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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:30 pm 
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I have merged the 2 threads discussing Lewis Hamilton's current f1 success

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:41 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
In terms of greatness I think anyone that has made as much as an impact on their era as Hamilton has deserves to be in the "all time great category". Of course greatest, best and most successful are three different things.

Yeah that was sort of a strange thing to say that Hamilton is nowhere near the most successful driver in relation to Alonso, that's actually something you can measure.

However when talking in terms of best and greatest that is more subjective and one person's opinion.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:18 pm 
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I sense this is more a dig at Vettel than praise of Hamilton, but nevertheless:



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:13 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
I sense this is more a dig at Vettel than praise of Hamilton, but nevertheless:


Hmm I doubt it is directed at Vettel tbh. I know Alonso likes to have a dig at Seb now and again but I doubt even he could deny Vettel has won when the car was dominant (2013), good (2017) and not good (2008 the obvious one but you could argue 2015/16 if by ‘not good’ you mean clearly not the best).


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
I sense this is more a dig at Vettel than praise of Hamilton, but nevertheless:


Hmm I doubt it is directed at Vettel tbh. I know Alonso likes to have a dig at Seb now and again but I doubt even he could deny Vettel has won when the car was dominant (2013), good (2017) and not good (2008 the obvious one but you could argue 2015/16 if by ‘not good’ you mean clearly not the best).

A couple of points about what you've written here. In 2015 the Ferrari was easily the second best car. The margin between that car and the 3rd best car was larger than the margin between Mercedes and Ferrari. 2008 was definitely a great win (still the only one in history for Torro Rosso) but I think Alonso is looking at seasons like 2014 and 2016 in particular, as years where he or Lewis would have won at least one race (hell in 2014 Seb's teammate had 3 wins) but where Vettel did not. I think Alonso is making a valid point here. Vettel is great when the car is up to it but not as great when it's not. It's debatable how important that is really. You're not winning a championship if the car isn't up to it anyway but it's a valid point none the less.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:11 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
I sense this is more a dig at Vettel than praise of Hamilton, but nevertheless:


Hmm I doubt it is directed at Vettel tbh. I know Alonso likes to have a dig at Seb now and again but I doubt even he could deny Vettel has won when the car was dominant (2013), good (2017) and not good (2008 the obvious one but you could argue 2015/16 if by ‘not good’ you mean clearly not the best).

A couple of points about what you've written here. In 2015 the Ferrari was easily the second best car. The margin between that car and the 3rd best car was larger than the margin between Mercedes and Ferrari. 2008 was definitely a great win (still the only one in history for Torro Rosso) but I think Alonso is looking at seasons like 2014 and 2016 in particular, as years where he or Lewis would have won at least one race (hell in 2014 Seb's teammate had 3 wins) but where Vettel did not. I think Alonso is making a valid point here. Vettel is great when the car is up to it but not as great when it's not. It's debatable how important that is really. You're not winning a championship if the car isn't up to it anyway but it's a valid point none the less.

Yeah I agree on 2015 it was as clear of a second best car as you will ever see, that was my point. 2016 I completely forgot that Ferrari went winless to be honest! But that wasn’t Vettel’s fault it has to be said, he drove terribly in the second half but in the first half he had 2 wins thrown away by Ferrari’s bizarre strategy calls, to the point that he started openly questioning them and making his own calls later in the year.

I agree he disappears when he isn’t happy with his position. 2015 I think is the exception because he was thrilled to be a Ferrari driver but both before and since whenever the car isn’t up to scratch he goes missing, as if he can’t see the point when there isn’t a win/championship on the cards and loses motivation.

I still don’t think Alonso is necessarily talking about Vettel in that clip though. Rosberg would be a better fit for one.


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