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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:35 pm 
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Planet F1 is saying, in two separate articles, that Vettel's gearbox is shot and he will have to take a 5 grid position penalty next race.

Maybe disaster is too strong a word for a 5 grid position penalty, but Ferrari are surely having a pretty impressive display of bad luck.

The two articles that mention Vettel's destroyed gearbox:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/vettel-alonso-didnt-act-like-a-ferrari-fan//

http://www.planetf1.com/news/no-further-action-on-bizarre-strollvettel-crash/


Last edited by Herb Tarlik on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:48 pm 
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Fate it appears does not want him to win the 2017 wdc. I thought Stroll made the greater change of direction in their incident but it really doesn't matter as it won't get his gearbox back. Vettel had a long stretch of good luck as well as his great ability in winning those 4 wdcs for Red Bull, maybe this year good fortune is just not going to be on his side.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:02 pm 
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I wonder if Ferrari can appeal a gearbox penalty to the FIA on the grounds that it was Stroll's fault.

I don't think it's ever happened before, but it is worth a try. They have the evidence on worldwide television.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:05 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
I wonder if Ferrari can appeal a gearbox penalty to the FIA on the grounds that it was Stroll's fault.

I don't think it's ever happened before, but it is worth a try. They have the evidence on worldwide television.


If they were to appeal, I would think it would be on the same grounds as an item damaged in transit, as the race had finished and the cars were making their way back to the recovery area.

I think this means it is allowed if a poll of all teams agree to it


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:08 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
I wonder if Ferrari can appeal a gearbox penalty to the FIA on the grounds that it was Stroll's fault.

I don't think it's ever happened before, but it is worth a try. They have the evidence on worldwide television.


But the stewards did not assign fault to Stroll.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:13 pm 
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I have read it should be ok.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:31 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
I wonder if Ferrari can appeal a gearbox penalty to the FIA on the grounds that it was Stroll's fault.

I don't think it's ever happened before, but it is worth a try. They have the evidence on worldwide television.

The only evidence that has appeared on worldwide television are the reportings of the stewards enquiries which have concluded that the official and legal conclusion to the incident is that blame cannot be apportioned to either party.

Therefore such evidence would and can only support a verdict that it is not Stroll's fault.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:42 pm 
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Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:00 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Planet F1 is saying, in two separate articles, that Vettel's gearbox is shot and he will have to take a 5 grid position penalty next race.

Maybe disaster is too strong a word for a 5 grid position penalty, but Ferrari are surely having a pretty impressive display of bad luck.

The two articles that mention Vettel's destroyed gearbox:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/vettel-alonso-didnt-act-like-a-ferrari-fan//

http://www.planetf1.com/news/no-further-action-on-bizarre-strollvettel-crash/

Vettel's talking like Ferrari will get a special dispensation for changing his gearbox, given that Stroll wasn't penalised by the stewards and Vettel was passing Stroll for no good reason I wonder how they will make that work?

Like Stroll said Vettel was coming past him like they were still in a race.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:01 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
I wonder if Ferrari can appeal a gearbox penalty to the FIA on the grounds that it was Stroll's fault.

I don't think it's ever happened before, but it is worth a try. They have the evidence on worldwide television.

Apart from you and Vettel were is the official line that it was Stroll's fault?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:03 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
I wonder if Ferrari can appeal a gearbox penalty to the FIA on the grounds that it was Stroll's fault.

I don't think it's ever happened before, but it is worth a try. They have the evidence on worldwide television.


But the stewards did not assign fault to Stroll.

Indeed. I think that is more than enough evidence that no matter how badly Vettel's car is damaged, he won't get a gear box change without a penalty. Even if it was Stroll's fault, I don't think they would allow Ferrari to get a free gear box change somehow. Because getting a brand new one without penalties as this stage can only be considered as a slight advantage as it is less likely to go wrong in the remaining races as it will have done less distance. I know things could go either way and it could be just as likely fail, but I just don't think they would allow this. If Stroll was to blame, he would have probably be given some penalty points and a grid drop for next race. I think this indicated that at the worst, it was both of the drivers at fault, but I somehow feel more likely that as Vettel suffered the consequences and they still took no further action, then I feel they may have but most of the blame on Vettel.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:03 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.

If Stroll had been behind Vettel then you would have had a point.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:42 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.

If Stroll had been behind Vettel then you would have had a point.

Just leave aside who is to blame for the moment. The fact that a competitor gets penalised for changing a part that was involved in accident is surely absurd?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:45 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.



Exactly.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:51 pm 
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It's Ferrari. They can probably convince the authorities to grant them a special dispensation.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:51 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.

If Stroll had been behind Vettel then you would have had a point.

Just leave aside who is to blame for the moment. The fact that a competitor gets penalised for changing a part that was involved in accident is surely absurd?

Them's the rules you can't change them to suit, also what's been pointed out giving Vettel a brand new gearbox gives him an advantage over Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:53 pm 
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Invade wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.



Exactly.

Another thing how is that further penalising Vettel?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:54 pm 
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I'm just watching a TV program about Boris Johnson. I thought you meant he was going to Suzuka.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:01 pm 
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Invade wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.



Exactly.


Except he wasn't 'rammed'. Its a 'racing incident' so the blame is 50:50


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:28 pm 
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The 'box is fine and has been flown to Italy for repairs.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:16 am 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
The 'box is fine and has been flown to Italy for repairs.


That news will break the hearts of a couple of our posters on this thread!
:lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:53 am 
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Well, its either fine or it needs repairs lol

If its just the casing that is broken, then yes, it can be repaired. If its something further, Ferrari will be taking one hell of a risk with it. 5 places is a drop in the ocean compared to a gearbox related DNF.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:56 am 
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Is it a complete disaster though? IF they can get the gearbox back in order, they're set. Worst case there, 5 places in Suzuka. Not ideal, but not a disaster I wouldn't think. Did Vettel also not take 2 NEW engines this weekend? Effectively meaning he has one fresh ICE, and one fresh minus any wear from the race ICE? Ditto the TC, MGU-H?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:13 am 
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JackAttack_19 wrote:
Is it a complete disaster though? IF they can get the gearbox back in order, they're set. Worst case there, 5 places in Suzuka. Not ideal, but not a disaster I wouldn't think. Did Vettel also not take 2 NEW engines this weekend? Effectively meaning he has one fresh ICE, and one fresh minus any wear from the race ICE? Ditto the TC, MGU-H?


Of course it would be a complete disaster. No matter what he did in qualifying he'd start behind both mercs and both red bulls at a circuit they should go well at (assuming normal qually results)

I don't think hell need a new gearbox. It wasnt a big collision, people just getting overexcited about ifs.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:40 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.



Exactly.

Another thing how is that further penalising Vettel?

If he has to take a penalty.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:40 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Invade wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.



Exactly.


Except he wasn't 'rammed'. Its a 'racing incident' so the blame is 50:50

way to miss the point


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:42 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.

If Stroll had been behind Vettel then you would have had a point.

Just leave aside who is to blame for the moment. The fact that a competitor gets penalised for changing a part that was involved in accident is surely absurd?

Them's the rules you can't change them to suit, also what's been pointed out giving Vettel a brand new gearbox gives him an advantage over Hamilton.

I'm not sure I said you should change them to suit? I'm highlighting the absurdity of potentially punishing someone for the consequences of an accident, regardless of who was at fault


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:43 am 
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flyboy10 wrote:
It's Ferrari. They can probably convince the authorities to grant them a special dispensation.

because that happens all the time?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:50 am 
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Zazu wrote:
JackAttack_19 wrote:
Is it a complete disaster though? IF they can get the gearbox back in order, they're set. Worst case there, 5 places in Suzuka. Not ideal, but not a disaster I wouldn't think. Did Vettel also not take 2 NEW engines this weekend? Effectively meaning he has one fresh ICE, and one fresh minus any wear from the race ICE? Ditto the TC, MGU-H?


Of course it would be a complete disaster. No matter what he did in qualifying he'd start behind both mercs and both red bulls at a circuit they should go well at (assuming normal qually results)

I don't think hell need a new gearbox. It wasnt a big collision, people just getting overexcited about ifs.


Starting 6th-8th in Japan would be a disaster for Vettel, that is probably worse than starting last in Malaysia. If Hamilton finishes ahead of him again, he starts to run out races. Especially if Hamilton wins and he is say 3rd/4th.

These gearboxs are fragile, this suspension failure required a new gearbox for Nico -

https://youtu.be/6g4jCRECYoI?t=1m22s

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:16 am 
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Why does the replacement have to be brand new? Why can't he be given an intact gearbox with similar mileage to the damaged one to maintain performance parity?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:27 am 
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In the rosberg clip there was a huge shunt into the barrier

I don't understand why people think he shouldn't incur a penalty. It was unfortunate but stewards called it 50/50. Just a bad day at the office


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:48 am 
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i 'd like to know the size of the repair bills that Ferrari have faced in the last few weeks

and think of the Ferrari repair people -they are getting some practice in at the moment

and wasn't stroll picking up rubber , and they sometimes move about a bit

and why does vettel keeps finding himself in these silly positions and after a brilliant comeback too

and the image of vettel coming round the corner with his rear wheel up above the rear wing will be played again and again and was funny
just as the caption " driver of the day -sebasian vettel " was scrolling across the bottom of the screen , lol


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:43 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Well, its either fine or it needs repairs lol

If its just the casing that is broken, then yes, it can be repaired. If its something further, Ferrari will be taking one hell of a risk with it. 5 places is a drop in the ocean compared to a gearbox related DNF.


Fine in the sense that it can be re-used.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.

If Stroll had been behind Vettel then you would have had a point.

Just leave aside who is to blame for the moment. The fact that a competitor gets penalised for changing a part that was involved in accident is surely absurd?

Totally agree.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:29 pm 
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slide wrote:
i 'd like to know the size of the repair bills that Ferrari have faced in the last few weeks

and think of the Ferrari repair people -they are getting some practice in at the moment

and wasn't stroll picking up rubber , and they sometimes move about a bit

and why does vettel keeps finding himself in these silly positions and after a brilliant comeback too

and the image of vettel coming round the corner with his rear wheel up above the rear wing will be played again and again and was funny
just as the caption " driver of the day -sebasian vettel " was scrolling across the bottom of the screen , lol


interesting article from martin brundle (find it yourselves) about vettels sense of entitlement bordering on disrespectful actions on the race track. i generally agree with how brundle sees things and with this too. many of his incidents over the years could be put in the 'driving around the track like you own it and you are the only thing that matters' category.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:59 pm 
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Yes, it is a good one, Brundle's comments reflect the feeling of Coulthard and Webber on C4, that is a better way of saying what other posters on here have described as arrogance and might in part explain his magnetic attraction to other cars.
Link below: http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24182/11062777/attitude-and-aggravation-could-cost-sebastian-vettel-the-f1-world-title


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:45 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Yes, it is a good one, Brundle's comments reflect the feeling of Coulthard and Webber on C4, that is a better way of saying what other posters on here have described as arrogance and might in part explain his magnetic attraction to other cars.
Link below: http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24182/11062777/attitude-and-aggravation-could-cost-sebastian-vettel-the-f1-world-title


I respect Brundle, but he went a bit overboard here.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:24 pm 
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Maybe he should stop crashing into people? Sure, it wasn't all his fault I get that but had he been more aware the situation could have easily been avoided.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:26 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Yes, it is a good one, Brundle's comments reflect the feeling of Coulthard and Webber on C4, that is a better way of saying what other posters on here have described as arrogance and might in part explain his magnetic attraction to other cars.
Link below: http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24182/11062777/attitude-and-aggravation-could-cost-sebastian-vettel-the-f1-world-title

I respect Brundle, but he went a bit overboard here.

Hmm... stopped reading it after 'intentionally hit another car behind the Safety Car in Baku.'

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:39 pm 
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max summed it up , you shouldn't drive like that if you are close to a title , kimi had nothing to lose, max had nothing to lose


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