planetf1.com

It is currently Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:00 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 7:52 pm
Posts: 678
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Formula One is a result-driven business. Wins, championships, and good results are the fuel that drives any team forward. You may have the most charismatic driver in the universe, but if he does not produce results, it is all in vain. I mentioned the word "business" because this is very relevant. Teams look at drivers and situations not emotionally, but from a very cold and calculating viewpoint.

There is a lot going on within the Formula One community, little we ever hear of. Drivers constantly communicate with other teams, and vice versa with the intent of feeling each other out, and exploring options. Every so often Eddie Jordan may get a tidbit and spill the beans, but Formula One has big ears and the grapevine(s) is intense. Mechanics talk to other mechanics, team principles talk to each other, the word of anything big spreads very quickly.

So unfortunately, we the fans get very little of the true picture,most of it is a landscape of fantasy painted by some pundit who mows little and has a huge imagination. As far as temperamental or difficult driver,s the sport has always had them and currently has a full larder. But when a team and driver do decide to agree on a contract, those can be lengthly and full of penalty and release clauses.

And forget any Red Bull driver going anywhere in the near future, Red Bull know how to keep their drivers within the organization. Of course Vettel was an exception, but he wanted to go, and with his four time WDC status, was asking more than the organization was willing to pay. Red Bull usually pay their drivers a pittance, and instead have generous performance bonuses. So a very expensive Vettle was let go, and a much cheaper driver with just as much potential (Ricciardo) because number one.

IMO Alonso can go to any team with a spare seat, his past indiscretions mean little when talent is the prime factor.

We are approximately half way through the season, and Ferrari need Raikkonen. They have a realistic chance of winning both the WDC and MDC. So Ferrari may be saying what is politically correct for them, supporting Raikkonen. That is the public noise, but behind the scene all kinds of sculduggery may be going on.

Precisely this. It's amazing how few people get this or will even accept it when confronted with it. Most people really believe that the public noise emitted by key F1 figures week in and week out is the actual truth of what's happening. There's often a small kernel of truth in there, but even then it's not usually what we'd think it is and it's probably not going to be where we'd look for it. These guys live between the lines. They're not going to tell you what they're up to!

_________________
On Twitter, follow me @GPAmericas for all the latest breaking news and current photos...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:41 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:41 am
Posts: 615
Location: Toronto, Canada
The only way Alonso ends up back in red is if Vettel decides to leave Ferrari and they can't get Verstappen for next year. Then and only then does Alonso return to Ferrari. It's not as complicated as everyone makes it out to be. And this is all IF Vettel decides to leave. Which you'd have to ask, why on earth would he do that?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 5744
Location: Nebraska, USA
ReservoirDog wrote:
I don't know why this keeps getting brought up.

I can't think of a single reason Ferrari would hire Alonso. This is a non-issue really.


Perhaps you might want to give it more thought....

I can give you one very good reason... he is... arguably... the best driver in the current F1 field.

i am not saying that he will end up with Ferrari, but if he did, I cannot think of a better reason than hiring the best.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 4272
Location: Michigan, USA
ReservoirDog wrote:
I don't know why this keeps getting brought up.

I can't think of a single reason Ferrari would hire Alonso. This is a non-issue really.

Here's a single reason: can you imagine Alonso having the same brain-fade Vettel did in Baku and throwing away that win?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2017: Don't Ask| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
Wins: 3 | Podiums: 11

PF1 Top Three Constructor's Championship
2015 (No Limit Excedrin Racing): CHAMPIONS


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 7:52 pm
Posts: 678
Exediron wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I don't know why this keeps getting brought up.

I can't think of a single reason Ferrari would hire Alonso. This is a non-issue really.

Here's a single reason: can you imagine Alonso having the same brain-fade Vettel did in Baku and throwing away that win?

Not in a million years.

_________________
On Twitter, follow me @GPAmericas for all the latest breaking news and current photos...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:43 am
Posts: 112
Kimi is out and Ferrari would have to be after Daniel or Max with Daniel being the favourite for a few reasons. This is why they aren't interested.

Edit: Sebastian is waiting to see who his new driver is before he agrees to a multi year contract


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:38 pm
Posts: 1504
Location: Miami, Florida
oz_karter wrote:
Wouldn't be the first time a team has claimed the exact opposite of what is happening behind closed doors.

In saying that, I'm not convinced Alonso will pop up at Ferrari. I think he will leave McLaren, but exactly which seat he lands in is very unclear.

How about this scenario… "IF" Fiat ends up entering Alfa Romeo into F1 (rumors of another Italian team are growing legs), who better than Alonso to lead the, well… EVERYTHING.
The sponsorship that would flock to such a team for both the legendary brand AND arguably the best driver of this generation would mean such a team would have an excellent budget boost to compliment what would likely already be a healthy one, AND an instant fanbase.

And the same goes for any major automotive brand entering F1. VW has already shown interest in him and I don't think Aston Martin would have any qualms having a guy named Fernando Alonso leading a team they are associated with in any capacity. The new leadership is creating a much improved climate in the sport and in under a year they have set so many positives in motion, that it seems many folks can't remember them all, even though many of them may play a role in the musical chairs that happens at the end of every F1 season.

_________________
HAMILTON :: VETTEL :: ROSBERG :: RAIKKONEN :: VERSTAPPEN :: SAINZ :: MASSA :: BOTTAS :: NASR
ALONSO :: BUTTON :: PEREZ :: RICCIARDO :: GROSJEAN :: KVYAT :: HULKENBERG :: MALDONADO
THE REST… THERE ARE FAR BETTER DRIVERS THAT SHOULD BE IN FORMULA 1


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:43 am
Posts: 112
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
oz_karter wrote:
Wouldn't be the first time a team has claimed the exact opposite of what is happening behind closed doors.

In saying that, I'm not convinced Alonso will pop up at Ferrari. I think he will leave McLaren, but exactly which seat he lands in is very unclear.

How about this scenario… "IF" Fiat ends up entering Alfa Romeo into F1 (rumors of another Italian team are growing legs), who better than Alonso to lead the, well… EVERYTHING.
The sponsorship that would flock to such a team for both the legendary brand AND arguably the best driver of this generation would mean such a team would have an excellent budget boost to compliment what would likely already be a healthy one, AND an instant fanbase.

And the same goes for any major automotive brand entering F1. VW has already shown interest in him and I don't think Aston Martin would have any qualms having a guy named Fernando Alonso leading a team they are associated with in any capacity. The new leadership is creating a much improved climate in the sport and in under a year they have set so many positives in motion, that it seems many folks can't remember them all, even though many of them may play a role in the musical chairs that happens at the end of every F1 season.


Yeah but Alonso said he wants to win. His 'project' days are done.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:14 pm
Posts: 2762
I think Marchionne is just being political and won't show his cards just yet. I think Alonso has a very good chance to be back at Ferrari. It just makes too much sense. Ferrari must understand that it takes 2 strong drivers if they want to win the constructors championships from Merc. Merc's driver lineup is pretty strong, but Alonso and Vettel would undoubtedly be stronger, if they can work together... Signing anyone else besides Alonso is risky and may not match up to what Merc has. Having Vettel and Alonso in the team would make them an untouchable pairing and if the car is as good as this year's, they would walk away with the constructors. They just have to ensure that both Vettel and Alonso understand that they are part of a team, and I don't see that being an issue, as they are both mature men who have been through many teammates before. They would make it work.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:40 pm
Posts: 6529
hairy_scotsman wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Formula One is a result-driven business. Wins, championships, and good results are the fuel that drives any team forward. You may have the most charismatic driver in the universe, but if he does not produce results, it is all in vain. I mentioned the word "business" because this is very relevant. Teams look at drivers and situations not emotionally, but from a very cold and calculating viewpoint.

There is a lot going on within the Formula One community, little we ever hear of. Drivers constantly communicate with other teams, and vice versa with the intent of feeling each other out, and exploring options. Every so often Eddie Jordan may get a tidbit and spill the beans, but Formula One has big ears and the grapevine(s) is intense. Mechanics talk to other mechanics, team principles talk to each other, the word of anything big spreads very quickly.

So unfortunately, we the fans get very little of the true picture,most of it is a landscape of fantasy painted by some pundit who mows little and has a huge imagination. As far as temperamental or difficult driver,s the sport has always had them and currently has a full larder. But when a team and driver do decide to agree on a contract, those can be lengthly and full of penalty and release clauses.

And forget any Red Bull driver going anywhere in the near future, Red Bull know how to keep their drivers within the organization. Of course Vettel was an exception, but he wanted to go, and with his four time WDC status, was asking more than the organization was willing to pay. Red Bull usually pay their drivers a pittance, and instead have generous performance bonuses. So a very expensive Vettle was let go, and a much cheaper driver with just as much potential (Ricciardo) because number one.

IMO Alonso can go to any team with a spare seat, his past indiscretions mean little when talent is the prime factor.

We are approximately half way through the season, and Ferrari need Raikkonen. They have a realistic chance of winning both the WDC and MDC. So Ferrari may be saying what is politically correct for them, supporting Raikkonen. That is the public noise, but behind the scene all kinds of sculduggery may be going on.

Precisely this. It's amazing how few people get this or will even accept it when confronted with it. Most people really believe that the public noise emitted by key F1 figures week in and week out is the actual truth of what's happening. There's often a small kernel of truth in there, but even then it's not usually what we'd think it is and it's probably not going to be where we'd look for it. These guys live between the lines. They're not going to tell you what they're up to!

Yeah, but on the other hand you would expect Kimi, who is the most senior driver on the grid, to also be one of these guys who live between the lines. He is not naive to really believe in the public noise. So Ferrari may be saying what being political correct for them to support of Kimi... but not for Kimi's ears in that case. Look, he knows that such would be worthless. They kicked him out of his contract back then when he was young and the reigning WDC, for Alonso. And they have been deciding about keeping him on yearly bases, lately.

Otherwise a businessman saying "not interested" may simply mean "we may negotiate". Ferrari have upper hand in it over Alonso this time about - the competitive car and a multiple WDC leading the Championship a half of the season in.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:56 pm
Posts: 850
Pullrod wrote:
I am sorry but ALO doesn't hold the cards and will certainly not be the first pick.
ALO will get a seat ONLY if HAM or VET does a ROS and quit before the end of their contract.
It has been 3 years now that ALO told us that he could go wherever he wanted. But it is not happening. And I have predicted it 2/3 years ago.


That's my take on it too. Hamilton and Vettel will be with their respective teams for a few more seasons and neither will accept Alonso as a teammate, which means that Fernando is out of the running. It would take some very unusual event, such as one of the leading drivers getting injured or retiring to change the circumstances. I think Sainz going to Ferrari makes a lot of sense right now while Mercedes is not going to part with Bottas after he has proven his value.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:04 am
Posts: 1764
The only reason I could see is the way Alonso left and what he said about the team after he left them.
They have proven him wrong and are back to battling for title, but that must leave little bitter taste if you are a team owner.

But if Alonso is available, I mean really available, I can see Ferrari signing him back even with Vettel being in team. But this will happen if they cant wiggle out Max from his Redbull contract which goes through to the end of 2019.

I dont think anyone else is good enough for Ferrari at the moment. Definitely not Perez or Sainz. Sorry, I know there are fans of these 2 drivers out there, but neither IMHO they are not Top 2 team material. Not yet at least.

Hulkenberg would have been my choice had they managed to grab him for this year instead of extending Kimi's contract. But now he has long term deal with Renault and not sure if they will release him.

If they want to throw wild card in there, might as well promote their junior driver for a change.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:04 pm
Posts: 668
funkymonkey wrote:
The only reason I could see is the way Alonso left and what he said about the team after he left them.
They have proven him wrong and are back to battling for title, but that must leave little bitter taste if you are a team owner.

But if Alonso is available, I mean really available, I can see Ferrari signing him back even with Vettel being in team. But this will happen if they cant wiggle out Max from his Redbull contract which goes through to the end of 2019.

I dont think anyone else is good enough for Ferrari at the moment. Definitely not Perez or Sainz. Sorry, I know there are fans of these 2 drivers out there, but neither IMHO they are not Top 2 team material. Not yet at least.

Hulkenberg would have been my choice had they managed to grab him for this year instead of extending Kimi's contract. But now he has long term deal with Renault and not sure if they will release him.

If they want to throw wild card in there, might as well promote their junior driver for a change.


No idea why you think VES is top 2 team material and Sainz and Perez are not.
Do you base your judgement on the number of fans he has from his country?
VES driving is so childish at the moment that alongside HAM or VET he will just self destruct.
He will be a possible WDC in the future but as of now, he will not touch either HAM or VET.
Give Sainz or Perez a chance before judging them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 20576
funkymonkey wrote:
The only reason I could see is the way Alonso left and what he said about the team after he left them.
They have proven him wrong and are back to battling for title, but that must leave little bitter taste if you are a team owner.

But if Alonso is available, I mean really available, I can see Ferrari signing him back even with Vettel being in team. But this will happen if they cant wiggle out Max from his Redbull contract which goes through to the end of 2019.

I dont think anyone else is good enough for Ferrari at the moment. Definitely not Perez or Sainz. Sorry, I know there are fans of these 2 drivers out there, but neither IMHO they are not Top 2 team material. Not yet at least.

Hulkenberg would have been my choice had they managed to grab him for this year instead of extending Kimi's contract. But now he has long term deal with Renault and not sure if they will release him.

If they want to throw wild card in there, might as well promote their junior driver for a change.

If Perez or Sainz aren't Top 2 team material yet, they never will be. They both can hardly be classed as rookies.

Do you think either would do a worse job than Kimi? He's costing Ferrari the WCC at the moment with his lacklustre performances. I don't get why Perez isn't good enough for Ferrari, but Hulkenberg is? Perez compared very favourably against Hulk when the two were team mates.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:04 am
Posts: 1764
Zoue wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
The only reason I could see is the way Alonso left and what he said about the team after he left them.
They have proven him wrong and are back to battling for title, but that must leave little bitter taste if you are a team owner.

But if Alonso is available, I mean really available, I can see Ferrari signing him back even with Vettel being in team. But this will happen if they cant wiggle out Max from his Redbull contract which goes through to the end of 2019.

I dont think anyone else is good enough for Ferrari at the moment. Definitely not Perez or Sainz. Sorry, I know there are fans of these 2 drivers out there, but neither IMHO they are not Top 2 team material. Not yet at least.

Hulkenberg would have been my choice had they managed to grab him for this year instead of extending Kimi's contract. But now he has long term deal with Renault and not sure if they will release him.

If they want to throw wild card in there, might as well promote their junior driver for a change.

If Perez or Sainz aren't Top 2 team material yet, they never will be. They both can hardly be classed as rookies.

Do you think either would do a worse job than Kimi? He's costing Ferrari the WCC at the moment with his lacklustre performances. I don't get why Perez isn't good enough for Ferrari, but Hulkenberg is? Perez compared very favourably against Hulk when the two were team mates.


Perez is done for me. He is as good as he gets and only in midfield.
I will give Sainz one more year. That's it.
Stats alone are not how drivers are judged. In entire paddock Hulk is more or less rated better than Perez. Perez has been at the receiving end of lot of favourable strategies and is good at long runs to maximise positions in midfield. We all saw what happened at McLaren. He got his chance, he blew it.

I even mentioned max because he was in the picture. I still rate Alonso higher than him. But max will be bargain even after you consider contract buyout.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 10591
Pullrod wrote:
VES driving is so childish at the moment that alongside HAM or VET he will just self destruct.


How is his driving childish, exactly? One scruffy Q3 session and one frivolous T1 where he got a bit lucky (Canada) are enough to discard an otherwise faultless season as "childish"?

_________________
Supporting all drivers with surnames starting with "V".

Proud member of the "It's Toro Rosso, not Torro Rosso" action committee.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 10591
hairy_scotsman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I don't know why this keeps getting brought up.

I can't think of a single reason Ferrari would hire Alonso. This is a non-issue really.

Here's a single reason: can you imagine Alonso having the same brain-fade Vettel did in Baku and throwing away that win?

Not in a million years.


I would have said the exact same about Vettel, until he did.
What happened, we know, what lies in the future is unpredictable.

_________________
Supporting all drivers with surnames starting with "V".

Proud member of the "It's Toro Rosso, not Torro Rosso" action committee.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 11997
funkymonkey wrote:
Zoue wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
The only reason I could see is the way Alonso left and what he said about the team after he left them.
They have proven him wrong and are back to battling for title, but that must leave little bitter taste if you are a team owner.

But if Alonso is available, I mean really available, I can see Ferrari signing him back even with Vettel being in team. But this will happen if they cant wiggle out Max from his Redbull contract which goes through to the end of 2019.

I dont think anyone else is good enough for Ferrari at the moment. Definitely not Perez or Sainz. Sorry, I know there are fans of these 2 drivers out there, but neither IMHO they are not Top 2 team material. Not yet at least.

Hulkenberg would have been my choice had they managed to grab him for this year instead of extending Kimi's contract. But now he has long term deal with Renault and not sure if they will release him.

If they want to throw wild card in there, might as well promote their junior driver for a change.

If Perez or Sainz aren't Top 2 team material yet, they never will be. They both can hardly be classed as rookies.

Do you think either would do a worse job than Kimi? He's costing Ferrari the WCC at the moment with his lacklustre performances. I don't get why Perez isn't good enough for Ferrari, but Hulkenberg is? Perez compared very favourably against Hulk when the two were team mates.


Perez is done for me. He is as good as he gets and only in midfield.
I will give Sainz one more year. That's it.
Stats alone are not how drivers are judged. In entire paddock Hulk is more or less rated better than Perez. Perez has been at the receiving end of lot of favourable strategies and is good at long runs to maximise positions in midfield. We all saw what happened at McLaren. He got his chance, he blew it.

I even mentioned max because he was in the picture. I still rate Alonso higher than him. But max will be bargain even after you consider contract buyout.


Hulkenberg is not consistent enough for a top team. Compared to Perez his performances were way up and down and this season hasn't scored as many points as he should in the car he has.

I certainly wouldn't put him above Perez. I really doubt your "entire paddock Hulk is more or less rated better than Perez". Remember which one Renault went for first.

I don't think Perez is tier 1 material but I do think he'd be better than Kimi at the moment. He's massively consistent, has a knack of getting the big results when things open up for him and probably wouldn't be quite quick enough to worry the number 1.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:33 am
Posts: 177
Location: Adelaide, Australia
mikeyg123 wrote:

Hulkenberg is not consistent enough for a top team. Compared to Perez his performances were way up and down and this season hasn't scored as many points as he should in the car he has.

I certainly wouldn't put him above Perez. I really doubt your "entire paddock Hulk is more or less rated better than Perez". Remember which one Renault went for first.

I don't think Perez is tier 1 material but I do think he'd be better than Kimi at the moment. He's massively consistent, has a knack of getting the big results when things open up for him and probably wouldn't be quite quick enough to worry the number 1.


Agreed with all of this.

IMO Perez would be a decent fit for Ferrari, They need a Bottas/Rosberg esqe driver to keep those Constructors points flowing.

Although I'd love to see Ricciardo move over too but I don't see it happening. Ferrari have always liked a clear 1-2 driver setup and I don't think Vettel nor Ricciardo would play second fiddle.

_________________
Any and all opinions are my own, they do not reflect the opinions of the FIA, FOM, Teams, Drivers, PlanetF1, Phase of the Moon, Rotation of the Earth or Aliens.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 937
mds wrote:
hairy_scotsman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I don't know why this keeps getting brought up.

I can't think of a single reason Ferrari would hire Alonso. This is a non-issue really.

Here's a single reason: can you imagine Alonso having the same brain-fade Vettel did in Baku and throwing away that win?

Not in a million years.


I would have said the exact same about Vettel, until he did.
What happened, we know, what lies in the future is unpredictable.


It's almost like asking do you think Vettel will deliberately hold a team mate during a pitstop as a payback?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 11997
Rockie wrote:
mds wrote:
hairy_scotsman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I don't know why this keeps getting brought up.

I can't think of a single reason Ferrari would hire Alonso. This is a non-issue really.

Here's a single reason: can you imagine Alonso having the same brain-fade Vettel did in Baku and throwing away that win?

Not in a million years.


I would have said the exact same about Vettel, until he did.
What happened, we know, what lies in the future is unpredictable.


It's almost like asking do you think Vettel will deliberately hold a team mate during a pitstop as a payback?


Yes, I probably think he would.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:06 am
Posts: 6728
Location: Belgium
mds wrote:
hairy_scotsman wrote:
Exediron wrote:

Here's a single reason: can you imagine Alonso having the same brain-fade Vettel did in Baku and throwing away that win?

Not in a million years.


I would have said the exact same about Vettel, until he did.
I'm amazed. Have you forgotten Turkey 2010? When he is excited/frustrated, there's nothing that would surprise me.
Having said that, although he couldn't control his mouth and transmit button, defending against Ricciardo in Mexico last year showed tremendous self-control. Perhaps somebody should teach him to rant rather than retaliate.

_________________
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 10591
Fiki wrote:
mds wrote:
hairy_scotsman wrote:
Exediron wrote:

Here's a single reason: can you imagine Alonso having the same brain-fade Vettel did in Baku and throwing away that win?

Not in a million years.


I would have said the exact same about Vettel, until he did.
I'm amazed. Have you forgotten Turkey 2010? When he is excited/frustrated, there's nothing that would surprise me.


Turkey 2010 was retaliation to a perceived injustice? Really?

Up until Baku, the only thing that ever followed from being frustrated or angry was some cursing words.

_________________
Supporting all drivers with surnames starting with "V".

Proud member of the "It's Toro Rosso, not Torro Rosso" action committee.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:13 pm
Posts: 1019
ReservoirDog wrote:
I don't know why this keeps getting brought up.

I can't think of a single reason Ferrari would hire Alonso. This is a non-issue really.


Because he is a fast driver who consistently brings home results commensurate to the car?

So what are we talking about, a driver or a media reality star who has baggage?

Personally, the driver status is 95% of what I look for because the past history and baggage is inconsequential to what they are hired for. I fully agree with most that Alonso has a lot of dirty baggage in his past. But that being said, if we begin to examine most top drivers, almost all of them have tarnished their reputations in one way or another. IMO all of the WDC's from the last 20 years have messy blemishes.

That being said, I also believe that fundamentally they are all nice people when distanced from the business. They are not evil, they are not "bad", it is just that the insanely competitive and cut-throat environment of Formula One brings out the best in their skills but occasionally brings out the bad side of their behavior.

Teams have power and the methods to control drivers if they wish. The main instrument are clauses in their contract. Who knows, Alonso could have 50 thousand removed from his paycheck every time he publicly utters anything negative about the team or engine supplier. We will never know, and thus our perception on how the business is run will always be warped (and molded by the media).

_________________
Only dogs, mothers, and quality undergarments give unconditional support.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 937
mikeyg123 wrote:

Yes, I probably think he would.


Not surprised!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 1541
I do not think that Ferrari is looking into either Perez or Sainz. Their options are probably rather with Renault or Williams (if they move at all), or in Sainz case with RBR if one of their drivers leaves.

IMO, Ferrari is either looking for a No. 2 without aspiration and clearly slower than Vettel. Räikkönen fits that bill and given how long they stuck with Massa another year seems possible (although as a fan I would find that very lame).
Or Ferrari wants to secure the best option for the future. Then, hiring Verstappen must be the target. I am very sure that Vettel would not like that at all but I am unsure how much say he has in this. Verstappen, on the other hand, wants out of RBR, not 2019 or 2020 but now (i.e. for 2018). So, now is the time for Ferrari to go for him if they are considering him.

Verstappen is the decisive figure in this silly season IMO. If he stays put, we will not see much movement at all. When he switches, this may trigger a chain reaction with some more surprises.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 7:52 pm
Posts: 678
Prema wrote:
Yeah, but on the other hand you would expect Kimi, who is the most senior driver on the grid, to also be one of these guys who live between the lines. He is not naive to really believe in the public noise. So Ferrari may be saying what being political correct for them to support of Kimi... but not for Kimi's ears in that case. Look, he knows that such would be worthless. They kicked him out of his contract back then when he was young and the reigning WDC, for Alonso. And they have been deciding about keeping him on yearly bases, lately.

Otherwise a businessman saying "not interested" may simply mean "we may negotiate". Ferrari have upper hand in it over Alonso this time about - the competitive car and a multiple WDC leading the Championship a half of the season in.

Absolutely. Two great points that you touched on, and we were alluding to before:

- We don't know what the real message is or who ears it's intended for.
- It can be as simple as that this is positioning in negotiations with one or more drivers, or given SM's comments the same day about Kimi (and his comments about Vettel and the rumors around that relationship), it can be a message or different messages to Kimi and/or Vettel (or maybe even some other driver), Alonso, Verstappen, etc. We just don't know, and they aren't going to tell us until it's already done.

_________________
On Twitter, follow me @GPAmericas for all the latest breaking news and current photos...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23001
With all the rumours flying around I can't get my head around what exactly is going to happen these next 1 or 2 years.

First of all we hear of Vettel having signed a pre-contract with Mercedes which was assumed to be for 2018 but now we hear of Vettel only wanting a 1 year contract with Ferrari making him available for Mercedes in 2019 which coincides with Hamilton being out of contract.

This would kind of tie in with how Vettel seems to like to operate, it was rumoured he had signed a pre-contract with Ferrari whilst at Red Bull with also a performance clause tied in with his Red Bull contract, the performance clause first kicked in then Alonso decided to leave Ferrari and Vettel signed for Ferrari the very next day.

Then another rumour going about is Verstappen wanting to drive for Ferrari for 2019 along with another rumour of the 2019 Ferrari driver line up being Hamilton and Verstappen which also would put Vettel at Mercedes.

However none of this would put Alonso at either Ferrari or Mercedes, with the line ups there probably remaining the same for 2018, however would Ferrari actually countenance a 1 year contract for Vettel with him having one eye on a Mercedes seat with Alonso waiting in the wings willing to sign a multi-year contract with Ferrari, that doesn't seem likely?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:43 pm
Posts: 172
Location: Greece
Why is no one thinking about a Rosberg comeback with Ferrari? Now that's what I'd like to see!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23001
guardiangr wrote:
Why is no one thinking about a Rosberg comeback with Ferrari? Now that's what I'd like to see!

Because like Button he has retired.

I liken Rosberg's retirement to be similar to Hakkinen's who was a similar age, they basically both achieved what they wanted to achieve and they were both burnt out.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:43 pm
Posts: 172
Location: Greece
pokerman wrote:
guardiangr wrote:
Why is no one thinking about a Rosberg comeback with Ferrari? Now that's what I'd like to see!

Because like Button he has retired.

I liken Rosberg's retirement to be similar to Hakkinen's who was a similar age, they basically both achieved what they wanted to achieve and they were both burnt out.


That would be the case if he had said it is final but since his retirement he have said that he might come back one day ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:11 am
Posts: 881
Alonso didn't just leave Ferrari, he fell out with them.

He was angry at criticism of his driving because he felt it was the car and strategy calls (which cost him the WDC) holding him back. I'd say he was right in thinking that, but he reacted publicly to rumours of criticism within the team, and in doing so he burnt his bridges as he left. The culture at Ferrari is that the team is above any single driver, so now it would be a matter of pride not to let him return.

Alonso would have been wiser to leave amicably, without making public negative statements, even if he was right, even if he had reasons to resent some people at Ferrari.

If you took away the past issues, of course Ferrari could do with Alonso driving for them. Purely on skill, any team would improve with him driving for them. But that is not all there is to it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:40 pm
Posts: 6529
guardiangr wrote:
Why is no one thinking about a Rosberg comeback with Ferrari? Now that's what I'd like to see!

Toto Wolff suggested that Rosberg could return and join to Ferrari, but Rosberg replied that he really retired and is not coming back.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9534
Location: Ireland
guardiangr wrote:
pokerman wrote:
guardiangr wrote:
Why is no one thinking about a Rosberg comeback with Ferrari? Now that's what I'd like to see!

Because like Button he has retired.

I liken Rosberg's retirement to be similar to Hakkinen's who was a similar age, they basically both achieved what they wanted to achieve and they were both burnt out.


That would be the case if he had said it is final but since his retirement he have said that he might come back one day ;)

Who, Hakkinen? :o

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9534
Location: Ireland
pokerman wrote:
With all the rumours flying around I can't get my head around what exactly is going to happen these next 1 or 2 years.

First of all we hear of Vettel having signed a pre-contract with Mercedes which was assumed to be for 2018 but now we hear of Vettel only wanting a 1 year contract with Ferrari making him available for Mercedes in 2019 which coincides with Hamilton being out of contract.

This would kind of tie in with how Vettel seems to like to operate, it was rumoured he had signed a pre-contract with Ferrari whilst at Red Bull with also a performance clause tied in with his Red Bull contract, the performance clause first kicked in then Alonso decided to leave Ferrari and Vettel signed for Ferrari the very next day.

Then another rumour going about is Verstappen wanting to drive for Ferrari for 2019 along with another rumour of the 2019 Ferrari driver line up being Hamilton and Verstappen which also would put Vettel at Mercedes.

However none of this would put Alonso at either Ferrari or Mercedes, with the line ups there probably remaining the same for 2018, however would Ferrari actually countenance a 1 year contract for Vettel with him having one eye on a Mercedes seat with Alonso waiting in the wings willing to sign a multi-year contract with Ferrari, that doesn't seem likely?

Add the rumours around Ricciardo having signed a pre-agreement with Ferrari in the event Vettel leaves

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:38 pm
Posts: 1504
Location: Miami, Florida
funkymonkey wrote:
The only reason I could see is the way Alonso left and what he said about the team after he left them.
They have proven him wrong and are back to battling for title, but that must leave little bitter taste if you are a team owner.

But if Alonso is available, I mean really available, I can see Ferrari signing him back even with Vettel being in team. But this will happen if they cant wiggle out Max from his Redbull contract which goes through to the end of 2019.

I dont think anyone else is good enough for Ferrari at the moment. Definitely not Perez or Sainz. Sorry, I know there are fans of these 2 drivers out there, but neither IMHO they are not Top 2 team material. Not yet at least.

Hulkenberg would have been my choice had they managed to grab him for this year instead of extending Kimi's contract. But now he has long term deal with Renault and not sure if they will release him.

If they want to throw wild card in there, might as well promote their junior driver for a change.


Perez has accomplished more in lesser machinery than pretty much everyone with the exception of… Alonso, including Hulkenberg.
How anyone would prefer him over Perez is beyond me.

Sainz was every bit as good as Verstappen while they were together so if you rate Verstappen so highly, Sainz is right there too. I can appreciate if you want to hold his few recent lapses in concentration against him, but that doesn't mean Verstappen is much better. Remember that Verstappen escaped SEVERAL incidents because of the actions other drivers took to avoid contact. In my book the that doesn't add anything to your game, just your string of luck. And if we are to call attention to Sainz' few incidents in quantifying him a less capable driver than Verstappen, look at Vettel running up the rear of Hamilton in Baku. And he's a 4-time WDC. Stuff happens to and with every driver in this game of hundredths on the extreme limit. The moments in between where you yield good results is what is telling of the capabilities of a driver and even than that's clouded a bit because only a select VERY FEW have equipment capable of allowing them to shine at the very front.

I think Ferrari have several options to fill their 2nd seat aside from Verstappen and Alonso, but if it were me, I'd snap up Alonso and would promptly lay down the law that each driver will receive equal treatment and their mechanic teams would alternate from weekend to weekend so as to ensure they are each receiving equal support from the team, and the most important rule is that they not resort to infighting or trying to sway support their way because it's never going to happen, because the team pays their salaries. Otherwise they are 100% free to race one another hard but fair. I realize that's difficult to manage, but those are the terms you will be agreeing to if you want to drive for the prancing horse.

_________________
HAMILTON :: VETTEL :: ROSBERG :: RAIKKONEN :: VERSTAPPEN :: SAINZ :: MASSA :: BOTTAS :: NASR
ALONSO :: BUTTON :: PEREZ :: RICCIARDO :: GROSJEAN :: KVYAT :: HULKENBERG :: MALDONADO
THE REST… THERE ARE FAR BETTER DRIVERS THAT SHOULD BE IN FORMULA 1


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 10591
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Sainz was every bit as good as Verstappen while they were together


No. Sainz was and is very good, but the only area where he matched Verstappen was qualifying. That's it. Sainz isn't labeled as "less capable" than Verstappen because of a few actions now - frankly, I find it ridiculous that he's getting so much flack now, as he doesn't deserve it - but because he was solidly outperformed by him on race pace, tyre usage, overtaking capabilities, and what not. And that with much much less experience in cars - Sainz had done well over 150 races in 5 seasons of car racing, Verstappen didn't even manage a third of that. He didn't even do a pit stop before he got into F1!

What's more, but this is difficult to prove so more an opinion, I think Verstappen has developed way more than Sainz has since 2015. Which is not weird, since he was far more towards the beginning of his learning curve where you'd expect a learning curve to go steeper. So no, it's not because people rate Verstappen highly, that Sainz should be rated just as highly just because in 2015 he stacked up reasonably well.

Quote:
I think Ferrari have several options to fill their 2nd seat aside from Verstappen and Alonso, but if it were me, I'd snap up Alonso and would promptly lay down the law that each driver will receive equal treatment and their mechanic teams would alternate from weekend to weekend so as to ensure they are each receiving equal support from the team, and the most important rule is that they not resort to infighting or trying to sway support their way because it's never going to happen, because the team pays their salaries. Otherwise they are 100% free to race one another hard but fair. I realize that's difficult to manage, but those are the terms you will be agreeing to if you want to drive for the prancing horse.


Not only difficult to manage, but the amount of points each driver would take off each other would give the both of them a serious disadvantage if they are not in a dominant car.

_________________
Supporting all drivers with surnames starting with "V".

Proud member of the "It's Toro Rosso, not Torro Rosso" action committee.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:31 am
Posts: 1562
Blake wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I don't know why this keeps getting brought up.

I can't think of a single reason Ferrari would hire Alonso. This is a non-issue really.


Perhaps you might want to give it more thought....

I can give you one very good reason... he is... arguably... the best driver in the current F1 field.

i am not saying that he will end up with Ferrari, but if he did, I cannot think of a better reason than hiring the best.


He is the best driver, I agree. But that does not mean he has a place in Ferrari from their POV.

The question that needs to be asked is what does he bring to the team that Vettel doesn't. Putting it in different words - do they think it's possible Alonso may win a WDC in a car that Vettel may not be able to.

In fact, in a scenario where Ferrari is equal best to the other team, they will both take points off of each other, and, more importantly, I can't ever imagine Vettel or Alonso becoming roadblocks to aid their teammate the way Kimi's ready to do every other weekend, and most other drivers would say "yes" to just to be in a Ferrari.

So, if Ferrari is equally good to Merc, Ferrari would actually lose out if they have two top drivers in the team. If the team is slightly better, they will have two drivers taking points off of each other. If Ferrari is clearly better, Vettel is more than capable of getting the job done all by himself.

On top of that, there won't be any Vettel-Alonso politics. Alonso is a very dominating personality, who likes to have the whole team gel around him. Vettel also likes to drive the team forward and puts tons of effort into it (tire tests and stuff). He's not very dominating, but he can play dirty if he has to (vs. Webber Malaysia). There's no way he'd get away with something like this with Alonso, Alonso would probably smash his skull in. So having two alpha drivers in a team is a recipe for disaster.

Alonso also is in his twilight years, he'll get increasingly agitated if the car isn't up there. He'll be like "I am back to what I left 3 years ago". Nobody wants that.

Honestly, I can't see this working for Ferrari at all. And this is coming from a huge Alonso fan, btw, who'd love to see his get a top seat and at least get a couple of wins before retiring.

I must add - I think the perfect driver for Ferrai is Sainz. And in 2-3 years they should go for Verstappen.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:04 am
Posts: 1764
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
The only reason I could see is the way Alonso left and what he said about the team after he left them.
They have proven him wrong and are back to battling for title, but that must leave little bitter taste if you are a team owner.

But if Alonso is available, I mean really available, I can see Ferrari signing him back even with Vettel being in team. But this will happen if they cant wiggle out Max from his Redbull contract which goes through to the end of 2019.

I dont think anyone else is good enough for Ferrari at the moment. Definitely not Perez or Sainz. Sorry, I know there are fans of these 2 drivers out there, but neither IMHO they are not Top 2 team material. Not yet at least.

Hulkenberg would have been my choice had they managed to grab him for this year instead of extending Kimi's contract. But now he has long term deal with Renault and not sure if they will release him.

If they want to throw wild card in there, might as well promote their junior driver for a change.


Perez has accomplished more in lesser machinery than pretty much everyone with the exception of… Alonso, including Hulkenberg.
How anyone would prefer him over Perez is beyond me.

Sainz was every bit as good as Verstappen while they were together so if you rate Verstappen so highly, Sainz is right there too. I can appreciate if you want to hold his few recent lapses in concentration against him, but that doesn't mean Verstappen is much better. Remember that Verstappen escaped SEVERAL incidents because of the actions other drivers took to avoid contact. In my book the that doesn't add anything to your game, just your string of luck. And if we are to call attention to Sainz' few incidents in quantifying him a less capable driver than Verstappen, look at Vettel running up the rear of Hamilton in Baku. And he's a 4-time WDC. Stuff happens to and with every driver in this game of hundredths on the extreme limit. The moments in between where you yield good results is what is telling of the capabilities of a driver and even than that's clouded a bit because only a select VERY FEW have equipment capable of allowing them to shine at the very front.

I think Ferrari have several options to fill their 2nd seat aside from Verstappen and Alonso, but if it were me, I'd snap up Alonso and would promptly lay down the law that each driver will receive equal treatment and their mechanic teams would alternate from weekend to weekend so as to ensure they are each receiving equal support from the team, and the most important rule is that they not resort to infighting or trying to sway support their way because it's never going to happen, because the team pays their salaries. Otherwise they are 100% free to race one another hard but fair. I realize that's difficult to manage, but those are the terms you will be agreeing to if you want to drive for the prancing horse.


That is it though. I some drivers are only good in midfield teams. Some shine when they go to top team and some done make it.

Perez is in last category for me.

As far as comparison with Hulk goes, he might have more podiums than Hulk but Hulk had terrible luck and reliability in Force India in both 2015 and 2016. If I recollect it properly, Perez finished all races last 2 years and Hulk has 9-10 DNFs including one race where they couldnt even get him on the grid.

Sure Perez has done good job in Force India, but he never shown that glimpses of something special.

This is why I think he will be last thing on Ferrari's mind and they would and should look at all other options before considering Perez. I dont think he is championship material and I dont know if he will be reliable No2 driver on whom you can lean on in crunch situation while rubbing wheels against some of the top drivers on the grid today.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 4272
Location: Michigan, USA
Rockie wrote:
Exediron wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I don't know why this keeps getting brought up.

I can't think of a single reason Ferrari would hire Alonso. This is a non-issue really.

Here's a single reason: can you imagine Alonso having the same brain-fade Vettel did in Baku and throwing away that win?

It's almost like asking do you think Vettel will deliberately hold a team mate during a pitstop as a payback?

Absolutely, yes.

But you make a decent point; both of them have indeed been known to cost the team, although I personally believe Alonso has put that behavior behind himself, whereas for Vettel it's quite fresh.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2017: Don't Ask| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
Wins: 3 | Podiums: 11

PF1 Top Three Constructor's Championship
2015 (No Limit Excedrin Racing): CHAMPIONS


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bentrovato, Google Adsense [Bot], Kev627, Lotus49, Siao7 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group