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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:53 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
mas wrote:
Vettel and Raikkonen want to stay says Marchionne

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37060.html


Yeah. Raikkonen did a lot good to his chances in Hungary for being retained as the no.2 at Ferrari for 2018.

Even after that result he's STILL behind Ricciardo in the WDC x(

But he did pick the perfect time to play the ideal #2 role

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:00 am 
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mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of


If Kimi is retained, Perez maybe wouldn't want to go anywhere. Perez had agreed to a 1 year deal with FI as he had believed / hoped that Kimi would retire or not be retained by Ferrari for 2018 & he would have a good chance for the Ferrari seat. It surely looks Kimi is staying (again).

Don't think Williams or Renault are attractive enough to Perez.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:38 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of


If Kimi is retained, Perez maybe wouldn't want to go anywhere. Perez had agreed to a 1 year deal with FI as he had believed / hoped that Kimi would retire or not be retained by Ferrari for 2018 & he would have a good chance for the Ferrari seat. It surely looks Kimi is staying (again).

Don't think Williams or Renault are attractive enough to Perez.


I think Perez is ready for a move.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:45 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of


If Kimi is retained, Perez maybe wouldn't want to go anywhere. Perez had agreed to a 1 year deal with FI as he had believed / hoped that Kimi would retire or not be retained by Ferrari for 2018 & he would have a good chance for the Ferrari seat. It surely looks Kimi is staying (again).

Don't think Williams or Renault are attractive enough to Perez.


I think Perez is ready for a move.


Yeah. He had that cheeky smile on his face when he was asked if he wanted a contract signed with Force India. He smiled cheekily & said who knows what might happen. As if he knows where he's going already.

Sadly, it won't be Ferrari as Kimi will be retained. Renault seems a good bet according to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:59 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of


If Kimi is retained, Perez maybe wouldn't want to go anywhere. Perez had agreed to a 1 year deal with FI as he had believed / hoped that Kimi would retire or not be retained by Ferrari for 2018 & he would have a good chance for the Ferrari seat. It surely looks Kimi is staying (again).

Don't think Williams or Renault are attractive enough to Perez.


I think Perez is ready for a move.


I've said it many times: occasional podiums is Force India's ceiling in the current F1. If he was smart he'd be looking to join Hulk at Renault. But he's in competition with Kubica at the very least, plus probably Ocon, who Renault are very fond of. If it isn't Kubica then it would be fair to assume one of the current Force India drivers end up at Renault. In which case does Wehrlein take the vacancy at Force India, with Leclerc paired with Ericsson at Sauber?

In the event that Kubica partners Hulk, I do still wonder if one of the FI pair will move on, although Williams seems like the only alternative unless something very unexpected happens. Can Perez and Ocon continue together for another year? Bit of a nightmare that for FI: a great driving pairing that is turning increasingly toxic.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of


If Kimi is retained, Perez maybe wouldn't want to go anywhere. Perez had agreed to a 1 year deal with FI as he had believed / hoped that Kimi would retire or not be retained by Ferrari for 2018 & he would have a good chance for the Ferrari seat. It surely looks Kimi is staying (again).

Don't think Williams or Renault are attractive enough to Perez.


I think Perez is ready for a move.


I've said it many times: occasional podiums is Force India's ceiling in the current F1. If he was smart he'd be looking to join Hulk at Renault. But he's in competition with Kubica at the very least, plus probably Ocon, who Renault are very fond of. If it isn't Kubica then it would be fair to assume one of the current Force India drivers end up at Renault. In which case does Wehrlein take the vacancy at Force India, with Leclerc paired with Ericsson at Sauber?

In the event that Kubica partners Hulk, I do still wonder if one of the FI pair will move on, although Williams seems like the only alternative unless something very unexpected happens. Can Perez and Ocon continue together for another year? Bit of a nightmare that for FI: a great driving pairing that is turning increasingly toxic.


Isn't Ocon contracted to FI till 2019? Perez's contract ends at the end of 2017.

I'm sure Mercedes would block Ocon moving over to Renault as he's touted as their future star. Perez no doubt has Kubica for competition. Kubica returning to F1 would bring a smile on everyone's face maybe except Perez's because then Perez would be stuck with 2 options - Williams or FI again!

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Rumours have gained strong momentum about Leclerc joining Sauber in 2018:
http://www.thedrive.com/start-finish/13030/new-f1-rumors-suggest-formula-2-driver-leclerc-could-be-in-a-sauber-for-2018

Sergio M. claiming that Sauber could be Ferrari B-team surely adds fuel to the fire. Leclerc is more than welcome to F1.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:36 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of


If Kimi is retained, Perez maybe wouldn't want to go anywhere. Perez had agreed to a 1 year deal with FI as he had believed / hoped that Kimi would retire or not be retained by Ferrari for 2018 & he would have a good chance for the Ferrari seat. It surely looks Kimi is staying (again).

Don't think Williams or Renault are attractive enough to Perez.


I think Perez is ready for a move.


I've said it many times: occasional podiums is Force India's ceiling in the current F1. If he was smart he'd be looking to join Hulk at Renault. But he's in competition with Kubica at the very least, plus probably Ocon, who Renault are very fond of. If it isn't Kubica then it would be fair to assume one of the current Force India drivers end up at Renault. In which case does Wehrlein take the vacancy at Force India, with Leclerc paired with Ericsson at Sauber?

In the event that Kubica partners Hulk, I do still wonder if one of the FI pair will move on, although Williams seems like the only alternative unless something very unexpected happens. Can Perez and Ocon continue together for another year? Bit of a nightmare that for FI: a great driving pairing that is turning increasingly toxic.


From what I've read the rumour mill puts Perez most likely at either Renault (we all know they really want Ocon but can't get him a the moment) or Williams (Massa retires - again!!).

The potential hiccup for Perez at Renault is the Kubica Conundrum!!

Is RK really looking for a way back into F1 and are Renault seriously looking at him? If so, then the obvious scenario is that he replaces Jolyon Palmer - who although desperately unlucky sometimes - has failed to the world alight when things have been going his way. The Hulk & Kubuca at Renault for 2018? A good PR/marketing man's dream scenario - The Comeback 'Kid' etc, etc - assuming he can make a better go of it than Michael Schumacher and Nigel Mansell!!

Personally I see Perez & The Hulk at Renault and I think this would be a reasonable line-up - they seemed to work together ok at Force India or at least I don't remember reading of any bust-ups anyway. However, it seems to me that they just might end up as The Odd Couple. For years loads of people involved with F1 have been really positive about Hulkenberg - his talent, commitment etc, etc - but no-ones ever been quite impressed enough to offer him a top drive; IMO Checo might well fall into this same scenario - you don't often, if ever, hear people speaking ill of him (other than his stint at McLaren which was a mistake on both sides I think) but no-one's rushing to sign him to a top team either. If I were him and Renault came sniffing I'd jump at it.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:00 pm 
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The thing with Perez though is that he comes with serious backing and if Carlos Slim isn't onboard with a potential switch team it isn't going to happen. It's been said that that is why he isn't already at Renault.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:17 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
The thing with Perez though is that he comes with serious backing and if Carlos Slim isn't onboard with a potential switch team it isn't going to happen. It's been said that that is why he isn't already at Renault.


His backers turned down Renault. Like a lot of South American footballers I'm not really sure how in control of his career Perez is.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:37 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Rumours have gained strong momentum about Leclerc joining Sauber in 2018:
http://www.thedrive.com/start-finish/13030/new-f1-rumors-suggest-formula-2-driver-leclerc-could-be-in-a-sauber-for-2018

Sergio M. claiming that Sauber could be Ferrari B-team surely adds fuel to the fire. Leclerc is more than welcome to F1.

On his performances so far that boy looks like the reincarnation of Jim Clark ! Ultra fast, smooth and really beautiful precise driving lines with no wasted effort. If that performance travels to F1 intact he will make serious waves there.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:52 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Giovinazzi's latest FP1 crash to add to other F1 related crashes I think now starts to put him on the back foot relative to Leclerc.


So one FP1 crash after our big discussion last month in which you argued against the idea that Ferrari could take Leclerc ahead of Giovinazzi, you already concede that that might actually happen? ;)

I believed that Gioninazzi was better placed than Leclerc because of the Haas FP1 sessions, but he still has to shine in the sessions and it's not just 1 crash he also had 2 big crashes in his last GP outing for Sauber as well.

He has some more FP1 sessions penciled in with Haas but I think now he has to show something better because I can see the tide turning in favour of Leclerc.


You also seemed to believe it was impossible for Leclerc to jump Giovinazzi in the pecking order.

I said that Giovinazzi was better placed that Leclerc because Ferrari gave him so many FP1 sessions with Haas even though Leclerc was doing so well in F2.

Why would they do this if Leclerc was the more favoured driver, that makes no sense?

However Giovinazzi still has to perform and wrecking the car doesn't do him any favours, they gave him the tests even though he wrecked the Sauber twice when he raced for them the second and last time so I ignored that, but now he risks having the reputation of being a car wrecker whilst Leclerc goes from strength to strength in F2, so now I see the balance tipping towards Leclerc.

Having said that apparently it was Giovinazzi's input on the simulator that pioneered the win for Ferrari in Hungary so that's a plus for him.

Giovinazzi still has more FP1 outings for Haas to come, I think now he needs to impress.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:58 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Exediron wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Yeah. Leclerc is needed in F1.

Update: Leclerc has just gotten his 7th consecutive pole.

I wonder if anyone is offering odds that Leclerc can get 100% of the poles for the season?

Even without his crashes, Leclerc is looking the much more exciting prospect than Giovinazzi. Someone needs to get that kid into an F1 seat for 2018, preferably either Ericsson's or Wehrlein's.


Leclerc again proved his mettle. His pole lap was disqualified & he started 19th. He finished in 4th. He's got talent to match Verstappen.

From what I saw in GP3 he's not that good in the wet and thus far he's not been tested in F2 in such conditions, he also seemed to have poor tyre management in GP3 but having said that his tyre management in F2 has been good, maybe he has the capacity to improve his wet weather driving as well?


Right now Leclerc is so good in the dry it really doesn't matter if he's not good in the wet!

I was responding to the post that said that Leclerc has the talent to match Verstappen, maybe I have watched Leclerc performances more closely than some?

I have been watching him closely since F3 after Verstappen advised his former team to sign him, from what I have seen he doesn't have the wet weather ability of Verstappen in fact he was quite weak in that respect in GP3.

I wasn't making a case for him not making it to F1 because of this.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:00 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
As per Sky Italia, Ferrari is set to retain its drivers for 2018:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37054.html

Don't know how reliable Sky Italia is but this was anticipated. However, they retaining Kimi proves that whatever Ferrari does is uninspiring & lacks boldness by staying safe.

Well you have to ask how many drivers would have given up the race win in Hungary for Vettel?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:03 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I actually said this a couple of days ago that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team for next year with Ericcson teamed with one of the Ferrari junior drivers, I gave the nod to Leclerc at the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:04 am 
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moby wrote:
What are the chances of Kimi going to the Ferrari 'B' team at some time?
~If they are not sure Le Clerc or whoever the chosen one is, it is a back up to have Kimi on hand to swap back.
He has a wealth of experience, but I kont know how much of it he transfers :]

Kimi would not do that.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:06 am 
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mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of

His best chance is if Ocon goes to Renault otherwise he has no seat.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:07 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of


If Kimi is retained, Perez maybe wouldn't want to go anywhere. Perez had agreed to a 1 year deal with FI as he had believed / hoped that Kimi would retire or not be retained by Ferrari for 2018 & he would have a good chance for the Ferrari seat. It surely looks Kimi is staying (again).

Don't think Williams or Renault are attractive enough to Perez.

It's being said that Perez will stay with FI.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:10 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of


If Kimi is retained, Perez maybe wouldn't want to go anywhere. Perez had agreed to a 1 year deal with FI as he had believed / hoped that Kimi would retire or not be retained by Ferrari for 2018 & he would have a good chance for the Ferrari seat. It surely looks Kimi is staying (again).

Don't think Williams or Renault are attractive enough to Perez.


I think Perez is ready for a move.


I've said it many times: occasional podiums is Force India's ceiling in the current F1. If he was smart he'd be looking to join Hulk at Renault. But he's in competition with Kubica at the very least, plus probably Ocon, who Renault are very fond of. If it isn't Kubica then it would be fair to assume one of the current Force India drivers end up at Renault. In which case does Wehrlein take the vacancy at Force India, with Leclerc paired with Ericsson at Sauber?

In the event that Kubica partners Hulk, I do still wonder if one of the FI pair will move on, although Williams seems like the only alternative unless something very unexpected happens. Can Perez and Ocon continue together for another year? Bit of a nightmare that for FI: a great driving pairing that is turning increasingly toxic.

According to Oliver Rowland the seat is between himself, Palmer, Ocon or Kubica, no mention of Perez.

Maybe Renault are not that impressed that Perez turned them down last season or Perez has basically already decided to stay with FI?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:13 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
mcdo wrote:
I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of


If Kimi is retained, Perez maybe wouldn't want to go anywhere. Perez had agreed to a 1 year deal with FI as he had believed / hoped that Kimi would retire or not be retained by Ferrari for 2018 & he would have a good chance for the Ferrari seat. It surely looks Kimi is staying (again).

Don't think Williams or Renault are attractive enough to Perez.


I think Perez is ready for a move.


I've said it many times: occasional podiums is Force India's ceiling in the current F1. If he was smart he'd be looking to join Hulk at Renault. But he's in competition with Kubica at the very least, plus probably Ocon, who Renault are very fond of. If it isn't Kubica then it would be fair to assume one of the current Force India drivers end up at Renault. In which case does Wehrlein take the vacancy at Force India, with Leclerc paired with Ericsson at Sauber?

In the event that Kubica partners Hulk, I do still wonder if one of the FI pair will move on, although Williams seems like the only alternative unless something very unexpected happens. Can Perez and Ocon continue together for another year? Bit of a nightmare that for FI: a great driving pairing that is turning increasingly toxic.


Isn't Ocon contracted to FI till 2019? Perez's contract ends at the end of 2017.

I'm sure Mercedes would block Ocon moving over to Renault as he's touted as their future star. Perez no doubt has Kubica for competition. Kubica returning to F1 would bring a smile on everyone's face maybe except Perez's because then Perez would be stuck with 2 options - Williams or FI again!

Maybe Mercedes let Ocon go because they have a problem finding a seat for Wehrlein?

Ocon is doing well but still getting beat by Perez thus far.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:08 am 
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Maybe Mercedes let Ocon go because they have a problem finding a seat for Wehrlein?

Ocon is doing well but still getting beat by Perez thus far.

@Poker - 1 factor worth putting into consideration is that most of the races that have taken place so far, Ocon has never ever driven on those tracks. He has on Hungary & in the practice sessions was beating Perez. He also did beat Perez in Silverstone.

The tracks coming after the summer break are familiar to Ocon & I'm expecting an increased performance from him.

I still doubt Ocon would go to Renault.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:46 am 
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pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per Sky Italia, Ferrari is set to retain its drivers for 2018:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37054.html

Don't know how reliable Sky Italia is but this was anticipated. However, they retaining Kimi proves that whatever Ferrari does is uninspiring & lacks boldness by staying safe.

Well you have to ask how many drivers would have given up the race win in Hungary for Vettel?

Perhaps the question should be "How many drivers would have given up the race win in Hungary for Vettel and a gauranteed race seat for 2018?"

I have to say I'm disappointed in Kimi as he appears to be in F1 just for the pay cheque these days :-(

pokerman wrote:
Maybe Mercedes let Ocon go because they have a problem finding a seat for Wehrlein?

From what I've read Wehrlein has developed a reputation as 'difficult to work with' and that it was one of the reasons Ocon got the FI gig even though he was less experienced.

If true, that's a very hard label for a young driver to shake.

If he's not retained at Sauber - and I personally don't think he's done enough to justify his seat - I think he'll be out of F1 next season.

pokerman wrote:
Ocon is doing well but still getting beat by Perez thus far.

True - but it doesn't look quite as good if you consider Ocon is only in his 2nd season in F1 and Perez is in his 5th, does it?

RaggedMan wrote:
The thing with Perez though is that he comes with serious backing and if Carlos Slim isn't onboard with a potential switch team it isn't going to happen. It's been said that that is why he isn't already at Renault.

If this is true - then it could seriously limit his opportunities - ironic really as it probably gave him his original opportunity - certainly I can't see Williams being an option - Slim & Stroll together arguing over who's driver gets priority? :-)

If Renault is out then I think his only viable option is to stay with FI.

His constantly alluding that he's on Ferrari's radar is now getting boring - there's too many others around for this to be anything more than his own personal wish - unless he's prepared to be a No.2 driver to someone like Verstappen, perhaps in 2019/20?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:16 am 
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pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
If Kimi is retained, Perez maybe wouldn't want to go anywhere. Perez had agreed to a 1 year deal with FI as he had believed / hoped that Kimi would retire or not be retained by Ferrari for 2018 & he would have a good chance for the Ferrari seat. It surely looks Kimi is staying (again).

Don't think Williams or Renault are attractive enough to Perez.


I think Perez is ready for a move.


I've said it many times: occasional podiums is Force India's ceiling in the current F1. If he was smart he'd be looking to join Hulk at Renault. But he's in competition with Kubica at the very least, plus probably Ocon, who Renault are very fond of. If it isn't Kubica then it would be fair to assume one of the current Force India drivers end up at Renault. In which case does Wehrlein take the vacancy at Force India, with Leclerc paired with Ericsson at Sauber?

In the event that Kubica partners Hulk, I do still wonder if one of the FI pair will move on, although Williams seems like the only alternative unless something very unexpected happens. Can Perez and Ocon continue together for another year? Bit of a nightmare that for FI: a great driving pairing that is turning increasingly toxic.


Isn't Ocon contracted to FI till 2019? Perez's contract ends at the end of 2017.

I'm sure Mercedes would block Ocon moving over to Renault as he's touted as their future star. Perez no doubt has Kubica for competition. Kubica returning to F1 would bring a smile on everyone's face maybe except Perez's because then Perez would be stuck with 2 options - Williams or FI again!

Maybe Mercedes let Ocon go because they have a problem finding a seat for Wehrlein?

Ocon is doing well but still getting beat by Perez thus far.

There is absolutely no reason for Mercedes to let Ocon go

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:18 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of

His best chance is if Ocon goes to Renault otherwise he has no seat.

Isn't he signed to Force India until 2019?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:39 am 
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mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of

His best chance is if Ocon goes to Renault otherwise he has no seat.

Isn't he signed to Force India until 2019?


He is.

Infact Wehrlein's seat is in jeopardy. Ericsson is bound to stay & either Giovinazzi or Leclerc will take the other seat at Sauber Ferrari.
https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/229744/wehrlein-is-likely-to-lose-f1-seat

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:27 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of

His best chance is if Ocon goes to Renault otherwise he has no seat.

In my impression Wehrlein (along with Ocon) is one of the best newcomers since Jules Bianchi, and with his good results, it would be shame if he can not find the seat.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:50 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Maybe Mercedes let Ocon go because they have a problem finding a seat for Wehrlein?

Ocon is doing well but still getting beat by Perez thus far.

@Poker - 1 factor worth putting into consideration is that most of the races that have taken place so far, Ocon has never ever driven on those tracks. He has on Hungary & in the practice sessions was beating Perez. He also did beat Perez in Silverstone.

The tracks coming after the summer break are familiar to Ocon & I'm expecting an increased performance from him.

I still doubt Ocon would go to Renault.

Don't get me wrong I think Ocon is doing well but would a young Lewis Hamilton be getting consistently out qualified by Perez and beat by Perez in the races?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:00 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of

His best chance is if Ocon goes to Renault otherwise he has no seat.

Isn't he signed to Force India until 2019?

Yes he is but then again Bottas was signed to Williams for this year.

Renault are interested in him, it's probably more down to what Mercedes want, also Perez and Ocon simply don't get on, Perez is always chastising him and calling him names like Ocon lacks intelligence.

Did you see Perez's on board at the start in Hungary, Ocon was in front and Perez lunged down the inside of him hitting Ocon's car and a bit of body work flew off Ocon's car but Ocon was still in front, so Perez hit Ocon again wheel to wheel and forced Ocon off the track.

Perez with all his backing thinks he is untouchable within the team, he can say what he wants about Ocon, he can do whatever he wants on the track, he has the arrogance of Maldonado who had similar big backing.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:23 pm 
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@Poker - wow. He did that. Do You have the footage? I thought they hit each other once.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:25 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
@Poker - wow. He did that. Do You have the footage? I thought they hit each other once.

SkyF1 showed Perez's onboard after the race.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:25 pm 
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When Toto Wolff was told about the probability of Wehrlein losing his seat at Sauber, Wolff replied by saying there are interesting things to come!

Wonder what he meant?

http://www.foxsportsasia.com/motorsports/formula-1/news/detail/item308923/wolff-on-wehrleins-future-interesting-things-to-come/

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:41 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Maybe Mercedes let Ocon go because they have a problem finding a seat for Wehrlein?

Ocon is doing well but still getting beat by Perez thus far.

@Poker - 1 factor worth putting into consideration is that most of the races that have taken place so far, Ocon has never ever driven on those tracks. He has on Hungary & in the practice sessions was beating Perez. He also did beat Perez in Silverstone.

The tracks coming after the summer break are familiar to Ocon & I'm expecting an increased performance from him.

I still doubt Ocon would go to Renault.

Don't get me wrong I think Ocon is doing well but would a young Lewis Hamilton be getting consistently out qualified by Perez and beat by Perez in the races?

Lewis Hamilton's rookie season is a ridiculously high standard to hold every new driver up to. It was 10 years ago, time for the fans to take their expectations back down a notch

I've said it elsewhere, Ocon is performing best of the newbies. And I don't think the current batch a particularly bad bunch

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:44 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Sergio Marchionne has hinted that Sauber will be the Ferrari B team:
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37058.html

This really increases the possibility of seeing either Giovinazzi or Leclerc in Sauber next year but at the expense of Wehrlein?

I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of

His best chance is if Ocon goes to Renault otherwise he has no seat.

Isn't he signed to Force India until 2019?

Yes he is but then again Bottas was signed to Williams for this year.

Renault are interested in him, it's probably more down to what Mercedes want, also Perez and Ocon simply don't get on, Perez is always chastising him and calling him names like Ocon lacks intelligence.

Did you see Perez's on board at the start in Hungary, Ocon was in front and Perez lunged down the inside of him hitting Ocon's car and a bit of body work flew off Ocon's car but Ocon was still in front, so Perez hit Ocon again wheel to wheel and forced Ocon off the track.

Perez with all his backing thinks he is untouchable within the team, he can say what he wants about Ocon, he can do whatever he wants on the track, he has the arrogance of Maldonado who had similar big backing.

I guess when you're partly funding the team they're more lenient towards you. Not that that's the right way to treat the drivers

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:53 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
When Toto Wolff was told about the probability of Wehrlein losing his seat at Sauber, Wolff replied by saying there are interesting things to come!

Wonder what he meant?

http://www.foxsportsasia.com/motorsports/formula-1/news/detail/item308923/wolff-on-wehrleins-future-interesting-things-to-come/

I only see this as Ocon to Renault and Wehrlein to Force India, there are no other seats available to Wehrlein, and I know I keep harping on about this but nationality plays a part as well, Mercedes need a well placed German within the system.

Talking about nationality how much would Renault love to have a talented young Frenchman in their team?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:57 pm 
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Perez wasn't like this in the last 3 years when he partnered Hulk. 1 big factor is that mostly Perez outperformed Hulk & sometimes by a good margin. So there wasn't much friction between the 2.

Perez is genuinely feeling the heat with Ocon. Ocon has gotten upto speed & is nearly matching him to the hundredth's of a second when it comes to lap times. Perez has never feel so insecure, if you wish to put his behaviour in this bracket. If Perez wants to be on radar of a top team, he first needs to beat his team-mate comprehensively which is not happening at the moment & as the season progresses, Ocon will only get more comfortable on the tracks (starting with Spa) that he's already raced on with Manor. Ocon is high on confidence & is being a tight competitor to Perez when it comes to fighting for positions on the grid.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:02 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
When Toto Wolff was told about the probability of Wehrlein losing his seat at Sauber, Wolff replied by saying there are interesting things to come!

Wonder what he meant?

http://www.foxsportsasia.com/motorsports/formula-1/news/detail/item308923/wolff-on-wehrleins-future-interesting-things-to-come/

I only see this as Ocon to Renault and Wehrlein to Force India, there are no other seats available to Wehrlein, and I know I keep harping on about this but nationality plays a part as well, Mercedes need a well placed German within the system.

Talking about nationality how much would Renault love to have a talented young Frenchman in their team?


Agin I doubt Ocon going to Renault because:

- Ocon is gelling very well within the team & has come to speed so well hat he's literally matching Perez.
- When FI had the option to choose Ocon or Wehrlein, FI chose the former as the team didn't have much praise for Wehrlein. If they let a charming & good racer like Ocon go & put Wehrlein in his place which most of the team personnel were against, it would put FI on backfoot.
- Kubica is very much poised to join Renault sooner or later.

I wonder if Toto would make Wehrlein Mercedes' reserve driver.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:02 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Maybe Mercedes let Ocon go because they have a problem finding a seat for Wehrlein?

Ocon is doing well but still getting beat by Perez thus far.

@Poker - 1 factor worth putting into consideration is that most of the races that have taken place so far, Ocon has never ever driven on those tracks. He has on Hungary & in the practice sessions was beating Perez. He also did beat Perez in Silverstone.

The tracks coming after the summer break are familiar to Ocon & I'm expecting an increased performance from him.

I still doubt Ocon would go to Renault.

Don't get me wrong I think Ocon is doing well but would a young Lewis Hamilton be getting consistently out qualified by Perez and beat by Perez in the races?

Lewis Hamilton's rookie season is a ridiculously high standard to hold every new driver up to. It was 10 years ago, time for the fans to take their expectations back down a notch

I've said it elsewhere, Ocon is performing best of the newbies. And I don't think the current batch a particularly bad bunch

Yes Ocon is showing he is deserving of a place in F1 but also thus far we can't say he's a future superstar in the making, perception of who is doing best I think also helps when you are in the best car but having said that Ive been impressed by his maturity and it's being tested at the moment very much by the antics of Perez.

It's actually hard to make a complete comparison, Vandoorne is getting thrashed by Alonso but then again Alonso would beat Perez who in turn is consistently beating Ocon.

Meanwhile Wehrlein is beating Ericsson but Perez would also beat Ericsson, and like I say whilst Ocon is in a competitive car both Vandoorne and Wehrlein are in the two worse cars on the grid.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:05 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
I can't imagine Wehrlein being retained there. Where could Merc place him? Force India if Perez leaves is all I can think of

His best chance is if Ocon goes to Renault otherwise he has no seat.

Isn't he signed to Force India until 2019?

Yes he is but then again Bottas was signed to Williams for this year.

Renault are interested in him, it's probably more down to what Mercedes want, also Perez and Ocon simply don't get on, Perez is always chastising him and calling him names like Ocon lacks intelligence.

Did you see Perez's on board at the start in Hungary, Ocon was in front and Perez lunged down the inside of him hitting Ocon's car and a bit of body work flew off Ocon's car but Ocon was still in front, so Perez hit Ocon again wheel to wheel and forced Ocon off the track.

Perez with all his backing thinks he is untouchable within the team, he can say what he wants about Ocon, he can do whatever he wants on the track, he has the arrogance of Maldonado who had similar big backing.

I guess when you're partly funding the team they're more lenient towards you. Not that that's the right way to treat the drivers

Indeed and when Maldonado was lambasting Williams and accusing them of favoritism towards Bottas, Williams just kept quiet because they very much depending on Maldonado's money, maybe even for their own survival at the time?

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Last edited by pokerman on Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Ocon has shaken Perez. IMO his driving in Canada made things pretty clear, he defended against Ocon as hard as he could and then pretty much waved Vettel by. He didn't care where he finished that race he only cared about finishing ahead of Ocon.

His pushing of Ocon before T2 at Baku just before the crash and his dive into T1 here are just further examples IMO. Someone on Sky said they had spoken to Bob Fernley about it and he said that Ocon winds Perez up because no matter what happens between them he just keeps smiling and that gets under Sergio's skin.

I doubt we've seen the last of the fireworks between them, personally I'm rooting for Ocon in that particular battle.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly season 2018
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:09 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Ocon has shaken Perez. IMO his driving in Canada made things pretty clear, he defended against Ocon as hard as he could and then pretty much waved Vettel by. He didn't care where he finished that race he only cared about finishing ahead of Ocon.

His pushing of Ocon before T2 at Baku just before the crash and his dive into T1 here are just further examples IMO. Someone on Sky said they had spoken to Bob Fernley about it and said that Ocon winds Perez up because no matter what happens between them he just keeps smiling and that gets under his skin. I doubt we've seen the last of the fireworks between them, personally I'm rooting for Ocon in that particular battle.


Ocon has been a revelation this season, if You ask me.

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