel were made to elicit a response, and did. I don't see anything really wrong in Rockie's response.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 2:21 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Rockie wrote:
slide wrote:
I can't believe for a moment vettel wants a merc seat , and just when his dream ride is getting there -whats the point , sorry but I don't see it
now Fernando I am for sale Alonso yes he swill be wanting a merc seat or a Ferrari seat for 2018- vettel will be more concerned about who his 2018 Ferrari team mate will be and trying very hard to influence all at Ferrari to get an unproven newbie who will not interfere with his dominant place in the Ferrari team


As good at your post could have been, you had to take a swipe at both Alonso and Vettel in very poor taste!

Poor taste, really?


Making an opinion sound as a fact!


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 6:22 am 
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I don't see why Vette would like to leave Ferrari. Ferrari seems on pair with Mercedes or even better.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 10:00 am 
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There was an article yesterday that Alonso wouldn't say no to Ferrari. So a grand swap of all three drivers?

But why oh why would Hamilton go back to Macca?


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:04 am 
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dizlexik wrote:
I don't see why Vette would like to leave Ferrari. Ferrari seems on pair with Mercedes or even better.


I didn't see why Hamilton would leave McLaren to join Mercedes :)


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 11:43 am 
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Ennis wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
I don't see why Vette would like to leave Ferrari. Ferrari seems on pair with Mercedes or even better.


I didn't see why Hamilton would leave McLaren to join Mercedes :)

I remember some bitterness with Dennis before he left. If memory serves me right


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:03 pm 
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slide wrote:
I can't believe for a moment vettel wants a merc seat


why not ? most everyone is thinking the same thing, if this story is true. that he probably signed it over the winter , and if i remember correctly, vettel is german


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:10 pm 
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They all want to drive for Ferrari but they do get tired seeing the silver cars win...

Schumacher was all but signed for Mclaren for the 1999 season but it fell through because Mclaren would not allow him to carry small personal sponsorship on his helmet and cap.
Alonso I am sure would have jumped at the chance to drive a Red Bull drive circa 2012/13 and Mercedes from 2014 on wards. Similarly Vettel will want that Mercedes seat if 2014-2016 is/was repeated in 2017. That doesn't seem the case, but if Ferrari started 2017 0.6 per lap behind Mercedes in a brand new era of rules I think Seb's thought process might start move to getting into that seat and giving up on the Ferrari project.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:39 pm 
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The problem with moving to Merc now is that it will not be anything special if he wins the WDC, if he can win Ferrari's first championship for 10+ years, that would be something to get excited about.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:41 pm 
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....OR maybe this is just a regular Mercedes ploy to distract Vettel.

Remember that Bottas commented on how the rumours of him moving to Ferrari affected his performance in 2016? Perhaps Merc is trying to do the same to Vettel/Ferrari.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 1:54 pm 
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A.J. wrote:
....OR maybe this is just a regular Mercedes ploy to distract Vettel.

Remember that Bottas commented on how the rumours of him moving to Ferrari affected his performance in 2016? Perhaps Merc is trying to do the same to Vettel/Ferrari.


Doubt it. Sometimes I do think Lauda just opens his mouth and speaks, then everyone scrambles around trying to find meaning that doesn't exist.

4x WDC Vettel is not "whoa I really want a big drive" Bottas. He is far too experienced at the sharp end to be distracted by things like this, even if there was some crazy masterplan behind all this.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 4:39 pm 
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lamo wrote:
They all want to drive for Ferrari but they do get tired seeing the silver cars win...

Schumacher was all but signed for Mclaren for the 1999 season but it fell through because Mclaren would not allow him to carry small personal sponsorship on his helmet and cap.
Alonso I am sure would have jumped at the chance to drive a Red Bull drive circa 2012/13 and Mercedes from 2014 on wards. Similarly Vettel will want that Mercedes seat if 2014-2016 is/was repeated in 2017. That doesn't seem the case, but if Ferrari started 2017 0.6 per lap behind Mercedes in a brand new era of rules I think Seb's thought process might start move to getting into that seat and giving up on the Ferrari project.


We can't look at things with a 20/20 retroactive vision. Nobody REALLY knows how any team will perform in a given season. I have to give a lot of credit to Hamilton, for example, for switching to Mercedes at the time that he did. That could not have been an easy decision. McLaren has been one of the best teams historically, they were his first team, and they had the pedigree that Merc did not possess. It was a bold move and it paid off. It's difficult to look back objectively, but if anyone has followed F1 for the past decade or more, then McLaren looked like a far better bet than Mercedes. There were other factory teams that have poured ample amounts of money into their F1 teams and came away empty handed. There was no guarantee that Mercedes would be any different. However, they managed to convince Hamilton (probably the fastest guy on the grid) that they are up to the task. It worked, and it produced one of the most dominant partnerships in F1 history.

Vettel's situation is a little bit different. He is already a 4x WDC so he doesn't have to do anything more to be remembered as an all time great. I am sure that he would like to emulate Schumacher and bring Ferrari back to success. He's already done a pretty good job of it, but I am sure that WDC in the red car is what he is aiming for. I am not sure if he has the motivation to go a dominant team just to rack up more wins. I guess he might, as losing gets boring fairly quickly, even for a former perennial winner.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 5:16 pm 
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dizlexik wrote:
I don't see why Vette would like to leave Ferrari. Ferrari seems on pair with Mercedes or even better.

Lets wait and see because at the start of the season Ferrari are very strong but as the season progresses they tend to fade, they usually dont keep up with Mercedes in updates.


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 5:35 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
There was an article yesterday that Alonso wouldn't say no to Ferrari. So a grand swap of all three drivers?

But why oh why would Hamilton go back to Macca?

He wouldn't and why would he as he has a contract with Mercedes for 2018 whereas Bottas does not.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 5:47 pm 
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A.J. wrote:
....OR maybe this is just a regular Mercedes ploy to distract Vettel.

Remember that Bottas commented on how the rumours of him moving to Ferrari affected his performance in 2016? Perhaps Merc is trying to do the same to Vettel/Ferrari.

This could well be true but like the Bottas situation there's not smoke without a fire.

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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:01 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
slide wrote:
I can't believe for a moment vettel wants a merc seat , and just when his dream ride is getting there -whats the point , sorry but I don't see it
now Fernando I am for sale Alonso yes he swill be wanting a merc seat or a Ferrari seat for 2018- vettel will be more concerned about who his 2018 Ferrari team mate will be and trying very hard to influence all at Ferrari to get an unproven newbie who will not interfere with his dominant place in the Ferrari team


As good at your post could have been, you had to take a swipe at both Alonso and Vettel in very poor taste!


just seeing it as it is , I hope Alonso is in a good seat next year and I hope vettel is in a good seat next year and with lewis at merc , hopefully all 3 are in top teams to slug it out

.......but plz lets have and keep a sense of humour about it all, Alonso has been back to previous teams, how many times ?,so his options are slim at best and vettel is trying to emulate schumie at Ferrari and will be very keen to not see Alonso back at Ferrari and toto really doesn't need the stress ,so we shall find Fernando for sale for a while yet with his invisable sign , and he could go to indy full time


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PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:09 pm 
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SmoothRide wrote:
lamo wrote:
They all want to drive for Ferrari but they do get tired seeing the silver cars win...

Schumacher was all but signed for Mclaren for the 1999 season but it fell through because Mclaren would not allow him to carry small personal sponsorship on his helmet and cap.
Alonso I am sure would have jumped at the chance to drive a Red Bull drive circa 2012/13 and Mercedes from 2014 on wards. Similarly Vettel will want that Mercedes seat if 2014-2016 is/was repeated in 2017. That doesn't seem the case, but if Ferrari started 2017 0.6 per lap behind Mercedes in a brand new era of rules I think Seb's thought process might start move to getting into that seat and giving up on the Ferrari project.


We can't look at things with a 20/20 retroactive vision. Nobody REALLY knows how any team will perform in a given season. I have to give a lot of credit to Hamilton, for example, for switching to Mercedes at the time that he did. That could not have been an easy decision. McLaren has been one of the best teams historically, they were his first team, and they had the pedigree that Merc did not possess. It was a bold move and it paid off. It's difficult to look back objectively, but if anyone has followed F1 for the past decade or more, then McLaren looked like a far better bet than Mercedes. There were other factory teams that have poured ample amounts of money into their F1 teams and came away empty handed. There was no guarantee that Mercedes would be any different. However, they managed to convince Hamilton (probably the fastest guy on the grid) that they are up to the task. It worked, and it produced one of the most dominant partnerships in F1 history.



You are completely correct. I remember being more than a bit horrified to learn that Hamilton was leaving McLaren. Back then I was a huge McLaren fan and I could not wrap my head around why Hamilton would leave a clearly better team than Mercedes. It seemed a dumb move. Now it turns out to have been an utterly fantastic move as Hamilton has avoided the immense humiliation of driving a car with a Honda engine. I was wrong even about that. When it was announced that Honda was returning to F1 with McLaren, I was very happy because I thought good times were returning to McLaren, the team that I originally followed back in the '80s. It's been nothing but a nonstop train wreck however.


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 2:43 am 
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slide wrote:
Rockie wrote:
slide wrote:
I can't believe for a moment vettel wants a merc seat , and just when his dream ride is getting there -whats the point , sorry but I don't see it
now Fernando I am for sale Alonso yes he swill be wanting a merc seat or a Ferrari seat for 2018- vettel will be more concerned about who his 2018 Ferrari team mate will be and trying very hard to influence all at Ferrari to get an unproven newbie who will not interfere with his dominant place in the Ferrari team


As good at your post could have been, you had to take a swipe at both Alonso and Vettel in very poor taste!


just seeing it as it is , I hope Alonso is in a good seat next year and I hope vettel is in a good seat next year and with lewis at merc , hopefully all 3 are in top teams to slug it out

.......but plz lets have and keep a sense of humour about it all, Alonso has been back to previous teams, how many times ?,so his options are slim at best and vettel is trying to emulate schumie at Ferrari and will be very keen to not see Alonso back at Ferrari and toto really doesn't need the stress ,so we shall find Fernando for sale for a while yet with his invisable sign , and he could go to indy full time


Please stop.....you are making too much sense

I don't see Vettel leaving Ferrari for now. If Bottas performs he will stay at Merc in my opinion, and Hamilton will fulfill his contract. In fact I don't think Alonso is the key to next year Silly Season, it is Kimi and honestly I could very well see Kimi staying at Ferrari one more year. If Kimi decides to hang his gloves, it will not be wise for Ferrari to return to Alonso, even if Vettel is not there. If Vettel moves they will retain Kimi and Sainz or Grosean (even tho he has not been setting the world of fire lately but lets wait for HAAS to sort the brakes) will be a good fit, I don't think Perez will be considered. I think Alonso knows this, that is why he is being so outspoken, he wants Honda out and Merc in at Macca, he must know the only realistic choices he has is either McLaren gets a more reliable PU via Merc, to Renault as replacement for Palmer, (but Renault has also had some issues and I don't know if the Alonso type would be welcomed). So in my opinion, Vettel wont move this will leave Alonso with 4 possible outcomes to his saga, Merc supplies McLaren, move to Renault, stay with McLaren even if they choose to keep Honda, and the other choice will be to say goodbye to F1. That "I am willing to talk to teams" is just smoke and mirrors, pressuring McLaren to drop Honda and create a space for Merc.


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:55 am 
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[quote="Blake"]maybe "poor taste" wasn't the exactly the right term, but his put-downs of both Alonso and Vettel were made to elicit a re
response, and did. I don't see anything really wrong in Rockie's response.[/quote

vettel will not want a strong teammate at Ferrari and Alonso is walking around making it very clear he is for sale for 2018

whats in poor taste , cause I can't see it -what I say is true and is not a put down of any drivers

maybe you could run tru my post again and try to find "a put down" , lol


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 10:28 am 
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Ennis wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
I don't see why Vette would like to leave Ferrari. Ferrari seems on pair with Mercedes or even better.


I didn't see why Hamilton would leave McLaren to join Mercedes :)

Nonsense. When Ferrari finally is doing good job, Vettel should leave? Hamilton move worked because there was big change on horizon (hybrid engine).

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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 10:31 am 
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nixxxon wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
I don't see why Vette would like to leave Ferrari. Ferrari seems on pair with Mercedes or even better.

Lets wait and see because at the start of the season Ferrari are very strong but as the season progresses they tend to fade, they usually dont keep up with Mercedes in updates.

Keep in mind that Ferrari abandoned 2016 car early in season and in the meantime big reorganization took place.

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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Can't see why VET would leave Ferrari. Ferrari is just a different beast all around


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 10:00 pm 
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Maranello1 wrote:
Can't see why VET would leave Ferrari. Ferrari is just a different beast all around


It's more about wishful thinking for those saying it and whoever started the rumour, by Monza the announcement will be made and put to bed but for now it let's people have something to talk about!


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 6:05 am 
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Seb would be an upgrade for Mercedes over Hamilton, but I can't see him leaving Ferrari now they are starting to look competitive again.


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 8:32 am 
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lamo wrote:
Schumacher was all but signed for Mclaren for the 1999 season but it fell through because Mclaren would not allow him to carry small personal sponsorship on his helmet and cap.
Interesting. I seem to recall a few observers stating it was more a case of personal antipathy between Schumacher and Dennis.

Lauda was instrumental in getting Hamilton to Mercedes. He might consider Vettel an easier to handle personality than him. But there's more to breaking a contract than some believe, even in F1.

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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:15 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 19856
MasterRacer wrote:
Seb would be an upgrade for Mercedes over Hamilton, but I can't see him leaving Ferrari now they are starting to look competitive again.

I'm not Lewis' greatest fan, but even I think that statement's a little strong. I think both drivers are comparable and there's not that much between them. Sure, they each have their own strengths and weaknesses but I'm not sure either would be an upgrade on the other. They have different temperaments, sure, but on track I can't see one winning where the other couldn't, for example.

I think Vettel would be much less of a management headache, if that's what you mean, but if you have either driver you could claim to have one of the best in your team


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