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 Post subject: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:14 pm 
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What are some opinions you have about F1 that the majority of this forum likely doesn't agree with?

IMO, Max Verstappen is already the best driver on the grid. I reckon he would beat both Hamilton and Vettel in the same car.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:27 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
What are some opinions you have about F1 that the majority of this forum likely doesn't agree with?

IMO, Max Verstappen is already the best driver on the grid. I reckon he would beat both Hamilton and Vettel in the same car.


You looking to start a fight :twisted: :twisted: (not just on this, but wait til they start on Kimi and Alonso)


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:31 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
What are some opinions you have about F1 that the majority of this forum likely doesn't agree with?

IMO, Max Verstappen is already the best driver on the grid. I reckon he would beat both Hamilton and Vettel in the same car.


I'm sure I light some fires with my opinion on Kimi. I think he is beyond one of THE most overrated driver in several generations. I think it's simply staggering how highly rated Kimi is and how there are an infinite number of excuses why he can't perform. Rave after race after race, season after season after season.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:39 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
What are some opinions you have about F1 that the majority of this forum likely doesn't agree with?

IMO, Max Verstappen is already the best driver on the grid. I reckon he would beat both Hamilton and Vettel in the same car.

Wow! Great example lol.

I am of the opinion that there is a massive chasm in ability/talent between modern F1 drivers by comparison to drivers from the golden age (prior to the 70s-80s). Been following the sport since the 80s and I think today's drivers are on a different planet from the likes of Fangio and Moss but some of the real old-timers will tear you a new one for saying that lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:54 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
What are some opinions you have about F1 that the majority of this forum likely doesn't agree with?

IMO, Max Verstappen is already the best driver on the grid. I reckon he would beat both Hamilton and Vettel in the same car.

Wow! Great example lol.

I am of the opinion that there is a massive chasm in ability/talent between modern F1 drivers by comparison to drivers from the golden age (prior to the 70s-80s). Been following the sport since the 80s and I think today's drivers are on a different planet from the likes of Fangio and Moss but some of the real old-timers will tear you a new one for saying that lol.

That's true for the vast majority of sports. It's all about context and what was known/possible at the time

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:54 pm 
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Are we really going there? Okey....

Alonso is talented but way overrated

Vettel better than Hamilton

Ricciardo better that Alonso

Kimi still has it.

Honda will be fast soon


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Senna was never going to win the '94 title

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:30 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:31 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Senna was never going to win the '94 title
That's an interesting one. Senna was certainly on the back foot leading up to his untimely demise but Hill did get up to genuine competitiveness with Schuey (notwithstanding all the technical shenanigans going on). I'd argue that Senna would have had a genuine shout, the longer the season went on.

OK, here's one. Jenson Button was not a great wet-weather driver. He had a fantastic feel for changing conditions but, when fully wet? Shown up by Rubens at Silverstone 2008, had a 'mare in Korea 2010, awful first half at Canada 2011 (which, to be fair, made the conclusion all the more spectacular!). Fully wet, little grip, sorry Jenson...

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Vettel will win the '17 title!

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:40 pm 
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I personally think we just can't consider Verstappen as the best on the grid when he's had so many retirements and we've missed what he may have done. (or what may have turned out to be a poor drive) But the fact it, we haven't seen loads of it. He's had too little track time for me to consider him to be better then Ricciardo overall. Verstappen this year also made a very costly mistake for his team by taking out his team mate so that would already make me think he wasn't the best driver on the grid. He may have been very good at most points we've seen him, but in the race that is what counts, I think there are several drivers who are better than him who have had more track time to prove it.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:00 pm 
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Ricciardo is under-rated and Verstappen is over-rated (at this early point in his career)


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Alonso is just as quick over 1 lap as his rivals.
Ricciardo has been the best driver of the Turbo era up until this year.
All drivers crave No.1 status.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:29 pm 
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F1 was more exciting when Max and Bernie were at the helm, there were always plenty of controversial things to discuss between races!


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:27 pm 
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ooh, i've got a load of unpopular opinions.....

The pitstop speed limit punish the driver too much so they don't gamble on an extra stop for fresh tyres. While i dont agree in getting rid of it, i do think it should be no less than 70 mph.

Safety is being pushed far too much. F1 is supposed to have an element of risk. Tracks now have too much run off areas and dont punish those who run out of skill and dont reward those who push it too the very limit.

Safety cars are out far too long for no reason what so ever.

Massa is by far the most overrated driver on the grid. He was only retained by Ferrari because of the accident and they didnt want the press onslaught if they dropped him.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:35 pm 
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cmberry20 wrote:
Massa is by far the most overrated driver on the grid. He was only retained by Ferrari because of the accident and they didnt want the press onslaught if they dropped him.


The most overrated driver on the grid now is Max. Yes he's good, yes he's going to be a big star but see the top of this thread for the biggest piece of hype I've ever read.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 8:53 pm 
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Great idea for a thread, let's see how long it can go without turning into a flame war! :thumbup: :o

* F1 cars should have canopies.

* Overtaking is overrated.

* Social Media is a waste of time and energy.

* Alonso would be leading the WDC if he was in the Mercedes.

* I like the V6 Hybrid engine.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:06 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
What are some opinions you have about F1 that the majority of this forum likely doesn't agree with?

IMO, Max Verstappen is already the best driver on the grid. I reckon he would beat both Hamilton and Vettel in the same car.

Wow! Great example lol.

I am of the opinion that there is a massive chasm in ability/talent between modern F1 drivers by comparison to drivers from the golden age (prior to the 70s-80s). Been following the sport since the 80s and I think today's drivers are on a different planet from the likes of Fangio and Moss but some of the real old-timers will tear you a new one for saying that lol.

That's true for the vast majority of sports. It's all about context and what was known/possible at the time


I also wonder ho many of these'wonderful' outside moves etc would have taken place if the driver thought there was more than a o.oo1% chance of them being hurt? 'Ah I have never seen a car passed there before' probably beans previous drivers thought it too risky rather than they could not do it

For instance, the Force India cars this week. A driver would never have squeezed another like that if it was possible or probable both would be off to the medical centre.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:21 pm 
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The Legend of Senna being the greatest F1 driver of all time is only so for the same reasons James Dean, Biggie Smalls, 2Pac and other famous people are so highly regarded,

The top 4 drivers in F1 are fairly equal, including Alonso but if all were in the same car Hamilton would come out on top more often than not.

Kimi is still a top talent

Renault should replace Palmer with Kubica effective immediately

Hulkenberg is a bit overrated

Kvyat is the best driver in Toro Rosso & Red Bull

Daniel Ricciardo IS NOT a late braking God :LOL:

Claire Williams is a Milf. (I have a suspicion that some will agree)

Toto Wolff & Nicky Lauda have brought NOTHING to Mercedes.

Jenson Button was never a Tire Whisperer

Sergio Perez is a top talent

Michael Schumacher is currently the greatest F1 driver of all time. (that can always be in jeopardy - Vettel and Hamilton may rewrite the books on that one)

Sebastian Loeb could still mop the floor with many top F1 Talents

Vandoorne was overrated from day 1, has to do a great deal better for me to think otherwise

F1 should bare ZERO relevance to Road cars

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:27 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Great idea for a thread, let's see how long it can go without turning into a flame war! :thumbup: :o

* F1 cars should have canopies.

* Overtaking is overrated.

* Social Media is a waste of time and energy.

* Alonso would be leading the WDC if he was in the Mercedes.

* I like the V6 Hybrid engine.

Have to say I agree with some of these. I'm not sure what way you mean overtaking is overrated though. Do you mean people get overexcited about what they think was an incredible pass when it was actually very simple? I often agree with this. Or, do you mean overtaking is overrated meaning that it isn't that bigger deal that there is a lack of it? I'm not bothered that there is less of it either actually.

Social media is a waste of time IMO during the race. It meant that people are not paying attention to what is on screen during the race while they are on the social media unless their eyes can focus of 2 separate things at the same time. I also think that this year, a few to many things are on social media related stuff that it feels like less is actually getting talked about on the actual coverage. The drivers such as Hamilton in the press conferences get way too distracted by this stuff also!!

I also like the V6 Hybrid engine. As I never have been to a GP, I have never really heard how loud the cars actually are. But I actually much perfer the deeper, more grumbly sound that they now make. That scream that they used to make was a bit annoying sometimes. This will be an unpopular opinion!


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:44 pm 
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Just because any driver is a very skilled operator of a racing car, that has zero impact on whether he is a wonderful or horrible human being.

Not all of the best drivers gravitate to Formula One.

The great majority of Formula One fans actually believe the driver is responsible for any car winning any titles.

Formula One does not have the best racing. (my personal definition of "racing" is intense, close and fierce competition)

The fastest and most innovative cars came not from Formula One but Can Am.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:11 pm 
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Just riffing off the top of my head....



Massa has never been more than an average F1 driver

Grosjean is highly overrated

Penalty's have been handed out for political reasons. Alonso in quali in Monza 2006 and Hamilton at Spa 2008 being examples.

Alonso is by far the best driver in F1 as of now

Rosberg did park at Monaco deliberately

I like Ron Dennis and always have

I don't rate Lauda in the top 10 of all time

F1 has damaged itself to much in the name of safety

The removal of gravel traps is the single worst thing that F1 has done to itself in the last 20 years

I like a lot of Tilke tracks

I don't find overtaking exciting in itself

I don't think the 2011 Red Bull had a big advantage and I don't believe the 2001 was the fastest car that season.

I think the best car fails to win the championships more often than we think. The difference a driver makes is often massively underrated.


Probably more lol


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:25 pm 
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Alonso is a good driver but he is overrated.
Hamilton's life is run by his strong complexes.
Verstappen is not the next superstar.
Vettel is the funniest driver on the grid.
Speed limit in pit area is an unnecessary thing and a total joke.
With current technology and transport, and all the money involved, there should be 25 races a year.
Vettel is the funniest driver on the grid.
Jochen Mass is 100% guilty for the death of Gilles Villeneuve.
Ecclestone sacrificed Brabham's (Lauda) 1978 WDC title by derailing completely legal fan car for personal gain with FIA, which eventually paid off to him.
Jabouille was one of the best drivers of his era, prior to his 1980 crash.
Nelson Piquet 1981 title was achieved with illegal car.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:36 pm 
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I suppose defending Kimi when he has a bad tyre day is not very popular after a while as I suppose others think he should have adapted by now after so many years of Pirellis but every year they find a different way to confuse the teams having now gone from cheese to concrete tyres in a year or so :).

Defending Vettel's 2014 season was not popular at the time but future events have shown that give him a car he's totally at ease with he can still drive like the wind.

As to what others have said ...

Verstappen you can make a good case for being the fastest especially in the wet but his driving racecraft is still subpar and impulsive and impetuous. Ricciardo is a much better racer against other drivers as he is more precise and much less likely to crash. I could go along with the theory he has been the best overall driver of the turbo era.

I actually think old time drivers were better as the cars were more primitive, harder to drive and had less driver and safety aids.

I thought at the time Senna was not going to win 1994 as he was going to incredible overdriving lengths to keep up with Schumacher in his dodgy Benetton. However I think 3 drivers now stand out in f1 history for sheer blistering speed and Senna was one of them with the other two being Clark and Hamilton. Which is why I can't go along with the theory that Schumacher was the GOAT and I think his time against Rosberg confirmed that for me.

Kyvat is clearly the worst driver of the red bull stable and should not have even been retained for this year as I thought at the time last year that it would be a waste of a young driver seat for this year and so it has proven.

The 2011 Red Bull in Vettel's hands was unbeatable.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:58 pm 
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moby wrote:
mcdo wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
What are some opinions you have about F1 that the majority of this forum likely doesn't agree with?

IMO, Max Verstappen is already the best driver on the grid. I reckon he would beat both Hamilton and Vettel in the same car.

Wow! Great example lol.

I am of the opinion that there is a massive chasm in ability/talent between modern F1 drivers by comparison to drivers from the golden age (prior to the 70s-80s). Been following the sport since the 80s and I think today's drivers are on a different planet from the likes of Fangio and Moss but some of the real old-timers will tear you a new one for saying that lol.

That's true for the vast majority of sports. It's all about context and what was known/possible at the time


I also wonder ho many of these'wonderful' outside moves etc would have taken place if the driver thought there was more than a o.oo1% chance of them being hurt? 'Ah I have never seen a car passed there before' probably beans previous drivers thought it too risky rather than they could not do it

For instance, the Force India cars this week. A driver would never have squeezed another like that if it was possible or probable both would be off to the medical centre.

I love the fact that mine seems to be the only one that people can't leave alone. I thought we were in a safe zone in this thread lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:35 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
moby wrote:
mcdo wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
What are some opinions you have about F1 that the majority of this forum likely doesn't agree with?

IMO, Max Verstappen is already the best driver on the grid. I reckon he would beat both Hamilton and Vettel in the same car.

Wow! Great example lol.

I am of the opinion that there is a massive chasm in ability/talent between modern F1 drivers by comparison to drivers from the golden age (prior to the 70s-80s). Been following the sport since the 80s and I think today's drivers are on a different planet from the likes of Fangio and Moss but some of the real old-timers will tear you a new one for saying that lol.

That's true for the vast majority of sports. It's all about context and what was known/possible at the time


I also wonder ho many of these'wonderful' outside moves etc would have taken place if the driver thought there was more than a o.oo1% chance of them being hurt? 'Ah I have never seen a car passed there before' probably beans previous drivers thought it too risky rather than they could not do it

For instance, the Force India cars this week. A driver would never have squeezed another like that if it was possible or probable both would be off to the medical centre.

I love the fact that mine seems to be the only one that people can't leave alone. I thought we were in a safe zone in this thread lol.




I am a real "old timer", started following F1 in 1950 & attended my first live motor sport event in 1949 but have no intentions of tearing a new one for anyone.
However I do believe it is impossible to compare drivers from different eras.
I do believe that if the greats of the past from any era were being born into today's environment they would be right up there with the current greats.

See my signature.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:26 am 
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* Driver performance varies from year to year as drivers are human and have things other than F1 going on in their life.
* Drivers having a life outside of F1 is acceptable if they are meeting the teams expectations, I don't expect every driver to be obsessed with it 24/7. I also don't think being obsessed with it 24/7 is the best approach for some drivers.
* Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso aren't separated by enough to waste time arguing about who is better.
* Teams should have to use all three tyre compounds in a race.

Exediron wrote:
* Social Media is a waste of time and energy.
:]. Im not sure what context you meant this in but I generally agree that its a waste of time in all contexts.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:53 am 
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To further elaborate on my opening post;

Verstappen has battered qualifying specialist Ricciardo this season. The score is 8-4 right now and Max just beat Dan by half a second at Spa.

Hamilton is beating Bottas in qualifying too, but only 7-5. In other words, Verstappen is more convincing than Hamilton in qualifying against a better teammate.

In terms of race craft, race pace and wet weather driving Verstappen is as good as anyone else. In fact, I think his racecraft is better than Hamilton these days. Lewis isn't as aggressive as he used to be.

Verstappen's retirements (not his fault) are doing a good job hiding just how good he's been this season.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:42 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Verstappen has battered qualifying specialist Ricciardo this season. The score is 8-4 right now and Max just beat Dan by half a second at Spa.


I think the only part of this that might have reason to be unpopular is calling Ricciardo a "qualifying specialist".

The facts:

Dan has only a single pole position
Dan usually performs better in races than in qualifying.

I think the perception comes from 2014 when Dan outqualified Vettel on a regular basis. He's a good qualifier, but his race craft and consistency outshines it IMO.

Verstappen on the other hand, I think has great speed over a lap, but his race craft and consistency suffer.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:16 am 
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oz_karter wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Verstappen has battered qualifying specialist Ricciardo this season. The score is 8-4 right now and Max just beat Dan by half a second at Spa.

I think the only part of this that might have reason to be unpopular is calling Ricciardo a "qualifying specialist".

The facts:

Dan has only a single pole position
Dan usually performs better in races than in qualifying.

I think the perception comes from 2014 when Dan outqualified Vettel on a regular basis. He's a good qualifier, but his race craft and consistency outshines it IMO.

Verstappen on the other hand, I think has great speed over a lap, but his race craft and consistency suffer.

It's actually from his Toro Rosso days, when the perception was that he out-qualified Vergne more often than he outraced him. Against Vettel, he was actually far less dominant in qualifying (12-7, I believe) compared to the races (12-3, if I recall).

The pole position stat is pretty pointless, though. No other driver has ever set a pole position while Ricciardo's teammate, so the fact that he only has one doesn't prove much. It's still one more than Max has.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:57 am 
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* F1 needs one see the return of refuelling. I miss that strategic part of racing.
* Women drivers need more opportunities to enter F1


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:34 am 
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- The 2012 Lotus was the fastest car that season but Kimi and Grosjean failed to get the most out of it.

- Perez was made a scapegoat for McLarens poor 2013 season

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:10 am 
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oz_karter wrote:
Verstappen on the other hand, I think has great speed over a lap, but his race craft and consistency suffer.

That is a complete myth. Apart from Hungary, Verstappen has been flawless this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:50 am 
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Monaco is the most overrated circuit in the sport. If it was invented today, it would be laughed out of the sport and never given a chance.

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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:59 am 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Monaco is the most overrated circuit in the sport. If it was invented today, it would be laughed out of the sport and never given a chance.


I'm with you :)
As a single-lap shootout, nice. As a track to actually race on with other cars, total BS.

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Go Vandoorne - Verstappen - Vettel!


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:08 am 
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-Hamilton is possibly the most overrated driver in the history of the sport. He's good, but not that good

-People still don't understand the impact the tyres may have on a driver's success. If they don't compliment a driver's style, they suffer big time

-Drivers are not robots who perform at exactly the same level every year. They can and do fluctuate if e.g. the car or tyres doesn't suit them

-Ron Dennis was McLaren

-The Ferrari is actually worse than the Mercedes, but Vettel is making it look better

-If Schumacher had stayed at Mercedes, he'd be heading for his 11th title now

-McLaren need Honda more than they need Alonso

-Alonso is up there with the fastest qualifiers on the grid

-F1 needs a tyre war

-F1 needs unrestricted testing

-F1 needs to open up (engine) regulations and stop banning any innovation people come up with


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:13 am 
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i would rather stand in a field a mile from the circuit, in the rain, naked, and listen to a v10 at 20k rpm then stand next to the track and experience these gutless atrocities.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:20 am 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
i would rather stand in a field a mile from the circuit, in the rain, naked, and listen to a v10 at 20k rpm then stand next to the track and experience these gutless atrocities.

I was at Spa last weekend and was actually surprised by how loud these engines were. I was expecting them to be much more muted but they were essentially louder versions of the GP2 cars. But at one point a couple of older generation cars went around the track and the noise that they made was spine-tingling and you could hear them no matter where they were on the circuit. Even my 19 year old daughter, who was with me but has no interest in F1, turned to me with a smile on her face and said "wow!" You could feel it throughout your body.

So, while I don't think that the noise these engines make is the death of F1, there's definitely something special about the old V8s and V10s that is very hard to put into words. It's visceral


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:36 am 
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- Perez is middle of the road driver who does well only because he is in midfield team and is not a top 2 team material.

- Kimi needs more ice cream during the race to keep him cool.

- Rosberg was better than what credit was given to him by fans, better than Bottas of now. A top driver who deserved to drive for team like Mercedes

- Kimi will never win WDC again in his life, wont even finish No. 2

- Alonso made a stupid mistake to go back to McLaren (Do note, I made this opinion clear in 2014 and most people here thought otherwise back then)

- We should ditch Monaco from the calendar.

- New/current Silverstone is too boring for modern F1 cars, would rather have London street race.

- Bring on Closed cockpit with fighter jet style canopy.

- Ron Denis was a d!ck.

- Max needs to calm the French Connection UK down.


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 Post subject: Re: Unpopular opinions
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:05 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
What are some opinions you have about F1 that the majority of this forum likely doesn't agree with?

IMO, Max Verstappen is already the best driver on the grid. I reckon he would beat both Hamilton and Vettel in the same car.


I look forward to this day, Unlikely he will go to Ferrari because they don't do two number 1s. So possible to Merc one day.

I don't agree that he would beat Lewis, I'd say it would be close but I think reliability would play a major factor more than Max beating Lewis.


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