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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 3:20 pm 
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nixxxon wrote:
mds wrote:
Pole2Win wrote:
paoloandrea123 wrote:
I am fed up with all this nonsense of him not deserving a Formula One ride. Sure enough his father's wealth did fund him throughout his career so far but he has also proven himself to be a talented driver; 2014 he won the Italian F4 championship; 2015 He was Toyota Racing Series champion in New Zealand and i 2016 he won the European F3 Championship, winning over 10 races. He deserves to be where he is in F 1. Give him time.


If you did some research into the circumstances in which he "won" those championships, you'd be as critical of him as everyone else. ;)

What's happening to him is harsher than what happened to Piquet Jr, because Piquet Jr was also spoon fed throughout his career but he has some talent at least, unlike Stroll.


Bullshit. You don't win a racing series, ANY series, without talent. Especially not a few of them.

One thing is to have some talent, and the other is to have F1 talent level.
So far he has shown he definitely does not have the 2nd one


That I can agree with.

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:17 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how much is Stroll paying for the seat at Williams? Has to be alot! He'd want to be paying enough to off-set the loss of prize money as Williams drops down the constructors championship.

I heard between $30M-$35M.




I actually read it was 80 million from multiple sources.



Heres one:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports ... 0-million/

Edit: i stand corrected. 80 mill was what he spent in total including the simulator, williams mechanics etc...


$80 Mill? Holy cow! What does him father do? Own like 200 Dimond mines? He'd have to be the most loving father to spend that much for his son to follow his dreams!

Watching Monaco last night and Stroll's inexperience really showed, not only in f1 and racing in general... tyres and brak brakes go cold during safty car.. Stroll's asking what to do???... I yelled at the TV to start weaving more and braking harder... I don't think he heard me.


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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Glasnost wrote:
kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how much is Stroll paying for the seat at Williams? Has to be alot! He'd want to be paying enough to off-set the loss of prize money as Williams drops down the constructors championship.

I heard between $30M-$35M.




I actually read it was 80 million from multiple sources.



Heres one:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports ... 0-million/

Edit: i stand corrected. 80 mill was what he spent in total including the simulator, williams mechanics etc...


$80 Mill? Holy cow! What does him father do? Own like 200 Dimond mines? He'd have to be the most loving father to spend that much for his son to follow his dreams!

Watching Monaco last night and Stroll's inexperience really showed, not only in f1 and racing in general... tyres and brak brakes go cold during safty car.. Stroll's asking what to do???... I yelled at the TV to start weaving more and braking harder... I don't think he heard me.


His father is a billionaire in the fashion industry from what I understand.

Yeah that was funny in the race. Did he retire because of that? That is just incomprehensible. Every other driver had the same problem surely?

Williams better up the asking price if they are to bring him in next year.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 12:10 am 
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Pretty embarrassing that radio call and clearly illustrates how far out of his depth he really is in F1.


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:08 am 
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rivf1 wrote:
Pretty embarrassing that radio call and clearly illustrates how far out of his depth he really is in F1.


He telling the team "Please help me" really sums it all up.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2017 6:54 pm 
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as long as his dad is footing the spares bill , i'd doubt Williams care


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:14 am 
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Reading further up ^, that Max was personality of the year. 2015. Doesn't that imply you have to have a mentionable personality? He's a nice guy and all, but not a 'personality' of the sport.

ANYWAY.

Onto young Lance. Clearly out of his depth right now, that's not honestly up for debate is it? I remember from my vantage point at the Australian GP (between 14 and 15) just how tentative (read; scared of the car) he looked lap after lap. Massive margins as far as using the width of the track, braking early and carrying nil corner speed. I forgave him, given he'd not put it in the wall for 58 laps at that point. But he really hasn't improved has he? I know he had success in junior formulae leading into Formula 1, but it's so obvious he isn't ready for these cars. I'm sure Felipe is in his ear with advice as often as he can be, but he can only do so much for him. I do fear he has really just been thrown to the wolves here, I can't imagine Williams are even leaning on him for any sort of technical feedback about the car, given he can't drive it consistently or near its potential at the moment.

As for Clair Williams saying his rookie years are similar to RAI, or VET's. What plausible alternate reality is she living within? Kimi (had driven in about 20 car races in his life to that point) was very very good from day 1 (go YouTube his qualifying effort from Aus, he set sector times that impressive that Murray Walker was getting his voice right up to the threshold of pain) and Seb was seriously impressive as the 'test' driver in those Fridays for BMW, and then when he got a crack at racing he clearly had the right stuff.

Where to for 2018? If his father is happy to open the chequebook again to the tune of $80mil, Williams will again take him in a heartbeat. That's a sad indictment on where they're at as a team, as much as anything else.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:08 am 
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It's a bizarre thing for Williams to come out and say. Surely she must realise by saying such laughable things she just makes Stroll even more of a laughing stock?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:22 am 
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JackAttack_19 wrote:
As for Clair Williams saying his rookie years are similar to RAI, or VET's. What plausible alternate reality is she living within? Kimi (had driven in about 20 car races in his life to that point) was very very good from day 1 (go YouTube his qualifying effort from Aus, he set sector times that impressive that Murray Walker was getting his voice right up to the threshold of pain) and Seb was seriously impressive as the 'test' driver in those Fridays for BMW, and then when he got a crack at racing he clearly had the right stuff.

For Kimi it's purely ridiculous, but I can almost see where she's coming from on Seb. He was nicknamed 'the Crash Kid' in his first season, after all.

... the difference being that when he wasn't crashing, he sure as heck wasn't 6/10 on average off his teammate in qualifying and usually a lap down in the race. :uhoh:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 8:35 am 
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Exediron wrote:
JackAttack_19 wrote:
As for Clair Williams saying his rookie years are similar to RAI, or VET's. What plausible alternate reality is she living within? Kimi (had driven in about 20 car races in his life to that point) was very very good from day 1 (go YouTube his qualifying effort from Aus, he set sector times that impressive that Murray Walker was getting his voice right up to the threshold of pain) and Seb was seriously impressive as the 'test' driver in those Fridays for BMW, and then when he got a crack at racing he clearly had the right stuff.

For Kimi it's purely ridiculous, but I can almost see where she's coming from on Seb. He was nicknamed 'the Crash Kid' in his first season, after all.

... the difference being that when he wasn't crashing, he sure as heck wasn't 6/10 on average off his teammate in qualifying and usually a lap down in the race. :uhoh:

:thumbup:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:40 am 
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I'm waiting to see Stroll during a wet weather race!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:02 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
It's a bizarre thing for Williams to come out and say. Surely she must realise by saying such laughable things she just makes Stroll even more of a laughing stock?


It has been YEARS since I've used a forum, so apologies if I look a dinosaur using the 'quote' function.

It honestly just looks embarrassing what Williams has said, and gives me the genuine impression that she doesn't understand just how off the pace Stroll is right now, and how detrimental it will be to her team.

Exediron wrote:
JackAttack_19 wrote:
As for Clair Williams saying his rookie years are similar to RAI, or VET's. What plausible alternate reality is she living within? Kimi (had driven in about 20 car races in his life to that point) was very very good from day 1 (go YouTube his qualifying effort from Aus, he set sector times that impressive that Murray Walker was getting his voice right up to the threshold of pain) and Seb was seriously impressive as the 'test' driver in those Fridays for BMW, and then when he got a crack at racing he clearly had the right stuff.

For Kimi it's purely ridiculous, but I can almost see where she's coming from on Seb. He was nicknamed 'the Crash Kid' in his first season, after all.

... the difference being that when he wasn't crashing, he sure as heck wasn't 6/10 on average off his teammate in qualifying and usually a lap down in the race. :uhoh:


Kimi always looked the goods didn't he, and 'Quick Nick' was the Heinz-Harald Frentzen of his generation/Nico Hulkenberg of the current one. As for Seb, he was the crash kid but gee he was a quick one. Once he ironed that out, he then proceeded to iron Mark Webber out (at Turkey 2009, and then within the Red Bull organisation - I'm Australian, for what it's worth Korea 2010 STILL hurts) - but the key difference is that he clearly looked like he belonged in Formula 1 from the start, Stroll hasn't shown anything yet to suggest he should be in Formula 1. I know he won the Euro F3 series, and the honour roll reads like the current "who's who" of Formula 1, I do wonder though if the current spec F1 car is simply too far removed from THAT level of racing for it to be a direct stepping stone now. It was always a case by case scenario before the cars become 3-4 seconds a lap faster....


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:07 am 
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Wow, three pages on Stroll. He moved up to quick. They saw how well Vestepp, did and maybe thought.....Lance you are know Max!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:41 am 
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JackAttack_19 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
It's a bizarre thing for Williams to come out and say. Surely she must realise by saying such laughable things she just makes Stroll even more of a laughing stock?


It has been YEARS since I've used a forum, so apologies if I look a dinosaur using the 'quote' function.

It honestly just looks embarrassing what Williams has said, and gives me the genuine impression that she doesn't understand just how off the pace Stroll is right now, and how detrimental it will be to her team.

Exediron wrote:
JackAttack_19 wrote:
As for Clair Williams saying his rookie years are similar to RAI, or VET's. What plausible alternate reality is she living within? Kimi (had driven in about 20 car races in his life to that point) was very very good from day 1 (go YouTube his qualifying effort from Aus, he set sector times that impressive that Murray Walker was getting his voice right up to the threshold of pain) and Seb was seriously impressive as the 'test' driver in those Fridays for BMW, and then when he got a crack at racing he clearly had the right stuff.

For Kimi it's purely ridiculous, but I can almost see where she's coming from on Seb. He was nicknamed 'the Crash Kid' in his first season, after all.

... the difference being that when he wasn't crashing, he sure as heck wasn't 6/10 on average off his teammate in qualifying and usually a lap down in the race. :uhoh:


Kimi always looked the goods didn't he, and 'Quick Nick' was the Heinz-Harald Frentzen of his generation/Nico Hulkenberg of the current one. As for Seb, he was the crash kid but gee he was a quick one. Once he ironed that out, he then proceeded to iron Mark Webber out (at Turkey 2009, and then within the Red Bull organisation - I'm Australian, for what it's worth Korea 2010 STILL hurts) - but the key difference is that he clearly looked like he belonged in Formula 1 from the start, Stroll hasn't shown anything yet to suggest he should be in Formula 1. I know he won the Euro F3 series, and the honour roll reads like the current "who's who" of Formula 1, I do wonder though if the current spec F1 car is simply too far removed from THAT level of racing for it to be a direct stepping stone now. It was always a case by case scenario before the cars become 3-4 seconds a lap faster....

Don't get mixed up with the F3 Euroseries which was the second rung down from F1 when the likes of Hamilton, Hulkenberg and Grosjean won it, this got disbanded for what is now GP3, the present F3 re-emerged later and is 3 rungs down from F1.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:43 am 
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sherm300m wrote:
Wow, three pages on Stroll. He moved up to quick. They saw how well Vestepp, did and maybe thought.....Lance you are know Max!

Then they failed to realise that Stroll in part bought his success whereas Verstappen achieved what he did on pure talent.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:19 pm 
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I'm still unsure on Stroll..

I'm trying to not label him as "pay driver", but I'm yet to see a spark from him that might lead to improvements.

His radio comms during Monaco didn't help his cause.

He seems like a pleasant guy, and he deserves a chance, but might he just be a Palmer with a bigger wallet?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:14 am 
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I think he's a pay driver no doubt, but a pay driver with credentials. He just needs time. It's just that his time would be better spent in another feeder series. I was willing to see what he had to offer this year but unfortunately he has Grosjean 2009 written all over him

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:37 pm 
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Yet another abysmal qualifying performance from stroll, somehow taking the 4th fastest car out there and making it seem a real battle to beat sauber. I feel sorry for any patriotic canadain fans paying money to watch him race.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:41 am 
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rivf1 wrote:
Yet another abysmal qualifying performance from stroll, somehow taking the 4th fastest car out there and making it seem a real battle to beat sauber. I feel sorry for any patriotic canadain fans paying money to watch him race.

The worst part is I suspect it's actually the 3rd fastest car at many tracks. Massa isn't as quick as either Red Bull driver.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:02 am 
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Exediron wrote:
rivf1 wrote:
Yet another abysmal qualifying performance from stroll, somehow taking the 4th fastest car out there and making it seem a real battle to beat sauber. I feel sorry for any patriotic canadain fans paying money to watch him race.

The worst part is I suspect it's actually the 3rd fastest car at many tracks. Massa isn't as quick as either Red Bull driver.


This is where it will sting them the most when it comes to WCC.

Massa & Stroll have a big gap between themselves, so has Renault. Force India may have the 5th best car but when it comes to overall pairing, they surely have the 4th best.

Ocon has quite closed the gap to Perez (especially at Canada where he never has raced earlier). Their Q3 qualy times prove how consistent they are as team-mates & also how well Ocon is closing towards Perez:
Perez - 1:13:018
Ocon - 1:13:135

As long as they both remain fast & consistent, they have 4th covered in the WCC. Other midfield teams, don't have this luxury.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:52 am 
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Exediron wrote:
rivf1 wrote:
Yet another abysmal qualifying performance from stroll, somehow taking the 4th fastest car out there and making it seem a real battle to beat sauber. I feel sorry for any patriotic canadain fans paying money to watch him race.

The worst part is I suspect it's actually the 3rd fastest car at many tracks. Massa isn't as quick as either Red Bull driver.


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:57 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Exediron wrote:
rivf1 wrote:
Yet another abysmal qualifying performance from stroll, somehow taking the 4th fastest car out there and making it seem a real battle to beat sauber. I feel sorry for any patriotic canadain fans paying money to watch him race.

The worst part is I suspect it's actually the 3rd fastest car at many tracks. Massa isn't as quick as either Red Bull driver.


This is where it will sting them the most when it comes to WCC.

Massa & Stroll have a big gap between themselves, so has Renault. Force India may have the 5th best car but when it comes to overall pairing, they surely have the 4th best.

Ocon has quite closed the gap to Perez (especially at Canada where he never has raced earlier). Their Q3 qualy times prove how consistent they are as team-mates & also how well Ocon is closing towards Perez:
Perez - 1:13:018
Ocon - 1:13:135

As long as they both remain fast & consistent, they have 4th covered in the WCC. Other midfield teams, don't have this luxury.


Yeah totally agree,force india should easily wrap up 4th again this season. It doesn't really matter if they fall behind williams or even renault on the development front, they have two pretty capable drivers unlike williams and renault who are pretty much only have one driver capable of scoring consistent points.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:09 am 
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Exediron wrote:
rivf1 wrote:
Yet another abysmal qualifying performance from stroll, somehow taking the 4th fastest car out there and making it seem a real battle to beat sauber. I feel sorry for any patriotic canadain fans paying money to watch him race.

The worst part is I suspect it's actually the 3rd fastest car at many tracks. Massa isn't as quick as either Red Bull driver.



Agree, and BEST scenario is 5th this year. FI have them covered through sheer consistency if not outright car speed.

Is it genuinely worth the 80mil? Have to wonder, if they'd been able to land SAI or WER instead, they'd give 4th a real shake, prizemoney uplift from the extra points. Car development would be smoother/quicker/better with two sides of the garage giving genuine feedback, the list goes on.

How good is hindsight.

(Obviously I know landing either of those drives is a bit harder than me just writing about it)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Was Stroll - like Magnussen and others - on a quick lap when Wehrlein's mistake effectively ended qualifying (q1) early?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:04 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Was Stroll - like Magnussen and others - on a quick lap when Wehrlein's mistake effectively ended qualifying (q1) early?

In the Williams, Stroll shouldn't be needing last gasp laps to get out of Q1.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:55 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Was Stroll - like Magnussen and others - on a quick lap when Wehrlein's mistake effectively ended qualifying (q1) early?

In the Williams, Stroll shouldn't be needing last gasp laps to get out of Q1.


True. But still ...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:45 am 
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It was actually quite nice to see Stroll get his first points at his home race, they featured his onboard quite a lot and it was noticeable how careful he was around other cars, he might be struggling somewhat but he's certainly not dangerous which was always my main concern about him.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:01 am 
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pokerman wrote:
It was actually quite nice to see Stroll get his first points at his home race, they featured his onboard quite a lot and it was noticeable how careful he was around other cars, he might be struggling somewhat but he's certainly not dangerous which was always my main concern about him.


From his perspective it was the right thing to do. He didn't want to be near any other car.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:47 am 
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Lance has 2 more F1 points than anyone complaining about him here.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:26 am 
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mmi16 wrote:
Lance has 2 more F1 points than anyone complaining about him here.


I was going to reply something here about logical fallacies but decided I'm not yet ready to be that insufferable on the internet.

Not sure this was any better though.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:13 am 
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Good for Stroll to get his first points. To put it in perspective though I think Massa (Not exactly tier 1 himself) would have been fighting for the podium.

I think Williams quite possibly have the third fastest car and are 6th in the WCC. Stroll may be bringing them 80 Million USD but that won't be a net 80 USD.

FI are showing, yet again, how useful it is to have two quality drivers.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:25 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Good for Stroll to get his first points. To put it in perspective though I think Massa (Not exactly tier 1 himself) would have been fighting for the podium.

I think Williams quite possibly have the third fastest car and are 6th in the WCC. Stroll may be bringing them 80 Million USD but that won't be a net 80 USD.

FI are showing, yet again, how useful it is to have two quality drivers.


Even though Massa may not be as good as he used to be, I think he could well have been on the podium this race. Williams managed to do a strategy last year that jumped the Red Bulls with Bottas. Massa looked faster than the Force India's in qualifying and qualifying is usually Massa's weak point. So in the race, I'm certain he'll have been ahead of them. And considering how close they were to Ricciardo, it makes me almost certain that Massa will have managed 3rd. Decent race for Stroll. Very good for him compared to his other races. He just needs to focus and keep improving. It is just a shame the amount of bad luck both Williams drivers have had this year. Stroll has had 4 retirements. 3 of which were not his fault at all. And Massa had just been involved in too many incidents as well as running into problems. Slow puncture in Russia, had to avoid first corner collision in Spain and suffered damage. Then got knocked into by Stoffel. Then yet another contact here resulting in a retirement. I do really think he'd be level or above Perez in the drivers championship if it wasn't for all his luck. I'd say he's missed out on at leased 25 points. I don't know if Stroll has missed out on as many races where he would have scored points but he too has certainly been unlucky.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:13 pm 
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mmi16 wrote:
Lance has 2 more F1 points than anyone complaining about him here.


By that retarded logic, I am just as good a driver as Alonso this season since I have as many points as him.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:15 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
mmi16 wrote:
Lance has 2 more F1 points than anyone complaining about him here.


By that retarded logic, I am just as good a driver as Alonso this season since I have as many points as him.


You haven't exploded the same number of Honda's that Fernando has.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:44 pm 
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mmi16 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
mmi16 wrote:
Lance has 2 more F1 points than anyone complaining about him here.


By that retarded logic, I am just as good a driver as Alonso this season since I have as many points as him.


You haven't exploded the same number of Honda's that Fernando has.

You're funny. :smug:

The Williams was probably a car to fight with the force indias and even with the Red Bulls in that race, yet Stroll managed to qualify 17th, vastly outpaced by Massa. Who knows what Massa would've done in the race but I bet he'd be up there with the Force Indias at least.
Remember that Massa is a driver that supposed to retire last year... not a good benchmark.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:30 pm 
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Very happy for him, he took perhaps a bit more beating than deserved. Williams is a car that is between 4th fastest and 8th fastest, heavily depending on the track.

Hat down and standing ovation for Hamilton who gave him thumb up while laping him for his good performance. Very nice touch!

Source: http://www.planetf1.com/news/hamilton-e ... -thumb-up/

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:30 pm 
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Well, he kept out of trouble and scored a couple of points, and even put in a few good overtaking moves. But he was still well off the pace at a circuit that was supposed to suit the Williams well and gained a number of positions through others dropping out. Must do better.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:23 pm 
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I'm willing to go out on a limb here and say that I think Williams would be the third team if they had the driver lineup of Red Bull.

Massa is a decent driver, but that's it. Stroll has been abysmal so far.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:36 am 
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OH, BOO HOO. While you guys are crying on your keyboards stroll has a Formula one drive and is living a life of luxury. Get over yourselves life has never been fair. You'd think he was the only paid driver in F1.

The kids got talent but needs seat time. New, much faster formula, 18 years old and who knows if he is meshing with the most important guy every race driver needs, his engineer. There is a lot more to racing than just jumping into the car and jumping on the throttle.

So all you critics look around at vandoorne and palmer. two guys who have more experience and justify how great they are doing. For stroll, he'll continue to ignore you posters and enjoy having a F1 drive at least the next two years.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:57 am 
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spiritone wrote:
So all you critics look around at vandoorne and palmer. two guys who have more experience and justify how great they are doing. For stroll, he'll continue to ignore you posters and enjoy having a F1 drive at least the next two years.

I assume you are aware that pretty much nobody is justifying how well either Palmer or Vandoorne are doing, and that in fact:

a) the majority of F1 fans think Palmer needs to go.
b) many fans are disappointed with Vandoorne so far, and think he needs to start looking better soon.

People aren't getting on Stroll because he's Canadian. People are getting on Stroll because he is obviously not ready for F1. He skipped GP2/F2, and that's something you shouldn't get to do if you're not ready for F1. Verstappen and Ocon also skipped GP2, but they've proved themselves by being as fast or faster than their teammates. Stroll is nowhere close to his teammate, a man who, prior to Stroll, had not beaten a teammate in almost 10 years. His performance isn't just typical of a rookie. It's bad.

Bottom line, Stroll wasn't ready for F1, and he shouldn't be there. I'm not discounting the possibility of him becoming ready at a later date, but the place to become ready for F1 isn't F1.

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