planetf1.com

It is currently Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:33 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
I'm not sure it's really possible to strengthen his standing over his teammate at this point. That's like saying Vettel strengthens his standing over Kimi by beating him.

I don't see any reason to think Alonso had a particular aim, aside from - obviously - setting the fastest lap. He might have wanted to prove the car could do it, to prove he could do it, to alleviate the boredom of running totally alone for the whole race, to get himself and/or Macca back into the discussion, etc. People complain about Alonso and his showboating, but the truth is, he's keeping Macca in the spotlight along with himself. If they didn't have Alonso driving for them, how much attention do you think they'd be getting this year? Alonso is the only talisman they have to ward off truly bring thought of as midfield. The anti-Alonso brigade may only see him glorifying himself, but I'm sure Macca doesn't see it that way.

No I was thinking more in terms of him scoring more points than Vandoorne, in hard terms the WDC denotes who beat who even though those that watch would know the true score.

What Alonso does may well bring more attention to McLaren but I wouldn't say that it's all good attention in particular to Honda, but the main objective is to get the attention on him so he stays as relevant as possible on the driver market.

I look at times were he bolts on a new set of tyres late in the race to try and get fastest lap, Button was in the same boat as Alonso but never felt the need to do the same, that's Alonso having fun, nah I don't believe it, Alonso is a very sharp individual and there's always an objective to the things he does, that's what I believe.


Button did the same a few times but always when out of the points, he was turned down once as well as there was an outside chance of a points finish if something happened in front, I think it was Russia last year. (Same as Alonso in Canada last year that Sky tried to turn into a quit request).

And Button usually tried the quali mode trick at the end of races just as much as Alonso regardless of their tyre situation, you'll notice most of his FL's in 2015/16 came in the last couple of laps after a couple of slow ones to save up the charge and fuel if you check that McLaren-F1 site.

Just no-one cares when he does it.

I've looked through the 2015 season and only once do I see Button stopping late in the race for fresh tyres but I don't see any banzai fastest lap, Alonso also stopped late for fresh tyres in the same race but not quite as late as Button and I see a lap 2 seconds faster than any other lap he manages, also 2 seconds a lap quicker than any lap that Button manages.

Then another race that season Alonso stops late for tyres and posts a lap 3 seconds faster than any other lap he manages and nearly 3 seconds faster than any lap that Button manages.


And?. We know Alonso has tried it lots of times, and he's got it before, I'm just saying so did Button a few times. Both with and without stopping for fresh rubber.

China 2016 is another he stopped for fresh rubber although he didn't say specifically he wanted the FL but to have some fun.

Checked China and again I don't see the sequence of slow laps and then a fast lap producing a lap seconds faster then any other lap like we see with Alonso were I presume he has everything on maximum.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mas wrote:
He qualified 8th behind Hulkenberg so the Renault is still ahead.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/head ... ngary.html

The fundamental point is that Alonso is not interested in being best of the rest but winning again like he once regularly did. I would say currently he has a better chance in Indy than any of the current 2018 F1 options available to him at the moment. I think he's currently holding out for a McLaren Renault next year because there's a theory going around that Red Bull want Honda as a second engine supplier for Toro Rosso to provide some sort of engine backup for the main team if Renault falters in the future.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-motor- ... KKBN1AG1CN

That's an interesting development, regarding Alonso he is only interested in the Indy500, Indy Car racing itself would only pay a fraction of what he earns in F1 plus the lottery nature of the races would probably not interest him, he got a taste of what a lottery the racing is in the Indy500 but that's such an important race he would put up with it.

What is more intersting is how from a statement in the article that McLaren has to come up with a competitive car to keep him(Alonso) you come uo with Alonso "is ONLY interested in the Indy 500" and that the so-called "lottery nature" of Indy racing would not interest him??? Where does the article say tgat? Am I missing something?

Perhaps your so-called "lottery" racing with a chance to win would be of more interest to him than racing where 6th place and a fastest lap is cause for celebration because it is the best he has seen in nearly 3 years.

I was replying to what the poster said and his own speculation regarding Alonso, it seems he can have his opinions about what Alonso might be thinking but I can't?

Also you seemed to miss the money part out of what I said, maybe that bit you agreed with?


Since you are placing a heavy emphasis on money, let's discuss it. For 2017 Alonso has the largest salary, at 41 million. Hamilton is 31, Vettel 30. So let us agree that he is the one laughing the most. I expect the argument "but he isn't in a winning car" to pop up, and this leads us into Indycar. I doubt if you watch very much Indycar, but while it may appear to be random, in the long run the cream rises to the top. The best drivers may suffer terribly as some races, but by year's end they are almost always in the hunt for the title. And one thing Indycar possess that Formula One sorely lacks is competition between drivers. In Formula One the order is fixed not by the driver, but the car. In Indycar, the driver does make a difference. And they get to enjoy constant wheel to wheel competition.

In achieving the fastest race lap, Alonso was probably posturing, proving to all that "he still has it", and this is one more bullet in his ammunition of contract negotiations. But more than anything (just my opinion) he did it because it's very rewarding and pleasurable. To put down a near immaculate lap, to extract the full measure of what the car can offer is what drivers yearn for.

Moneywise Alonso is laughing the most but like I said before he will earn nothing close to that in Indycars.

In Indycar there is more competition between drivers and the driver does make more of a difference and it's true the car sets the race order in F1, but with Indycars it's how lucky you get with the yellows that sets the race order, Alonso had a taste of that in the Indy500 were a drivers brilliance throughout the race can get wiped out by a yellow flag and then he finds drivers that never were in contention running in front of him.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3424
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
No I was thinking more in terms of him scoring more points than Vandoorne, in hard terms the WDC denotes who beat who even though those that watch would know the true score.

What Alonso does may well bring more attention to McLaren but I wouldn't say that it's all good attention in particular to Honda, but the main objective is to get the attention on him so he stays as relevant as possible on the driver market.

I look at times were he bolts on a new set of tyres late in the race to try and get fastest lap, Button was in the same boat as Alonso but never felt the need to do the same, that's Alonso having fun, nah I don't believe it, Alonso is a very sharp individual and there's always an objective to the things he does, that's what I believe.


Button did the same a few times but always when out of the points, he was turned down once as well as there was an outside chance of a points finish if something happened in front, I think it was Russia last year. (Same as Alonso in Canada last year that Sky tried to turn into a quit request).

And Button usually tried the quali mode trick at the end of races just as much as Alonso regardless of their tyre situation, you'll notice most of his FL's in 2015/16 came in the last couple of laps after a couple of slow ones to save up the charge and fuel if you check that McLaren-F1 site.

Just no-one cares when he does it.

I've looked through the 2015 season and only once do I see Button stopping late in the race for fresh tyres but I don't see any banzai fastest lap, Alonso also stopped late for fresh tyres in the same race but not quite as late as Button and I see a lap 2 seconds faster than any other lap he manages, also 2 seconds a lap quicker than any lap that Button manages.

Then another race that season Alonso stops late for tyres and posts a lap 3 seconds faster than any other lap he manages and nearly 3 seconds faster than any lap that Button manages.


And?. We know Alonso has tried it lots of times, and he's got it before, I'm just saying so did Button a few times. Both with and without stopping for fresh rubber.

China 2016 is another he stopped for fresh rubber although he didn't say specifically he wanted the FL but to have some fun.

Checked China and again I don't see the sequence of slow laps and then a fast lap producing a lap seconds faster then any other lap like we see with Alonso were I presume he has everything on maximum.


Well I did say he didn't mention specifically going for the FL on that occasion. Here's what he said...

Quote:
“We tried to do a two-stopper – which didn’t work out – so then we decided to fit the Option for the final stint. Given our position just outside the points, we thought we might as well give it a go.

“Perhaps fitting the Option at the end was the wrong choice – I could have stayed out until the end on the Medium, but I decided to have some fun by fitting softer [ie, faster] rubber – but it just couldn’t make its performance last to the end. Still, as I say, it was worth having a crack at it.”

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2016/ch ... ce-report/

He was turned down in another race he was looking to have some fun as he was too close to the points but I can't recall where but If you're looking for ones with the slow laps proceeding some noticeably quick ones look at Russia 2016. Looks like he was trying it in Japan and Baku too. (Both 2016).

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Button did the same a few times but always when out of the points, he was turned down once as well as there was an outside chance of a points finish if something happened in front, I think it was Russia last year. (Same as Alonso in Canada last year that Sky tried to turn into a quit request).

And Button usually tried the quali mode trick at the end of races just as much as Alonso regardless of their tyre situation, you'll notice most of his FL's in 2015/16 came in the last couple of laps after a couple of slow ones to save up the charge and fuel if you check that McLaren-F1 site.

Just no-one cares when he does it.

I've looked through the 2015 season and only once do I see Button stopping late in the race for fresh tyres but I don't see any banzai fastest lap, Alonso also stopped late for fresh tyres in the same race but not quite as late as Button and I see a lap 2 seconds faster than any other lap he manages, also 2 seconds a lap quicker than any lap that Button manages.

Then another race that season Alonso stops late for tyres and posts a lap 3 seconds faster than any other lap he manages and nearly 3 seconds faster than any lap that Button manages.


And?. We know Alonso has tried it lots of times, and he's got it before, I'm just saying so did Button a few times. Both with and without stopping for fresh rubber.

China 2016 is another he stopped for fresh rubber although he didn't say specifically he wanted the FL but to have some fun.

Checked China and again I don't see the sequence of slow laps and then a fast lap producing a lap seconds faster then any other lap like we see with Alonso were I presume he has everything on maximum.


Well I did say he didn't mention specifically going for the FL on that occasion. Here's what he said...

Quote:
“We tried to do a two-stopper – which didn’t work out – so then we decided to fit the Option for the final stint. Given our position just outside the points, we thought we might as well give it a go.

“Perhaps fitting the Option at the end was the wrong choice – I could have stayed out until the end on the Medium, but I decided to have some fun by fitting softer [ie, faster] rubber – but it just couldn’t make its performance last to the end. Still, as I say, it was worth having a crack at it.”

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2016/ch ... ce-report/

He was turned down in another race he was looking to have some fun as he was too close to the points but I can't recall where but If you're looking for ones with the slow laps proceeding some noticeably quick ones look at Russia 2016. Looks like he was trying it in Japan and Baku too. (Both 2016).

Clearly that's just a case of Button just trying an alternate strategy in order to try and get into the points and not a case of trying to post the fastest lap of the race, I will have a look at the 2016 races that you mention.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3424
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I've looked through the 2015 season and only once do I see Button stopping late in the race for fresh tyres but I don't see any banzai fastest lap, Alonso also stopped late for fresh tyres in the same race but not quite as late as Button and I see a lap 2 seconds faster than any other lap he manages, also 2 seconds a lap quicker than any lap that Button manages.

Then another race that season Alonso stops late for tyres and posts a lap 3 seconds faster than any other lap he manages and nearly 3 seconds faster than any lap that Button manages.


And?. We know Alonso has tried it lots of times, and he's got it before, I'm just saying so did Button a few times. Both with and without stopping for fresh rubber.

China 2016 is another he stopped for fresh rubber although he didn't say specifically he wanted the FL but to have some fun.

Checked China and again I don't see the sequence of slow laps and then a fast lap producing a lap seconds faster then any other lap like we see with Alonso were I presume he has everything on maximum.


Well I did say he didn't mention specifically going for the FL on that occasion. Here's what he said...

Quote:
“We tried to do a two-stopper – which didn’t work out – so then we decided to fit the Option for the final stint. Given our position just outside the points, we thought we might as well give it a go.

“Perhaps fitting the Option at the end was the wrong choice – I could have stayed out until the end on the Medium, but I decided to have some fun by fitting softer [ie, faster] rubber – but it just couldn’t make its performance last to the end. Still, as I say, it was worth having a crack at it.”

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2016/ch ... ce-report/

He was turned down in another race he was looking to have some fun as he was too close to the points but I can't recall where but If you're looking for ones with the slow laps proceeding some noticeably quick ones look at Russia 2016. Looks like he was trying it in Japan and Baku too. (Both 2016).

Clearly that's just a case of Button just trying an alternate strategy in order to try and get into the points and not a case of trying to post the fastest lap of the race, I will have a look at the 2016 races that you mention.


Maybe but he clearly states he did it to have some fun which shows the kind of mindset they both had when not in danger of losing anything.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Lotus49 wrote:
He was turned down in another race he was looking to have some fun as he was too close to the points but I can't recall where but If you're looking for ones with the slow laps proceeding some noticeably quick ones look at Russia 2016. Looks like he was trying it in Japan and Baku too. (Both 2016).

None of those races did Button stop late to take on fresh tyres, Japan 17 laps to go, Russia 32 laps to go, Baku 17 laps to go, also we don't see the obvious slowing down preceded by a lap 2 to 3 seconds quicker like we see with Alonso like Alonso is fully recharging the batteries and putting the engine into qualifying mode.

Interesting in the Russian race we see another example of Alonso slowing down late in the race and then setting 2 laps 2 to 3 seconds faster than the lap previous and after the lap.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
And?. We know Alonso has tried it lots of times, and he's got it before, I'm just saying so did Button a few times. Both with and without stopping for fresh rubber.

China 2016 is another he stopped for fresh rubber although he didn't say specifically he wanted the FL but to have some fun.

Checked China and again I don't see the sequence of slow laps and then a fast lap producing a lap seconds faster then any other lap like we see with Alonso were I presume he has everything on maximum.


Well I did say he didn't mention specifically going for the FL on that occasion. Here's what he said...

Quote:
“We tried to do a two-stopper – which didn’t work out – so then we decided to fit the Option for the final stint. Given our position just outside the points, we thought we might as well give it a go.

“Perhaps fitting the Option at the end was the wrong choice – I could have stayed out until the end on the Medium, but I decided to have some fun by fitting softer [ie, faster] rubber – but it just couldn’t make its performance last to the end. Still, as I say, it was worth having a crack at it.”

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2016/ch ... ce-report/

He was turned down in another race he was looking to have some fun as he was too close to the points but I can't recall where but If you're looking for ones with the slow laps proceeding some noticeably quick ones look at Russia 2016. Looks like he was trying it in Japan and Baku too. (Both 2016).

Clearly that's just a case of Button just trying an alternate strategy in order to try and get into the points and not a case of trying to post the fastest lap of the race, I will have a look at the 2016 races that you mention.


Maybe but he clearly states he did it to have some fun which shows the kind of mindset they both had when not in danger of losing anything.

With Button it was a gamble on improving his position in the race which he says didn't work because the tyres didn't last, with Alonso it's simply him trying to set the fastest lap of the race.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3424
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
He was turned down in another race he was looking to have some fun as he was too close to the points but I can't recall where but If you're looking for ones with the slow laps proceeding some noticeably quick ones look at Russia 2016. Looks like he was trying it in Japan and Baku too. (Both 2016).

None of those races did Button stop late to take on fresh tyres, Japan 17 laps to go, Russia 32 laps to go, Baku 17 laps to go, also we don't see the obvious slowing down preceded by a lap 2 to 3 seconds quicker like we see with Alonso like Alonso is fully recharging the batteries and putting the engine into qualifying mode.

Interesting in the Russian race we see another example of Alonso slowing down late in the race and then setting 2 laps 2 to 3 seconds faster than the lap previous and after the lap.


I never said those ones were ones he stopped for fresh tyres. In Russia Button does a couple of laps in the mid 43's and then 2 high 41's before going back to the mid 42's he was at before the 43's. It seems obvious to me what he was doing and we see similar in Baku and Japan.

Could be lots of reasons why he's not getting as much out of it, fuel loads,tyre life etc..

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3424
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Checked China and again I don't see the sequence of slow laps and then a fast lap producing a lap seconds faster then any other lap like we see with Alonso were I presume he has everything on maximum.


Well I did say he didn't mention specifically going for the FL on that occasion. Here's what he said...

Quote:
“We tried to do a two-stopper – which didn’t work out – so then we decided to fit the Option for the final stint. Given our position just outside the points, we thought we might as well give it a go.

“Perhaps fitting the Option at the end was the wrong choice – I could have stayed out until the end on the Medium, but I decided to have some fun by fitting softer [ie, faster] rubber – but it just couldn’t make its performance last to the end. Still, as I say, it was worth having a crack at it.”

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2016/ch ... ce-report/

He was turned down in another race he was looking to have some fun as he was too close to the points but I can't recall where but If you're looking for ones with the slow laps proceeding some noticeably quick ones look at Russia 2016. Looks like he was trying it in Japan and Baku too. (Both 2016).

Clearly that's just a case of Button just trying an alternate strategy in order to try and get into the points and not a case of trying to post the fastest lap of the race, I will have a look at the 2016 races that you mention.


Maybe but he clearly states he did it to have some fun which shows the kind of mindset they both had when not in danger of losing anything.

With Button it was a gamble on improving his position in the race which he says didn't work because the tyres didn't last, with Alonso it's simply him trying to set the fastest lap of the race.


With Button he wanted to have some fun as well like he said and Alonso has said similar but he goes for the FL specifically a lot more than JB did no doubt.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
He was turned down in another race he was looking to have some fun as he was too close to the points but I can't recall where but If you're looking for ones with the slow laps proceeding some noticeably quick ones look at Russia 2016. Looks like he was trying it in Japan and Baku too. (Both 2016).

None of those races did Button stop late to take on fresh tyres, Japan 17 laps to go, Russia 32 laps to go, Baku 17 laps to go, also we don't see the obvious slowing down preceded by a lap 2 to 3 seconds quicker like we see with Alonso like Alonso is fully recharging the batteries and putting the engine into qualifying mode.

Interesting in the Russian race we see another example of Alonso slowing down late in the race and then setting 2 laps 2 to 3 seconds faster than the lap previous and after the lap.


I never said those ones were ones he stopped for fresh tyres. In Russia Button does a couple of laps in the mid 43's and then 2 high 41's before going back to the mid 42's he was at before the 43's. It seems obvious to me what he was doing and we see similar in Baku and Japan.

Could be lots of reasons why he's not getting as much out of it, fuel loads,tyre life etc..

Doing back to back 41's, his fastest laps, shows he wasn't going all out for a banzai qualifying lap like we see with Alonso were you have to slow down for a lap to fully recharge the batteries.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Clearly that's just a case of Button just trying an alternate strategy in order to try and get into the points and not a case of trying to post the fastest lap of the race, I will have a look at the 2016 races that you mention.


Maybe but he clearly states he did it to have some fun which shows the kind of mindset they both had when not in danger of losing anything.

With Button it was a gamble on improving his position in the race which he says didn't work because the tyres didn't last, with Alonso it's simply him trying to set the fastest lap of the race.


With Button he wanted to have some fun as well like he said and Alonso has said similar but he goes for the FL specifically a lot more than JB did no doubt.

I believe the fun bit for Button was a gamble on improving his position whereas with Alonso it's specifically trying to set the fastest lap of the race.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3424
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
He was turned down in another race he was looking to have some fun as he was too close to the points but I can't recall where but If you're looking for ones with the slow laps proceeding some noticeably quick ones look at Russia 2016. Looks like he was trying it in Japan and Baku too. (Both 2016).

None of those races did Button stop late to take on fresh tyres, Japan 17 laps to go, Russia 32 laps to go, Baku 17 laps to go, also we don't see the obvious slowing down preceded by a lap 2 to 3 seconds quicker like we see with Alonso like Alonso is fully recharging the batteries and putting the engine into qualifying mode.

Interesting in the Russian race we see another example of Alonso slowing down late in the race and then setting 2 laps 2 to 3 seconds faster than the lap previous and after the lap.


I never said those ones were ones he stopped for fresh tyres. In Russia Button does a couple of laps in the mid 43's and then 2 high 41's before going back to the mid 42's he was at before the 43's. It seems obvious to me what he was doing and we see similar in Baku and Japan.

Could be lots of reasons why he's not getting as much out of it, fuel loads,tyre life etc..

Doing back to back 41's, his fastest laps, shows he wasn't going all out for a banzai qualifying lap like we see with Alonso were you have to slow down for a lap to fully recharge the batteries.


We see him slow down for two laps, the 43's I mentioned, which happen to be the same as Alonso's recharge laps. The only difference is JB doesn't go as quick afterwards and does back to back efforts.

Which can be down to fuel loads,tyre life etc.. like I mentioned. We also have to remember Honda didn't have a proper quali mode until Spa and because of the small turbo had excess charge so back to back efforts are feasible, they were boasting of having the best ers around this time as well.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3424
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Clearly that's just a case of Button just trying an alternate strategy in order to try and get into the points and not a case of trying to post the fastest lap of the race, I will have a look at the 2016 races that you mention.


Maybe but he clearly states he did it to have some fun which shows the kind of mindset they both had when not in danger of losing anything.

With Button it was a gamble on improving his position in the race which he says didn't work because the tyres didn't last, with Alonso it's simply him trying to set the fastest lap of the race.


With Button he wanted to have some fun as well like he said and Alonso has said similar but he goes for the FL specifically a lot more than JB did no doubt.

I believe the fun bit for Button was a gamble on improving his position whereas with Alonso it's specifically trying to set the fastest lap of the race.


Maybe,maybe not. I can't speak for him.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
He was turned down in another race he was looking to have some fun as he was too close to the points but I can't recall where but If you're looking for ones with the slow laps proceeding some noticeably quick ones look at Russia 2016. Looks like he was trying it in Japan and Baku too. (Both 2016).

None of those races did Button stop late to take on fresh tyres, Japan 17 laps to go, Russia 32 laps to go, Baku 17 laps to go, also we don't see the obvious slowing down preceded by a lap 2 to 3 seconds quicker like we see with Alonso like Alonso is fully recharging the batteries and putting the engine into qualifying mode.

Interesting in the Russian race we see another example of Alonso slowing down late in the race and then setting 2 laps 2 to 3 seconds faster than the lap previous and after the lap.


I never said those ones were ones he stopped for fresh tyres. In Russia Button does a couple of laps in the mid 43's and then 2 high 41's before going back to the mid 42's he was at before the 43's. It seems obvious to me what he was doing and we see similar in Baku and Japan.

Could be lots of reasons why he's not getting as much out of it, fuel loads,tyre life etc..

Doing back to back 41's, his fastest laps, shows he wasn't going all out for a banzai qualifying lap like we see with Alonso were you have to slow down for a lap to fully recharge the batteries.


We see him slow down for two laps, the 43's I mentioned, which happen to be the same as Alonso's recharge laps. The only difference is JB doesn't go as quick afterwards and does back to back efforts.

Which can be down to fuel loads,tyre life etc.. like I mentioned. We also have to remember Honda didn't have a proper quali mode until Spa and because of the small turbo had excess charge so back to back efforts are feasible, they were boasting of having the best ers around this time as well.

What they actually do in qualifying though is fully recharge the batteries for one flying lap, the fact that Button did back to back 41s suggests he didn't do that, with regards to Alonso i dare say there is a safe level on the engine that he is allowed to ignore.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Maybe but he clearly states he did it to have some fun which shows the kind of mindset they both had when not in danger of losing anything.

With Button it was a gamble on improving his position in the race which he says didn't work because the tyres didn't last, with Alonso it's simply him trying to set the fastest lap of the race.


With Button he wanted to have some fun as well like he said and Alonso has said similar but he goes for the FL specifically a lot more than JB did no doubt.

I believe the fun bit for Button was a gamble on improving his position whereas with Alonso it's specifically trying to set the fastest lap of the race.


Maybe,maybe not. I can't speak for him.

Well maybe there is a clue in when he says his soft tyres didn't last points more to his gamble of improving his position not working, if his goal was just to set fastest lap then surely he pits a little bit later?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:25 pm
Posts: 364
Congrats to FA. It show Honda is making progress - for the lump to last race distance and to still have punch left at the end of the race. Doesn't represent that McLaren/Honda has pulled into real contention with MB, Ferrari & Red Bull.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3424
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
None of those races did Button stop late to take on fresh tyres, Japan 17 laps to go, Russia 32 laps to go, Baku 17 laps to go, also we don't see the obvious slowing down preceded by a lap 2 to 3 seconds quicker like we see with Alonso like Alonso is fully recharging the batteries and putting the engine into qualifying mode.

Interesting in the Russian race we see another example of Alonso slowing down late in the race and then setting 2 laps 2 to 3 seconds faster than the lap previous and after the lap.


I never said those ones were ones he stopped for fresh tyres. In Russia Button does a couple of laps in the mid 43's and then 2 high 41's before going back to the mid 42's he was at before the 43's. It seems obvious to me what he was doing and we see similar in Baku and Japan.

Could be lots of reasons why he's not getting as much out of it, fuel loads,tyre life etc..

Doing back to back 41's, his fastest laps, shows he wasn't going all out for a banzai qualifying lap like we see with Alonso were you have to slow down for a lap to fully recharge the batteries.


We see him slow down for two laps, the 43's I mentioned, which happen to be the same as Alonso's recharge laps. The only difference is JB doesn't go as quick afterwards and does back to back efforts.

Which can be down to fuel loads,tyre life etc.. like I mentioned. We also have to remember Honda didn't have a proper quali mode until Spa and because of the small turbo had excess charge so back to back efforts are feasible, they were boasting of having the best ers around this time as well.

What they actually do in qualifying though is fully recharge the batteries for one flying lap, the fact that Button did back to back 41s suggests he didn't do that, with regards to Alonso i dare say there is a safe level on the engine that he is allowed to ignore.


No it suggests he didn't run out of charge for whatever reason. And Alonso conspiracy theories about engine usage now?. Come on.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3424
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
With Button it was a gamble on improving his position in the race which he says didn't work because the tyres didn't last, with Alonso it's simply him trying to set the fastest lap of the race.


With Button he wanted to have some fun as well like he said and Alonso has said similar but he goes for the FL specifically a lot more than JB did no doubt.

I believe the fun bit for Button was a gamble on improving his position whereas with Alonso it's specifically trying to set the fastest lap of the race.


Maybe,maybe not. I can't speak for him.

Well maybe there is a clue in when he says his soft tyres didn't last points more to his gamble of improving his position not working, if his goal was just to set fastest lap then surely he pits a little bit later?


You're still trying to guess what he meant by have some fun, I already said he didn't mention specifically going for the FL.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:09 pm
Posts: 8522
pokerman wrote:
What they actually do in qualifying though is fully recharge the batteries for one flying lap, the fact that Button did back to back 41s suggests he didn't do that, with regards to Alonso i dare say there is a safe level on the engine that he is allowed to ignore.


Don't they "double deploy" in qualifying like the old KERS day. They used to get 7 seconds KERS per lap if I remember correctly. On the run to the start finish line they used to 4-7 seconds of it, go across the line and get another full quota and use that during the lap. It means you cross the start line at a much higher speed. I assumed they would do similar with ERS deployment now?

_________________
http://www.racefan.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:33 pm
Posts: 1898
Location: Colwyn Bay, North Wales
lamo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
What they actually do in qualifying though is fully recharge the batteries for one flying lap, the fact that Button did back to back 41s suggests he didn't do that, with regards to Alonso i dare say there is a safe level on the engine that he is allowed to ignore.


Don't they "double deploy" in qualifying like the old KERS day. They used to get 7 seconds KERS per lap if I remember correctly. On the run to the start finish line they used to 4-7 seconds of it, go across the line and get another full quota and use that during the lap. It means you cross the start line at a much higher speed. I assumed they would do similar with ERS deployment now?

As far as I know, the harvesting and storage are different now (harvesting is at least) so it might not be as viable to do that. There was talk somewhere, I don't know if in this thread or another, of McLaren actually having the best storage unit meaning their ERS actually had the best capacity for that boost. Although with the integration of power unit sections, nothing being manually operated with the hybrids, it might not be possible to control when the power is added into the drivetrain. It might also be an engine mode thing, which at least means the driver can choose which laps to deploy it on I suppose. But this is a lot more complex now than the old KERS button which just added another channel of power for a set time, as I understand it.

_________________
Organiser of the single most low-tech Robot Wars tournament in history, PM for details!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
I never said those ones were ones he stopped for fresh tyres. In Russia Button does a couple of laps in the mid 43's and then 2 high 41's before going back to the mid 42's he was at before the 43's. It seems obvious to me what he was doing and we see similar in Baku and Japan.

Could be lots of reasons why he's not getting as much out of it, fuel loads,tyre life etc..

Doing back to back 41's, his fastest laps, shows he wasn't going all out for a banzai qualifying lap like we see with Alonso were you have to slow down for a lap to fully recharge the batteries.


We see him slow down for two laps, the 43's I mentioned, which happen to be the same as Alonso's recharge laps. The only difference is JB doesn't go as quick afterwards and does back to back efforts.

Which can be down to fuel loads,tyre life etc.. like I mentioned. We also have to remember Honda didn't have a proper quali mode until Spa and because of the small turbo had excess charge so back to back efforts are feasible, they were boasting of having the best ers around this time as well.

What they actually do in qualifying though is fully recharge the batteries for one flying lap, the fact that Button did back to back 41s suggests he didn't do that, with regards to Alonso i dare say there is a safe level on the engine that he is allowed to ignore.


No it suggests he didn't run out of charge for whatever reason. And Alonso conspiracy theories about engine usage now?. Come on.

How do you explain Alonso being able to post a lap 2 to 3 seconds faster?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
With Button he wanted to have some fun as well like he said and Alonso has said similar but he goes for the FL specifically a lot more than JB did no doubt.

I believe the fun bit for Button was a gamble on improving his position whereas with Alonso it's specifically trying to set the fastest lap of the race.


Maybe,maybe not. I can't speak for him.

Well maybe there is a clue in when he says his soft tyres didn't last points more to his gamble of improving his position not working, if his goal was just to set fastest lap then surely he pits a little bit later?


You're still trying to guess what he meant by have some fun, I already said he didn't mention specifically going for the FL.

Then I don't understand why you brought it up in the first place in comparison to Alonso who clearly endeavours to post fastest laps?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
lamo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
What they actually do in qualifying though is fully recharge the batteries for one flying lap, the fact that Button did back to back 41s suggests he didn't do that, with regards to Alonso i dare say there is a safe level on the engine that he is allowed to ignore.


Don't they "double deploy" in qualifying like the old KERS day. They used to get 7 seconds KERS per lap if I remember correctly. On the run to the start finish line they used to 4-7 seconds of it, go across the line and get another full quota and use that during the lap. It means you cross the start line at a much higher speed. I assumed they would do similar with ERS deployment now?

Yes I believe they do. and this I believe is what Alonso does late in some of the races.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3424
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Doing back to back 41's, his fastest laps, shows he wasn't going all out for a banzai qualifying lap like we see with Alonso were you have to slow down for a lap to fully recharge the batteries.


We see him slow down for two laps, the 43's I mentioned, which happen to be the same as Alonso's recharge laps. The only difference is JB doesn't go as quick afterwards and does back to back efforts.

Which can be down to fuel loads,tyre life etc.. like I mentioned. We also have to remember Honda didn't have a proper quali mode until Spa and because of the small turbo had excess charge so back to back efforts are feasible, they were boasting of having the best ers around this time as well.

What they actually do in qualifying though is fully recharge the batteries for one flying lap, the fact that Button did back to back 41s suggests he didn't do that, with regards to Alonso i dare say there is a safe level on the engine that he is allowed to ignore.


No it suggests he didn't run out of charge for whatever reason. And Alonso conspiracy theories about engine usage now?. Come on.

How do you explain Alonso being able to post a lap 2 to 3 seconds faster?


It was 1.4s. And he could have looked after his tyres better,managed his fuel better so he could use the richest mix, he could have switched harvesting off to better mimic a quali mode and topped it off with simply a better lap.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3424
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I believe the fun bit for Button was a gamble on improving his position whereas with Alonso it's specifically trying to set the fastest lap of the race.


Maybe,maybe not. I can't speak for him.

Well maybe there is a clue in when he says his soft tyres didn't last points more to his gamble of improving his position not working, if his goal was just to set fastest lap then surely he pits a little bit later?


You're still trying to guess what he meant by have some fun, I already said he didn't mention specifically going for the FL.

Then I don't understand why you brought it up in the first place in comparison to Alonso who clearly endeavours to post fastest laps?


It was an example of JB putting fresh rubber on to have some fun when out of the points.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
We see him slow down for two laps, the 43's I mentioned, which happen to be the same as Alonso's recharge laps. The only difference is JB doesn't go as quick afterwards and does back to back efforts.

Which can be down to fuel loads,tyre life etc.. like I mentioned. We also have to remember Honda didn't have a proper quali mode until Spa and because of the small turbo had excess charge so back to back efforts are feasible, they were boasting of having the best ers around this time as well.

What they actually do in qualifying though is fully recharge the batteries for one flying lap, the fact that Button did back to back 41s suggests he didn't do that, with regards to Alonso i dare say there is a safe level on the engine that he is allowed to ignore.


No it suggests he didn't run out of charge for whatever reason. And Alonso conspiracy theories about engine usage now?. Come on.

How do you explain Alonso being able to post a lap 2 to 3 seconds faster?


It was 1.4s. And he could have looked after his tyres better,managed his fuel better so he could use the richest mix, he could have switched harvesting off to better mimic a quali mode and topped it off with simply a better lap.

All that means is that he was specifically targeting fastest lap of the race, Russia 2016

Button
47 - 1:43.412
48 - 1:43.335
49 - 1:41.910
50 - 1:41.720
51 - 1:42.352
52 - 1:42.781

Alonso
47 - 1:43.334
48 - 1:40.476
49 - 1:43.837
50 - 1:42.706
51 - 1:42.441
52 - 1:40.347

Clearly Alonso is doing something here different to Button

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3424
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
What they actually do in qualifying though is fully recharge the batteries for one flying lap, the fact that Button did back to back 41s suggests he didn't do that, with regards to Alonso i dare say there is a safe level on the engine that he is allowed to ignore.


No it suggests he didn't run out of charge for whatever reason. And Alonso conspiracy theories about engine usage now?. Come on.

How do you explain Alonso being able to post a lap 2 to 3 seconds faster?


It was 1.4s. And he could have looked after his tyres better,managed his fuel better so he could use the richest mix, he could have switched harvesting off to better mimic a quali mode and topped it off with simply a better lap.

All that means is that he was specifically targeting fastest lap of the race, Russia 2016

Button
47 - 1:43.412
48 - 1:43.335
49 - 1:41.910
50 - 1:41.720
51 - 1:42.352
52 - 1:42.781

Alonso
47 - 1:43.334
48 - 1:40.476
49 - 1:43.837
50 - 1:42.706
51 - 1:42.441
52 - 1:40.347

Clearly Alonso is doing something here different to Button


They both were yes, that's what I'm saying.

Yeah he's going quicker and not doing back to back efforts. You'll notice their recharge laps are nearly the exact same(0.001 difference) so are you suggesting Alonso with limited or no ers, full harvesting and fuel saving on a recharge lap still managed to be as quick as JB's normal race pace?.

Or were they both just messing around. I know which way I'll lean.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:14 pm
Posts: 2770
Tufty wrote:
lamo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
What they actually do in qualifying though is fully recharge the batteries for one flying lap, the fact that Button did back to back 41s suggests he didn't do that, with regards to Alonso i dare say there is a safe level on the engine that he is allowed to ignore.


Don't they "double deploy" in qualifying like the old KERS day. They used to get 7 seconds KERS per lap if I remember correctly. On the run to the start finish line they used to 4-7 seconds of it, go across the line and get another full quota and use that during the lap. It means you cross the start line at a much higher speed. I assumed they would do similar with ERS deployment now?

As far as I know, the harvesting and storage are different now (harvesting is at least) so it might not be as viable to do that. There was talk somewhere, I don't know if in this thread or another, of McLaren actually having the best storage unit meaning their ERS actually had the best capacity for that boost. Although with the integration of power unit sections, nothing being manually operated with the hybrids, it might not be possible to control when the power is added into the drivetrain. It might also be an engine mode thing, which at least means the driver can choose which laps to deploy it on I suppose. But this is a lot more complex now than the old KERS button which just added another channel of power for a set time, as I understand it.


So what is the overtake button for then? I always thought it was sort of an electrical power on demand button, similar to Kers, but more restricted obviously.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3424
kleefton wrote:
Tufty wrote:
lamo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
What they actually do in qualifying though is fully recharge the batteries for one flying lap, the fact that Button did back to back 41s suggests he didn't do that, with regards to Alonso i dare say there is a safe level on the engine that he is allowed to ignore.


Don't they "double deploy" in qualifying like the old KERS day. They used to get 7 seconds KERS per lap if I remember correctly. On the run to the start finish line they used to 4-7 seconds of it, go across the line and get another full quota and use that during the lap. It means you cross the start line at a much higher speed. I assumed they would do similar with ERS deployment now?

As far as I know, the harvesting and storage are different now (harvesting is at least) so it might not be as viable to do that. There was talk somewhere, I don't know if in this thread or another, of McLaren actually having the best storage unit meaning their ERS actually had the best capacity for that boost. Although with the integration of power unit sections, nothing being manually operated with the hybrids, it might not be possible to control when the power is added into the drivetrain. It might also be an engine mode thing, which at least means the driver can choose which laps to deploy it on I suppose. But this is a lot more complex now than the old KERS button which just added another channel of power for a set time, as I understand it.


So what is the overtake button for then? I always thought it was sort of an electrical power on demand button, similar to Kers, but more restricted obviously.


It is yeah, afaik. It overrules the preset deployment settings so you can use some of the ers where you need it rather than what the engineers have preset into the system based on where best to use electrical boost for ideal lap time but sometimes in a battle it's better to use it elsewhere so the driver can overrule it and use the allowance where he needs it.

That was how I understood it anyway, and I think it's similar to yourself.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 8819
I think Lewis did exactly the same at least in China and Britain this year.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Covalent wrote:
I think Lewis did exactly the same at least in China and Britain this year.

Yes indeed but then again he was winning the race so it wasn't an attempt as such to keep himself in the limelight.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 8819
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I think Lewis did exactly the same at least in China and Britain this year.

Yes indeed but then again he was winning the race so it wasn't an attempt as such to keep himself in the limelight.

Well the fastest laps were the only things missing from a grand slam, so I don't think they were any less vain than Alonso's.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 1547
Just imagine if Alonso had won a race - it would be only for the limelight and to show he is larger than the team. Heck, back in the old Renault days he even humiliated his team by winning the wdc twice! What an ego-trip!

:lol: :lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Well I guess I see this as an extension of what Brundle inferred about Alonso, it's all about keeping himself relevant, you think that Hamilton is getting fastest lap just to keep himself relevant?

Interesting you bring Renault into this, did he not accuse Renault of not helping him enough, that was sort of humiliating the team.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 8819
pokerman wrote:
Well I guess I see this as an extension of what Brundle inferred about Alonso, it's all about keeping himself relevant, you think that Hamilton is getting fastest lap just to keep himself relevant?

Interesting you bring Renault into this, did he not accuse Renault of not helping him enough, that was sort of humiliating the team.

So it's ok as long as you are not risking losing relevance by not doing it? Can we have a list of such drivers for future relevance?

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 503
pokerman wrote:
Interesting you bring Renault into this, did he not accuse Renault of not helping him enough, that was sort of humiliating the team.

Didn't Hamilton accuse Mercedes last year about something fishy on his side of garage.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well I guess I see this as an extension of what Brundle inferred about Alonso, it's all about keeping himself relevant, you think that Hamilton is getting fastest lap just to keep himself relevant?

Interesting you bring Renault into this, did he not accuse Renault of not helping him enough, that was sort of humiliating the team.

So it's ok as long as you are not risking losing relevance by not doing it? Can we have a list of such drivers for future relevance?

What extra did it gain Hamilton who won the race anyway, however as for Alonso people can't stop talking about it and that's why he tries to do it.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
robins13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Interesting you bring Renault into this, did he not accuse Renault of not helping him enough, that was sort of humiliating the team.

Didn't Hamilton accuse Mercedes last year about something fishy on his side of garage.

No he was just unhappy about changing his mechanics because it takes a certain amount of time to gel with them, he requested that his mechanics should not be changed again.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:14 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 1:05 pm
Posts: 6653
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well I guess I see this as an extension of what Brundle inferred about Alonso, it's all about keeping himself relevant, you think that Hamilton is getting fastest lap just to keep himself relevant?

Interesting you bring Renault into this, did he not accuse Renault of not helping him enough, that was sort of humiliating the team.

So it's ok as long as you are not risking losing relevance by not doing it? Can we have a list of such drivers for future relevance?

What extra did it gain Hamilton who won the race anyway, however as for Alonso people can't stop talking about it and that's why he tries to do it.

If Alonso is only doing it to look good then so is Hamilton. What other reason could he have when he's risking the victory on the off chance he makes a mistake?

Unless you think he's maybe... just having some fun by going fast and pushing, like a racing driver would? ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23144
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well I guess I see this as an extension of what Brundle inferred about Alonso, it's all about keeping himself relevant, you think that Hamilton is getting fastest lap just to keep himself relevant?

Interesting you bring Renault into this, did he not accuse Renault of not helping him enough, that was sort of humiliating the team.

So it's ok as long as you are not risking losing relevance by not doing it? Can we have a list of such drivers for future relevance?

What extra did it gain Hamilton who won the race anyway, however as for Alonso people can't stop talking about it and that's why he tries to do it.

If Alonso is only doing it to look good then so is Hamilton. What other reason could he have when he's risking the victory on the off chance he makes a mistake?

Unless you think he's maybe... just having some fun by going fast and pushing, like a racing driver would? ;)

What do you think looks better winning a race or setting fastest lap, I'm saying that Alonso does it specifically to keep himself relevant which judging by this thread he achieved his goal, Hamilton's motive wasn't to keep himself relevant, he's been more than relevant these past 4 seasons.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: Currently 11th

Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bacus, Black_Flag_11, Blake, Ennis, Google Adsense [Bot], inky38, Invade, Mayhem, TheGiantHogweed and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group