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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:06 am 
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This season is having shades of 2005 to it, with Ferrari/Vettel being the McLaren/Kimi package and Mercedes/Hamilton being Renault/Vettel.

Ferrari have built a very fast, but very fragile car, yet the Merc is virtually bullet proof, faster at some circuits but when Ferrari has its act together it's the faster car.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:15 am 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Curious that Max asks if he can overtake Hamilton due to him being a championship contender but dives down the inside of Vettel at every opportunity.

Vettel has made an enemy in the wrong place in Max IMO, not that it matters now but that may well have proved decisive in the championship.



I feel Max has more respect for Hamilton and very very little for Vettel. Hamilton he can still learn from and is at the moment mahbe the best driver on the grid.

You can also tell there is mutual respect already when looking at Hamilton having a chat with Max after the race.


Ricciardo is a great driver and will do fine. I do feel he knows it will be difficult to be the "top dog" in a team with Max. We will see how this year ends and how next year will go.

The one thing that I don't like too much is Ricciardo asking for attention when Max is speaking, like after the race with the press throwing water etc. It looks like fun and all but I feel thst if it was Max starting this it wouldn't be that funny for him. He is a great guy, but there id a time and place for certain things.


Max definitely more conscious about colliding with Hamilton. I think the request this race was more to do with potential tyre issues however.

Max probably eyeing that Merc seat so will trying to endere himself with the team. You never know Lewis might spring a surprise reirement at end of season.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:36 am 
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gregs51 wrote:
You never know Lewis might spring a surprise reirement at end of season.

It's not entirely off the cards but he mentioned Schumy's 91 a few races back, I think he might stick around and try and beat it!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:15 am 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
gregs51 wrote:
You never know Lewis might spring a surprise reirement at end of season.

It's not entirely off the cards but he mentioned Schumy's 91 a few races back, I think he might stick around and try and beat it!


I think Hamilton will continue for another 3-4 seasons as long as he has a competitive car. There is no reason to think that he won't as of right now. The only thing that could make him reconsider would be getting paired with a faster teammate, but it's unlikely that anyone would be significantly faster. Perhaps Max can edge him in a couple of years.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:31 am 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
lamo wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Quote:
@adamcooperF1
VET has received a reprimand for failing to attend the national anthem on the grid


This is a ridiculous penalty, a fine would be suffice. A penalty that can result in a grid penalty for missing an anthem is not appropriate.


It never rains, eh. Though it seems to be a continuation of the theme where Vettel seems to be doing niggly little things that are technically infringements but not really a big deal; if you keep doing things like that, the stewards start to take notice as it all adds up. Wonder what his reason was for missing it?


Does a reprimand lead to a grid penalty? I agree we don't know why, but it is not very sporting is it, don't you just smile for the camera on that sort of money!

Or perhaps he was concerned he might slag of his team, I said it after Malaysia Ferrari have dropped the ball, if the issue was simply a spark plug then that is deplorable, it not as though testing a plug is hard!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:36 am 
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IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Any bets on how meekly Bottas will let Hamilton go this time? Last time he went off the road to let his boss by, I reckon this time he'll park on the highway next to the track.

Right I see were this is going now, you're real disappointment is with Hamilton winning.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:37 am 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
I know a lot of people rate Ocon as a driver but looking at the numbers of his battle with Checo it isn't pretty reading.

Qualifying - Perez 11 - 4 Ocon
Races - Perez 10 - 3 Ocon
Points - Perez 76 - 57 Ocon

Looking like Perez's season against Button in 2013 which was enough for them to discard him as a top tier driver... I can't seeing Ocon getting the Mercedes racing seat unless he improves dramatically.

Yes I've broached this before, Perez is nearly always quicker.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:37 am 
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sure i heard vettel say this weekend 'what goes around comes around'. couldnt agree more.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:38 am 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Shows how hard it is to overtake, Hamilton couldn't get close enough to Bottas.

Seems to be even worse if you are in a Mercedes.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:40 am 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Every single team on the grid would have done the same thing :nod:

Not Red Bull, not Ferrari (at least in China).

You do realise that Bottas was a pit stop behind?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:42 am 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
There is literally no point in 3 different compounds for each race. They always one stop, they need to change the tyres so there are more options for strategy.

I agree that 2 stop races are better for strategy. The problem is how do you do that while keeping the tyres that drivers can push on? I don't want to see them go back to cheese tyres but I would like to see strategy play a bigger part.

In an ideal world it would be tyres that wear the same no matter how you treat them and then drop off a cliff rapidly after x many laps, pushing everyone into a 2 stop race.


I prefer cheese tyres but that's just me. Watching the cars go round on the softest compounds for so long, all stop then race over is getting boring.
If you make the cars so they can't overtake you need to allow for strategy options.
Maybe using the US instead of the mediums could have made a difference.

The cheese tyres provided farcical racing.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:47 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Curious that Max asks if he can overtake Hamilton due to him being a championship contender but dives down the inside of Vettel at every opportunity.

Vettel has made an enemy in the wrong place in Max IMO, not that it matters now but that may well have proved decisive in the championship.

He asked because his front tyre was marginal, it nearly wore out.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:49 am 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Hamilton reporting his vibrations were coming from his Power Unit following upshifts - so depending on the cause he could be down an engine

I think he said it was when he was short shifting, Mercedes think he was hearing demons.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:52 am 
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Covalent wrote:
Well done Lewis, WDC is yours...

He still needs 41 points, the Ferrari in Vettel's hands could win the last 4 races, that would make Hamilton needing 3 more podiums, it's still not over.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:54 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
KMag again with some dodgy driving

Thought that was fine, as did Brundle

He hit Massa's car, the fine bit probably is that it's not something to concern the stewards


Massa hit K-Mag really. Turned in on him when Magnussen was alongside. Massa was to blame for the contact that's for sure.

You might be right because Massa said his right wing mirror was broken and he couldn't see.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:03 am 
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wire2004 wrote:
snippets from toto talking to sky.
hamiltons engine was managed from when seb retired.
there was no engine gremlins and was just cold tyres.

mathematical permutations for Austin.
if Lewis wins. he is champion if seb finnished 5th or lower.

That's interesting about the engine because Hamilton didn't look much quicker than Bottas in the race.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:08 am 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
And what we saw from Bottas today, wow. Clearly number two driver now if he wasn't already.

He was a pit stop behind, why would he hold up Hamilton for the benefit of both Verstappen and Red Bull?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:08 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Clarky wrote:
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@adamcooperF1
VET has received a reprimand for failing to attend the national anthem on the grid

Missing the national anthem gets punished? Wow how absurd!


what if he needed a s***?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:09 am 
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pokerman wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
I know a lot of people rate Ocon as a driver but looking at the numbers of his battle with Checo it isn't pretty reading.

Qualifying - Perez 11 - 4 Ocon
Races - Perez 10 - 3 Ocon
Points - Perez 76 - 57 Ocon

Looking like Perez's season against Button in 2013 which was enough for them to discard him as a top tier driver... I can't seeing Ocon getting the Mercedes racing seat unless he improves dramatically.

Yes I've broached this before, Perez is nearly always quicker.


Very unusual for a rookie to out score their more experienced team mate in their rookie year. I believe Bottas is the only driver on the grid currently who managed it. I'm sure Ocon will improve. Drivers usually make big improvements in their second year.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:10 am 
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mds must have drowned in his own tears.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:11 am 
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JN23 wrote:
Did Vettel take an extra engine last week in Malaysia meaning he will avoid a penalty as he will not have to take a new one in Austin?

Yep he should be good to go for the rest of the season.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:14 am 
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lamo wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Very impressed with how Max conducted his interview with Sky. He was very frank and mature, and pointed out that the traffic didn't cost him the win, because if the traffic hadn't been there then he wouldn't have caught Hamilton in the first place, because of the way the Mercedes was affected from following other cars he benefited from it more than he lost out.

It's of the most mature and honest interviews I've seen from a driver.


Yes, good and frank interview. Funny that he suggested Bottas should have blocked him harder and held him up even longer to protect Lewis since he is the WDC challenger.

Bottas was called into the pits for tyres, they basically didn't want to ruin his race, a true #2 would have stayed out to protect his supposed team leader.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:15 am 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
lamo wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Quote:
@adamcooperF1
VET has received a reprimand for failing to attend the national anthem on the grid


This is a ridiculous penalty, a fine would be suffice. A penalty that can result in a grid penalty for missing an anthem is not appropriate.


It never rains, eh. Though it seems to be a continuation of the theme where Vettel seems to be doing niggly little things that are technically infringements but not really a big deal; if you keep doing things like that, the stewards start to take notice as it all adds up. Wonder what his reason was for missing it?

Probably concerns over his car?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:18 am 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
sure i heard vettel say this weekend 'what goes around comes around'. couldnt agree more.

Yep.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:21 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
I know a lot of people rate Ocon as a driver but looking at the numbers of his battle with Checo it isn't pretty reading.

Qualifying - Perez 11 - 4 Ocon
Races - Perez 10 - 3 Ocon
Points - Perez 76 - 57 Ocon

Looking like Perez's season against Button in 2013 which was enough for them to discard him as a top tier driver... I can't seeing Ocon getting the Mercedes racing seat unless he improves dramatically.

Yes I've broached this before, Perez is nearly always quicker.


Very unusual for a rookie to out score their more experienced team mate in their rookie year. I believe Bottas is the only driver on the grid currently who managed it. I'm sure Ocon will improve. Drivers usually make big improvements in their second year.

Yes but also he needs to.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:23 am 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
Ricciardo is a great driver and will do fine. I do feel he knows it will be difficult to be the "top dog" in a team with Max. We will see how this year ends and how next year will go.

Max is making Dan look like a good driver rather than a great driver. Still plenty of good drivers have won more races and titles than great drivers. Vettel and Alonso, a case in point.

Hard to take ya seriously with that faeces

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:26 am 
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Exactly - had Ocon not illegally defended - Dan would have been seriously closer and who knows


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:30 am 
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Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:33 am 
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Ennis wrote:
Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.

You do realise that Alonso had to see the stewards about impeding Hamilton?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:33 am 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
I know a lot of people rate Ocon as a driver but looking at the numbers of his battle with Checo it isn't pretty reading.

Qualifying - Perez 11 - 4 Ocon
Races - Perez 10 - 3 Ocon
Points - Perez 76 - 57 Ocon

Looking like Perez's season against Button in 2013 which was enough for them to discard him as a top tier driver... I can't seeing Ocon getting the Mercedes racing seat unless he improves dramatically.


On the contrary, he will get. I can't give the numbers now but the difference between them in qualy has been on an average of 2 tenths of a second. Ocon is also more comfy in wet conditions when compared to Checo.

Ocon was destined for a higher finish in Malaysia but clashes from Massa & Sainz ruined his race. Still he managed a point.

Hulk never managed to really put Checo under much pressure but Ocon is doing so. This is his 1st complete year in F1. He has developed & is upto speed already.

Ocon now holds the record for the most consecutive race finishes since debut -25. Force India's faith in hiring him is completely justified.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:34 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.

You do realise that Alonso had to see the stewards about impeding Hamilton?


Yeah but he was only fake impeding so he could time the impeding of Verstappen better going in to the final lap.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:35 am 
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Ennis wrote:
Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.

Alonso definitely holds Hamilton in higher regard than Vettel - if only because Hamilton is the only team mate that is considered to have matched him.

However, Alonso didn't help Hamilton he hindered him. He received a reprimand for holding Hamilton up for nearly a whole lap, as he was shown the blue flags between turns 14 and 15 on lap 51 but did not let him past until turn 11 on lap 52, and this enabled Verstappen to really close the gap, whereas he only held Verstappen up for 2 corners.

When questioned by Sky whether he thought he could at any point win the race, Verstappen even stated that the only reason he got close to Hamilton was because of how badly Hamilton got held up by the backmarkers.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:38 am 
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pokerman wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Did Vettel take an extra engine last week in Malaysia meaning he will avoid a penalty as he will not have to take a new one in Austin?

Yep he should be good to go for the rest of the season.


Thought so, cheers.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:39 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
I know a lot of people rate Ocon as a driver but looking at the numbers of his battle with Checo it isn't pretty reading.

Qualifying - Perez 11 - 4 Ocon
Races - Perez 10 - 3 Ocon
Points - Perez 76 - 57 Ocon

Looking like Perez's season against Button in 2013 which was enough for them to discard him as a top tier driver... I can't seeing Ocon getting the Mercedes racing seat unless he improves dramatically.


On the contrary, he will get. I can't give the numbers now but the difference between them in qualy has been on an average of 2 tenths of a second. Ocon is also more comfy in wet conditions when compared to Checo.

Ocon was destined for a higher finish in Malaysia but clashes from Massa & Sainz ruined his race. Still he managed a point.

Hulk never managed to really put Checo under much pressure but Ocon is doing so. This is his 1st complete year in F1. He has developed & is upto speed already.

Ocon now holds the record for the most consecutive race finishes since debut -25. Force India's faith in hiring him is completely justified.

Although Perez scored more points than the Hulk, qualifying was very even with the Hulk having a slight edge and also they were equal in head to head finishes, Perez leads Ocon comfortably in both qualifying and head to head finishes.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:40 am 
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Ennis wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.

You do realise that Alonso had to see the stewards about impeding Hamilton?


Yeah but he was only fake impeding so he could time the impeding of Verstappen better going in to the final lap.

I'm just wondering how you can have fake impeding? :?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:44 am 
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Ennis wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.

You do realise that Alonso had to see the stewards about impeding Hamilton?


Yeah but he was only fake impeding so he could time the impeding of Verstappen better going in to the final lap.


Wtf is "fake impeding". :lol:
Seriously ... that sounds like nonsense.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:54 am 
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So Ferrari didnt replace the faulty spark plug:

Quote:
@NobleF1
Ferrari ran out of time before race start to change faulty spark plug on Sebastian Vettel's car


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:01 am 
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fake impeding - I've heard it all now lol


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:04 am 
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Ennis wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.

You do realise that Alonso had to see the stewards about impeding Hamilton?


Yeah but he was only fake impeding so he could time the impeding of Verstappen better going in to the final lap.


That's some plan from Alonso. I'm pretty sure he was focusing on trying to get a point for his team rather than concocting a scheme to annoy Seb.

They clearly don't like each other but I think that's a bit far fetched.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:27 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Ennis wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.

You do realise that Alonso had to see the stewards about impeding Hamilton?


Yeah but he was only fake impeding so he could time the impeding of Verstappen better going in to the final lap.


That's some plan from Alonso. I'm pretty sure he was focusing on trying to get a point for his team rather than concocting a scheme to annoy Seb.

They clearly don't like each other but I think that's a bit far fetched.

Sometimes, I have to wonder at the thought process that goes into some of the conspiracy theories.

it's one thing to sit on your sofa watching the race thinking "If I wait to let past Hamilton an Verstappen until the penultimate lap then that will give Hamilton a greater change to win the race, which will give him more points in his fight against Vettel, seven more in fact, and Vettel retired so it will be like really really useful to him"

It's a completely different thing when you are on a race track, fighting for position in an underpowered car, exhausted after 90 minutes of race, and suddenly you start seeing the blue flags - and then, inbetween taking high G force corners every few seconds go and make the same logical deduction in your head and think "yeah, that will be tricky to pull off, but it's totally worth potentially screwing my entire race up over"


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