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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:11 pm 
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moby wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Honda & Sauber part ways due to differences in the future directions of both parties.:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sauber-honda-engine-deal-called-off-935057/


Good move by Sauber. They are not strong enough to withstand the immense damage that a Honda engine can do to their team. McLaren is (was) a mighty team, now a shell of its former self.


Not such a good move if they dont make the grid one year, it it has been close for several.


Having the Honda boat anchor guarantees nothing.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:01 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
moby wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Honda & Sauber part ways due to differences in the future directions of both parties.:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sauber-honda-engine-deal-called-off-935057/


Good move by Sauber. They are not strong enough to withstand the immense damage that a Honda engine can do to their team. McLaren is (was) a mighty team, now a shell of its former self.


Not such a good move if they dont make the grid one year, it it has been close for several.


Having the Honda boat anchor guarantees nothing.


The McLaren with that boat anchor is already decisively faster than the Sauber with its last-year solution which is the best they could afford. The only thing that is guaranteed for Sauber is being the slowest team if they continue with that.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
moby wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Honda & Sauber part ways due to differences in the future directions of both parties.:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sauber-honda-engine-deal-called-off-935057/


Good move by Sauber. They are not strong enough to withstand the immense damage that a Honda engine can do to their team. McLaren is (was) a mighty team, now a shell of its former self.


Not such a good move if they dont make the grid one year, it it has been close for several.


Having the Honda boat anchor guarantees nothing.


Boat anchors are very useful in a storm :D


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:16 pm 
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mds wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
moby wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Honda & Sauber part ways due to differences in the future directions of both parties.:
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sauber-honda-engine-deal-called-off-935057/


Good move by Sauber. They are not strong enough to withstand the immense damage that a Honda engine can do to their team. McLaren is (was) a mighty team, now a shell of its former self.


Not such a good move if they dont make the grid one year, it it has been close for several.


Having the Honda boat anchor guarantees nothing.


The McLaren with that boat anchor is already decisively faster than the Sauber with its last-year solution which is the best they could afford. The only thing that is guaranteed for Sauber is being the slowest team if they continue with that.


Not when the engine wont start for a race.

Not when the engine blows up during the race.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:22 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
mds wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
moby wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:

Good move by Sauber. They are not strong enough to withstand the immense damage that a Honda engine can do to their team. McLaren is (was) a mighty team, now a shell of its former self.


Not such a good move if they dont make the grid one year, it it has been close for several.


Having the Honda boat anchor guarantees nothing.


The McLaren with that boat anchor is already decisively faster than the Sauber with its last-year solution which is the best they could afford. The only thing that is guaranteed for Sauber is being the slowest team if they continue with that.


Not when the engine wont start for a race.

Not when the engine blows up during the race.


Frustrating as it may be, I'd rather have the car that is capable of Q3 and midfield battles but is unreliable, than driving a rock solid car that's hopelessly at the back.

You might see it differently, but please tell me, what possible positive is there for Sauber with their current approach? They're surviving? They could survive with Honda. They finish races at the back? Well, if you set the bar low, then I guess I can see how you could be happy with that.

Anyway, we'll see next year.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:14 pm 
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Could this mean Honda is going to pull out of F1?

Shame they didn't buy Manor and turn back them back into Super Aguri...


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:44 pm 
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Bad move Sauber and I have no faith in their new owners

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:13 am 
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mcdo wrote:
Bad move Sauber and I have no faith in their new owners


:thumbup:

If they do not have a deal for current Ferrari-Mercedes-Renault engines including some financial support at hand, I fear we will not see them on the grid next year.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:11 am 
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Sauber have confirmed a multi-year Ferrari deal.
Whether that will be with current-year and updated engines or with last-year ones is unclear.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:18 am 
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mds wrote:
Sauber have confirmed a multi-year Ferrari deal.
Whether that will be with current-year and updated engines or with last-year ones is unclear.

Current according to auto sport!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:56 am 
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dompclarke wrote:
mds wrote:
Sauber have confirmed a multi-year Ferrari deal.
Whether that will be with current-year and updated engines or with last-year ones is unclear.

Current according to auto sport!


In that case, I take some of the above back - good idea then.
So, who is willing to venture that, given their financial situation, either one or both of Leclerc and Giovinazzi will be in the car? :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:03 am 
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Good move by Sauber...hope for them its a 2018 engine.

Honda must be finished in F1 forever surely?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:23 am 
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It better be a current engine

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:42 am 
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mds wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
mds wrote:
Sauber have confirmed a multi-year Ferrari deal.
Whether that will be with current-year and updated engines or with last-year ones is unclear.

Current according to auto sport!


In that case, I take some of the above back - good idea then.
So, who is willing to venture that, given their financial situation, either one or both of Leclerc and Giovinazzi will be in the car? :)


If you stick Giovinazzi in the car you best be prepared to take a lot of spares to races.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:45 am 
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Laz_T800 wrote:
mds wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
mds wrote:
Sauber have confirmed a multi-year Ferrari deal.
Whether that will be with current-year and updated engines or with last-year ones is unclear.

Current according to auto sport!


In that case, I take some of the above back - good idea then.
So, who is willing to venture that, given their financial situation, either one or both of Leclerc and Giovinazzi will be in the car? :)


If you stick Giovinazzi in the car you best be prepared to take a lot of spares to races.


I'm not convinced about him either and I don't really care if he gets a seat, I would much rather see Leclerc in F1.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:11 am 
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mds wrote:
Laz_T800 wrote:
mds wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
mds wrote:
Sauber have confirmed a multi-year Ferrari deal.
Whether that will be with current-year and updated engines or with last-year ones is unclear.

Current according to auto sport!


In that case, I take some of the above back - good idea then.
So, who is willing to venture that, given their financial situation, either one or both of Leclerc and Giovinazzi will be in the car? :)


If you stick Giovinazzi in the car you best be prepared to take a lot of spares to races.


I'm not convinced about him either and I don't really care if he gets a seat, I would much rather see Leclerc in F1.


The only reason I can see that Sauber won't have Leclerc and Giovinazzi racing for them next year is if their ownership want to keep Marcus Ericsson, which is quite possible. In which case I'd expect a Ericsson/Leclerc pairing.

Incidentally, if Ferrari give Kimi another year and Renault drop Palmer for Kubica, that could all lead to Pascal Wehrlein being left without a seat...

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:22 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
The only reason I can see that Sauber won't have Leclerc and Giovinazzi racing for them next year is if their ownership want to keep Marcus Ericsson, which is quite possible. In which case I'd expect a Ericsson/Leclerc pairing.

Incidentally, if Ferrari give Kimi another year and Renault drop Palmer for Kubica, that could all lead to Pascal Wehrlein being left without a seat...


I think his only opportunity of a seat next year is at FI. A shame because I think he is a quality driver but just aren't enough seats to go around.

So many seats up for grabs next year but if Vettel and Kimi stay at Ferrari just about everyone will be staying put. Especially is Kubica signs for Renault. The only seats available would be at Williams and Sauber.

And it would't surprise me if Williams retained Massa.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:47 am 
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paulsf1fix wrote:
Could this mean Honda is going to pull out of F1?

Shame they didn't buy Manor and turn back them back into Super Aguri...


Honda was a complete disaster as a works team the last time they tried. Today it's certain that they would be far, far worse.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:49 am 
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mds wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
mds wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
moby wrote:

Not such a good move if they dont make the grid one year, it it has been close for several.


Having the Honda boat anchor guarantees nothing.


The McLaren with that boat anchor is already decisively faster than the Sauber with its last-year solution which is the best they could afford. The only thing that is guaranteed for Sauber is being the slowest team if they continue with that.


Not when the engine wont start for a race.

Not when the engine blows up during the race.


Frustrating as it may be, I'd rather have the car that is capable of Q3 and midfield battles but is unreliable, than driving a rock solid car that's hopelessly at the back.

You might see it differently, but please tell me, what possible positive is there for Sauber with their current approach? They're surviving? They could survive with Honda. They finish races at the back? Well, if you set the bar low, then I guess I can see how you could be happy with that.

Anyway, we'll see next year.


As it is now being reported that Sauber will have a 2018 Ferrari engine in 2018, we now can clearly see that they were 100% right to break off from the feckless Honda deal that Kaltenborn signed onto. Launching her was the best thing that ever happened to Sauber.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:04 am 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
mds wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
mds wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Having the Honda boat anchor guarantees nothing.


The McLaren with that boat anchor is already decisively faster than the Sauber with its last-year solution which is the best they could afford. The only thing that is guaranteed for Sauber is being the slowest team if they continue with that.


Not when the engine wont start for a race.

Not when the engine blows up during the race.


Frustrating as it may be, I'd rather have the car that is capable of Q3 and midfield battles but is unreliable, than driving a rock solid car that's hopelessly at the back.

You might see it differently, but please tell me, what possible positive is there for Sauber with their current approach? They're surviving? They could survive with Honda. They finish races at the back? Well, if you set the bar low, then I guess I can see how you could be happy with that.

Anyway, we'll see next year.


As it is now being reported that Sauber will have a 2018 Ferrari engine in 2018, we now can clearly see that they were 100% right to break off from the feckless Honda deal that Kaltenborn signed onto.


Yes, the deal being with up to date Ferrari engines would be highly preferable. I was talking about their current approach and I stand 100% by what I said. Using outdated engines confines you to the back and gives no positives other than merely surviving in F1.

With this deal, now they can actually look forward.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:21 am 
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Toro Rosso Honda - McLaren Renault?

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 98955.html

Would be smart move by Red Bull IMO. Gives them the option of taking up a Honda works deal for 2019 if they get their act together.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:53 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Toro Rosso Honda - McLaren Renault?

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 98955.html

Would be smart move by Red Bull IMO. Gives them the option of taking up a Honda works deal for 2019 if they get their act together.

Wow yeah that would be a great move

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:55 am 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
paulsf1fix wrote:
Could this mean Honda is going to pull out of F1?

Shame they didn't buy Manor and turn back them back into Super Aguri...


Honda was a complete disaster as a works team the last time they tried. Today it's certain that they would be far, far worse.

That disaster designed a chassis so good that it didn't need to be updated all year and still won both titles

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:39 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
paulsf1fix wrote:
Could this mean Honda is going to pull out of F1?

Shame they didn't buy Manor and turn back them back into Super Aguri...


Honda was a complete disaster as a works team the last time they tried. Today it's certain that they would be far, far worse.

That disaster designed a chassis so good that it didn't need to be updated all year and still won both titles


With a Mercedes engine, which at the time was a class leading power plant. With a Honda engine, it was a failure.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:00 pm 
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Sauber probably didn't see enough in Honda to trust that they are going to be competitive next year. It is somewhat telling.
Will be interesting to see if Mclaren decides to keep Honda or not.
Toro Rosso Honda would make a lot of sense indeed, as they can learn a lot together without the scrutiny that comes from being a big team.
I'm surprised and disappointed that it appears that Mercedes refuse to supply Mclaren. Do they fear them that much? I can understand Ferrari not wanting to supply, as that would be far too strange. But Mercedes is being riduculous imo.
Unlike many I would like to see a Mclaren Mercedes next year. Mclaren Renault screams "weak" to me. Renault is only one step better than Honda in these current regulations. They are struggling with pace and reliability as well.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:34 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
paulsf1fix wrote:
Could this mean Honda is going to pull out of F1?

Shame they didn't buy Manor and turn back them back into Super Aguri...


Honda was a complete disaster as a works team the last time they tried. Today it's certain that they would be far, far worse.

That disaster designed a chassis so good that it didn't need to be updated all year and still won both titles


With a Mercedes engine, which at the time was a class leading power plant. With a Honda engine, it was a failure.


Well it never ran with the Honda engine...

With Honda backing and engine I'm sure the car could have still won, the chassis was the chief of the field and with development would have had the legs through the season.
The Honda engine back then was reliable and closer to the others.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:14 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
paulsf1fix wrote:
Could this mean Honda is going to pull out of F1?

Shame they didn't buy Manor and turn back them back into Super Aguri...


Honda was a complete disaster as a works team the last time they tried. Today it's certain that they would be far, far worse.

That disaster designed a chassis so good that it didn't need to be updated all year and still won both titles


With a Mercedes engine, which at the time was a class leading power plant. With a Honda engine, it was a failure.


Well it never ran with the Honda engine...

With Honda backing and engine I'm sure the car could have still won, the chassis was the chief of the field and with development would have had the legs through the season.
The Honda engine back then was reliable and closer to the others.


Did Honda even podium as a works team???

Edit: I see that they did and even won a race. I guess they were not a complete failure.


Last edited by Herb Tarlik on Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:15 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
Sauber probably didn't see enough in Honda to trust that they are going to be competitive next year. It is somewhat telling.
Will be interesting to see if Mclaren decides to keep Honda or not.
Toro Rosso Honda would make a lot of sense indeed, as they can learn a lot together without the scrutiny that comes from being a big team.
I'm surprised and disappointed that it appears that Mercedes refuse to supply Mclaren. Do they fear them that much? I can understand Ferrari not wanting to supply, as that would be far too strange. But Mercedes is being riduculous imo.
Unlike many I would like to see a Mclaren Mercedes next year. Mclaren Renault screams "weak" to me. Renault is only one step better than Honda in these current regulations. They are struggling with pace and reliability as well.


I too would love to see a McLaren Mercedes car again. I would trust Renault to do better, far far better in fact, than Honda. But Mercedes is preferable.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:59 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Did Honda even podium as a works team???

Edit: I see that they did and even won a race. I guess they were not a complete failure.

How on earth did you not know that? LOL

Had Honda not pulled out in 2009, they would have won both titles in even more convincing fashion. the Honda engine then was on par with the Mercedes engine and the advantage they had on one another pretty much cancelled each other out. Mercedes had the advantage in the low revs, Honda in the mid range, Mercedes had the edge in top speed by a VERY minuscule margin but Honda's bread and butter was in that mid-range because their mid range started earlier and ran further into the high-revs than did the Mercedes so that by the time the Mercedes got into the range where it was better, the Honda was already ahead. The Ferrari was about equal as well but the Renault was just a hair below all of them but it was superior in the low to mid range which is how it held it's own. The Red Bulls were usually among the slowest in a straight line but were able to propel their excellent chassis harder and faster through the slow and mid-range corners, and the more technical, tighter and more twisty the track the better the Red Bulls looked. It's unfortunate that Newey got ALL the credit for their success because their power plant played a large role. Even sadder to think when the going got tough they didn't hesitate to point directly at the engine rather than stand with them.

As for Sauber, they've just signed a multi-year deal to run current spec engines from 2018 onward. No more running under powered hand-me-downs for Sauber which is excellent news. The question for me is at what cost? And though the Honda deal Kaltenborn put together would have meant they'd be running a potentially troublesome engine (a great deal is going on at Honda currently that may result in great things), if they were to become their official works team, they would have received a significant influx of money that would have allowed them to do more with their cars even before inception of design. The car this year has not looked terrible by any means, but given they're running a year old engine that found itself at a disadvantage by the middle of last season, and is not being developed any further, one has to wonder just how much more could their drivers do if they had this year's unit in their cars. This new Ferrari deal will ensure they're running the same base unit that Scuderia will be running (Ferrari will enjoy the advantage, citing any new components must be tested thoroughly before they make their way to customer teams), but the cost might see to it they are just as cash strapped as they are today so the chassis may suffer in both initial design as well as the development program throughout the season.

I'll certainly keep my fingers crossed for them.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:36 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Did Honda even podium as a works team???

Edit: I see that they did and even won a race. I guess they were not a complete failure.

How on earth did you not know that? LOL


When you are my age, it's hard to remember a single event so long ago. Thanks for laughing at me.
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Had Honda not pulled out in 2009, they would have won both titles in even more convincing fashion.


Pure speculation on your part, unsupported by the facts. Rereading these three seasons, I see no evidence at all Honda was a contending team. They had a fairly decent first year, but slipped further and further back each subsequent year. Honda recognized that they were in over their head, had no chance at all of success, and promptly sold off the team.

F1 MERCENARY wrote:


As for Sauber, they've just signed a multi-year deal to run current spec engines from 2018 onward. No more running under powered hand-me-downs for Sauber which is excellent news. The question for me is at what cost? And though the Honda deal Kaltenborn put together would have meant they'd be running a potentially troublesome engine (a great deal is going on at Honda currently that may result in great things), if they were to become their official works team, they would have received a significant influx of money that would have allowed them to do more with their cars even before inception of design. The car this year has not looked terrible by any means, but given they're running a year old engine that found itself at a disadvantage by the middle of last season, and is not being developed any further, one has to wonder just how much more could their drivers do if they had this year's unit in their cars. This new Ferrari deal will ensure they're running the same base unit that Scuderia will be running (Ferrari will enjoy the advantage, citing any new components must be tested thoroughly before they make their way to customer teams), but the cost might see to it they are just as cash strapped as they are today so the chassis may suffer in both initial design as well as the development program throughout the season.

I'll certainly keep my fingers crossed for them.


A turd of an engine with money doesnt win you races. A 1st generation Ferrari engine gets Sauber as good of an engine as they have ever had. It's all up to them now. They can make with it what they can. If the fail, oh well. Sauber would have given it their best shot. If that takes the team down, again, oh well. Lots of teams have come and gone and that will never chance.

Best of luck to them.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:41 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Had Honda not pulled out in 2009, they would have won both titles in even more convincing fashion.


Pure speculation on your part, unsupported by the facts. Rereading these three seasons, I see no evidence at all Honda was a contending team. They had a fairly decent first year, but slipped further and further back each subsequent year. Honda recognized that they were in over their head, had no chance at all of success, and promptly sold off the team.

May be speculation but the quality of the chassis was proven as it won the championship...
With Honda not pulling the plug it would have been more developed by the start of the season and throughout the season this would have continued. Brawn and his team were much reduced once the takeover happened and the final pre season development was messed up sticking a Merc in the back, keeping it with the Honda (which was well regarded then) would have allowed more development time again.

People are being too harsh on Honda due to their recent engine, which they are showing signs of getting on top of. Hopefully they have a chance to prove you all wrong, not guaranteed I know but I think it will happen as long as they make the grid next year


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:18 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Did Honda even podium as a works team???

Edit: I see that they did and even won a race. I guess they were not a complete failure.

How on earth did you not know that? LOL

Had Honda not pulled out in 2009, they would have won both titles in even more convincing fashion. the Honda engine then was on par with the Mercedes engine and the advantage they had on one another pretty much cancelled each other out. Mercedes had the advantage in the low revs, Honda in the mid range, Mercedes had the edge in top speed by a VERY minuscule margin but Honda's bread and butter was in that mid-range because their mid range started earlier and ran further into the high-revs than did the Mercedes so that by the time the Mercedes got into the range where it was better, the Honda was already ahead. The Ferrari was about equal as well but the Renault was just a hair below all of them but it was superior in the low to mid range which is how it held it's own. The Red Bulls were usually among the slowest in a straight line but were able to propel their excellent chassis harder and faster through the slow and mid-range corners, and the more technical, tighter and more twisty the track the better the Red Bulls looked. It's unfortunate that Newey got ALL the credit for their success because their power plant played a large role. Even sadder to think when the going got tough they didn't hesitate to point directly at the engine rather than stand with them.

As for Sauber, they've just signed a multi-year deal to run current spec engines from 2018 onward. No more running under powered hand-me-downs for Sauber which is excellent news. The question for me is at what cost? And though the Honda deal Kaltenborn put together would have meant they'd be running a potentially troublesome engine (a great deal is going on at Honda currently that may result in great things), if they were to become their official works team, they would have received a significant influx of money that would have allowed them to do more with their cars even before inception of design. The car this year has not looked terrible by any means, but given they're running a year old engine that found itself at a disadvantage by the middle of last season, and is not being developed any further, one has to wonder just how much more could their drivers do if they had this year's unit in their cars. This new Ferrari deal will ensure they're running the same base unit that Scuderia will be running (Ferrari will enjoy the advantage, citing any new components must be tested thoroughly before they make their way to customer teams), but the cost might see to it they are just as cash strapped as they are today so the chassis may suffer in both initial design as well as the development program throughout the season.

I'll certainly keep my fingers crossed for them.


I wonder what sort of 'Deal' they had to accept off Ferrari? Is it just a - Here is your engine, bye. (obviously with a bunch of tecs to run it)
Or a complete ' We will get the best out of the package even if it means modifying things' sort of deal, like gearbox, final drive etc.
Or did it include 'yes, here is your engine, and our driver to go with it'?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:33 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:

Did Honda even podium as a works team???

Edit: I see that they did and even won a race. I guess they were not a complete failure.


How in good god can you talk about the failure of Honda as a works team, yet clearly no nothing about Honda as a works team!?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:48 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:

Did Honda even podium as a works team???

Edit: I see that they did and even won a race. I guess they were not a complete failure.


How in good god can you talk about the failure of Honda as a works team, yet clearly no nothing about Honda as a works team!?

Because saying Honda are rubbish and can't improve is a popular pastime now


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:16 am 
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You'd imagine that Ferrari will be coming packaged with either LeClerc or Giovanazzi, if not both for a huge discount/free. It's the safer gamble in the short term, especially with Honda as they are right now, and securing the short term running of the team seems to be the aim here. It's a good deal for Sauber I think, though the potential pay off might not be as high as it possibly could have been with Honda.

Bird in the hand and all that though.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:23 am 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
You'd imagine that Ferrari will be coming packaged with either LeClerc or Giovanazzi, if not both for a huge discount/free. It's the safer gamble in the short term, especially with Honda as they are right now, and securing the short term running of the team seems to be the aim here. It's a good deal for Sauber I think, though the potential pay off might not be as high as it possibly could have been with Honda.

Bird in the hand and all that though.


There are other things too, like fuel supplier etc. If they get the full package it will be good, if they get 'half' the package it will still be a comparison to a team spending 10 times as much as they are.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:28 am 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Did Honda even podium as a works team???

Edit: I see that they did and even won a race. I guess they were not a complete failure.


Just for the record: Honda competed as a works team in 1964-1968 and again in 2006-2008. During those 8 years they won three races, which makes them more successful than Sauber, Force India, Toro Rosso and Haas.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:36 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:

Did Honda even podium as a works team???

Edit: I see that they did and even won a race. I guess they were not a complete failure.


How in good god can you talk about the failure of Honda as a works team, yet clearly no nothing about Honda as a works team!?


Oh pullleeeez. No nothing? Exaggerate much?

One feckless win hardly sticks in memory.

I do recall being very excited back then when Honda returned, only to be disappointed severely at how miserable a team they were.


Last edited by Herb Tarlik on Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:37 am 
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moby wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
You'd imagine that Ferrari will be coming packaged with either LeClerc or Giovanazzi, if not both for a huge discount/free. It's the safer gamble in the short term, especially with Honda as they are right now, and securing the short term running of the team seems to be the aim here. It's a good deal for Sauber I think, though the potential pay off might not be as high as it possibly could have been with Honda.

Bird in the hand and all that though.


There are other things too, like fuel supplier etc. If they get the full package it will be good, if they get 'half' the package it will still be a comparison to a team spending 10 times as much as they are.


Anyone who thinks Sauber is on the road to becoming even a remotely contending team is smoking some seriously powerful stuff.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:43 am 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
moby wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
You'd imagine that Ferrari will be coming packaged with either LeClerc or Giovanazzi, if not both for a huge discount/free. It's the safer gamble in the short term, especially with Honda as they are right now, and securing the short term running of the team seems to be the aim here. It's a good deal for Sauber I think, though the potential pay off might not be as high as it possibly could have been with Honda.

Bird in the hand and all that though.


There are other things too, like fuel supplier etc. If they get the full package it will be good, if they get 'half' the package it will still be a comparison to a team spending 10 times as much as they are.


Anyone who thinks Sauber is on the road to becoming even a remotely contending team is smoking some seriously powerful stuff.


Which is why they had nothing to lose by batting for a works Honda deal.


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