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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:29 am 
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Warheart01 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Prema wrote:
Detailed analyses of the turn 1 incident. Looks like mostly Kimi's fault.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i88Wc6sGNQ

Without looking at the analysis, I'd say it looked like mostly a racing incident that doesn't really need to be analyzed that deeply...


This. :thumbup:
Not everything has to be done to death.


Actually, if you looked that video, it showed 3 views from each cars' respective cameras, and it was apparent that 1. Bottas had no place to go, 2. Kimi hit Bottas, 3. Max left enough space to Kimi.

Nothing "to death" was there, don't be so over dramatic. It was one single post with one single link that I found interesting to to watch, and I posted it for those who minded. But I guess, my fault that there appeared "Kimi" and "fault" next to each other, hence this knee reaction.
Give it a break now.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:29 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
It's interesting to see that Lewis and Seb seem to be able to battle on track without developing animosity off of it. This was a good light-hearted moment in the press room.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUttPYFLs1E


Yes, the painful tension from the Rosberg era is lone gone. Thank god for that. It was painful watching the post race sessions with those two.

That's because Vettel knows how to race whilst Rosberg would sometimes just target Hamilton's car.


Can you give an example of when Rosberg just targeted Hamilton's car?


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:40 am 
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stevey wrote:
Both Vettels and Hamiltons pass seemed to really similar except for all the swerving by Sebastian.

Both had better tyres than the person they were following, both had DRS. The thing that made Sebastian's overtake good was the dummy to Bottas (though he almost binned it on the side), the thing that made Hamiltons overtake good was the setup of the overtake.

Yeah they were more or less the same. Seb's just looked more dramatic. I'll take any non-DRS passes over either of them

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:41 am 
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robins13 wrote:
If you were watching it on Star Sports HD feed, it's Channel 4 broadcast they were airing with Ben Edwards and David Coulthard and Karun as pit lane reporter.


Yes, my bad.

Realized when I heard Chandhok's pit-lane updates.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 11:56 am 
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Prema wrote:
Warheart01 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Prema wrote:
Detailed analyses of the turn 1 incident. Looks like mostly Kimi's fault.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i88Wc6sGNQ

Without looking at the analysis, I'd say it looked like mostly a racing incident that doesn't really need to be analyzed that deeply...


This. :thumbup:
Not everything has to be done to death.


Actually, if you looked that video, it showed 3 views from each cars' respective cameras, and it was apparent that 1. Bottas had no place to go, 2. Kimi hit Bottas, 3. Max left enough space to Kimi.

Nothing "to death" was there, don't be so over dramatic. It was one single post with one single link that I found interesting to to watch, and I posted it for those who minded. But I guess, my fault that there appeared "Kimi" and "fault" next to each other, hence this knee reaction.
Give it a break now.

You misunderstand me, I wasn't shooting the messenger, just pointing out that in my opinion any detailed video analysis needn't necessarily be done. Thanks for sharing it.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:03 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
It's not really your comment I take the most issue with. It's the idea that passing a front running car on track at Barcelona is just being written off as a foregone conclusion by some people who would make it out to be legendary had the drivers' roles been reversed.

Yes well it was made out to be a legendary pass without the roles reversed. Important pass - yes. Incredible - no.


Who said it was a legendary pass? I havent seen anyone make that claim.

I wasn't the one who brought the term into this discussion, but basically you were the one who made that claim, albeit you used the words incredible and great. Maybe you're just easily impressed.


That's a huge leap on your part, that's not justified at all. Amazing and legendary are simply not equivalent. You should concentrate much more on comprehending a writers intent before you post back. That way you can avoid these easy mistakes.

Ok, so...
■ Incredibe
■ Great
■ Amazing
□ Legendary.

Gotcha, sorry for my unjustified leap and poor comprehension skills.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:15 pm 
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LKS1 wrote:
Seb couldn't rely on DRS and better tyres to pass Bottas, and so he had to use feints to wrong-foot Bottas. It was good racing and great to watch.

Hamilton's pass on Vettel was nowhere near as impressive as it was pretty much entirely down to DRS and faster tyres.

An unexpectedly enjoyable race that bodes well for the rest of the season :) .

Actually that's exactly what he relied on. Seb had a much larger pace advantage over Bottas when making his pass than Lewis did over Seb when making his.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:17 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Seb couldn't rely on DRS and better tyres to pass Bottas, and so he had to use feints to wrong-foot Bottas. It was good racing and great to watch.

Hamilton's pass on Vettel was nowhere near as impressive as it was pretty much entirely down to DRS and faster tyres.

An unexpectedly enjoyable race that bodes well for the rest of the season :) .

Actually that's exactly what he relied on. Seb had a much larger pace advantage over Bottas when making his pass than Lewis did over Seb when making his.


Exactly. Seb had a much larger pace advantage over Bottas but still could not get past him quick enough to avoid losing a lot of time to Hamilton. This despite the advantage of DRS.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:45 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Different strokes for different folks. I can't see myself as being mates with Lewis Hamilton because I'm not a world renowned model or music superstar. And I don't play for Barcelona either. For some reason I believe Vettel is friends with some average Joes, people like me, friendships he keeps private

[For the record I admire Lewis Hamilton's ability to mix it with the celebrity elite and still do his talking on the track at the weekend. James Hunt got celebrated for as much back in the day]

Fair enough, not everyone is the same. Although it is difficult to really know if they behave the same way in their personal life anyway.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:49 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Seb couldn't rely on DRS and better tyres to pass Bottas, and so he had to use feints to wrong-foot Bottas. It was good racing and great to watch.

Hamilton's pass on Vettel was nowhere near as impressive as it was pretty much entirely down to DRS and faster tyres.

An unexpectedly enjoyable race that bodes well for the rest of the season :) .

Actually that's exactly what he relied on. Seb had a much larger pace advantage over Bottas when making his pass than Lewis did over Seb when making his.

What? What planet are you on? The reverse is true.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Prema wrote:
Warheart01 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Prema wrote:
Detailed analyses of the turn 1 incident. Looks like mostly Kimi's fault.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i88Wc6sGNQ

Without looking at the analysis, I'd say it looked like mostly a racing incident that doesn't really need to be analyzed that deeply...


This. :thumbup:
Not everything has to be done to death.


Actually, if you looked that video, it showed 3 views from each cars' respective cameras, and it was apparent that 1. Bottas had no place to go, 2. Kimi hit Bottas, 3. Max left enough space to Kimi.

Nothing "to death" was there, don't be so over dramatic. It was one single post with one single link that I found interesting to to watch, and I posted it for those who minded. But I guess, my fault that there appeared "Kimi" and "fault" next to each other, hence this knee reaction.
Give it a break now.

You misunderstand me, I wasn't shooting the messenger, just pointing out that in my opinion any detailed video analysis needn't necessarily be done. Thanks for sharing it.


Well, the guy who took the effort to make that video, and who makes these videos on regular bases ("Driver61"), apparently wasn't informed about that prior to making it. And the messenger apparently did not think that deep and thoroughly before posting the link to it...


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:55 pm 
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Seb couldn't rely on DRS and better tyres to pass Bottas, and so he had to use feints to wrong-foot Bottas. It was good racing and great to watch.

Hamilton's pass on Vettel was nowhere near as impressive as it was pretty much entirely down to DRS and faster tyres.

An unexpectedly enjoyable race that bodes well for the rest of the season :) .

Actually that's exactly what he relied on. Seb had a much larger pace advantage over Bottas when making his pass than Lewis did over Seb when making his.

What? What planet are you on? The reverse is true.


Vettel was 3 seconds a lap quicker than Bottas when he overtook him. Bottas' tyres had gone. The lap Vettel overtook him he was 4 seconds ahead by the end of it. Bottas' next lap, his next lap, his in lap was also 2 seconds slower than Hamiltons was earlier on. He was very slow at this point. And that in lap in comparing him against Hamilton on 21 lap old softs, Vettel had new softs. The speed difference was huge.

The lap Hamilton overtook Vettel, Vettel had just set his fastest lap of the race... which was 0.1 slower than the actual fastest lap of the race and I believe the second fastest lap of the entire race. Sure Hamilton had a tyre advantage but Vettel was flying at the time Lewis overtook. Looking through all the data of others drivers, the soft seemed to be worth about 0.7-1.0 per lap.


Last edited by lamo on Mon May 15, 2017 1:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Seb couldn't rely on DRS and better tyres to pass Bottas, and so he had to use feints to wrong-foot Bottas. It was good racing and great to watch.

Hamilton's pass on Vettel was nowhere near as impressive as it was pretty much entirely down to DRS and faster tyres.

An unexpectedly enjoyable race that bodes well for the rest of the season :) .

Actually that's exactly what he relied on. Seb had a much larger pace advantage over Bottas when making his pass than Lewis did over Seb when making his.

What? What planet are you on? The reverse is true.

Earth, how about you? Bottas was on the tires he started the race with, while Seb was on fresh softs. In the case of Hamilton's pass, Lewis was on new softs while Vettel was on 1 lap newer mediums. The pace difference between Hamilton and Vettel was in the region of 1.0-1.3 seconds per lap while the pace difference between Bottas and Vettel was closer to 2.5 seconds per lap.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 1:24 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Seb couldn't rely on DRS and better tyres to pass Bottas, and so he had to use feints to wrong-foot Bottas. It was good racing and great to watch.

Hamilton's pass on Vettel was nowhere near as impressive as it was pretty much entirely down to DRS and faster tyres.

An unexpectedly enjoyable race that bodes well for the rest of the season :) .

Actually that's exactly what he relied on. Seb had a much larger pace advantage over Bottas when making his pass than Lewis did over Seb when making his.

What? What planet are you on? The reverse is true.

Earth, how about you? Bottas was on the tires he started the race with, while Seb was on fresh softs. In the case of Hamilton's pass, Lewis was on new softs while Vettel was on 1 lap newer mediums. The pace difference between Hamilton and Vettel was in the region of 1.0-1.3 seconds per lap while the pace difference between Bottas and Vettel was closer to 2.5 seconds per lap.


:thumbup: :nod:


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Seb couldn't rely on DRS and better tyres to pass Bottas, and so he had to use feints to wrong-foot Bottas. It was good racing and great to watch.

Hamilton's pass on Vettel was nowhere near as impressive as it was pretty much entirely down to DRS and faster tyres.

An unexpectedly enjoyable race that bodes well for the rest of the season :) .

Actually that's exactly what he relied on. Seb had a much larger pace advantage over Bottas when making his pass than Lewis did over Seb when making his.

What? What planet are you on? The reverse is true.


Bottas was actually the slowest driver on track when Vettel was behind with brand new tyres.
Hamilton overtake on Vettel was similar to the one Rosberg pulled last year on him in Barcelona(the guy on the inside takes a very defensive line and can not defend his position at the braking point).


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 1:53 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Seb couldn't rely on DRS and better tyres to pass Bottas, and so he had to use feints to wrong-foot Bottas. It was good racing and great to watch.

Hamilton's pass on Vettel was nowhere near as impressive as it was pretty much entirely down to DRS and faster tyres.

An unexpectedly enjoyable race that bodes well for the rest of the season :) .

Actually that's exactly what he relied on. Seb had a much larger pace advantage over Bottas when making his pass than Lewis did over Seb when making his.

What? What planet are you on? The reverse is true.

Earth, how about you? Bottas was on the tires he started the race with, while Seb was on fresh softs. In the case of Hamilton's pass, Lewis was on new softs while Vettel was on 1 lap newer mediums. The pace difference between Hamilton and Vettel was in the region of 1.0-1.3 seconds per lap while the pace difference between Bottas and Vettel was closer to 2.5 seconds per lap.

So when you can finally tear yourself away from your spreadsheet and get back to the real world how about looking at the actual footage. Vettel could only ever catch Bottas at the end of the straight, while Lewis could sail past Vettel with plenty of room to spare. Anyone who says the Ferrari was faster there wasn't actually watching


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:16 pm 
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Pullrod wrote:
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Seb couldn't rely on DRS and better tyres to pass Bottas, and so he had to use feints to wrong-foot Bottas. It was good racing and great to watch.

Hamilton's pass on Vettel was nowhere near as impressive as it was pretty much entirely down to DRS and faster tyres.

An unexpectedly enjoyable race that bodes well for the rest of the season :) .

Actually that's exactly what he relied on. Seb had a much larger pace advantage over Bottas when making his pass than Lewis did over Seb when making his.

What? What planet are you on? The reverse is true.


Bottas was actually the slowest driver on track when Vettel was behind with brand new tyres.
Hamilton overtake on Vettel was similar to the one Rosberg pulled last year on him in Barcelona(the guy on the inside takes a very defensive line and can not defend his position at the braking point).

he wasn't the slowest when (Vettel was) making his pass. The Merc was very quick down the straight


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:18 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Seb couldn't rely on DRS and better tyres to pass Bottas, and so he had to use feints to wrong-foot Bottas. It was good racing and great to watch.

Hamilton's pass on Vettel was nowhere near as impressive as it was pretty much entirely down to DRS and faster tyres.

An unexpectedly enjoyable race that bodes well for the rest of the season :) .

Actually that's exactly what he relied on. Seb had a much larger pace advantage over Bottas when making his pass than Lewis did over Seb when making his.

What? What planet are you on? The reverse is true.

Earth, how about you? Bottas was on the tires he started the race with, while Seb was on fresh softs. In the case of Hamilton's pass, Lewis was on new softs while Vettel was on 1 lap newer mediums. The pace difference between Hamilton and Vettel was in the region of 1.0-1.3 seconds per lap while the pace difference between Bottas and Vettel was closer to 2.5 seconds per lap.

So when you can finally tear yourself away from your spreadsheet and get back to the real world how about looking at the actual footage. Vettel could only ever catch Bottas at the end of the straight, while Lewis could sail past Vettel with plenty of room to spare. Anyone who says the Ferrari was faster there wasn't actually watching


I guess you meant the Mercedes was faster on the straight, which I agree with, but pace wise, the advantage that Seb had over Bottas was much greater than what Lewis had on Seb.
What other people are saying is that it is also difficult to pass a car that is only a few tenths faster even with DRS.
Both passes were impressive in my opinion. Vettel's was more so.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:18 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Seb couldn't rely on DRS and better tyres to pass Bottas, and so he had to use feints to wrong-foot Bottas. It was good racing and great to watch.

Hamilton's pass on Vettel was nowhere near as impressive as it was pretty much entirely down to DRS and faster tyres.

An unexpectedly enjoyable race that bodes well for the rest of the season :) .

Actually that's exactly what he relied on. Seb had a much larger pace advantage over Bottas when making his pass than Lewis did over Seb when making his.

What? What planet are you on? The reverse is true.


Vettel was 3 seconds a lap quicker than Bottas when he overtook him. Bottas' tyres had gone. The lap Vettel overtook him he was 4 seconds ahead by the end of it. Bottas' next lap, his next lap, his in lap was also 2 seconds slower than Hamiltons was earlier on. He was very slow at this point. And that in lap in comparing him against Hamilton on 21 lap old softs, Vettel had new softs. The speed difference was huge.

The lap Hamilton overtook Vettel, Vettel had just set his fastest lap of the race... which was 0.1 slower than the actual fastest lap of the race and I believe the second fastest lap of the entire race. Sure Hamilton had a tyre advantage but Vettel was flying at the time Lewis overtook. Looking through all the data of others drivers, the soft seemed to be worth about 0.7-1.0 per lap.

It doesn't matter how fast they were on the twisty bits, as it's virtually impossible to overtake there. What matters is how fast they were going down the straight and anyone with eyes would have seen that it was a lot harder for Vettel to catch and pass Bottas there than it was for Hamilton to pass Vettel. The Merc was a beast down the straight


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:19 pm 
Hamilton caught Vettel at the end of the straight... Breezed past? I admit it wasn't a difficult pass due to the tyre differences, but neither was the Vettel on Bottas one for the same reason.

The braking zone begins right at the start of this video. Most of Hamiltons advantage was on the brakes, at this point Vettels front wheels are level with Hamiltons rears. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKWEYO4hXvg Hamilton just braked much later just like Vettel did to Bottas. If you look at the later part of the video you can see when the DRS closes and Hamilton begins braking Vettels front wheels are in line with his side pod and it was superior braking and line that made the pass easy. If Vettel had gone around the outside he would have also "breezed past" with better braking on 20 odd lap fresher tyres and superior line into the corner.


Last edited by lamo on Mon May 15, 2017 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:22 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Actually that's exactly what he relied on. Seb had a much larger pace advantage over Bottas when making his pass than Lewis did over Seb when making his.

What? What planet are you on? The reverse is true.

Earth, how about you? Bottas was on the tires he started the race with, while Seb was on fresh softs. In the case of Hamilton's pass, Lewis was on new softs while Vettel was on 1 lap newer mediums. The pace difference between Hamilton and Vettel was in the region of 1.0-1.3 seconds per lap while the pace difference between Bottas and Vettel was closer to 2.5 seconds per lap.

So when you can finally tear yourself away from your spreadsheet and get back to the real world how about looking at the actual footage. Vettel could only ever catch Bottas at the end of the straight, while Lewis could sail past Vettel with plenty of room to spare. Anyone who says the Ferrari was faster there wasn't actually watching


I guess you meant the Mercedes was faster on the straight, which I agree with, but pace wise, the advantage that Seb had over Bottas was much greater than what Lewis had on Seb.
What other people are saying is that it is also difficult to pass a car that is only a few tenths faster even with DRS.
Both passes were impressive in my opinion. Vettel's was more so.

Actually, if you look at the previous posts people are trying to make out that Lewis had a harder time than Seb, but that's not true. As pointed out, it's all but impossible to pass on the twisty bits so and pace advantage there is negated. The only real opportunity was the straight and there the advantage was all Mercedes


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:23 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Seb couldn't rely on DRS and better tyres to pass Bottas, and so he had to use feints to wrong-foot Bottas. It was good racing and great to watch.

Hamilton's pass on Vettel was nowhere near as impressive as it was pretty much entirely down to DRS and faster tyres.

An unexpectedly enjoyable race that bodes well for the rest of the season :) .

Actually that's exactly what he relied on. Seb had a much larger pace advantage over Bottas when making his pass than Lewis did over Seb when making his.

What? What planet are you on? The reverse is true.

Earth, how about you? Bottas was on the tires he started the race with, while Seb was on fresh softs. In the case of Hamilton's pass, Lewis was on new softs while Vettel was on 1 lap newer mediums. The pace difference between Hamilton and Vettel was in the region of 1.0-1.3 seconds per lap while the pace difference between Bottas and Vettel was closer to 2.5 seconds per lap.

So when you can finally tear yourself away from your spreadsheet and get back to the real world how about looking at the actual footage. Vettel could only ever catch Bottas at the end of the straight, while Lewis could sail past Vettel with plenty of room to spare. Anyone who says the Ferrari was faster there wasn't actually watching

Spreadsheet? I really don't know what you're talking about. :? Take a look at the trap speeds and you'll see Ferrari were faster down the straight this weekend than Mercedes. Vettel actually was swerving around in indecision and nearly lost the car but was still able to make the pass stick. He then managed to gap Bottas by 4 seconds by the end of the lap. What exactly is the basis for your argument here?


Last edited by sandman1347 on Mon May 15, 2017 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:24 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Hamilton caught Vettel at the end of the straight... Breezed past? I admit it wasn't a difficult pass due to the tyre differences, but neither was the Vettel on Bottas one for the same reason.

The braking zone begins right at the start of this video. Most of Hamiltons advantage was on the brakes, at this point Vettels front wheels are level with Hamiltons rears. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKWEYO4hXvg Hamilton just braked much later just like Vettel did to Bottas. If you look at the later part of the video you can see when the DRS closes and Hamilton begins braking Vettels front wheels are in line with his side pod and it was superior braking and line that made the pass easy. If Vettel had gone around the outside he would have also "breezed past" with better braking on 20 odd lap fresher tyres and superior line into the corner.

I don't know what to say, really. This insistence that Hamilton always has a harder time is wearing. He breezed past. He had a much bigger speed advantage over Vettel than the latter did with Bottas.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:30 pm 
Zoue wrote:
lamo wrote:
Hamilton caught Vettel at the end of the straight... Breezed past? I admit it wasn't a difficult pass due to the tyre differences, but neither was the Vettel on Bottas one for the same reason.

The braking zone begins right at the start of this video. Most of Hamiltons advantage was on the brakes, at this point Vettels front wheels are level with Hamiltons rears. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKWEYO4hXvg Hamilton just braked much later just like Vettel did to Bottas. If you look at the later part of the video you can see when the DRS closes and Hamilton begins braking Vettels front wheels are in line with his side pod and it was superior braking and line that made the pass easy. If Vettel had gone around the outside he would have also "breezed past" with better braking on 20 odd lap fresher tyres and superior line into the corner.

I don't know what to say, really. This insistence that Hamilton always has a harder time is wearing. He breezed past. He had a much bigger speed advantage over Vettel than the latter did with Bottas.


I haven't once said Hamilton had a harder time just disputing the opposite that you are saying. Both were easy passes on slower cars. Both note noteworthy at all. Both were basically in the same place at the 150 yard marker board as they approached the braking zone but Vettel lost speed moving around and going on the grass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i3kc4Fz9nQ

The ultimate pace is of course important because that is what allows you to get into position to overtake on the straight. Part of the reason Hamilton move was done slightly earlier was because he was closer to the car he was overtaking when exiting the last corner which is impressive as he didn't huge such a big advantage over the car he was overtaking during that part of the lap. I was also suprised Vettel couldn't get closer to Bottas through the chicane complex given he was running at a pace 3 seconds slower than Vettel could at that point.


Last edited by lamo on Mon May 15, 2017 2:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:33 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Spreadsheet? I really don't know what you're talking about. :? Take a look at the trap speeds and you'll see Ferrari were faster down the straight in this race than Mercedes.

Where do you get your speed trap times from out of interest? I tried looking them up earlier and found the below from Motorsport.com. It has Mercedes with a higher top speed than Ferrari, but it splits it between several different points so I don't really understand them.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/results/2 ... 444/?st=ST

Quote:
Intermediate 1
Hamilton - 287.6
Vettel - 284.6

Intermidate 2
Hamilton - 275.0
Vettel - 270.4

Finish Line
Hamilton - 292.2
Vettel - 291.8

Speed Trap
Hamilton - 338.4
Vettel - 334.9


I'm assuming they must be different points around the track, with the final one being at T1 since it's the highest speed? It also doesn't say whether they are from the race etc.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Spreadsheet? I really don't know what you're talking about. :? Take a look at the trap speeds and you'll see Ferrari were faster down the straight in this race than Mercedes.

Where do you get your speed trap times from out of interest? I tried looking them up earlier and found the below from Motorsport.com. It has Mercedes with a higher top speed than Ferrari, but it splits it between several different points so I don't really understand them.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/results/2 ... 444/?st=ST

Quote:
Intermediate 1
Hamilton - 287.6
Vettel - 284.6

Intermidate 2
Hamilton - 275.0
Vettel - 270.4

Finish Line
Hamilton - 292.2
Vettel - 291.8

Speed Trap
Hamilton - 338.4
Vettel - 334.9


I'm assuming they must be different points around the track, with the final one being at T1 since it's the highest speed? It also doesn't say whether they are from the race etc.

You're looking at information for Hamilton and Vettel; which is influenced by the fact that Hamilton was on the quicker tire at the end of the race and was getting better exits at that point. The information you should be looking at is from qualifying on Saturday; where the cars were in parc ferme conditions and the Ferrari had the faster top speed.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/05/13/2 ... -analysis/


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:43 pm 
On the side by side digital analysis of there laps Vettel pulls away a lot on the straight against Hamilton during qualifying. The Ferrari seemed quicker in a straight line under DRS conditions, however how did they compare when DRS was not opened (not that that is relevant here) DRS is used in qualifying isn't it. It also depends on how and where the defending driver was using his ERS and overtake buttons etc


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:44 pm 
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Ah ok so those are from the race, it's a shame you can't have access to all the speed trap information for the whole race, see what the recorded speeds were for each lap, rather than just the top ones.

It's something Liberty should think about for us F1 nerds who love to analyse every little detail.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:23 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Hamilton caught Vettel at the end of the straight... Breezed past? I admit it wasn't a difficult pass due to the tyre differences, but neither was the Vettel on Bottas one for the same reason.

The braking zone begins right at the start of this video. Most of Hamiltons advantage was on the brakes, at this point Vettels front wheels are level with Hamiltons rears. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKWEYO4hXvg Hamilton just braked much later just like Vettel did to Bottas. If you look at the later part of the video you can see when the DRS closes and Hamilton begins braking Vettels front wheels are in line with his side pod and it was superior braking and line that made the pass easy. If Vettel had gone around the outside he would have also "breezed past" with better braking on 20 odd lap fresher tyres and superior line into the corner.


This is not comparable. Lewis caught Vettel earlier on the straight so he could simply stay on the outside and clear the Ferrari. Vettel would have been wheel-to-wheel with Bottas in the corner. He simply had to get on the inside to make a pass and the double-take move he made showed very quick thinking. There is no question about this one.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Prema wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Prema wrote:
Warheart01 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Without looking at the analysis, I'd say it looked like mostly a racing incident that doesn't really need to be analyzed that deeply...


This. :thumbup:
Not everything has to be done to death.


Actually, if you looked that video, it showed 3 views from each cars' respective cameras, and it was apparent that 1. Bottas had no place to go, 2. Kimi hit Bottas, 3. Max left enough space to Kimi.

Nothing "to death" was there, don't be so over dramatic. It was one single post with one single link that I found interesting to to watch, and I posted it for those who minded. But I guess, my fault that there appeared "Kimi" and "fault" next to each other, hence this knee reaction.
Give it a break now.

You misunderstand me, I wasn't shooting the messenger, just pointing out that in my opinion any detailed video analysis needn't necessarily be done. Thanks for sharing it.


Well, the guy who took the effort to make that video, and who makes these videos on regular bases ("Driver61"), apparently wasn't informed about that prior to making it. And the messenger apparently did not think that deep and thoroughly before posting the link to it...

Ok I'll be sure to apologize to this Driver61 I've never met or heard of next time I see him for hurting his feelings. If you too are offended by proxy I'm truly sorry.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:28 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
zaar wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Incredible pass by Hamilton!

I don't get you Hamilton fans. What was special on this move? That Hamilton did it?


Quit your whining. It was a great pass because the Ferrari is a very fast car and this is a track that is VERY hard to pass.

Jesus christ.


I wanted LH to win, but that wasn't really a "pass". It was just DRS at work, with zero effort from the driver.

You know that Vettel had the same assist when he passed Bottas plus also a tyre advantage but apparently because there was a lot of zig-zagging it was an incredible pass.


What's my comment got anything to do with Vettel, or Bottas or zig-zagging?


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:30 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
It's interesting to see that Lewis and Seb seem to be able to battle on track without developing animosity off of it. This was a good light-hearted moment in the press room.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUttPYFLs1E


Yes, the painful tension from the Rosberg era is lone gone. Thank god for that. It was painful watching the post race sessions with those two.

That's because Vettel knows how to race whilst Rosberg would sometimes just target Hamilton's car.


What a load of bullsh1t. Get over it, Rosberg is the reigning WDC and there is not a damn thing your whinging can do about, nor your attempts to make Rosberg out as the bad guy whenever it didn't go Hamilton's way. Yes, Vettel knows how to race, and like it our not, so did Rosberg. If not, they how in the hell did he beat St.Lewis, or was Lewis even worse than the guy who, unlike Vettel, apparently didn't know how to "race".

You and Sandman so frequently make it sound like the internal problems between the drivers was always Rosberg's fault... it is neither accurate, or fair.

I was not even a Rosberg fan, but the forum treatment of him pretty much made me one.

I'm making comparison between Rosberg and Vettel, I'm much more comfortable with Hamilton racing wheel to wheel with Vettel rather than Rosberg or even Bottas for that matter, also have you noticed no overboard reaction to Vettel hitting Hamilton and forcing him off the track, there's hard racing and there's cars being crashed out of races Rosberg style.

There is defending Rosberg and there is the simple not liking of Hamilton or his fans, bias can work both ways.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:31 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Prema wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Prema wrote:
Warheart01 wrote:
This. :thumbup:
Not everything has to be done to death.


Actually, if you looked that video, it showed 3 views from each cars' respective cameras, and it was apparent that 1. Bottas had no place to go, 2. Kimi hit Bottas, 3. Max left enough space to Kimi.

Nothing "to death" was there, don't be so over dramatic. It was one single post with one single link that I found interesting to to watch, and I posted it for those who minded. But I guess, my fault that there appeared "Kimi" and "fault" next to each other, hence this knee reaction.
Give it a break now.

You misunderstand me, I wasn't shooting the messenger, just pointing out that in my opinion any detailed video analysis needn't necessarily be done. Thanks for sharing it.


Well, the guy who took the effort to make that video, and who makes these videos on regular bases ("Driver61"), apparently wasn't informed about that prior to making it. And the messenger apparently did not think that deep and thoroughly before posting the link to it...

Ok I'll be sure to apologize to this Driver61 I've never met or heard of next time I see him for hurting his feelings. If you too are offended by proxy I'm truly sorry.

BS.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:36 pm 
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LKS1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
zaar wrote:
I don't get you Hamilton fans. What was special on this move? That Hamilton did it?


Quit your whining. It was a great pass because the Ferrari is a very fast car and this is a track that is VERY hard to pass.

Jesus christ.


I wanted LH to win, but that wasn't really a "pass". It was just DRS at work, with zero effort from the driver.

You know that Vettel had the same assist when he passed Bottas plus also a tyre advantage but apparently because there was a lot of zig-zagging it was an incredible pass.

Seb couldn't rely on DRS and better tyres to pass Bottas, and so he had to use feints to wrong-foot Bottas. It was good racing and great to watch.

Hamilton's pass on Vettel was nowhere near as impressive as it was pretty much entirely down to DRS and faster tyres.

An unexpectedly enjoyable race that bodes well for the rest of the season :) .

How did Vettel not have DRS and better tyres, Vettel had just pitted for fresh tyres and had new softs on whilst Bottas soft tyres were over 20 laps old.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:40 pm 
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LKS1 wrote:
For some reason the 'quotes' are messed up when trying to reply to Laz-T800, but I agree - Seb's pass couldn't have happened without newer tyres and DRS.

But you're missing the point that even WITH these advantages he couldn't overtake without using feints.

Was the Ferrari running with more downforce, more downforce creates more drag on the straights.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Prema wrote:
Detailed analyses of the turn 1 incident. Looks like mostly Kimi's fault.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i88Wc6sGNQ

Without looking at the analysis, I'd say it looked like mostly a racing incident that doesn't really need to be analyzed that deeply...

Yes indeed although I would say Verstappen was being a bit ambitious trying to go around the outside of 2 cars into a tightening chicane.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:49 pm 
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babararacucudada wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
It's interesting to see that Lewis and Seb seem to be able to battle on track without developing animosity off of it. This was a good light-hearted moment in the press room.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUttPYFLs1E


Yes, the painful tension from the Rosberg era is lone gone. Thank god for that. It was painful watching the post race sessions with those two.

That's because Vettel knows how to race whilst Rosberg would sometimes just target Hamilton's car.


Can you give an example of when Rosberg just targeted Hamilton's car?

Austria were he simply didn't turn for the corner and ended up damaging his car after contact with Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 3:52 pm 
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nvm


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:05 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
zaar wrote:
I don't get you Hamilton fans. What was special on this move? That Hamilton did it?


Quit your whining. It was a great pass because the Ferrari is a very fast car and this is a track that is VERY hard to pass.

Jesus christ.


I wanted LH to win, but that wasn't really a "pass". It was just DRS at work, with zero effort from the driver.

You know that Vettel had the same assist when he passed Bottas plus also a tyre advantage but apparently because there was a lot of zig-zagging it was an incredible pass.


What's my comment got anything to do with Vettel, or Bottas or zig-zagging?

I guess I didn't see you pulling anyone up for saying that Vettel's pass was incredible.

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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 4:07 pm 
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Vettel o Bottas was a much more difficult pass than Hamilton on Vettel. Dont know how you guys can say otherwise. But to each its own.


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