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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:39 am 
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There are many ways to protest against something. Doing it during the national anthem of a country's gp where he is the most popular driver, when fighting for a championship which could potentially be very close by that stage, would be too much. A lot of countries have dark pasts full of pretty horrific things and standing for a national anthem doesn't mean you support all of that. It's just a procedure they all have to follow at every gp (personally I think it was better when they didn't have to stand at the front, though). Leave it at that.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:38 pm 
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I don't think he should do it, But I think he will do it.

I think the reason why he would over Bahrain, Baku etc is because it's a ' black ' issue ( not to sound racist but I think that's where his train of thought will be )
He holds a lot of star power in America, Probably more than any with the exception of Schui. He knows this, Mercedes knows this.
Mercedes won't deny him to race either, It wouldn't be a popular decision to drop the biggest star of F1 right now. Although like people have pointed out, This could have a negative effect on how Mercedes is viewed in America.
They are between a rock and a hard place.

The FIA won't do anything. Likewise with Mercedes, It wouldn't be a popular decision to fine F1's biggest star and being a political issue, It would be mighty hypocritical of them to do so.

Probably the only one to do anything is Liberty Media. I almost guarantee that the TV Cameras will be faced away from Hamilton. It's still going to come out that Hamilton did it. But it's not as big a issue if it's not televised.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:41 pm 
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Greenman wrote:
.

Hamilton is British and so it won't occur.

Only the USA is quite so old fashioned and weird about their flag, and National Anthem. Their "civilian salute" is likewise weird (although the previous version is good for a laugh) ;

See "The Bellamy Salute"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

.



I can imagine a certain US president wanting to reinstate this for all the wrong reasons!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:50 pm 
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I'd object to him doing it for a few reasons, the primary being that it has nothing to do with race and has everything to do with sore losers not liking the outcome of a democratic presidential election. The second being that it is based on a questionable premise.

Having said that, as Lewis has openly attacked Trump in the media, I think he probably will.

If you don't mind a bit of colourful language, this is an interesting perspective:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thg4lnaVIT4


Last edited by TedStriker on Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:56 pm 
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TedStriker wrote:
I'd object to him doing it for a few reasons, the primary being that it has nothing to do with race and has everything to do with sore losers not liking the outcome of a democratic presidential election. The second being that it is based on a false premise.

Having said that, as Lewis has openly attacked Trump in the media, I think he probably will.

If you don't mind a bit of colourful language, this is an interesting perspective:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thg4lnaVIT4


What is the false premise then?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Gosh I hope not. I hate entertainers taking political positions during the course of their job. After work, fine, but it would really upset a lot of American fans.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:59 pm 
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I’d have a lot of respect for him if he did, and I couldn’t imagine the FIA or anyone else penalising him for it. I’d be surprised if he did though.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:01 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
TedStriker wrote:
I'd object to him doing it for a few reasons, the primary being that it has nothing to do with race and has everything to do with sore losers not liking the outcome of a democratic presidential election. The second being that it is based on a false premise.

Having said that, as Lewis has openly attacked Trump in the media, I think he probably will.

If you don't mind a bit of colourful language, this is an interesting perspective:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thg4lnaVIT4


What is the false premise then?


Ok fair enough, the issue is subjective enough and I shouldn't have use the phrase I did. Edited.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:33 pm 
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TedStriker wrote:
I'd object to him doing it for a few reasons, the primary being that it has nothing to do with race and has everything to do with sore losers not liking the outcome of a democratic presidential election.

It quite clearly had nothing to do with Trump until Trump decided to get involved

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:14 pm 
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It's a shame to see Hamilton buying into the false narrative and the fact that he may take a knee and disgrace our flag on American soil is repulsive. By doing so he will join the small minority of idiotic,overpaid celebrity athletes who have no clue about what this flag represents and those who fought and died for it.

His brand and his name will be forever tarnished if he decides to disgrace himself and our flag while a guest in this great country!
:thumbdown:
:thumbdown:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:25 pm 
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Should totally do it. It would give us awesome threads like this one.

:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:35 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
TedStriker wrote:
I'd object to him doing it for a few reasons, the primary being that it has nothing to do with race and has everything to do with sore losers not liking the outcome of a democratic presidential election.

It quite clearly had nothing to do with Trump until Trump decided to get involved

How honestly was the President to ignore an insult to the National Anthem? I don't like Trump one bit, but a President should take offence to such action.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:38 pm 
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TedStriker wrote:
I'd object to him doing it for a few reasons, the primary being that it has nothing to do with race and has everything to do with sore losers not liking the outcome of a democratic presidential election. The second being that it is based on a questionable premise.

Having said that, as Lewis has openly attacked Trump in the media, I think he probably will.

If you don't mind a bit of colourful language, this is an interesting perspective:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thg4lnaVIT4

I did watch that video until the end.

First it only argues against a strawman representation.
Secondly while it contains multiple screenshots of articles from news organisations, none of them are cited or linked to in the video source to allow for further analysis, and presented entirely by the presenter's subjective summary.
Finally, the end graphics reveal it to be part of the Infowars/Alex Jones umbrella, completely eradicating any shreds of potential legitimacy it may have following points 1 and 2.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:00 pm 
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jimmyj wrote:
mcdo wrote:
TedStriker wrote:
I'd object to him doing it for a few reasons, the primary being that it has nothing to do with race and has everything to do with sore losers not liking the outcome of a democratic presidential election.

It quite clearly had nothing to do with Trump until Trump decided to get involved

How honestly was the President to ignore an insult to the National Anthem? I don't like Trump one bit, but a President should take offence to such action.

Maybe by doing his job and focusing on real problems

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:01 pm 
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I find this pretty much an American internal issue, the flag "fetishism". It is far deeper than what it appears to be from its surface. Kneeling in itself is not even an act of disrespect, but simply a different way. Even not giving a respect, that itself would still not constitute an act of disrespect by default. But just the absence of respect. So it is not even about the very symbol itself (the flag) but the ritual. And that is but the surface of it.

Americans can't watch one silly game without being made to stand up and cross their hearts. That is the drill that they Americans have been subjected to since their births. It is brainwashing, yes, like they do in N. Korea too. The unconditional worship of the state, or rather the mighty military that is protecting their freedom and liberty. That is the meaning, so when the Uncle Sam calls for their boys to be sent to fight (and die and get butchered) in some war overseas, people answer the calls as proudly as they have been trained to stand up with their hands crossing their hearts millions of times... no question asked. Never mind that their boys are not even protecting their freedom and liberty back home - nobody is ever threatening the homeland security and American freedom, since the end of WW2.

That is the trouble of "taking the knee" during the flag ritual. An individual sheep doing differently than what all the rest of sheep do every time. Yes, it brings the full attention to the intended message, but it could lead to an erosion of the very ritual... and incidentally, the gross reaction by Trump has just initiated something more than the intended original "BLM" protest. A protest against the government itself. Though, that is the way Trump only knows how to rule: to divide people, turn one group (preferably the majority) against the other. If people didn't mind, if it is fine with them, then the rulers are losers. But it's the sward with double edge.

Hence, Hamilton best keeps out of that circus. IMO.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:28 pm 
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I agree, Hamilton should stay out as he's not American and it is not relevant to him. I also think if BLM had originally been named as "Black Lives Matter Too" they would be better understood too. Personally I think cats and dogs and other animals should have as much intrinsic rights as any flavour of human but that's for another century of progress ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:53 am 
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mas wrote:
I agree, Hamilton should stay out as he's not American and it is not relevant to him. I also think if BLM had originally been named as "Black Lives Matter Too" they would be better understood too. Personally I think cats and dogs and other animals should have as much intrinsic rights as any flavour of human but that's for another century of progress ;)

The "too" part ought to be self-evident. Those who don't want to understand, won't understand.
Agree with the "animal" part. Frankly, I feel more for the suffering of animals than I do that for humans.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:37 am 
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The issue is sensitive for one reason - The American President.

What started off as a simple small protest by one man sitting on a bench. Turned in to a kneeling because a Veteran wasn't happy at sitting down. It was suggested to kneel because it's respectful. Kneeling at a funeral, kneeling to propose, kneeling for religion, kneeling for your country.. all means respect.

Sadly this entire thing has turned political. Anti/Pro President Trump hysteria. Fed by people who do/don't like him and of course President Trump is using this to feed more hysteria.

It's yet another mess.. started by something completely right and innocent. Like every historical protest regarding civil rights and equality... and just like a lot of them it's been turned in to a mess by people who refuse to see the clear picture. Instead they see their own ambitions and political problems.

He is probably under pressure from some of his friends from America... if he kneels because he supports equality for Americans and wants them to do something regarding the law enforcement killing black people far too easily - go for it


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:44 am 
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The last time I remember a political issue in F1, was in 2006 in Turkey when the GP organisers were actually fined. Political/racial/other statements should stay out of a GP really.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:55 am 
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Teddy007 wrote:
The issue is sensitive for one reason - The American President.

What started off as a simple small protest by one man sitting on a bench. Turned in to a kneeling because a Veteran wasn't happy at sitting down. It was suggested to kneel because it's respectful. Kneeling at a funeral, kneeling to propose, kneeling for religion, kneeling for your country.. all means respect.

Sadly this entire thing has turned political. Anti/Pro President Trump hysteria. Fed by people who do/don't like him and of course President Trump is using this to feed more hysteria.

It's yet another mess.. started by something completely right and innocent. Like every historical protest regarding civil rights and equality... and just like a lot of them it's been turned in to a mess by people who refuse to see the clear picture. Instead they see their own ambitions and political problems.

He is probably under pressure from some of his friends from America... if he kneels because he supports equality for Americans and wants them to do something regarding the law enforcement killing black people far too easily - go for it


Its not the principle of the protest, its the principle of F1 participants (or sporting non Americans really) getting involved in it.
It belongs in the same book as politics in every other country they race, that is outside the circuit.
Once done, it can not be undone.


Edit

DAMN!!! I intended to stay away from this. See how dangerous it is :]


Last edited by moby on Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:23 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
The last time I remember a political issue in F1, was in 2006 in Turkey when the GP organisers were actually fined. Political/racial/other statements should stay out of a GP really.

Bahrain 2011 was a pretty big one

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:41 am 
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mcdo wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
The last time I remember a political issue in F1, was in 2006 in Turkey when the GP organisers were actually fined. Political/racial/other statements should stay out of a GP really.

Bahrain 2011 was a pretty big one


Of course, I remember the unrest, but couldn't remember which GP it was.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:42 am 
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Teddy007 wrote:
The issue is sensitive for one reason - The American President.

What started off as a simple small protest by one man sitting on a bench. Turned in to a kneeling because a Veteran wasn't happy at sitting down. It was suggested to kneel because it's respectful. Kneeling at a funeral, kneeling to propose, kneeling for religion, kneeling for your country.. all means respect.

Sadly this entire thing has turned political. Anti/Pro President Trump hysteria. Fed by people who do/don't like him and of course President Trump is using this to feed more hysteria.

It's yet another mess.. started by something completely right and innocent. Like every historical protest regarding civil rights and equality... and just like a lot of them it's been turned in to a mess by people who refuse to see the clear picture. Instead they see their own ambitions and political problems.

He is probably under pressure from some of his friends from America... if he kneels because he supports equality for Americans and wants them to do something regarding the law enforcement killing black people far too easily - go for it


It has turned bigly political the moment Trump dived himself into it in his blatant way of calling the protesting dudes the "sons of bitches", (ab)using his post of the president to call the public to boycott the NFL which is the private business, pressing the owners of the teams to fire those who "take the knee" and demanding the practice to stop. He practically called for "anti-Trump" response, and that one came as doctor prescribed.

Now, it is all about that, basically. And that is what Hamilton would be participating in too, never mind the original "blm" message. He apparently did not consider doing it before it became that what it has become now.
In any case, as he likes, it's a free country (or not, apparently). Just that to me it would look funny that he starts doing it now in solidarity with "his" American "brothers".


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:08 am 
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carbonfiber diet wrote:
It's a shame to see Hamilton buying into the false narrative and the fact that he may take a knee and disgrace our flag on American soil is repulsive. By doing so he will join the small minority of idiotic,overpaid celebrity athletes who have no clue about what this flag represents and those who fought and died for it.

His brand and his name will be forever tarnished if he decides to disgrace himself and our flag while a guest in this great country!
:thumbdown:
:thumbdown:


This is a fantastic example of a mentality that so many people cannot comprehend or understand.

As Prema highlighted above, there is brainwashed levels of importance placed in a piece of coloured fabric. It's bizarre to anyone not caught up in it to see grown men and women become so illogical the second a flag or military comes in to play, but brainwashed is a good way to put it (or be more polite and call it 'cultural').

Also the hypocrisy of "those who fought and died for it". They didn't die for a flag, surely? If they fought over a piece of fabric then they ought to have got their priorities in place. Perhaps they were fighting for a way of life, a freedom for people to be who they want to be, to achieve what they want to achieve, the American dream, with all the freedoms of expression this brings. Unless that freedom of expression could be construed as disrespecting a piece of fabric, then we should remove the freedom of expression.

I have no idea if Hamilton will or won't do this. I can certainly see this is something very close to his heart, if someone wants to counsel him out of it I would guess it would need to be a friend rather than a 'boss'.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:16 am 
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Ennis wrote:
carbonfiber diet wrote:
It's a shame to see Hamilton buying into the false narrative and the fact that he may take a knee and disgrace our flag on American soil is repulsive. By doing so he will join the small minority of idiotic,overpaid celebrity athletes who have no clue about what this flag represents and those who fought and died for it.

His brand and his name will be forever tarnished if he decides to disgrace himself and our flag while a guest in this great country!
:thumbdown:
:thumbdown:


This is a fantastic example of a mentality that so many people cannot comprehend or understand.

As Prema highlighted above, there is brainwashed levels of importance placed in a piece of coloured fabric. It's bizarre to anyone not caught up in it to see grown men and women become so illogical the second a flag or military comes in to play, but brainwashed is a good way to put it (or be more polite and call it 'cultural').

Also the hypocrisy of "those who fought and died for it". They didn't die for a flag, surely? If they fought over a piece of fabric then they ought to have got their priorities in place. Perhaps they were fighting for a way of life, a freedom for people to be who they want to be, to achieve what they want to achieve, the American dream, with all the freedoms of expression this brings. Unless that freedom of expression could be construed as disrespecting a piece of fabric, then we should remove the freedom of expression.

I have no idea if Hamilton will or won't do this. I can certainly see this is something very close to his heart, if someone wants to counsel him out of it I would guess it would need to be a friend rather than a 'boss'.



He needs (as do we) to separate his 'right' to do it from the good sense of doing it.
He has every right to do it, and I would support him 100% if he was told he could not, but it is not a good idea however right it is.
Head over heart is needed here.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:22 am 
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moby wrote:
Ennis wrote:
carbonfiber diet wrote:
It's a shame to see Hamilton buying into the false narrative and the fact that he may take a knee and disgrace our flag on American soil is repulsive. By doing so he will join the small minority of idiotic,overpaid celebrity athletes who have no clue about what this flag represents and those who fought and died for it.

His brand and his name will be forever tarnished if he decides to disgrace himself and our flag while a guest in this great country!
:thumbdown:
:thumbdown:


This is a fantastic example of a mentality that so many people cannot comprehend or understand.

As Prema highlighted above, there is brainwashed levels of importance placed in a piece of coloured fabric. It's bizarre to anyone not caught up in it to see grown men and women become so illogical the second a flag or military comes in to play, but brainwashed is a good way to put it (or be more polite and call it 'cultural').

Also the hypocrisy of "those who fought and died for it". They didn't die for a flag, surely? If they fought over a piece of fabric then they ought to have got their priorities in place. Perhaps they were fighting for a way of life, a freedom for people to be who they want to be, to achieve what they want to achieve, the American dream, with all the freedoms of expression this brings. Unless that freedom of expression could be construed as disrespecting a piece of fabric, then we should remove the freedom of expression.

I have no idea if Hamilton will or won't do this. I can certainly see this is something very close to his heart, if someone wants to counsel him out of it I would guess it would need to be a friend rather than a 'boss'.



He needs (as do we) to separate his 'right' to do it from the good sense of doing it.
He has every right to do it, and I would support him 100% if he was told he could not, but it is not a good idea however right it is.
Head over heart is needed here.


What is his 'good sense' though? I don't think I would do it, but surely me not doing it if I believe its the right thing to do would make me a coward and a sell out? The whole thing which makes the protest brave for anyone doing it is that they risk personal loss by doing so.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:30 am 
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Ennis wrote:
moby wrote:
Ennis wrote:
carbonfiber diet wrote:
It's a shame to see Hamilton buying into the false narrative and the fact that he may take a knee and disgrace our flag on American soil is repulsive. By doing so he will join the small minority of idiotic,overpaid celebrity athletes who have no clue about what this flag represents and those who fought and died for it.

His brand and his name will be forever tarnished if he decides to disgrace himself and our flag while a guest in this great country!
:thumbdown:
:thumbdown:


This is a fantastic example of a mentality that so many people cannot comprehend or understand.

As Prema highlighted above, there is brainwashed levels of importance placed in a piece of coloured fabric. It's bizarre to anyone not caught up in it to see grown men and women become so illogical the second a flag or military comes in to play, but brainwashed is a good way to put it (or be more polite and call it 'cultural').

Also the hypocrisy of "those who fought and died for it". They didn't die for a flag, surely? If they fought over a piece of fabric then they ought to have got their priorities in place. Perhaps they were fighting for a way of life, a freedom for people to be who they want to be, to achieve what they want to achieve, the American dream, with all the freedoms of expression this brings. Unless that freedom of expression could be construed as disrespecting a piece of fabric, then we should remove the freedom of expression.

I have no idea if Hamilton will or won't do this. I can certainly see this is something very close to his heart, if someone wants to counsel him out of it I would guess it would need to be a friend rather than a 'boss'.



He needs (as do we) to separate his 'right' to do it from the good sense of doing it.
He has every right to do it, and I would support him 100% if he was told he could not, but it is not a good idea however right it is.
Head over heart is needed here.


What is his 'good sense' though? I don't think I would do it, but surely me not doing it if I believe its the right thing to do would make me a coward and a sell out? The whole thing which makes the protest brave for anyone doing it is that they risk personal loss by doing so.

Good sense is probably to understand that this is a national thing and for an outsider to take part in this particular protest - being as it is an action against a national flag that could and will be interpreted by many as an insult - is probably a little ill-advised. there are other ways to raise awareness if he feels strongly enough about the issue


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:43 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Ennis wrote:
moby wrote:
Ennis wrote:
carbonfiber diet wrote:
It's a shame to see Hamilton buying into the false narrative and the fact that he may take a knee and disgrace our flag on American soil is repulsive. By doing so he will join the small minority of idiotic,overpaid celebrity athletes who have no clue about what this flag represents and those who fought and died for it.

His brand and his name will be forever tarnished if he decides to disgrace himself and our flag while a guest in this great country!
:thumbdown:
:thumbdown:


This is a fantastic example of a mentality that so many people cannot comprehend or understand.

As Prema highlighted above, there is brainwashed levels of importance placed in a piece of coloured fabric. It's bizarre to anyone not caught up in it to see grown men and women become so illogical the second a flag or military comes in to play, but brainwashed is a good way to put it (or be more polite and call it 'cultural').

Also the hypocrisy of "those who fought and died for it". They didn't die for a flag, surely? If they fought over a piece of fabric then they ought to have got their priorities in place. Perhaps they were fighting for a way of life, a freedom for people to be who they want to be, to achieve what they want to achieve, the American dream, with all the freedoms of expression this brings. Unless that freedom of expression could be construed as disrespecting a piece of fabric, then we should remove the freedom of expression.

I have no idea if Hamilton will or won't do this. I can certainly see this is something very close to his heart, if someone wants to counsel him out of it I would guess it would need to be a friend rather than a 'boss'.



He needs (as do we) to separate his 'right' to do it from the good sense of doing it.
He has every right to do it, and I would support him 100% if he was told he could not, but it is not a good idea however right it is.
Head over heart is needed here.


What is his 'good sense' though? I don't think I would do it, but surely me not doing it if I believe its the right thing to do would make me a coward and a sell out? The whole thing which makes the protest brave for anyone doing it is that they risk personal loss by doing so.

Good sense is probably to understand that this is a national thing and for an outsider to take part in this particular protest - being as it is an action against a national flag that could and will be interpreted by many as an insult - is probably a little ill-advised. there are other ways to raise awareness if he feels strongly enough about the issue


I agree its ill-advised. But I don't think he feels like an outsider, and I think it's a bit of a cowards way out if he truly believes he should do this but doesn't.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:50 am 
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Ennis wrote:
moby wrote:
Ennis wrote:
carbonfiber diet wrote:
It's a shame to see Hamilton buying into the false narrative and the fact that he may take a knee and disgrace our flag on American soil is repulsive. By doing so he will join the small minority of idiotic,overpaid celebrity athletes who have no clue about what this flag represents and those who fought and died for it.

His brand and his name will be forever tarnished if he decides to disgrace himself and our flag while a guest in this great country!
:thumbdown:
:thumbdown:


This is a fantastic example of a mentality that so many people cannot comprehend or understand.

As Prema highlighted above, there is brainwashed levels of importance placed in a piece of coloured fabric. It's bizarre to anyone not caught up in it to see grown men and women become so illogical the second a flag or military comes in to play, but brainwashed is a good way to put it (or be more polite and call it 'cultural').

Also the hypocrisy of "those who fought and died for it". They didn't die for a flag, surely? If they fought over a piece of fabric then they ought to have got their priorities in place. Perhaps they were fighting for a way of life, a freedom for people to be who they want to be, to achieve what they want to achieve, the American dream, with all the freedoms of expression this brings. Unless that freedom of expression could be construed as disrespecting a piece of fabric, then we should remove the freedom of expression.

I have no idea if Hamilton will or won't do this. I can certainly see this is something very close to his heart, if someone wants to counsel him out of it I would guess it would need to be a friend rather than a 'boss'.



He needs (as do we) to separate his 'right' to do it from the good sense of doing it.
He has every right to do it, and I would support him 100% if he was told he could not, but it is not a good idea however right it is.
Head over heart is needed here.


What is his 'good sense' though? I don't think I would do it, but surely me not doing it if I believe its the right thing to do would make me a coward and a sell out? The whole thing which makes the protest brave for anyone doing it is that they risk personal loss by doing so.


True, though that would be very few hard-liners, like in this case this dude Kaepernick who is not getting his contract anywhere because of it. But the moment it becomes a kind of a trend, or an organised activity, then anybody can jump the bandwagon and not be in such personal risk. I would love to see how many of these football players taking the knee now would continue doing it if they get to actually face that same choice as Kaepernick. And Hamilton too. Surely he would come into the center of the public attention, being judged by the public as it normally goes... but what personal losses he might be facing... it would depend on what a message he would be getting from his employers. And I definitely don't believe that Hamilton is there. If he really cared, he would had been an uncompromising outspoken activist for BLM since long ago, before this "kneel" became suddenly such a world attraction thanks Mr. Reality Show Donald Trump.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:56 am 
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Ennis wrote:
What is his 'good sense' though? I don't think I would do it, but surely me not doing it if I believe its the right thing to do would make me a coward and a sell out? The whole thing which makes the protest brave for anyone doing it is that they risk personal loss by doing so.


Very strong point Ennis, as was Prema's comment on flag culture. As an example burning the American flag in the USA is an extreme insult, doing the same with the British flag in the UK doesn't hold the same insult and is seen as a political comment. In many ways LH taking the knee is meaningless as he isn't an American, but it does show his support, he also takes a personal risk and quite a big one. It's all very well Mercedes saying there are other ways to protest politically but probably not as effectively as his method.

My concern would be that this could become a distraction from his WDC challenge, but if he does do it, (I think he will,) it will put a lot of his racing peers on the spot. It is inevitable they will be asked where they stand. It'll be interesting to see who ducks the question.

For those that say this doesn't belong in F1, get used to it, The Spanish governments treatment of the Catalonia referendum issue will affect the Barcelona venue I would suggest and I'm sure this won't be the last.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:14 am 
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Hamilton is saying that
"I've not even thought about that race but of course I will have to start to think about it - what would be right for me to do or do I even need to get involved?"

Which tells me that he is not really that concerned about; he is yet to start to think about it, what would be right for him to do. He will be taking his team's advice on it. There will be no conflict there with his racing nor his contractual obligations. He might do it if evaluated to be not really troublesome for him (such as anticipating not too much booing from the crowd, perhaps).

Again, to me it would look just a bit funny to see Hamilton taking the knee before American flag while all the other racers standing there doing their PR duty and not really caring about American flag anyway. And Kimi (if not informed beforehand) might think, "What just did happen to Lewis, did he get a stroke or something in his head or what?".


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:01 pm 
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Its like when you meet someone you dont like in a family wedding, you do what is best for the day, not what you want to. But if you really do feel that strongly.... the options are do what you feel or stay away


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:21 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
jimmyj wrote:
mcdo wrote:
TedStriker wrote:
I'd object to him doing it for a few reasons, the primary being that it has nothing to do with race and has everything to do with sore losers not liking the outcome of a democratic presidential election.

It quite clearly had nothing to do with Trump until Trump decided to get involved

How honestly was the President to ignore an insult to the National Anthem? I don't like Trump one bit, but a President should take offence to such action.

Maybe by doing his job and focusing on real problems

That's a good answer i must admit.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:34 pm 
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jimmyj wrote:
mcdo wrote:
jimmyj wrote:
mcdo wrote:
TedStriker wrote:
I'd object to him doing it for a few reasons, the primary being that it has nothing to do with race and has everything to do with sore losers not liking the outcome of a democratic presidential election.

It quite clearly had nothing to do with Trump until Trump decided to get involved

How honestly was the President to ignore an insult to the National Anthem? I don't like Trump one bit, but a President should take offence to such action.

Maybe by doing his job and focusing on real problems

That's a good answer i must admit.

It is a good answer because the job of the President isn't to fan the flames in a heated debate by taking a side, it is to ease the tensions and be an arbiter acknowledging that both sides are his constituents that are his responsibility to represent.

A good counter example since it also deals with a POC and a white police officer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Louis_Gates_arrest_controversy

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:54 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Genuine question from a non American. What is so disrespectful about kneeling during a national anthem.

Potentially controversial answer from an American:

It's not disrespectful. Kneeling is a gesture of respect, and Kaepernick initially sat during the anthem (legitimately disrespectful) before settling on kneeling after a lengthy discussion on the issue with a veteran. It is being cast as disrespectful by people who wish to silence the movement, because they know that by changing the narrative from highlighting police brutality into disrespecting servicemen, they can get a vastly larger number of people on their side. It's nothing but a misleading tactic to stoke anger against a peaceful protest by hiding the cause and replacing it with a call to patriotism.

That said, I agree with others saying that Lewis kneeling during the anthem would not be well received. It's not his country, and a lot of people here would feel that he doesn't have the right to judge it. However, there is no question it would help increase exposure of the issue, so it's hard for me to say how the people actually involved in the protest (I'm white, so I'm not one of them, although I am sympathetic) would receive it.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:52 pm 
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It wasn't Lewis Hamilton, but someone else decided to make things political at the US GP

https://www.spin.com/2017/10/stevie-won ... formula-1/

Were any of you GP attendees at the Stevie concert?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:59 pm 
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To be fair to Lewis, he has on occasion taken a silver arrow to the knee.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:00 pm 
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Invade wrote:
To be fair to Lewis, he has on occasion taken a silver arrow to the knee.


Ah, an elder scrolls fan then? :nod:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:37 pm 
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moby wrote:
Invade wrote:
To be fair to Lewis, he has on occasion taken a silver arrow to the knee.


Ah, an elder scrolls fan then? :nod:



Hah - to be honest I just know the meme. I would like to play it some though.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:37 pm 
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Invade wrote:
moby wrote:
Invade wrote:
To be fair to Lewis, he has on occasion taken a silver arrow to the knee.


Ah, an elder scrolls fan then? :nod:



Hah - to be honest I just know the meme. I would like to play it some though.


Throughout, you keep meeting watchmen who say ' I used to be an adventurer like you, then I took an arrow in the knee' :lol:


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