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 Post subject: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:12 pm 
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It isn't all that long ago that he'd been dumped by McLaren after a single season and, after getting the chance at a 'big team', looked like he had taken a huge misstep in his career path. Yet (at the risk of putting the jinx on him) he's currently on a 14-race streak of consecutive points finishes, dating back to Germany last year. That's the active leader amongst the grid, and one of the better consecutive points finishing streaks in recent years. Granted, the Force India has been a car capable of such finishes, and hasn't really had a great deal of unreliability issues, but it's still a nice little streak to be on. He has, of course, managed four further podiums since departing McLaren, and while it feels like he's been around forever, he is only 27 years old.

So my question is: what kind of opinion do people have of him now? Has he rebuilt his reputation to where it was before his year with McLaren? Do you think he could ever end up getting another chance to join a big team, or is he consigned to being seen as a good midfield driver but nothing more than that?

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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:39 pm 
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For me yeah his reputation is higher than it was pre-McLaren and he's doing a great job. Stacked up with Hulk very well and I think he has another big talent next to him now and he's handling him very well again.

Should replace Kimi at Ferrari for me next year. Sorry Kimi fans but I think it's the right time.

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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 5:39 pm 
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His year at Mclaren was nowhere near as bad as people would have you believe. He basically matched Button in the second half of the season and suffered some very poor luck. He was unfortunate that Mclaren had a queue of young drivers waiting.

He has done superbly at FI and edged Hulkenberg who making a mockery of his team mate now. If I was Ferrari I'd take him. One f the few on the grid that would be an upgrade on Kimi and knocks the likes of Grosjean into next week IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:04 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
His year at Mclaren was nowhere near as bad as people would have you believe. He basically matched Button in the second half of the season and suffered some very poor luck. He was unfortunate that Mclaren had a queue of young drivers waiting.

He has done superbly at FI and edged Hulkenberg who making a mockery of his team mate now. If I was Ferrari I'd take him. One f the few on the grid that would be an upgrade on Kimi and knocks the likes of Grosjean into next week IMO.

From what I've heard it wasn't just his on track performances that lost him the McLaren seat, but his off-track attitude and work ethic too. I think Sergio himself has alluded to this when quizzed about it.

Agree that he didn't drive too badly that year though.


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 6:41 pm 
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That was his misfortune to go to McLaren (which was 1 of their worst cars ever). People still think low of Perez by saying he couldn't strike a mark in a top team.

He has become consistent, mature & has lots of speed. He's 1 of the few drivers that willingly make an overtake & succeed as well. His current points streak is just a small justification of how much he's grown in the last 3 years.

He's a shoe fit for Ferrari! He has his eyes on Ferrari as well which is why he chose only 1 year contract extension at Force India as he knows 2018 seat should be up for grabs.

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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:48 pm 
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I rate Perez quite highly, and I also agree that his stint at Macca was nowhere near as bad as people make out. Part of that is that Button was himself consistently underrated throughout his career, and the fact that Perez all-but matched him wasn't given the significance it probably should have been.

I would say Perez is part of that group that exists just below the true top dogs of the sport, making him somewhere around a top 6-8 driver. Of the drivers not currently committed to a team long-term (although in F1 nobody is really committed) I would say he's not as good as Ricciardo, but close. If you consider Alonso to be available, then he's third-best behind Alonso and Ricciardo. I would also put Vettel, Hamilton and Verstappen ahead of him, but quite possibly not anybody else.

And yes, Perez should get the Ferrari seat. :thumbup:

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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:05 am 
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Exediron wrote:
I rate Perez quite highly, and I also agree that his stint at Macca was nowhere near as bad as people make out. Part of that is that Button was himself consistently underrated throughout his career, and the fact that Perez all-but matched him wasn't given the significance it probably should have been.

I would say Perez is part of that group that exists just below the true top dogs of the sport, making him somewhere around a top 6-8 driver. Of the drivers not currently committed to a team long-term (although in F1 nobody is really committed) I would say he's not as good as Ricciardo, but close. If you consider Alonso to be available, then he's third-best behind Alonso and Ricciardo. I would also put Vettel, Hamilton and Verstappen ahead of him, but quite possibly not anybody else.

And yes, Perez should get the Ferrari seat. :thumbup:


I pretty much agree entirely with that assessment.


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 8:56 am 
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I think he's the most underrated driver in F1. You have to be very good to do so many podiums in midfield cars. Probably close to the top 3 Alonso/Hamilton/Vettel and similar to Bottas/Kimi/Button and such. I think he's better than Hulk too.


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 12:36 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
He has become consistent, mature & has lots of speed.


Indeed, and this is exactly why putting a young driver into a top team too early can be a huge mistake. Not always, but if Sergio never gets another chance it should serve as a warning to other drivers. It also makes a mockery of the whole 'Driver X beat Driver Y' three years ago so Driver X is better than Driver Z who Driver Y beat seven years ago rubbish. Drivers improve over their career, or they should - with experience. And one would presume, at different rates.

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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 2:44 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
He has become consistent, mature & has lots of speed.


Indeed, and this is exactly why putting a young driver into a top team too early can be a huge mistake. Not always, but if Sergio never gets another chance it should serve as a warning to other drivers. It also makes a mockery of the whole 'Driver X beat Driver Y' three years ago so Driver X is better than Driver Z who Driver Y beat seven years ago rubbish. Drivers improve over their career, or they should - with experience. And one would presume, at different rates.


Don't agree with this. Perez took some time to adjust but then basically matched Button in the second half of the season in terms of performance. Pretty much exactly where you would expect his level to be given recent performances. I think 2013 is consistent with the Perez we have seen since. His problem in 2013 was driving a car that was slower than people thought it was going to be. That always hits a drivers reputation

hard. I think he has become more consistent since then but other than that I don't think much has changed. He showed he was close to Button then and I think that's where most people would place him as a driver.


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:01 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
ALESI wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
He has become consistent, mature & has lots of speed.


Indeed, and this is exactly why putting a young driver into a top team too early can be a huge mistake. Not always, but if Sergio never gets another chance it should serve as a warning to other drivers. It also makes a mockery of the whole 'Driver X beat Driver Y' three years ago so Driver X is better than Driver Z who Driver Y beat seven years ago rubbish. Drivers improve over their career, or they should - with experience. And one would presume, at different rates.


Don't agree with this. Perez took some time to adjust but then basically matched Button in the second half of the season in terms of performance. Pretty much exactly where you would expect his level to be given recent performances. I think 2013 is consistent with the Perez we have seen since. His problem in 2013 was driving a car that was slower than people thought it was going to be. That always hits a drivers reputation

hard. I think he has become more consistent since then but other than that I don't think much has changed. He showed he was close to Button then and I think that's where most people would place him as a driver.

I think what damaged Perez's reputation was incidents with other cars, it came across has him not being able to handle the pressure of being in a top team regardless that the car itself wasn't that good, also his attitude of that time was not very good, he was very arrogant.

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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:41 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
ALESI wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
He has become consistent, mature & has lots of speed.


Indeed, and this is exactly why putting a young driver into a top team too early can be a huge mistake. Not always, but if Sergio never gets another chance it should serve as a warning to other drivers. It also makes a mockery of the whole 'Driver X beat Driver Y' three years ago so Driver X is better than Driver Z who Driver Y beat seven years ago rubbish. Drivers improve over their career, or they should - with experience. And one would presume, at different rates.


Don't agree with this. Perez took some time to adjust but then basically matched Button in the second half of the season in terms of performance. Pretty much exactly where you would expect his level to be given recent performances. I think 2013 is consistent with the Perez we have seen since. His problem in 2013 was driving a car that was slower than people thought it was going to be. That always hits a drivers reputation

hard. I think he has become more consistent since then but other than that I don't think much has changed. He showed he was close to Button then and I think that's where most people would place him as a driver.

I think what damaged Perez's reputation was incidents with other cars, it came across has him not being able to handle the pressure of being in a top team regardless that the car itself wasn't that good, also his attitude of that time was not very good, he was very arrogant.


What incidents? I don't recall him being in an unusual amount of accidents in 2013?


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:52 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
What incidents? I don't recall him being in an unusual amount of accidents in 2013?

I do, although I couldn't necessarily name very many of them. He banged wheels with his own teammate in Bahrain, and in Monaco he had the famous run-in with Kimi. I remember that by Monaco people were discussing Perez as an erratic driver, so I think that definitely was his reputation at the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 2:22 am 
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Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
What incidents? I don't recall him being in an unusual amount of accidents in 2013?

I do, although I couldn't necessarily name very many of them. He banged wheels with his own teammate in Bahrain, and in Monaco he had the famous run-in with Kimi. I remember that by Monaco people were discussing Perez as an erratic driver, so I think that definitely was his reputation at the time.


Monaco was the only one I remembered. Bahrain was something of nothing really. Just some robust driving.

One dodgy incident in a year does not make a wild driver IMO. I didn't really remember him having that reputation buying he did I think it's unfair.

I do remember him at the time being called inconsistent. I find that more reslistic.


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Out of interest how much money does his backers pay? it would be a great move for Sergio Perez to move on to a better seat but it would be bad news for Force India and they would suffer financially. Unless Alfonso Celis Jr gets up to speed and they sign him.

I like Perez but if he went to Ferrari and wasn't a better driver than Kimi it could really damage his career, I think then I'd be right in calling him a 'Frentzen' great at small teams not so good at bigger ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 2:50 pm 
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Did anyone check Perez's points tally in the WDC standings when compared to the Red Bull drivers?

His consistency is speaking volumes.

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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 3:04 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Did anyone check Perez's points tally in the WDC standings when compared to the Red Bull drivers?

His consistency is speaking volumes.

Indeed, its 37 Ric, 35 Max and 34 Perez, although to be fair both Red Bulls have 2 DNF and Perez none


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 3:24 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Did anyone check Perez's points tally in the WDC standings when compared to the Red Bull drivers?

His consistency is speaking volumes.

Indeed, its 37 Ric, 35 Max and 34 Perez, although to be fair both Red Bulls have 2 DNF and Perez none


But that's not Perez's problem, is it? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 3:52 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Did anyone check Perez's points tally in the WDC standings when compared to the Red Bull drivers?

His consistency is speaking volumes.

Indeed, its 37 Ric, 35 Max and 34 Perez, although to be fair both Red Bulls have 2 DNF and Perez none


But that's not Perez's problem, is it? :D

Certainly not. He's doing everything in his power to make himself attractive to the top teams. I actually think he makes the ideal 2nd driver to either Hamilton or Vettel as he is not a particularly strong qualifier (so you wouldn't have to worry about him getting in the way) and he is particularly adept at executing alternative strategies.


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 4:24 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Did anyone check Perez's points tally in the WDC standings when compared to the Red Bull drivers?

His consistency is speaking volumes.

Indeed, its 37 Ric, 35 Max and 34 Perez, although to be fair both Red Bulls have 2 DNF and Perez none


Also to be fair, Perez is driving for a team with about 1/4 of the budget :)


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Ennis wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Did anyone check Perez's points tally in the WDC standings when compared to the Red Bull drivers?

His consistency is speaking volumes.

Indeed, its 37 Ric, 35 Max and 34 Perez, although to be fair both Red Bulls have 2 DNF and Perez none


Also to be fair, Perez is driving for a team with about 1/4 of the budget :)

True that too, Force Indie have been doing a superb job for many years with that limited budget.


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 10:51 pm 
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I would think that he must have quite a solid reputation by now. His consistency with Force India has been very good, and he's got far more podiums with them than one would expect. It's hard to judge him against the drivers in the top cars as it stands, but I'd guess him to be the best driver most top teams could pick up if they're on the look. Hopefully he will get a top drive in the next few seasons; I think he's definitely earned the chance. Right now I'm hoping that he'll wind up as Kimi's replacement at Ferrari, whenever Kimi does retire.

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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 11:33 pm 
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I think he he has matured a lot, he is one of that very few drives who has that killer instinct to attack at the right moment and make the most of any slight opportunity that he find. I really hope to ser him in wearing red overalls instead of pink, he could be a very good upgrade over Raikkonen


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:16 am 
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I was surprised at him getting a Mcl seat and thought he performed well against BUT, but he was by no means looking like a match and his mistakes and messing with others' races didn't improve. (K-Mag was worse at getting in others' way tho imho)

Ultimately tho , he got ousted cos of the power struggle between Dennis and shareholders and Whitmarsh, no? Deniis wanted MAG and thought he could get Lego sponsership etc. (Surprised they didn't go for it at the time but clearly they had foresight on Mcl's form *cheeky grin*.

However, PER has improved every season , strength upon strngth and gaining the racecraft he missed at the start. He is imho one of the best on the grid right now and a top team should get him quick. (THo I am also aware of how that makes Ocon look.. not sure it is unjustified either , of the rookies, he is by far and away performing best, no?)

Have fun :)

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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:46 am 
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Shia Luck wrote:
I was surprised at him getting a Mcl seat and thought he performed well against BUT, but he was by no means looking like a match and his mistakes and messing with others' races didn't improve. (K-Mag was worse at getting in others' way tho imho)

Ultimately tho , he got ousted cos of the power struggle between Dennis and shareholders and Whitmarsh, no? Deniis wanted MAG and thought he could get Lego sponsership etc. (Surprised they didn't go for it at the time but clearly they had foresight on Mcl's form *cheeky grin*.

However, PER has improved every season , strength upon strngth and gaining the racecraft he missed at the start. He is imho one of the best on the grid right now and a top team should get him quick. (THo I am also aware of how that makes Ocon look.. not sure it is unjustified either , of the rookies, he is by far and away performing best, no?)

Have fun :)


Have a look over the second half of the season. He was pretty much a match for Button.


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:41 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Shia Luck wrote:
I was surprised at him getting a Mcl seat and thought he performed well against BUT, but he was by no means looking like a match and his mistakes and messing with others' races didn't improve. (K-Mag was worse at getting in others' way tho imho)

Ultimately tho , he got ousted cos of the power struggle between Dennis and shareholders and Whitmarsh, no? Deniis wanted MAG and thought he could get Lego sponsership etc. (Surprised they didn't go for it at the time but clearly they had foresight on Mcl's form *cheeky grin*.

However, PER has improved every season , strength upon strngth and gaining the racecraft he missed at the start. He is imho one of the best on the grid right now and a top team should get him quick. (THo I am also aware of how that makes Ocon look.. not sure it is unjustified either , of the rookies, he is by far and away performing best, no?)

Have fun :)


Have a look over the second half of the season. He was pretty much a match for Button.


Also something I've repeatedly defended Perez on...

He was walking in to a team who expects to be winning, on a horrifically bad season for them and during a power struggle. An inexperienced guy, in a team he's not familiar with, against a guy who has been there forever, with all this political fighting and finger pointing and disarray happening around him... I'd be absolutely shocked if he managed to perform anywhere near his peak.

F1 fans (and sports fans in general) seem to expect our sportspeople to not be humans. There is so many outside influences that can impact performance that we just don't stop to consider.


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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 7:43 am 
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BTW, he's on a 15 race point scoring streak.

His consistency (and Ocon's even) is getting Force India nearer to Red Bull in WCC. Ofcourse Red Bull are stronger but as of now Force India duo are managing to be quite consistent.

Perez has a genuine shot for a Ferrari seat next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Sergio Perez
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:43 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Shia Luck wrote:
I was surprised at him getting a Mcl seat and thought he performed well against BUT, but he was by no means looking like a match and his mistakes and messing with others' races didn't improve. (K-Mag was worse at getting in others' way tho imho)

Ultimately tho , he got ousted cos of the power struggle between Dennis and shareholders and Whitmarsh, no? Deniis wanted MAG and thought he could get Lego sponsership etc. (Surprised they didn't go for it at the time but clearly they had foresight on Mcl's form *cheeky grin*.

However, PER has improved every season , strength upon strngth and gaining the racecraft he missed at the start. He is imho one of the best on the grid right now and a top team should get him quick. (THo I am also aware of how that makes Ocon look.. not sure it is unjustified either , of the rookies, he is by far and away performing best, no?)

Have fun :)


Have a look over the second half of the season. He was pretty much a match for Button.

The problem was that by that time the decision had already been made, Perez improved quite a lot after he knew he was leaving, I think they basically didn't give him enough time plus there were other issues like he had run ins with Button and Button was close with Whitmarsh plus there was talk at that time of him being very arrogant.

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