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 Post subject: Fernando300
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Can't believe it's been so long. What a legend.

He has to get on the podium soon, so he can see just how much respect there is for him. That will definitely keep him in F1.


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:22 pm 
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I think it's too late to keep him, I'm pretty convinced he's going to IndyCar for at least a year but probably until 2021. Zak and Renault seem to be downplaying their chances of being competitive before then so there's only negatives to hanging around now, it costs him stat wise every race, it costs him shots at the 500, if he's flawless it's usually only for 7th and there's nothing more he can show in a sub par car he hasn't shown dozens of times before.

Getting beat would only hurt his legacy so there's no real point taking on another young superstar in the making with Lando who'd be highly motivated to beat him so you may as well go and try and win races,the 500 and titles in another discipline that he clearly enjoyed.

He'd only be Kimi's age in 2021 so it's still possible to come back for Liberty's F1 vision of multiple competitive teams so he can see how that shakes out.

Sucks we'd be losing one of the best drivers while still in or near his pomp but I don't see the point in more midfield battles, he's spent 7 or 8 seasons in midfield cars which is a crazy amount for a top driver.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:54 pm 
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McLaren and Zak Brown respect Alonso. Brown has stated that Alonso is too valuable to lose. But Alonso knows full well that the car is over 80% responsible for any race or championship outcome.

Immediately after this weekend's race in Montreal he will fly to France in his preparation for LeMans. This race will play a major influence on which direction he will go. IMO Alonso will realize that there is fun and winning outside of Formula One, and head off to enjoy the racing.

Lando Norris is on McLaren's very-short list of prospective drivers, but he isn't ready yet. He still requires more seasoning.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:57 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
I think it's too late to keep him, I'm pretty convinced he's going to IndyCar for at least a year but probably until 2021. Zak and Renault seem to be downplaying their chances of being competitive before then so there's only negatives to hanging around now, it costs him stat wise every race, it costs him shots at the 500, if he's flawless it's usually only for 7th and there's nothing more he can show in a sub par car he hasn't shown dozens of times before.

Getting beat would only hurt his legacy so there's no real point taking on another young superstar in the making with Lando who'd be highly motivated to beat him so you may as well go and try and win races,the 500 and titles in another discipline that he clearly enjoyed.

He'd only be Kimi's age in 2021 so it's still possible to come back for Liberty's F1 vision of multiple competitive teams so he can see how that shakes out.

Sucks we'd be losing one of the best drivers while still in or near his pomp but I don't see the point in more midfield battles, he's spent 7 or 8 seasons in midfield cars which is a crazy amount for a top driver.

He´s less than 2 years younger than Kimi so he´d be a year older.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:26 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
I think it's too late to keep him, I'm pretty convinced he's going to IndyCar for at least a year but probably until 2021. Zak and Renault seem to be downplaying their chances of being competitive before then so there's only negatives to hanging around now, it costs him stat wise every race, it costs him shots at the 500, if he's flawless it's usually only for 7th and there's nothing more he can show in a sub par car he hasn't shown dozens of times before.

Getting beat would only hurt his legacy so there's no real point taking on another young superstar in the making with Lando who'd be highly motivated to beat him so you may as well go and try and win races,the 500 and titles in another discipline that he clearly enjoyed.

He'd only be Kimi's age in 2021 so it's still possible to come back for Liberty's F1 vision of multiple competitive teams so he can see how that shakes out.

Sucks we'd be losing one of the best drivers while still in or near his pomp but I don't see the point in more midfield battles, he's spent 7 or 8 seasons in midfield cars which is a crazy amount for a top driver.

He´s less than 2 years younger than Kimi so he´d be a year older.


Sorry yeah Kīmi's 38 turning 39 during this season and he'd be 39 turning 40 during the season you're right.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:23 am 
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If he wins Le Mans, I would all but guarantee he will leave F1 at the end of the season, and take up a multi year IndyCar deal.

He’s becoming Motor Racing’s Mad Titan. Travelling the universe collecting his Infinity Cups. Once he gets the IndyCup, the BathurstCup and the DaytonaCup, he will be unbeatable.


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:32 am 
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bradtheboywonder wrote:
If he wins Le Mans


Well, he pretty much has 33% chance. Either he wins, or he has technical troubles, or the other Toyota wins it.
As a driver he'd have to love those odds - but at the same time accept that if he wins it, it'll be seen as a questionable accomplishment given the lack of competition in LMP1-H.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:46 am 
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mds wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
If he wins Le Mans


Well, he pretty much has 33% chance. Either he wins, or he has technical troubles, or the other Toyota wins it.
As a driver he'd have to love those odds - but at the same time accept that if he wins it, it'll be seen as a questionable accomplishment given the lack of competition in LMP1-H.

Would still be a title, though. Would fall into a broadly similar category to Hamilton's 2014 and 2015 F1 titles and he's still seen as a x4 WDC.


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:57 am 
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Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
If he wins Le Mans


Well, he pretty much has 33% chance. Either he wins, or he has technical troubles, or the other Toyota wins it.
As a driver he'd have to love those odds - but at the same time accept that if he wins it, it'll be seen as a questionable accomplishment given the lack of competition in LMP1-H.

Would still be a title, though. Would fall into a broadly similar category to Hamilton's 2014 and 2015 F1 titles and he's still seen as a x4 WDC.


Not sure about the comparison with Hamilton, the very nature of F1 is having teams that compete to make the best car and dominance is part of that. If Toyota, Porsche, Audi (and maybe others) would compete together in the WEC and Toyota manage to make a highly dominant car and they'd win, then it would have a more impressive ring to it.

But of course, it would still be a win, and an achievement, and it will go down in history that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:39 am 
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mds wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
If he wins Le Mans


Well, he pretty much has 33% chance. Either he wins, or he has technical troubles, or the other Toyota wins it.
As a driver he'd have to love those odds - but at the same time accept that if he wins it, it'll be seen as a questionable accomplishment given the lack of competition in LMP1-H.

Would still be a title, though. Would fall into a broadly similar category to Hamilton's 2014 and 2015 F1 titles and he's still seen as a x4 WDC.


Not sure about the comparison with Hamilton, the very nature of F1 is having teams that compete to make the best car and dominance is part of that. If Toyota, Porsche, Audi (and maybe others) would compete together in the WEC and Toyota manage to make a highly dominant car and they'd win, then it would have a more impressive ring to it.

But of course, it would still be a win, and an achievement, and it will go down in history that way.

I see what you're saying, yeah. I was looking at it from the point of view of winning against no opposition, rather than the deeper merits of F1 and the WEC (and it's just an observation of how it might be perceived, not a judgment), but I get where you're coming from


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:40 am 
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Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
If he wins Le Mans


Well, he pretty much has 33% chance. Either he wins, or he has technical troubles, or the other Toyota wins it.
As a driver he'd have to love those odds - but at the same time accept that if he wins it, it'll be seen as a questionable accomplishment given the lack of competition in LMP1-H.

Would still be a title, though. Would fall into a broadly similar category to Hamilton's 2014 and 2015 F1 titles and he's still seen as a x4 WDC.


Not sure about the comparison with Hamilton, the very nature of F1 is having teams that compete to make the best car and dominance is part of that. If Toyota, Porsche, Audi (and maybe others) would compete together in the WEC and Toyota manage to make a highly dominant car and they'd win, then it would have a more impressive ring to it.

But of course, it would still be a win, and an achievement, and it will go down in history that way.

I see what you're saying, yeah. I was looking at it from the point of view of winning against no opposition, rather than the deeper merits of F1 and the WEC (and it's just an observation of how it might be perceived, not a judgment), but I get where you're coming from


:thumbup:
Understand your side as well. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:43 am 
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mds wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mds wrote:
Well, he pretty much has 33% chance. Either he wins, or he has technical troubles, or the other Toyota wins it.
As a driver he'd have to love those odds - but at the same time accept that if he wins it, it'll be seen as a questionable accomplishment given the lack of competition in LMP1-H.

Would still be a title, though. Would fall into a broadly similar category to Hamilton's 2014 and 2015 F1 titles and he's still seen as a x4 WDC.


Not sure about the comparison with Hamilton, the very nature of F1 is having teams that compete to make the best car and dominance is part of that. If Toyota, Porsche, Audi (and maybe others) would compete together in the WEC and Toyota manage to make a highly dominant car and they'd win, then it would have a more impressive ring to it.

But of course, it would still be a win, and an achievement, and it will go down in history that way.

I see what you're saying, yeah. I was looking at it from the point of view of winning against no opposition, rather than the deeper merits of F1 and the WEC (and it's just an observation of how it might be perceived, not a judgment), but I get where you're coming from


:thumbup:
Understand your side as well. :)

:)


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:58 pm 
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mds wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
If he wins Le Mans


Well, he pretty much has 33% chance. Either he wins, or he has technical troubles, or the other Toyota wins it.
As a driver he'd have to love those odds - but at the same time accept that if he wins it, it'll be seen as a questionable accomplishment given the lack of competition in LMP1-H.


Formula One drivers have no problem collecting trophies and championships that have little competition. Winning is winning.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:20 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
mds wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
If he wins Le Mans


Well, he pretty much has 33% chance. Either he wins, or he has technical troubles, or the other Toyota wins it.
As a driver he'd have to love those odds - but at the same time accept that if he wins it, it'll be seen as a questionable accomplishment given the lack of competition in LMP1-H.


Formula One drivers have no problem collecting trophies and championships that have little competition. Winning is winning.


Yup!

I hope Nando pulls it off. I'd love to see him give INDY cars a couple years and get a 500 too. If he could give NASCAR or Super V8s a go too, I'd be all over that as well.

I have nothing but the highest respect for those drivers with the courage, and the skills, to compete successfully in multiple racing disciplines. That is why I think higher of drivers like Mario, AJ, Jimmy Clark, Stirling Moss, Dan Gurney, Mark Donohue, JPM, et al than I do those who embrace one racing discipline for all of the majority of their careers.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:06 pm 
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I think he will not only chase the 'triple crown', but try to add a notch to it.

So, (sensible) opinions of what other crown would he chase?

Pikes Peak? Bathhurst? Dakar?


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:32 pm 
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moby wrote:
I think he will not only chase the 'triple crown', but try to add a notch to it.

So, (sensible) opinions of what other crown would he chase?

Pikes Peak? Bathhurst? Dakar?

what are you seeing as the triple crown, moby? Monaco GP... Indy 500. ...LeMans?

The Daytona 500 has been considered by some.

A Pikes Peak unlimited or Attack class win would be quite notable, Bathurst as well. Any WRC race or one of the major off-road races (Dakar, Baja, or such)... Or to push extremes. World of Outlaws at Knoxville!

Obviously there are many ways a driver could prove his skills, beyond the safety of his chosen discipline.

;)

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:13 pm 
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Blake wrote:
moby wrote:
I think he will not only chase the 'triple crown', but try to add a notch to it.

So, (sensible) opinions of what other crown would he chase?

Pikes Peak? Bathhurst? Dakar?

what are you seeing as the triple crown, moby? Monaco GP... Indy 500. ...LeMans?

The Daytona 500 has been considered by some.

A Pikes Peak unlimited or Attack class win would be quite notable, Bathurst as well. Any WRC race or one of the major off-road races (Dakar, Baja, or such)... Or to push extremes. World of Outlaws at Knoxville!

Obviously there are many ways a driver could prove his skills, beyond the safety of his chosen discipline.

;)


He could fancy a Branson style Atlantic record.

Is Daytona a 'saloon' car style race or open wheelers?
Can not see him going saloon style, maybe a sport event or a record that will stand for a long time because it would be difficult to repeat.


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:42 am 
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So, today, Alonso tells Nate Saunders, "(he) rates himself as one of the best drivers to have ever graced the Formula One grid."

Well, he gets a 10.5 rating for selfishness, and an 11 for arrogance, in my book. His inflated opinion of himself is bested only by the current American President. Alonso's career died almost 10 years ago. Pity he'll be the last person on the planet to realize it.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:00 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
So, today, Alonso tells Nate Saunders, "(he) rates himself as one of the best drivers to have ever graced the Formula One grid."

Well, he gets a 10.5 rating for selfishness, and an 11 for arrogance, in my book. His inflated opinion of himself is bested only by the current American President. Alonso's career died almost 10 years ago. Pity he'll be the last person on the planet to realize it.

Though I find it amusing he also says he's not the best in qualifying or the race!


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:30 pm 
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I really like Alonso, but unfortunatly he's been badly managed. He's been offered drives at Red Bull which he turned down. Had luck played his part and kept quiet, he would be in the right team now.

Sadly, there's no where to go after 2018 in F1, except Indy.

Congratulations to Alonso for reaching 300 grand prix's, at least he will leave F1 well respected as a driver. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:46 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
So, today, Alonso tells Nate Saunders, "(he) rates himself as one of the best drivers to have ever graced the Formula One grid."

Well, he gets a 10.5 rating for selfishness, and an 11 for arrogance, in my book. His inflated opinion of himself is bested only by the current American President. Alonso's career died almost 10 years ago. Pity he'll be the last person on the planet to realize it.


was waiting for a post like this! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:47 pm 
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moby wrote:
I think he will not only chase the 'triple crown', but try to add a notch to it.

So, (sensible) opinions of what other crown would he chase?

Pikes Peak? Bathhurst? Dakar?


I mentioned before he’ll go after the Infinity Cups. Once he wins Le Mans, Indy and Bathurst, there’ll be a union of Earths mightiest racers uniting to stop the Mad Titan from taking Daytona. I reckon Racing’s Avengers would comprise of;

Captain America: Jeff Gordon
Iron Man: Jamie Whincup
Thor: Kimi Raikkonen
Hulk: Nico Hulkenberg
Hawkeye: Daniel Ricciardo
Black Widow: Danica Patrick
Dr Strange: Sebastian Vettel
Ant Man: Christiano Da Matta
Spider-Man: Max Vetstappen
Winter Soldier: Juan Pablo Montoya
War Machine: Shane Van Gisbergen
Black Panther: Dale Earndhart Jr
Starlord: Lewis Hamilton
Gamora: Simona de Silvestro
Drax: Tony Stewart
Groot: Alex Wurz
Rocket: Felipe Massa
Vision: Will Power
Scarlet Witch: Sabine Schmitz


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:51 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
So, today, Alonso tells Nate Saunders, "(he) rates himself as one of the best drivers to have ever graced the Formula One grid."

Well, he gets a 10.5 rating for selfishness, and an 11 for arrogance, in my book. His inflated opinion of himself is bested only by the current American President. Alonso's career died almost 10 years ago. Pity he'll be the last person on the planet to realize it.

Got a link to that comment? I'd like to know the context.

For a driver whose career "died almost 10 years ago", he sure does drive well. Most reasonable people still consider him to be one of the best drivers in F1, if not the best. His performance at Indy last year was certainly noteable... Especially for one whose career has been dead for a decade. I suspect he will acquit himself well at LeMans too. Win records are not the only indicator of a driver's career.

Judged by your blanket condemnation of him, it would appear that perhaps Alonso, and Trump, have found their internet "match" for arrogance.
;)

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:55 pm 
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Blake wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
So, today, Alonso tells Nate Saunders, "(he) rates himself as one of the best drivers to have ever graced the Formula One grid."

Well, he gets a 10.5 rating for selfishness, and an 11 for arrogance, in my book. His inflated opinion of himself is bested only by the current American President. Alonso's career died almost 10 years ago. Pity he'll be the last person on the planet to realize it.

Got a link to that comment? I'd like to know the context.

For a driver whose career "died almost 10 years ago", he sure does drive well. Most reasonable people still consider him to be one of the best drivers in F1, if not the best. His performance at Indy last year was certainly noteable... Especially for one whose career has been dead for a decade. I suspect he will acquit himself well at LeMans too. Win records are not the only indicator of a driver's career.

Judged by your blanket condemnation of him, it would appear that perhaps Alonso, and Trump, have found their internet "match" for arrogance.
;)


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44420958

Highlights:

Quote:
"I am one of the best to have raced in F1," the Spaniard said.

"I am probably not fastest in qualifying, or the wet, but I am 9.5 in all areas. I try to benefit from that."

Hamilton has paid tribute to Alonso, who he regards as the best driver other than himself in F1, saying: "He will always be one of the greatest drivers of all time. It has been a privilege to be in the sport during his time."


and the video which gives some context about the questions he was asked (MB asks him "are you the best ever f1 driver?" and FA responds "i'm one of the best, but probably not the best"):

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... -f1s-elite


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:27 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
So, today, Alonso tells Nate Saunders, "(he) rates himself as one of the best drivers to have ever graced the Formula One grid."

Well, he gets a 10.5 rating for selfishness, and an 11 for arrogance, in my book. His inflated opinion of himself is bested only by the current American President. Alonso's career died almost 10 years ago. Pity he'll be the last person on the planet to realize it.

why is it selfish? I get the arrogance, although to be fair he was answering a question put to him, so one could argue he was merely being candid. But how is it selfish?

his career is still going strong as far as I can see. He's not in the best car, that's for sure, but I don't recall anyone, outside some forumers, saying he's past it as a driver


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:38 pm 
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Blake wrote:
moby wrote:
I think he will not only chase the 'triple crown', but try to add a notch to it.

So, (sensible) opinions of what other crown would he chase?

Pikes Peak? Bathhurst? Dakar?

what are you seeing as the triple crown, moby? Monaco GP... Indy 500. ...LeMans?

The Daytona 500 has been considered by some.

A Pikes Peak unlimited or Attack class win would be quite notable, Bathurst as well. Any WRC race or one of the major off-road races (Dakar, Baja, or such)... Or to push extremes. World of Outlaws at Knoxville!

Obviously there are many ways a driver could prove his skills, beyond the safety of his chosen discipline.

;)

I’d say that the Daytona 24 is a better candidate than the 500 to be considered a 4th jewel in the crown. Only due to the higher participation of international drivers and the fact that in many ways it’s the first major race of the calendar year.

Same logic goes for Bathurst. It’s a bit of an All-Star race for the series it’s a part of and brings in a lot of drivers from all over and from different disciplines to flesh out the field.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:29 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
Blake wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
So, today, Alonso tells Nate Saunders, "(he) rates himself as one of the best drivers to have ever graced the Formula One grid."

Well, he gets a 10.5 rating for selfishness, and an 11 for arrogance, in my book. His inflated opinion of himself is bested only by the current American President. Alonso's career died almost 10 years ago. Pity he'll be the last person on the planet to realize it.

Got a link to that comment? I'd like to know the context.

For a driver whose career "died almost 10 years ago", he sure does drive well. Most reasonable people still consider him to be one of the best drivers in F1, if not the best. His performance at Indy last year was certainly noteable... Especially for one whose career has been dead for a decade. I suspect he will acquit himself well at LeMans too. Win records are not the only indicator of a driver's career.

Judged by your blanket condemnation of him, it would appear that perhaps Alonso, and Trump, have found their internet "match" for arrogance.
;)


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/44420958

Highlights:

Quote:
"I am one of the best to have raced in F1," the Spaniard said.

"I am probably not fastest in qualifying, or the wet, but I am 9.5 in all areas. I try to benefit from that."

Hamilton has paid tribute to Alonso, who he regards as the best driver other than himself in F1, saying: "He will always be one of the greatest drivers of all time. It has been a privilege to be in the sport during his time."


and the video which gives some context about the questions he was asked (MB asks him "are you the best ever f1 driver?" and FA responds "i'm one of the best, but probably not the best"):

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... -f1s-elite


Thanks, Heath.

It certainly comes across much better in context, doesn't it. Bob seems have neglected to mention that Alonso was answering a question to him. Surprise, surprise.

:nod:

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:42 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Blake wrote:
moby wrote:
I think he will not only chase the 'triple crown', but try to add a notch to it.

So, (sensible) opinions of what other crown would he chase?

Pikes Peak? Bathhurst? Dakar?

what are you seeing as the triple crown, moby? Monaco GP... Indy 500. ...LeMans?

The Daytona 500 has been considered by some.

A Pikes Peak unlimited or Attack class win would be quite notable, Bathurst as well. Any WRC race or one of the major off-road races (Dakar, Baja, or such)... Or to push extremes. World of Outlaws at Knoxville!

Obviously there are many ways a driver could prove his skills, beyond the safety of his chosen discipline.

;)


I’d say that the Daytona 24 is a better candidate than the 500 to be considered a 4th jewel in the crown. Only due to the higher participation of international drivers and the fact that in many ways it’s the first major race of the calendar year.

Same logic goes for Bathurst. It’s a bit of an All-Star race for the series it’s a part of and brings in a lot of drivers from all over and from different disciplines to flesh out the field.


I'd argue that the Daytona 24 wouldn't add as much luster to his career when one considers whatever success he would have LeMans as the Daytona 24 would just be seen as another 24 hour endurance race. The Daytona 500 however, would be a challenge of an entirely different racing discipline with Mario Andretti and AJ Foyt being the only "outsiders" to have won it... Both of them being in Tier 1 of all-around racing "giants" in my 60 some years of following motor racing. To add that to Nando's resume would be quite impressive.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:46 pm 
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Fernando300 - 14/22.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:26 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
why is it selfish? I get the arrogance, although to be fair he was answering a question put to him, so one could argue he was merely being candid. But how is it selfish?

Throughout his career, regardless of team, Alonso has never offered an ounce of respect for his teammates. Never. He has always considered himself the #1 driver within his team, even when he wasn't (McLaren 2007).

Never was this selfishness more evident than in China, 2010, during the double-stack pit stop with Ferrari teammate Massa. Alonso couldn't remotely stomach the idea of pitting 2nd behind Massa. So he divebombed Massa at the pit entrance. Luckily there was no immediate pileup and blockage of pit entrance for the whole field. But this pass was demonstrably selfish... recklessly selfish.

Even with his current foray in WEC -- a team driving sport if ever there was one -- you'll notice he will never mention his fellow teammates in interviews. That would put them on the same stage as himself, and of course, that can't happen.

We've discussed this before. People simply have their opinions, which won't change here.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:33 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Zoue wrote:
why is it selfish? I get the arrogance, although to be fair he was answering a question put to him, so one could argue he was merely being candid. But how is it selfish?

Throughout his career, regardless of team, Alonso has never offered an ounce of respect for his teammates. Never. He has always considered himself the #1 driver within his team, even when he wasn't (McLaren 2007).

Never was this selfishness more evident than in China, 2010, during the double-stack pit stop with Ferrari teammate Massa. Alonso couldn't remotely stomach the idea of pitting 2nd behind Massa. So he divebombed Massa at the pit entrance. Luckily there was no immediate pileup and blockage of pit entrance for the whole field. But this pass was demonstrably selfish... recklessly selfish.

Even with his current foray in WEC -- a team driving sport if ever there was one -- you'll notice he will never mention his fellow teammates in interviews. That would put them on the same stage as himself, and of course, that can't happen.

We've discussed this before. People simply have their opinions, which won't change here.

OK. thought you were referring to his comments today


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:24 am 
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RaggedMan wrote:
I’d say that the Daytona 24 is a better candidate than the 500 to be considered a 4th jewel in the crown. Only due to the higher participation of international drivers and the fact that in many ways it’s the first major race of the calendar year.

Same logic goes for Bathurst. It’s a bit of an All-Star race for the series it’s a part of and brings in a lot of drivers from all over and from different disciplines to flesh out the field.


Testify !!!!

I could not agree more, both the 24 Hours of Daytona and the 12 Hours of Bathurst are truly epic races. Personally, I have more anticipation and get more excited than any Formula One race.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:43 am 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Zoue wrote:
why is it selfish? I get the arrogance, although to be fair he was answering a question put to him, so one could argue he was merely being candid. But how is it selfish?

Throughout his career, regardless of team, Alonso has never offered an ounce of respect for his teammates. Never. He has always considered himself the #1 driver within his team, even when he wasn't (McLaren 2007).

Never was this selfishness more evident than in China, 2010, during the double-stack pit stop with Ferrari teammate Massa. Alonso couldn't remotely stomach the idea of pitting 2nd behind Massa. So he divebombed Massa at the pit entrance. Luckily there was no immediate pileup and blockage of pit entrance for the whole field. But this pass was demonstrably selfish... recklessly selfish.

Even with his current foray in WEC -- a team driving sport if ever there was one -- you'll notice he will never mention his fellow teammates in interviews. That would put them on the same stage as himself, and of course, that can't happen.

We've discussed this before. People simply have their opinions, which won't change here.


Not true..

Quote:
"It was a nice debut, definitely,” said Alonso. “In the race I think we led basically all the laps. We had three safety cars with regroup, so we lost the advantage we had, but we just kept the position until the last lap.

“Fantastic debut, first endurance race in the world championship, amazing job by the team, 1-2 in qualifying and 1-2 in the race. Kazuki, and Sebastien in the start, made my life a little bit easier.”
https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/alo ... 34091/?s=1



And there are just too many excerpts of praising his team mates in F1, will take you two seconds to Google them but I'll put another Sportscar one up as similar to WEC..

Lando Norris (Daytona UA Team mate)

https://www.planetf1.com/news/alonso-ha ... ve-norris/

Quote:
About my team-mates, maybe it’s not a surprise [to me], but for the people that don’t know Lando, it will be a surprise for them,” said the Spaniard. “The things he did were very impressive. The teamwork, the preparation, the focus.

“At night if you look, when we switched to wet tyres for one stint, we were fifth, one minute behind the leader. Then we switched to slick tyres again in damp conditions – all this with Lando driving – and we were 27 seconds behind the leaders.

“So even in wet conditions, his first time in a prototype, first time in Daytona, first time with Continental tyres, he recovered 33 seconds in 20 laps or something like that.

“He is 18 years old, so that is quite impressive…”

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:33 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Zoue wrote:
why is it selfish? I get the arrogance, although to be fair he was answering a question put to him, so one could argue he was merely being candid. But how is it selfish?

Throughout his career, regardless of team, Alonso has never offered an ounce of respect for his teammates. Never. He has always considered himself the #1 driver within his team, even when he wasn't (McLaren 2007).

Never was this selfishness more evident than in China, 2010, during the double-stack pit stop with Ferrari teammate Massa. Alonso couldn't remotely stomach the idea of pitting 2nd behind Massa. So he divebombed Massa at the pit entrance. Luckily there was no immediate pileup and blockage of pit entrance for the whole field. But this pass was demonstrably selfish... recklessly selfish.

Even with his current foray in WEC -- a team driving sport if ever there was one -- you'll notice he will never mention his fellow teammates in interviews. That would put them on the same stage as himself, and of course, that can't happen.

We've discussed this before. People simply have their opinions, which won't change here.


Good for him. Name any WDC driver who was not selfish and self-centered? Ever heard of Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton, or Vettel? This is what makes the greats who they are, the drive to be the best, not just a good buddy. I want drivers to be selfish SOB's willing and able to battle anyone and everyone at any time. This is not a charity or a feel-good movie, this is hard core competition, may the best man win. Drivers should be very willing to walk over the ashes of their teammates in their pursuit of a title or win.

Mod Edit: Insult removed.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:20 am 
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We have our opinions on what Alonso will do, but it is important to hear some noises coming from other parties.

Zak Brown just stated this in an interview.

"As he's mentioned I think he's a little frustrated with Formula One being I think as he said becoming more of a constructors' championship than a drivers' championship. He loves Formula 1, he loves World Endurance and Daytona, so hopefully we will keep Fernando in the McLaren environment in some way, shape or form."
http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/23747090/mclaren-entry-indycar-looking-favorable

But from a completely different source and direction, ACO President Pierre Fillon stated:

"We want manufacturers to return. Le Mans must remain a laboratory for new technology. So [future] cars will have hybrid technology and bodywork allowing people to recognize a brand or make… say like Toyota or McLaren!"
https://racer.com/2018/06/10/we-want-manufacturers-to-return-to-top-class-fillon/

So manufacturers like McLaren are being enticed to getting back into LeMans. With the implosion of LMP1, the ACO are looking for and writing new rules for the top class in LeMans racing.

McLaren are definitely looking at more than just Formula One. It may be Indycar, it may be LeMans. Either way, McLaren can dangle the carrot in front of Alonso, guaranteeing him a competitive drive outside of Formula One.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:38 am 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Zoue wrote:
why is it selfish? I get the arrogance, although to be fair he was answering a question put to him, so one could argue he was merely being candid. But how is it selfish?

Throughout his career, regardless of team, Alonso has never offered an ounce of respect for his teammates. Never. He has always considered himself the #1 driver within his team, even when he wasn't (McLaren 2007).

Never was this selfishness more evident than in China, 2010, during the double-stack pit stop with Ferrari teammate Massa. Alonso couldn't remotely stomach the idea of pitting 2nd behind Massa. So he divebombed Massa at the pit entrance. Luckily there was no immediate pileup and blockage of pit entrance for the whole field. But this pass was demonstrably selfish... recklessly selfish.

Even with his current foray in WEC -- a team driving sport if ever there was one -- you'll notice he will never mention his fellow teammates in interviews. That would put them on the same stage as himself, and of course, that can't happen.

We've discussed this before. People simply have their opinions, which won't change here.


Good for him. Name any WDC driver who was not selfish and self-centered? Ever heard of Senna, Schumacher, Hamilton, or Vettel? This is what makes the greats who they are, the drive to be the best, not just a good buddy. I want drivers to be selfish SOB's willing and able to battle anyone and everyone at any time. This is not a charity or a feel-good movie, this is hard core competition, may the best man win. Drivers should be very willing to walk over the ashes of their teammates in their pursuit of a title or win.

Mod Edit: Insult removed.


Largely agree, but the China 2010 example given by MB-BOB I agree with is an example of going a bit too far.
I should also check back on the rules but I thought the white lines of pit lane indicate the track borders and so that overtake was even illegal.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:00 am 
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If I recall Vettel did something similar in China and it was legal. I think it was he overtook Hulk on the way in as he was going slow.


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:21 am 
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JamWalsh wrote:
If I recall Vettel did something similar in China and it was legal. I think it was he overtook Hulk on the way in as he was going slow.


No, wasn't similar. You're probably referring to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0rc3bNJQow

As per regulations he remains "on track" (since at least one of his wheels is on track at all times). So fully legal.

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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:36 am 
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mds wrote:
JamWalsh wrote:
If I recall Vettel did something similar in China and it was legal. I think it was he overtook Hulk on the way in as he was going slow.


No, wasn't similar. You're probably referring to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0rc3bNJQow

As per regulations he remains "on track" (since at least one of his wheels is on track at all times). So fully legal.


You are correct, my apologies. they are very different. I remembered it wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Fernando300
PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:00 am 
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JamWalsh wrote:
mds wrote:
JamWalsh wrote:
If I recall Vettel did something similar in China and it was legal. I think it was he overtook Hulk on the way in as he was going slow.


No, wasn't similar. You're probably referring to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0rc3bNJQow

As per regulations he remains "on track" (since at least one of his wheels is on track at all times). So fully legal.


You are correct, my apologies. they are very different. I remembered it wrong.


No need to apologise at all. We all remember lots of things wrong :)

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