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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:39 am 
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RaggedMan wrote:
So how about we simplify the terminology and just say that parts are allocated to the entry. And that there was no way for Ferrari to swap parts or the entire car from Kimi to Seb and shut this thread down.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:31 pm 
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mds wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
Also components are assigned for the car, not driver as mistaken by some here.


But this is not correct. The power units (or its components) are assigned to the driver. Nowhere in the relevant sporting reg section does it say that the components are assigned to the car.

Going by the rest of your explanation I can see that effectively you understand how it works but you really can't say that the components are assigned to the car - they are to the driver or his replacement.

If they were attached to the car then they could swap drivers between cars without further issues and no counts would go up.


And thus, were the components assigned for the car and not the driver, then the teams could ensure, if wanted so, that their No1 driver fighting for the WDC always gets a new PU and whatever other component every second race in the season while the No2 driver takes all the grid penalties for him.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:52 pm 
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funkymonkey wrote:
The components with limits on their use through the season like ICE, Turbo, GearBox, MGU-H, MGU-K once allotted to and used by one car cannot be assigned to other car in the team.

Also components are assigned for the car, not driver as mistaken by some here.


And if you read the Sporting Regulations chapter 23, it is all about the components being assigned for the driver, not the car. Example:

Should a driver use more than four of any one of the elements during a Championship
season, a grid place penalty will be imposed upon him at the first Event during which
each additional element is used. Penalties will be applied according to the following
table and will be cumulative :


Was it allotted for the car, then Vettel could simply take Kimi's car with all brand new components (or in the worst case one race old) whenever they wanted so, and incur no penalties.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:38 pm 
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There are so many ignorant fans of F1 it's beyond ridiculous.

A team can't swap gearbox without being caught but will swap turbos whilst the car has been tagged by the FIA, to touch any part will involve breaking the seal put on it by the FIA.

It seems once Vettel is involved some people lose all sense of reasoning


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:06 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
There are so many ignorant fans of F1 it's beyond ridiculous.

A team can't swap gearbox without being caught but will swap turbos whilst the car has been tagged by the FIA, to touch any part will involve breaking the seal put on it by the FIA.

It seems once Vettel is involved some people lose all sense of reasoning


And if they dont ask if what they think is possible, they stay ignorant, and ridiculed if they do ask


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:21 pm 
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The question posted by the OP was answered by the first respondent, how on earth has this reached a second page?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:20 am 
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Rockie wrote:
There are so many ignorant fans of F1 it's beyond ridiculous.

A team can't swap gearbox without being caught but will swap turbos whilst the car has been tagged by the FIA, to touch any part will involve breaking the seal put on it by the FIA.

It seems once Vettel is involved some people lose all sense of reasoning


Please, calling others stupid is not productive. IMO most fans seeking clarification do not know the rules, and instead of berating them, maybe those who proclaim they know, step up and educate all.

All of the rules in Formula One are published annually by the FIA in the form of two codes, the Technical Regulations, and the Sporting Regulations. This is the FIA's web page where one can find and read the applicable regulations.

https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110

For those leaning towards any conspiracy or shenanigans, surreptitiously changing any part is practically impossible. The teams are not allowed to close the garage doors, the FIA has a monitor at each car, and the entire world is watching. If not the press, other competitors watch each other with an unblinking lethal focus, always watching for any funny stuff. Access to the garage is limited, not only personnel but also the garage is locked down each night. All of the components have some form of identification branded into them, and all parts are carefully monitored. The FIA wrote many rules into the Sporting Regulations just to keep this nonsense difficult. Now the kicker. If a team was discovered to be cheating in this manner, the punishment would be very severe. If Ferrari tried this to Vettel's car and got caught, Vettel would be disqualified from the championship, maybe even Ferrari from the Manufacturer's.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:55 am 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Short answer: No.

Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

:lol: :lol: :thumbup:

You made my day :)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:52 am 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
All of the rules in Formula One are published annually by the FIA in the form of two codes, the Technical Regulations, and the Sporting Regulations. This is the FIA's web page where one can find and read the applicable regulations.

https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110


F1 follow more general codes as well, which can be found here: https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/123

E.g. Appendix L is an important one as well, containing information about the conditions to obtain a super licence.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:43 am 
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New topic started 😂


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:47 am 
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cm97 wrote:
The question posted by the OP was answered by the first respondent, how on earth has this reached a second page?


Partly due to your 2 posts on it that are not relevent


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:53 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Rockie wrote:
There are so many ignorant fans of F1 it's beyond ridiculous.

A team can't swap gearbox without being caught but will swap turbos whilst the car has been tagged by the FIA, to touch any part will involve breaking the seal put on it by the FIA.

It seems once Vettel is involved some people lose all sense of reasoning


Please, calling others stupid is not productive. IMO most fans seeking clarification do not know the rules, and instead of berating them, maybe those who proclaim they know, step up and educate all.

All of the rules in Formula One are published annually by the FIA in the form of two codes, the Technical Regulations, and the Sporting Regulations. This is the FIA's web page where one can find and read the applicable regulations.

https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110

For those leaning towards any conspiracy or shenanigans, surreptitiously changing any part is practically impossible. The teams are not allowed to close the garage doors, the FIA has a monitor at each car, and the entire world is watching. If not the press, other competitors watch each other with an unblinking lethal focus, always watching for any funny stuff. Access to the garage is limited, not only personnel but also the garage is locked down each night. All of the components have some form of identification branded into them, and all parts are carefully monitored. The FIA wrote many rules into the Sporting Regulations just to keep this nonsense difficult. Now the kicker. If a team was discovered to be cheating in this manner, the punishment would be very severe. If Ferrari tried this to Vettel's car and got caught, Vettel would be disqualified from the championship, maybe even Ferrari from the Manufacturer's.


This thread is not seeking information, it's trying to promote a false narrative.

Also I didn't call them stupid.

You can't claim to follow F1 and not know that team mates cannot swap cars even when the spare car was available you could only swap to the spare and not your team mates car.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Rockie wrote:
There are so many ignorant fans of F1 it's beyond ridiculous.

A team can't swap gearbox without being caught but will swap turbos whilst the car has been tagged by the FIA, to touch any part will involve breaking the seal put on it by the FIA.

It seems once Vettel is involved some people lose all sense of reasoning


Please, calling others stupid is not productive. IMO most fans seeking clarification do not know the rules, and instead of berating them, maybe those who proclaim they know, step up and educate all.

All of the rules in Formula One are published annually by the FIA in the form of two codes, the Technical Regulations, and the Sporting Regulations. This is the FIA's web page where one can find and read the applicable regulations.

https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110

For those leaning towards any conspiracy or shenanigans, surreptitiously changing any part is practically impossible. The teams are not allowed to close the garage doors, the FIA has a monitor at each car, and the entire world is watching. If not the press, other competitors watch each other with an unblinking lethal focus, always watching for any funny stuff. Access to the garage is limited, not only personnel but also the garage is locked down each night. All of the components have some form of identification branded into them, and all parts are carefully monitored. The FIA wrote many rules into the Sporting Regulations just to keep this nonsense difficult. Now the kicker. If a team was discovered to be cheating in this manner, the punishment would be very severe. If Ferrari tried this to Vettel's car and got caught, Vettel would be disqualified from the championship, maybe even Ferrari from the Manufacturer's.


This thread is not seeking information, it's trying to promote a false narrative.

Also I didn't call them stupid.

You can't claim to follow F1 and not know that team mates cannot swap cars even when the spare car was available you could only swap to the spare and not your team mates car.



..because no one in F1 history has ever taken a team mate's car? Think you need to look back a bit further than you have. There was some Argentinian chap who did quite well out of it.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:42 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Rockie wrote:
There are so many ignorant fans of F1 it's beyond ridiculous.

A team can't swap gearbox without being caught but will swap turbos whilst the car has been tagged by the FIA, to touch any part will involve breaking the seal put on it by the FIA.

It seems once Vettel is involved some people lose all sense of reasoning


Please, calling others stupid is not productive. IMO most fans seeking clarification do not know the rules, and instead of berating them, maybe those who proclaim they know, step up and educate all.

All of the rules in Formula One are published annually by the FIA in the form of two codes, the Technical Regulations, and the Sporting Regulations. This is the FIA's web page where one can find and read the applicable regulations.

https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110

For those leaning towards any conspiracy or shenanigans, surreptitiously changing any part is practically impossible. The teams are not allowed to close the garage doors, the FIA has a monitor at each car, and the entire world is watching. If not the press, other competitors watch each other with an unblinking lethal focus, always watching for any funny stuff. Access to the garage is limited, not only personnel but also the garage is locked down each night. All of the components have some form of identification branded into them, and all parts are carefully monitored. The FIA wrote many rules into the Sporting Regulations just to keep this nonsense difficult. Now the kicker. If a team was discovered to be cheating in this manner, the punishment would be very severe. If Ferrari tried this to Vettel's car and got caught, Vettel would be disqualified from the championship, maybe even Ferrari from the Manufacturer's.


This thread is not seeking information, it's trying to promote a false narrative.

Also I didn't call them stupid.

You can't claim to follow F1 and not know that team mates cannot swap cars even when the spare car was available you could only swap to the spare and not your team mates car.



..because no one in F1 history has ever taken a team mate's car? Think you need to look back a bit further than you have. There was some Argentinian chap who did quite well out of it.


There are several I know of, one I am unsure off involved Red Bull with a broken floor, but I am not 100% on this.

Edit, This came up when I looked

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/nov/25/lewis-hamilton-nico-rosberg-formula-one


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:50 pm 
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moby wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Rockie wrote:
There are so many ignorant fans of F1 it's beyond ridiculous.

A team can't swap gearbox without being caught but will swap turbos whilst the car has been tagged by the FIA, to touch any part will involve breaking the seal put on it by the FIA.

It seems once Vettel is involved some people lose all sense of reasoning


Please, calling others stupid is not productive. IMO most fans seeking clarification do not know the rules, and instead of berating them, maybe those who proclaim they know, step up and educate all.

All of the rules in Formula One are published annually by the FIA in the form of two codes, the Technical Regulations, and the Sporting Regulations. This is the FIA's web page where one can find and read the applicable regulations.

https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110

For those leaning towards any conspiracy or shenanigans, surreptitiously changing any part is practically impossible. The teams are not allowed to close the garage doors, the FIA has a monitor at each car, and the entire world is watching. If not the press, other competitors watch each other with an unblinking lethal focus, always watching for any funny stuff. Access to the garage is limited, not only personnel but also the garage is locked down each night. All of the components have some form of identification branded into them, and all parts are carefully monitored. The FIA wrote many rules into the Sporting Regulations just to keep this nonsense difficult. Now the kicker. If a team was discovered to be cheating in this manner, the punishment would be very severe. If Ferrari tried this to Vettel's car and got caught, Vettel would be disqualified from the championship, maybe even Ferrari from the Manufacturer's.


This thread is not seeking information, it's trying to promote a false narrative.

Also I didn't call them stupid.

You can't claim to follow F1 and not know that team mates cannot swap cars even when the spare car was available you could only swap to the spare and not your team mates car.



..because no one in F1 history has ever taken a team mate's car? Think you need to look back a bit further than you have. There was some Argentinian chap who did quite well out of it.


There are several I know of, one I am unsure off involved Red Bull with a broken floor, but I am not 100% on this.

Edit, This came up when I looked

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/nov/25/lewis-hamilton-nico-rosberg-formula-one


The Red Bull guys definitely switched chassis at some point, though not explicitly the car. I think Vettel was having an off few races and the team explained it away with micro-fractures on the chassis, although it later popped up in Webber's car and I think he won a race in it (was it the 'not bad for a #2' race? I know he had the FW taken from him around then too).

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
..because no one in F1 history has ever taken a team mate's car? Think you need to look back a bit further than you have. There was some Argentinian chap who did quite well out of it.


What Fangio did back in the 50's is well documented. But that was a very long time ago, and just like the history of safety, the mentality and rules have evolved to minimize any repeats. What happened in the 50's is practically impossible to do today because of this. I was personally involved in unloading the equipment one year, and even in the 70's things were very "loose", with basically zero security.

But one only has to reads the rules and make an overview, and doing any parts swap is just now extremely difficult and fraught with severe penalties.

But all of this is not even a hypothetical discussion, when Vettel was not able to take one lap in qualifying in Malaysia, the team decided that since he was going to start at the back anyways, to change out everything for new components.

So maybe the thread title should be amended to "why should Ferrari drop an old and used turbo into one car when they could have just installed a new one?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:06 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
..because no one in F1 history has ever taken a team mate's car? Think you need to look back a bit further than you have. There was some Argentinian chap who did quite well out of it.


What Fangio did back in the 50's is well documented. But that was a very long time ago, and just like the history of safety, the mentality and rules have evolved to minimize any repeats. What happened in the 50's is practically impossible to do today because of this. I was personally involved in unloading the equipment one year, and even in the 70's things were very "loose", with basically zero security.

But one only has to reads the rules and make an overview, and doing any parts swap is just now extremely difficult and fraught with severe penalties.

But all of this is not even a hypothetical discussion, when Vettel was not able to take one lap in qualifying in Malaysia, the team decided that since he was going to start at the back anyways, to change out everything for new components.

So maybe the thread title should be amended to "why should Ferrari drop an old and used turbo into one car when they could have just installed a new one?


Pretty much. It's a nice conspiracy theory but it falls down under the lightest of examination. I wasn't getting at it being possible due what went on way back when, more imploring a certain chap to educate himself before delivering sermons from on high about the way F1 works/worked in times past.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:25 pm 
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We are in agreement Flash2k11.

One huge disconnect between fans and the reality of the business is that they have been given a fantasy world to believe in, one conjured up by the media. I was in that situation at one time, basically ignorant on how the business is really done, and only when I was properly exposed to Formula One was the veil torn away from my eyes.

The FIA is very aware that teams are willing to "cheat" in order to attain success. But the FIA has put in place measures that make such acts basically impossible.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:23 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
..because no one in F1 history has ever taken a team mate's car? Think you need to look back a bit further than you have. There was some Argentinian chap who did quite well out of it.


What Fangio did back in the 50's is well documented. But that was a very long time ago, and just like the history of safety, the mentality and rules have evolved to minimize any repeats. What happened in the 50's is practically impossible to do today because of this. I was personally involved in unloading the equipment one year, and even in the 70's things were very "loose", with basically zero security.

But one only has to reads the rules and make an overview, and doing any parts swap is just now extremely difficult and fraught with severe penalties.

But all of this is not even a hypothetical discussion, when Vettel was not able to take one lap in qualifying in Malaysia, the team decided that since he was going to start at the back anyways, to change out everything for new components.

So maybe the thread title should be amended to "why should Ferrari drop an old and used turbo into one car when they could have just installed a new one?


Pretty much. It's a nice conspiracy theory but it falls down under the lightest of examination. I wasn't getting at it being possible due what went on way back when, more imploring a certain chap to educate himself before delivering sermons from on high about the way F1 works/worked in times past.


If one is a fan and knows the history of F1 upto say Fagio switching chassis, then it won't be hard not to entertain this thread.

I don't need to educate myself as I know it's beyond ridiculous what is being suggested in this thread, no high horse here as its beyond ridiculous and I still maintain had this been anyone else other than Vettel it won't be suggested.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:29 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
..because no one in F1 history has ever taken a team mate's car? Think you need to look back a bit further than you have. There was some Argentinian chap who did quite well out of it.


What Fangio did back in the 50's is well documented. But that was a very long time ago, and just like the history of safety, the mentality and rules have evolved to minimize any repeats. What happened in the 50's is practically impossible to do today because of this. I was personally involved in unloading the equipment one year, and even in the 70's things were very "loose", with basically zero security.

But one only has to reads the rules and make an overview, and doing any parts swap is just now extremely difficult and fraught with severe penalties.

But all of this is not even a hypothetical discussion, when Vettel was not able to take one lap in qualifying in Malaysia, the team decided that since he was going to start at the back anyways, to change out everything for new components.

So maybe the thread title should be amended to "why should Ferrari drop an old and used turbo into one car when they could have just installed a new one?


Pretty much. It's a nice conspiracy theory but it falls down under the lightest of examination. I wasn't getting at it being possible due what went on way back when, more imploring a certain chap to educate himself before delivering sermons from on high about the way F1 works/worked in times past.


If one is a fan and knows the history of F1 upto say Fagio switching chassis, then it won't be hard not to entertain this thread.

I don't need to educate myself as I know it's beyond ridiculous what is being suggested in this thread, no high horse here as its beyond ridiculous and I still maintain had this been anyone else other than Vettel it won't be suggested.


I do not mean this in a 'in your face' sort of way so dont take it as a slap, but why not just look at the thread title, grunt, and move on to the next one?

The board is full of 'my driver is better than your driver' threads and is always going to be unless tightly regulated. Maybe 70% of the threads are worth reading, some even if you only want light banter.

Its the nature of the beast, dont let it get to you.


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