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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:34 pm 
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Source - www.autosport.com

NUMBER OF LAPS: 56

CIRCUIT LENGTH: 5.543 KM

RACE DISTANCE: 310.408 KM

LAP RECORD: 1:34.223
By Juan Pablo Montoya (2004)

Tyres:
Purple-marked ultrasoft tyre
Red-marked supersoft tyre
Yellow-marked soft tyre

Press Conference:
Part 1: Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari), Max Verstappen (Red Bull), Sebastian Vettel (Ferrari)
Part 2: Marcus Ericsson (Sauber), Pierre Gasly (Toro Rosso), Carlos Sainz (Toro Rosso)

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:35 pm 
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The last Malaysian grand prix has a potential explosive start - in the press conference with Vettel, Raikkonen & Verstappen together.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Tyre performance will be interesting. Am I not right in saying last year that the medium tyre was barely used, with softs used for qualifying and the hard tyre being the overwhelming race choice?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:11 pm 
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If we have a dry race I fully expect some new lap records this weekend.

Any news on the weather?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:13 pm 
The moment that title picture was taken I was certain Hamilton would win the 2016 title, a lot can happen still in this title race. Although a DNF this weekend and Hamilton podium would severely hurt Vettels chances.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:02 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
The last Malaysian grand prix has a potential explosive start - in the press conference with Vettel, Raikkonen & Verstappen together.

I think the drivers will be all grown up and just forget about it and move on. It will be all the people there asking a whole load of stupid questions about it that will just end up creating more arguments on forums :lol:

I just wish they would focus more on the GP coming up rather than all the negatives of the past race. Bring up one or two positives maybe but the way they kept brining the incident in Baku up in the Austrian press conference was just pailful to listen to. Why can't they just move on?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:12 am 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
If we have a dry race I fully expect some new lap records this weekend.

Any news on the weather?



Rain, rain, rain and more rain. Oh and thunderstorms...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:14 pm 
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olly-44 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
If we have a dry race I fully expect some new lap records this weekend.

Any news on the weather?



Rain, rain, rain and more rain. Oh and thunderstorms...

Really? :)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:42 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
olly-44 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
If we have a dry race I fully expect some new lap records this weekend.

Any news on the weather?



Rain, rain, rain and more rain. Oh and thunderstorms...

Really? :)


Looking at the forecast it's basically the typical Malaysian weather. Lots of intense 5 minute downpours.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:55 pm 
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As per Formula 1's official website, thunderstorms are anticipated on all 3 days.

Not surprised at this prediction.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:58 pm 
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per Formula 1's official website, thunderstorms are anticipated on all 3 days.

Not surprised at this prediction.


Its looks like quite a few sessions will be wet at very least.

How many sets of inters and wets do they get again? If a weekend is entirely wet I can't see much running going on in practice due to tyre and engine mileage as well as damage potential.

How important is refining a setup in the wet? When its dry, teams do a range of runs and work on setup over 2 days. Sometimes they are nowhere on Friday and find something over night. Where as in the wet, they just appear to bolt a setup on and go not even bothering to run if its too wet in practise.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:29 pm 
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I foresee a Vettel win.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:46 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
I foresee a Vettel win.


Vettel in the dry, Hamilton if it's wet.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:12 pm 
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lamo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per Formula 1's official website, thunderstorms are anticipated on all 3 days.

Not surprised at this prediction.


Its looks like quite a few sessions will be wet at very least.

How many sets of inters and wets do they get again? If a weekend is entirely wet I can't see much running going on in practice due to tyre and engine mileage as well as damage potential.

How important is refining a setup in the wet? When its dry, teams do a range of runs and work on setup over 2 days. Sometimes they are nowhere on Friday and find something over night. Where as in the wet, they just appear to bolt a setup on and go not even bothering to run if its too wet in practise.


Wet tires are limited too? I thought all restrictions were released once a race was declared wet.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:23 pm 
Herb Tarlik wrote:
lamo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per Formula 1's official website, thunderstorms are anticipated on all 3 days.

Not surprised at this prediction.


Its looks like quite a few sessions will be wet at very least.

How many sets of inters and wets do they get again? If a weekend is entirely wet I can't see much running going on in practice due to tyre and engine mileage as well as damage potential.

How important is refining a setup in the wet? When its dry, teams do a range of runs and work on setup over 2 days. Sometimes they are nowhere on Friday and find something over night. Where as in the wet, they just appear to bolt a setup on and go not even bothering to run if its too wet in practise.


Wet tires are limited too? I thought all restrictions were released once a race was declared wet.


That is in regards to a change of conditions between saturday or sunday. The teams get 4 sets of inters and 3 sets of extreme wets.

Generally the inter is the tyre to run once a little bit of surface water has been lifted, so 4 inters for 3 days doesn't go very far, especially as they burn out on a drying track.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:11 pm 
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What's the overtaking like at this circuit?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:12 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I foresee a Vettel win.


Vettel in the dry, Hamilton if it's wet.


I'll go Lewis in the dry, Max if it's wet.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:59 pm 
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Invade wrote:
What's the overtaking like at this circuit?

Probably one of the best on the whole calendar for overtaking, I'd say. The circuit is extremely wide, allowing for multiple lines through most corners, and features two very long straights.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:13 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Invade wrote:
What's the overtaking like at this circuit?

Probably one of the best on the whole calendar for overtaking, I'd say. The circuit is extremely wide, allowing for multiple lines through most corners, and features two very long straights.


In which case I see Lewis overhauling Seb even if he gets behind.

Good chance of Merc 1-2 in the dry and in the wet I'll take Lewis followed by Max/Seb with Dan, Kimi and Valtteri off the front.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:37 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I foresee a Vettel win.


Vettel in the dry, Hamilton if it's wet.


I'll go Lewis in the dry, Max if it's wet.


Has Max done exceptionally in any wet race apart from Brazil? I think his wet weather prowess is somewhat exaggerated. Lewis has won the last 6 rain effected races. I wouldn't bet against him making it 7.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:54 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I foresee a Vettel win.


Vettel in the dry, Hamilton if it's wet.


I'll go Lewis in the dry, Max if it's wet.


Has Max done exceptionally in any wet race apart from Brazil? I think his wet weather prowess is somewhat exaggerated. Lewis has won the last 6 rain effected races. I wouldn't bet against him making it 7.

Indeed Verstappen has yet to live with Hamilton in a wet race, you could make a case for him being the best of the rest though.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:19 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I foresee a Vettel win.


Vettel in the dry, Hamilton if it's wet.


I'll go Lewis in the dry, Max if it's wet.


Has Max done exceptionally in any wet race apart from Brazil? I think his wet weather prowess is somewhat exaggerated. Lewis has won the last 6 rain effected races. I wouldn't bet against him making it 7.

I think his wet weather racing skills is a little exaggerated too. I think it was only practice but he's had times where he's tried too hard in the wet such as Monaco 2016. I myself also think Bottas is critisised a little too much for his wet race performance. It is sometimes good and sometimes not. I wouldn't say his pace necessarily suddenly drops when it is wet. He was very good in qualifying in Canada way back in 2013 and I actually thought he was very good in Brazil 2016. The Williams was terrible in the wet there and yet he was one of the few drivers on intermediates while almost everyone ele was on full wets in soaking conditions. And he was matching the pace of the leaders in the last stint. But unfortunately, only managed 11th. Races such as Britain 2015 were evident that he really struggled in these conditions. Was 2nd behind Massa in the first part of the race, then the rain came and I think he fell over 60 seconds behind Hamilton and about 20 behind Massa.

I even think his overall pace in China this year was under rated. It was a really stupid mistake, but even though he made this very costly mistake, he pulled right up to the Kimi and the 2 red Bull drivers at the end. He must have had decent pace to recover from a mistake like that. It wasn't just the car.

So as I said, I think his pace is just a bit inconsistent in the wet. I wouldn't assume right away that Vettel and Verstappen will beat him if it is wet as sometimes, Bottas is pretty good in these conditions.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:23 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I foresee a Vettel win.


Vettel in the dry, Hamilton if it's wet.


I'll go Lewis in the dry, Max if it's wet.


Has Max done exceptionally in any wet race apart from Brazil? I think his wet weather prowess is somewhat exaggerated. Lewis has won the last 6 rain effected races. I wouldn't bet against him making it 7.

I think his wet weather racing skills is a little exaggerated too. I think it was only practice but he's had times where he's tried too hard in the wet such as Monaco 2016. I myself also think Bottas is critisised a little too much for his wet race performance. It is sometimes good and sometimes not. I wouldn't say his pace necessarily suddenly drops when it is wet. He was very good in qualifying in Canada way back in 2013 and I actually thought he was very good in Brazil 2016. The Williams was terrible in the wet there and yet he was one of the few drivers on intermediates while almost everyone ele was on full wets in soaking conditions. And he was matching the pace of the leaders in the last stint. But unfortunately, only managed 11th. Races such as Britain 2015 were evident that he really struggled in these conditions. Was 2nd behind Massa in the first part of the race, then the rain came and I think he fell over 60 seconds behind Hamilton and about 20 behind Massa.

I even think his overall pace in China this year was under rated. It was a really stupid mistake, but even though he made this very costly mistake, he pulled right up to the Kimi and the 2 red Bull drivers at the end. He must have had decent pace to recover from a mistake like that. It wasn't just the car.

So as I said, I think his pace is just a bit inconsistent in the wet. I wouldn't assume right away that Vettel and Verstappen will beat him if it is wet as sometimes, Bottas is pretty good in these conditions.


I think you're being too kind. I think Stroll is proving that it wasn't the Williams car that is poor in the wet but the drivers. The Williams poor in the wet myth is the perfect example of how a drivers performance can effect how a car is perceived. The gap widens between Hamilton and Bottas when it rains massively and Bottas was beaten by Massa more often than not in the rain. That's a pretty bleak out look in itself.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:24 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

Vettel in the dry, Hamilton if it's wet.


I'll go Lewis in the dry, Max if it's wet.


Has Max done exceptionally in any wet race apart from Brazil? I think his wet weather prowess is somewhat exaggerated. Lewis has won the last 6 rain effected races. I wouldn't bet against him making it 7.

I think his wet weather racing skills is a little exaggerated too. I think it was only practice but he's had times where he's tried too hard in the wet such as Monaco 2016. I myself also think Bottas is critisised a little too much for his wet race performance. It is sometimes good and sometimes not. I wouldn't say his pace necessarily suddenly drops when it is wet. He was very good in qualifying in Canada way back in 2013 and I actually thought he was very good in Brazil 2016. The Williams was terrible in the wet there and yet he was one of the few drivers on intermediates while almost everyone ele was on full wets in soaking conditions. And he was matching the pace of the leaders in the last stint. But unfortunately, only managed 11th. Races such as Britain 2015 were evident that he really struggled in these conditions. Was 2nd behind Massa in the first part of the race, then the rain came and I think he fell over 60 seconds behind Hamilton and about 20 behind Massa.

I even think his overall pace in China this year was under rated. It was a really stupid mistake, but even though he made this very costly mistake, he pulled right up to the Kimi and the 2 red Bull drivers at the end. He must have had decent pace to recover from a mistake like that. It wasn't just the car.

So as I said, I think his pace is just a bit inconsistent in the wet. I wouldn't assume right away that Vettel and Verstappen will beat him if it is wet as sometimes, Bottas is pretty good in these conditions.


I think you're being too kind. I think Stroll is proving that it wasn't the Williams car that is poor in the wet but the drivers. The Williams poor in the wet myth is the perfect example of how a drivers performance can effect how a car is perceived. The gap widens between Hamilton and Bottas when it rains massively and Bottas was beaten by Massa more often than not in the rain. That's a pretty bleak out look in itself.

Yes the body of evidence is not good for Bottas.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:17 am 
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:

I even think his overall pace in China this year was under rated. It was a really stupid mistake, but even though he made this very costly mistake, he pulled right up to the Kimi and the 2 red Bull drivers at the end. He must have had decent pace to recover from a mistake like that. It wasn't just the car.

So as I said, I think his pace is just a bit inconsistent in the wet. I wouldn't assume right away that Vettel and Verstappen will beat him if it is wet as sometimes, Bottas is pretty good in these conditions.


I think you're being too kind. I think Stroll is proving that it wasn't the Williams car that is poor in the wet but the drivers. The Williams poor in the wet myth is the perfect example of how a drivers performance can effect how a car is perceived. The gap widens between Hamilton and Bottas when it rains massively and Bottas was beaten by Massa more often than not in the rain. That's a pretty bleak out look in itself.


Way too kind, praising his wet weather skills in China? It was a 56 lap race, the first 4-5 laps were ran on inters. By lap 6 the entire field were on dry tyres. This is when Bottas spun behind the SC. The race resumed on lap 7 slightly damp, by lap 9 they were doing affectively full dry times. This wasn't a wet race.

Admittedly I am just looking it up on timing, but Bottas was 2nd on lap 3 and 5th on lap 5? Anyone remember what happened to him. Kimi and Ricciardo jumped him and he didn't pit and lost 5 second to Hamilton on lap 4. Did he go off twice? Once on lap 4 and once behind the SC?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:24 am 
Vettel has somehow become under rated in the rain, not sure how. He had the TR up to 3rd in Japan 2007 when the car was poor. Won in Monza in the TR. Beaten every team mate in the wet. Webber was also a good wet weather driver himself. I still think Vettel is on the level of Hamilton in the wet and the Ferrari should in theory be a good car in the wet on a normal track.

If it rains I see it as improving Vettel chances this weekend.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:45 am 
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The current rain masters in F1 are Hamilton, Vettel and Max with honorable mention to Alonso and Ricciardo...Wait a minute. It's those same 5 guys again! Coincidence?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:09 am 
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lamo wrote:
Vettel has somehow become under rated in the rain, not sure how. He had the TR up to 3rd in Japan 2007 when the car was poor. Won in Monza in the TR. Beaten every team mate in the wet. Webber was also a good wet weather driver himself. I still think Vettel is on the level of Hamilton in the wet and the Ferrari should in theory be a good car in the wet on a normal track.

If it rains I see it as improving Vettel chances this weekend.

You're basically having to go back 10 years to say that Vettel is up there with the best in the wet, in the meantime there has been plenty of wet races were Vettel has looked not so good, he was poor in Silverstone last year for instance.

Webber wouldn't be classed as exceptional in the wet either and a wet race is not what Vettel will be hoping for.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:12 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
The current rain masters in F1 are Hamilton, Vettel and Max with honorable mention to Alonso and Ricciardo...Wait a minute. It's those same 5 guys again! Coincidence?

Vettel and Alonso are fairly good in the wet whilst Ricciardo basically gets best by every teammate he has had in the wet, I rank Hamilton as the best followed by Verstappen.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:56 am 
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pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
The current rain masters in F1 are Hamilton, Vettel and Max with honorable mention to Alonso and Ricciardo...Wait a minute. It's those same 5 guys again! Coincidence?

Vettel and Alonso are fairly good in the wet whilst Ricciardo basically gets best by every teammate he has had in the wet, I rank Hamilton as the best followed by Verstappen.

I'm not sure I agree with your statement about Daniel. He certainly shined winning in Hungary in 2014 and I've seen numerous impressive wet performances from him. Max seems like the only teammate who has been clearly stronger than him in the wet IMO.

I do think Hamilton is the strongest in the wet. The way the gap generally widens between him and teammates during wet races is something I've noticed over the years and he has numerous wet race wins dating back to his earliest years in F1. Certainly he has won more wet races than anyone on the grid and sometimes by absurd margins (Silverstone 2008 comes to mind).

Vettel has also been brilliant in the wet over the years. Several wins and strong drives in the rain from him.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:06 am 
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Gee Sky and particularly Ted don't want to let this Singapore situation go. All drivers including Max are trying to move on. Doubt this discussion would be happening with the same tone if it was their boy in the Vettels position.
Also the way Sky are talking like Di Resta is guaranteed for Williams? What about Massa? Kubica?

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:03 am 
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cm97 wrote:
Gee Sky and particularly Ted don't want to let this Singapore situation go. All drivers including Max are trying to move on. Doubt this discussion would be happening with the same tone if it was their boy in the Vettels position.
Also the way Sky are talking like Di Resta is guaranteed for Williams? What about Massa? Kubica?



Sky's coverage is TV's equivalent to clickbait, at times.

As for the Williams seat. Massa IMO not up to standard anymore, and Kubica is an enormous risk for obvious reasons. PDR relatively speaking is a very 'safe' option, and ticks the over 25 box obviously.

IF, and it has to be a massive IF I think, Kubica can come back, the arm is no issue and he can find his pace again he's the obvious candidate for so many reasons. I'd love to see him given some FP1 time at some stage, it actually surprises me that it hasn't been mentioned before or that I've not seen it mentioned at any rate.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:04 am 
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
The current rain masters in F1 are Hamilton, Vettel and Max with honorable mention to Alonso and Ricciardo...Wait a minute. It's those same 5 guys again! Coincidence?

Vettel and Alonso are fairly good in the wet whilst Ricciardo basically gets best by every teammate he has had in the wet, I rank Hamilton as the best followed by Verstappen.

I'm not sure I agree with your statement about Daniel. He certainly shined winning in Hungary in 2014 and I've seen numerous impressive wet performances from him. Max seems like the only teammate who has been clearly stronger than him in the wet IMO.

I do think Hamilton is the strongest in the wet. The way the gap generally widens between him and teammates during wet races is something I've noticed over the years and he has numerous wet race wins dating back to his earliest years in F1. Certainly he has won more wet races than anyone on the grid and sometimes by absurd margins (Silverstone 2008 comes to mind).

Vettel has also been brilliant in the wet over the years. Several wins and strong drives in the rain from him.


7 laps of the 70 lap race was run on inters. He fell so far behind in the opening wet phase that all the leaders had gone by the pits as the SC was deployed, allowing him to put on dry tyres first. By the time they got to pit he was then in the lead. Well actually Jenson Button was, who was ahead of DR before the pit stops but JB put on a new set of inters and pitted as soon as the SC went in. A rare occasion when JB completely got the tyre strategy call wrong. The rest of the race was dry.

He started in 4th and was in 6th by the end of the first lap. He ran in 6th for the first 6 laps. The only wet part of the race.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:23 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
The current rain masters in F1 are Hamilton, Vettel and Max with honorable mention to Alonso and Ricciardo...Wait a minute. It's those same 5 guys again! Coincidence?

Vettel and Alonso are fairly good in the wet whilst Ricciardo basically gets best by every teammate he has had in the wet, I rank Hamilton as the best followed by Verstappen.

I'm not sure I agree with your statement about Daniel. He certainly shined winning in Hungary in 2014 and I've seen numerous impressive wet performances from him. Max seems like the only teammate who has been clearly stronger than him in the wet IMO.

I do think Hamilton is the strongest in the wet. The way the gap generally widens between him and teammates during wet races is something I've noticed over the years and he has numerous wet race wins dating back to his earliest years in F1. Certainly he has won more wet races than anyone on the grid and sometimes by absurd margins (Silverstone 2008 comes to mind).

Vettel has also been brilliant in the wet over the years. Several wins and strong drives in the rain from him.


Vergne beat him comfortably in the wet. More comfortably than Max who's wet weather reputation is built on one race.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:44 am 
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
The current rain masters in F1 are Hamilton, Vettel and Max with honorable mention to Alonso and Ricciardo...Wait a minute. It's those same 5 guys again! Coincidence?

Vettel and Alonso are fairly good in the wet whilst Ricciardo basically gets best by every teammate he has had in the wet, I rank Hamilton as the best followed by Verstappen.

I'm not sure I agree with your statement about Daniel. He certainly shined winning in Hungary in 2014 and I've seen numerous impressive wet performances from him. Max seems like the only teammate who has been clearly stronger than him in the wet IMO.

I do think Hamilton is the strongest in the wet. The way the gap generally widens between him and teammates during wet races is something I've noticed over the years and he has numerous wet race wins dating back to his earliest years in F1. Certainly he has won more wet races than anyone on the grid and sometimes by absurd margins (Silverstone 2008 comes to mind).

Vettel has also been brilliant in the wet over the years. Several wins and strong drives in the rain from him.


Vergne beat him comfortably in the wet. More comfortably than Max who's wet weather reputation is built on one race.


Vettel also out qualified DR 3-0 in the wet sessions in 2014. In the dry DR beat him in the region of 12-4 that year.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:56 am 
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DanyRic also outqualified Vergne something like 25 times in two seasons together, outscored him across their two seasons. JEV is now driving battery powered Formula 3 cars, DanyRic looks like getting to pick whether he drives a Ferrari, a Mercedes or a Red Bull in 2019.

I'd suggest that not only is the constant Ricciardo bashing tiresome, but turning every thread into a Ricciardo bashing thread is not only tiresome but very very misguided.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:58 am 
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RESULTS - Practice 1, Formula 1 Malaysian GP (90 min)
Pos No. Driver Team Time/Gap
1 (33) Max Verstappen (Red Bull) 1m48.962
2 (3) Daniel Ricciardo (Red Bull) +0.757s
3 (14) Fernando Alonso (McLaren) +1.635s
4 (7) Kimi Raikkonen (Ferrari) +1.772s
5 (5) Sebastian Vettel (Ferrari) +2.047s
6 (44) Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes) +2.556s
7 (77) Valtteri Bottas (Mercedes) +3.045s
8 (19) Lance Stroll (Williams) +3.333s
9 (10) Pierre Gasly (Toro Rosso)+3.418s
10 (12) Sergio Perez (Force India)+4.559s
11 (46) Sergey Sirotkin (Renault) +4.663s
12 (30) Jolyon Palmer (Renault) +4.809s
13 (2) Stoffel Vandoorne (McLaren) +4.934s
14 (31) Esteban Ocon (Force India)+5.648s
15 (38) Sean Gelael (Toro Rosso)+5.707s
16 (37) Charles Leclerc (Sauber) +6.318s
17 (94) Pascal Wehrlein (Sauber) +6.69s
18 (8) Romain Grosjean (Haas) +7.249s
19 (50) Antonio Giovinazzi (Haas) +7.377s
20 (18) Felipe Massa (Williams) NTR


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:02 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
The current rain masters in F1 are Hamilton, Vettel and Max with honorable mention to Alonso and Ricciardo...Wait a minute. It's those same 5 guys again! Coincidence?

Vettel and Alonso are fairly good in the wet whilst Ricciardo basically gets best by every teammate he has had in the wet, I rank Hamilton as the best followed by Verstappen.

I'm not sure I agree with your statement about Daniel. He certainly shined winning in Hungary in 2014 and I've seen numerous impressive wet performances from him. Max seems like the only teammate who has been clearly stronger than him in the wet IMO.

I do think Hamilton is the strongest in the wet. The way the gap generally widens between him and teammates during wet races is something I've noticed over the years and he has numerous wet race wins dating back to his earliest years in F1. Certainly he has won more wet races than anyone on the grid and sometimes by absurd margins (Silverstone 2008 comes to mind).

Vettel has also been brilliant in the wet over the years. Several wins and strong drives in the rain from him.


Vergne beat him comfortably in the wet. More comfortably than Max who's wet weather reputation is built on one race.



Really? I mean, really? :P

Shanghai 2017, Max starts 16th on a wet track, is 7th after one lap, 2nd after ten...
Silverstone 2016, Max is the only one able to follow the pace of the Mercedes drivers and even passes Rosberg in a very spectacular fashion in the wet. Looks set to finish second, but the track dries up and Rosberg can close the gap again.
COTA 2015, Max completely outperforms his Toro Rosso with a fourth place in the wet from an 8th starting position.

Just some examples, and we're not even talking about the FP's and Qualy's where Max suddenly steps up a notch whenever there's any rain.

I agree that Hamilton is the current rainmaster until he's been beaten, but the only person who's going to be able to do that is Max, the rest of the field is not even close to those two.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:07 am 
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Llotyhy wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
The current rain masters in F1 are Hamilton, Vettel and Max with honorable mention to Alonso and Ricciardo...Wait a minute. It's those same 5 guys again! Coincidence?

Vettel and Alonso are fairly good in the wet whilst Ricciardo basically gets best by every teammate he has had in the wet, I rank Hamilton as the best followed by Verstappen.

I'm not sure I agree with your statement about Daniel. He certainly shined winning in Hungary in 2014 and I've seen numerous impressive wet performances from him. Max seems like the only teammate who has been clearly stronger than him in the wet IMO.

I do think Hamilton is the strongest in the wet. The way the gap generally widens between him and teammates during wet races is something I've noticed over the years and he has numerous wet race wins dating back to his earliest years in F1. Certainly he has won more wet races than anyone on the grid and sometimes by absurd margins (Silverstone 2008 comes to mind).

Vettel has also been brilliant in the wet over the years. Several wins and strong drives in the rain from him.


Vergne beat him comfortably in the wet. More comfortably than Max who's wet weather reputation is built on one race.



Really? I mean, really? :P

Shanghai 2017, Max starts 16th on a wet track, is 7th after one lap, 2nd after ten...
Silverstone 2016, Max is the only one able to follow the pace of the Mercedes drivers and even passes Rosberg in a very spectacular fashion in the wet. Looks set to finish second, but the track dries up and Rosberg can close the gap again.
COTA 2015, Max completely outperforms his Toro Rosso with a fourth place in the wet from an 8th starting position.

Just some examples, and we're not even talking about the FP's and Qualy's where Max suddenly steps up a notch whenever there's any rain.

I agree that Hamilton is the current rainmaster until he's been beaten, but the only person who's going to be able to do that is Max, the rest of the field is not even close to those two.


Well I've clearly not been paying enough attention :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:55 am 
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After watching both Mercs...they are definitely both struggling front end. Red Bull in front of them. Glad I picked Vettel for the win...so far

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