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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Reading about Bottas's struggles in the Merc versus Hamilton, I think it's tough to compare drivers with any degree of certainty. From what's been said Bottas is struggling with the tyres whereas Hamilton seems to be able to drive around the problem. So the gap from Bottas to Hamilton seems bigger than it really is. On the other hand we hear today also that Red Bull have the 'best' chassis, which begs the question how would Bottas compare to Max in the RB and how would Verstappen compare to Hamilton in the Merc?

All this comparing is so much smoke and mirrors.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:15 pm 
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babararacucudada wrote:
This year was hyped as a great battle between Hamilton and Vettel - and that lasted 2/3 of the season. Bottas hasn't looked like a threat to Hamilton, but has won races. The rest of 2017, the title race is dead.

How could the title race be dead when the guy behind in the points had a much faster car in the last couple of races? 5 races left is a long way to go

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:44 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
babararacucudada wrote:
This year was hyped as a great battle between Hamilton and Vettel - and that lasted 2/3 of the season. Bottas hasn't looked like a threat to Hamilton, but has won races. The rest of 2017, the title race is dead.

How could the title race be dead when the guy behind in the points had a much faster car in the last couple of races? 5 races left is a long way to go

34 pts behind, if Vettel wins every race now he is wdc regardless of where Hamilton finishes. However no margin for any more errors/mistakes/unreliability now.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:14 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
How we decide that Bottas wasn't that good before he joined Mercedes?

Not entirely sure that answers my question? :?

Because you made that statement, what evidence did you have?

Then you question how someone knows that Rosberg is better than Ricciardo in qualifying and the rain?

Which statement? I didn't even mention Bottas in the post you replied to. You've confused me!

In this very thread you said you never rated Bottas so I wondered how do we compare that he's never been that good like you ask the poster that said that Rosberg was better than Ricciardo in qualifying and the wet, I mean how did you compare because before the season started he never had been beat by a teammate?

I originally let it go because it was just your opinion that you are entitled to, but then when someone gives his opinion you're basically saying that it's not possible to determine that, so I'm thinking alright so how do you determine what you said?

I've written about Bottas before, particularly when he was mooted to replace Kimi at Ferrari and I thought he wouldn't have been an upgrade. I had to go digging out my quotes previously after being accused of making it up to defend Vettel and I don't see why I should do it again. I don't think he's bad, but he doesn't really excite me. He has had some good moments but overall nothing special. That's pretty much it, really.

So, how do you conclude Rosberg is better than Ricciardo in qualifying and the wet? That's quite specific


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Basically the same thing that happened with Robserg is happening with Bottas. There are now people in the forum trying to say that Bottas is terrible based solely on his inability to match Hamilton. As if matching Lewis Hamilton's performance is some kind of bare minimum lol. I always found it funny the way people tried to bash Rosberg when it was very obvious that he was one of maybe 3 drivers who could actually hang with Lewis in terms of speed and performance and be real competition for him.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:38 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Basically the same thing that happened with Robserg is happening with Bottas. There are now people in the forum trying to say that Bottas is terrible based solely on his inability to match Hamilton. As if matching Lewis Hamilton's performance is some kind of bare minimum lol. I always found it funny the way people tried to bash Rosberg when it was very obvious that he was one of maybe 3 drivers who could actually hang with Lewis in terms of speed and performance and be real competition for him.


I think if you're regularly half a second off anyone then you're an average standard driver. Go back to 08-12 when the field was really close and being that far off Hamilton would be putting Bottas back to the lower end of the points rather than on the podium. It's the field spread that is making Bottas look OK TBH.

Bottas is actually making Rosberg look a lot better.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:53 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Basically the same thing that happened with Robserg is happening with Bottas. There are now people in the forum trying to say that Bottas is terrible based solely on his inability to match Hamilton. As if matching Lewis Hamilton's performance is some kind of bare minimum lol. I always found it funny the way people tried to bash Rosberg when it was very obvious that he was one of maybe 3 drivers who could actually hang with Lewis in terms of speed and performance and be real competition for him.

That's just not true, I'm afraid. I'd say the reverse is more accurate: that any criticism of Hamilton's team mates are dismissed as critique of Hamilton himself, even when there's no evidence of such.

I've already provided evidence of me doubting Rosberg long before he became a team mate of Hamilton's, and below is what I wrote about Bottas in 2015, again long before Mercedes was a future prospect for him:

I still don't quite get the love for Bottas. I think he's good, but I don't think he's special. He can defend OK but otherwise I find him vaguely reminiscent of Rosberg: solid but unspectacular. If Ferrari are looking for a Number 2, then maybe he will be worth a look, but I'd be disappointed in their ambitions if that were true. On balance I'd say Seb hasn't looked superior to Kimi on Sundays, although he's been undeniably superior in qualifying. But if I were Ferrari I'd be looking for someone with the potential to be better in both qualifying and the race. And I don't think that's Bottas

http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12199&hilit=bottas+not+good+enough&start=40

And I'll bet I'm not the only one. The world doesn't revolve around Hamilton and drivers aren't judged merely by how they compare to him.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 1:57 pm 
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Yeah you don't need to beat him or be as close as Alonso but you need to be getting JB-Nico levels of results or you're going to be viewed as the next step down from those two which is midfield and Heikki land. At the beginning Bottas was looking Rosberg like and got the credit and lately he's looked like Heikki so is getting the rough end.

Seems only fair.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:13 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Basically the same thing that happened with Robserg is happening with Bottas. There are now people in the forum trying to say that Bottas is terrible based solely on his inability to match Hamilton. As if matching Lewis Hamilton's performance is some kind of bare minimum lol. I always found it funny the way people tried to bash Rosberg when it was very obvious that he was one of maybe 3 drivers who could actually hang with Lewis in terms of speed and performance and be real competition for him.

That's just not true, I'm afraid. I'd say the reverse is more accurate: that any criticism of Hamilton's team mates are dismissed as critique of Hamilton himself, even when there's no evidence of such.

I've already provided evidence of me doubting Rosberg long before he became a team mate of Hamilton's, and below is what I wrote about Bottas in 2015, again long before Mercedes was a future prospect for him:

I still don't quite get the love for Bottas. I think he's good, but I don't think he's special. He can defend OK but otherwise I find him vaguely reminiscent of Rosberg: solid but unspectacular. If Ferrari are looking for a Number 2, then maybe he will be worth a look, but I'd be disappointed in their ambitions if that were true. On balance I'd say Seb hasn't looked superior to Kimi on Sundays, although he's been undeniably superior in qualifying. But if I were Ferrari I'd be looking for someone with the potential to be better in both qualifying and the race. And I don't think that's Bottas

http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12199&hilit=bottas+not+good+enough&start=40

And I'll bet I'm not the only one. The world doesn't revolve around Hamilton and drivers aren't judged merely by how they compare to him.

What an extremely defensive post. :? I wasn't particularly talking about you. Just something I've seen in here. Rosberg was absolutely on it. Top shelf as a driver in terms of raw pace but perhaps bested by a few on the grid in terms of racecraft.

As for Bottas, I'll raise my hand and say that I never thought of him as even potentially a top-shelf driver. I thought of him as an ideal #2 because he has raw pace that puts him in the top 10 on the grid and he has a very mature and quiet personality. As such he can score points consistently for the team while not creating internal conflict.

The idea that he's rubbish is just ridiculous though. Yes, he has been getting destroyed by Hamilton of late but he was certainly doing a better-than-expected job in the first 7 races of the season. Even now as he seems to be struggling, he consistently brings the car home in the points (and often on the podium). Sometimes that consistency is more valuable than the high peaks.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:37 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Basically the same thing that happened with Robserg is happening with Bottas. There are now people in the forum trying to say that Bottas is terrible based solely on his inability to match Hamilton. As if matching Lewis Hamilton's performance is some kind of bare minimum lol. I always found it funny the way people tried to bash Rosberg when it was very obvious that he was one of maybe 3 drivers who could actually hang with Lewis in terms of speed and performance and be real competition for him.

That's just not true, I'm afraid. I'd say the reverse is more accurate: that any criticism of Hamilton's team mates are dismissed as critique of Hamilton himself, even when there's no evidence of such.

I've already provided evidence of me doubting Rosberg long before he became a team mate of Hamilton's, and below is what I wrote about Bottas in 2015, again long before Mercedes was a future prospect for him:

I still don't quite get the love for Bottas. I think he's good, but I don't think he's special. He can defend OK but otherwise I find him vaguely reminiscent of Rosberg: solid but unspectacular. If Ferrari are looking for a Number 2, then maybe he will be worth a look, but I'd be disappointed in their ambitions if that were true. On balance I'd say Seb hasn't looked superior to Kimi on Sundays, although he's been undeniably superior in qualifying. But if I were Ferrari I'd be looking for someone with the potential to be better in both qualifying and the race. And I don't think that's Bottas

http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12199&hilit=bottas+not+good+enough&start=40

And I'll bet I'm not the only one. The world doesn't revolve around Hamilton and drivers aren't judged merely by how they compare to him.

What an extremely defensive post. :? I wasn't particularly talking about you. Just something I've seen in here. Rosberg was absolutely on it. Top shelf as a driver in terms of raw pace but perhaps bested by a few on the grid in terms of racecraft.

As for Bottas, I'll raise my hand and say that I never thought of him as even potentially a top-shelf driver. I thought of him as an ideal #2 because he has raw pace that puts him in the top 10 on the grid and he has a very mature and quiet personality. As such he can score points consistently for the team while not creating internal conflict.

The idea that he's rubbish is just ridiculous though. Yes, he has been getting destroyed by Hamilton of late but he was certainly doing a better-than-expected job in the first 7 races of the season. Even now as he seems to be struggling, he consistently brings the car home in the points (and often on the podium). Sometimes that consistency is more valuable than the high peaks.

Sorry, I get pokerman accusing me of that with Rosberg and then followed fairly closely after with your post directly under mine where I was having the Bottas debate, so you can see where I might have put two and two together and made 5!

I agree that Bottas is not rubbish. He's struggling now, but he was on it more at the beginning of the year so I think it's a bit harsh to write him off completely now


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:52 pm 
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Bottas this year seems indicative of the car being very close to being the best and having excellent runs early on, but as Mercedes began to slip a bit in the development race, Lewis has been able to extract a bit more and understand the car's behavior a bit better and has been able to make setup adjustments that make his car work better, to keep himself in the fight. Bottas has been just slightly off on the setup side a few times and his car hasn't been as dialed in as Hamilton's, and in F1 that makes a big difference. In races where he's not looked sensational he's put in some stellar laps which is telling that he has enough talent to be mixing it up towards the front.

On the other hand, this feels like it's pretty consistent with his time at Williams when at times the car was dialed one weekend and then a bit off the mark for a couple races or more before looking strong again, so maybe this is what separates him from the top echelon drivers? I think after a few seasons under their belts, F1 drivers should have a more complete and fundamental understanding of setup work and how certain changes affect their driving styles. Things like rear tow & camber, front camber, stiffer or softer suspension, more or less wing on either end, after a while a driver should be able to recognize which areas need changes in order to help them get the balance of the car in the ballpark for each track. Hopefully he gets all this squared away so he can have just a good a chance as his teammate for podiums and wins.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:04 pm 
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A bit in the tin foil hat department perhaps but I wouldn't rule out that Bottas is basically being used as a testing platform for Lewis, like in Malaysia where they probably knew the aero update wouldn't work but had Bottas use it for valuable data gathering for Suzuka where in turn it should work. The WCC is practically theirs already but the WDC race is still on so it makes sense.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:17 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
A bit in the tin foil hat department perhaps but I wouldn't rule out that Bottas is basically being used as a testing platform for Lewis, like in Malaysia where they probably knew the aero update wouldn't work but had Bottas use it for valuable data gathering for Suzuka where in turn it should work. The WCC is practically theirs already but the WDC race is still on so it makes sense.

Nah Bottas chose to use that aero package and Hamilton chose to revert to the old one. it was driver's decision. They are not using him as a test bed lol.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:27 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Not entirely sure that answers my question? :?

Because you made that statement, what evidence did you have?

Then you question how someone knows that Rosberg is better than Ricciardo in qualifying and the rain?

Which statement? I didn't even mention Bottas in the post you replied to. You've confused me!

In this very thread you said you never rated Bottas so I wondered how do we compare that he's never been that good like you ask the poster that said that Rosberg was better than Ricciardo in qualifying and the wet, I mean how did you compare because before the season started he never had been beat by a teammate?

I originally let it go because it was just your opinion that you are entitled to, but then when someone gives his opinion you're basically saying that it's not possible to determine that, so I'm thinking alright so how do you determine what you said?

I've written about Bottas before, particularly when he was mooted to replace Kimi at Ferrari and I thought he wouldn't have been an upgrade. I had to go digging out my quotes previously after being accused of making it up to defend Vettel and I don't see why I should do it again. I don't think he's bad, but he doesn't really excite me. He has had some good moments but overall nothing special. That's pretty much it, really.

So, how do you conclude Rosberg is better than Ricciardo in qualifying and the wet? That's quite specific

It's as specific as saying that Bottas would not be an upgrade on Kimi, if one is an unproven opinion than so he is the other, if one is to be questioned then so is the other.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:33 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Because you made that statement, what evidence did you have?

Then you question how someone knows that Rosberg is better than Ricciardo in qualifying and the rain?

Which statement? I didn't even mention Bottas in the post you replied to. You've confused me!

In this very thread you said you never rated Bottas so I wondered how do we compare that he's never been that good like you ask the poster that said that Rosberg was better than Ricciardo in qualifying and the wet, I mean how did you compare because before the season started he never had been beat by a teammate?

I originally let it go because it was just your opinion that you are entitled to, but then when someone gives his opinion you're basically saying that it's not possible to determine that, so I'm thinking alright so how do you determine what you said?

I've written about Bottas before, particularly when he was mooted to replace Kimi at Ferrari and I thought he wouldn't have been an upgrade. I had to go digging out my quotes previously after being accused of making it up to defend Vettel and I don't see why I should do it again. I don't think he's bad, but he doesn't really excite me. He has had some good moments but overall nothing special. That's pretty much it, really.

So, how do you conclude Rosberg is better than Ricciardo in qualifying and the wet? That's quite specific

It's as specific as saying that Bottas would not be an upgrade on Kimi, if one is an unproven opinion than so he is the other, if one is to be questioned then so is the other.

I think even you must see that's bogus. One is a general comment and the other is very specifically citing two areas of performance. Don't think you're being entirely straight here


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:38 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
A bit in the tin foil hat department perhaps but I wouldn't rule out that Bottas is basically being used as a testing platform for Lewis, like in Malaysia where they probably knew the aero update wouldn't work but had Bottas use it for valuable data gathering for Suzuka where in turn it should work. The WCC is practically theirs already but the WDC race is still on so it makes sense.

They put the aero update on both cars in Malaysia and both cars have it on in Japan.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Which statement? I didn't even mention Bottas in the post you replied to. You've confused me!

In this very thread you said you never rated Bottas so I wondered how do we compare that he's never been that good like you ask the poster that said that Rosberg was better than Ricciardo in qualifying and the wet, I mean how did you compare because before the season started he never had been beat by a teammate?

I originally let it go because it was just your opinion that you are entitled to, but then when someone gives his opinion you're basically saying that it's not possible to determine that, so I'm thinking alright so how do you determine what you said?

I've written about Bottas before, particularly when he was mooted to replace Kimi at Ferrari and I thought he wouldn't have been an upgrade. I had to go digging out my quotes previously after being accused of making it up to defend Vettel and I don't see why I should do it again. I don't think he's bad, but he doesn't really excite me. He has had some good moments but overall nothing special. That's pretty much it, really.

So, how do you conclude Rosberg is better than Ricciardo in qualifying and the wet? That's quite specific

It's as specific as saying that Bottas would not be an upgrade on Kimi, if one is an unproven opinion than so he is the other, if one is to be questioned then so is the other.

I think even you must see that's bogus. One is a general comment and the other is very specifically citing two areas of performance. Don't think you're being entirely straight here

No it's someone determining something to be true based on just his own personal opinion on both counts.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:06 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
A bit in the tin foil hat department perhaps but I wouldn't rule out that Bottas is basically being used as a testing platform for Lewis, like in Malaysia where they probably knew the aero update wouldn't work but had Bottas use it for valuable data gathering for Suzuka where in turn it should work. The WCC is practically theirs already but the WDC race is still on so it makes sense.

Nah Bottas chose to use that aero package and Hamilton chose to revert to the old one. it was driver's decision. They are not using him as a test bed lol.

Possible but can you be sure?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:07 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
A bit in the tin foil hat department perhaps but I wouldn't rule out that Bottas is basically being used as a testing platform for Lewis, like in Malaysia where they probably knew the aero update wouldn't work but had Bottas use it for valuable data gathering for Suzuka where in turn it should work. The WCC is practically theirs already but the WDC race is still on so it makes sense.

They put the aero update on both cars in Malaysia and both cars have it on in Japan.

Only Bottas ran it in Malaysia (Lewis had it on Friday).

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:36 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
In this very thread you said you never rated Bottas so I wondered how do we compare that he's never been that good like you ask the poster that said that Rosberg was better than Ricciardo in qualifying and the wet, I mean how did you compare because before the season started he never had been beat by a teammate?

I originally let it go because it was just your opinion that you are entitled to, but then when someone gives his opinion you're basically saying that it's not possible to determine that, so I'm thinking alright so how do you determine what you said?

I've written about Bottas before, particularly when he was mooted to replace Kimi at Ferrari and I thought he wouldn't have been an upgrade. I had to go digging out my quotes previously after being accused of making it up to defend Vettel and I don't see why I should do it again. I don't think he's bad, but he doesn't really excite me. He has had some good moments but overall nothing special. That's pretty much it, really.

So, how do you conclude Rosberg is better than Ricciardo in qualifying and the wet? That's quite specific

It's as specific as saying that Bottas would not be an upgrade on Kimi, if one is an unproven opinion than so he is the other, if one is to be questioned then so is the other.

I think even you must see that's bogus. One is a general comment and the other is very specifically citing two areas of performance. Don't think you're being entirely straight here

No it's someone determining something to be true based on just his own personal opinion on both counts.

Actually, it's very clear that you are once again trying to deflect, as you are wont to do, in order to avoid answering a question for which you know you have no answer.

I'm done with this, but I think it's plain to see you're being less than honest here


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:31 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
A bit in the tin foil hat department perhaps but I wouldn't rule out that Bottas is basically being used as a testing platform for Lewis, like in Malaysia where they probably knew the aero update wouldn't work but had Bottas use it for valuable data gathering for Suzuka where in turn it should work. The WCC is practically theirs already but the WDC race is still on so it makes sense.

Nah Bottas chose to use that aero package and Hamilton chose to revert to the old one. it was driver's decision. They are not using him as a test bed lol.

Possible but can you be sure?

You do realise that Bottas was quicker than Hamilton in P3 and Hamilton then wanted to use the new package for qualifying but they didn't have enough time to change it back, it's only after Hamilton did far better than Bottas in qualifying that Bottas said the old package was better.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:33 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
A bit in the tin foil hat department perhaps but I wouldn't rule out that Bottas is basically being used as a testing platform for Lewis, like in Malaysia where they probably knew the aero update wouldn't work but had Bottas use it for valuable data gathering for Suzuka where in turn it should work. The WCC is practically theirs already but the WDC race is still on so it makes sense.

They put the aero update on both cars in Malaysia and both cars have it on in Japan.

Only Bottas ran it in Malaysia (Lewis had it on Friday).

Friday in Malaysia?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:54 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
A bit in the tin foil hat department perhaps but I wouldn't rule out that Bottas is basically being used as a testing platform for Lewis, like in Malaysia where they probably knew the aero update wouldn't work but had Bottas use it for valuable data gathering for Suzuka where in turn it should work. The WCC is practically theirs already but the WDC race is still on so it makes sense.

Nah Bottas chose to use that aero package and Hamilton chose to revert to the old one. it was driver's decision. They are not using him as a test bed lol.

Yes, I am certain that Mercedes were going to give it to both drivers for Malaysia. Hamilton wisely didn't want to use it. Bottas seemed fairly comfortable at first and looked reasonably matched to Hamilton as he was very close in P2, ahead in P3 and Q2 as well. But he was the only driver who didn't improve his Q3 run over his Q2 time. Both Bottas's Q3 laps looked to be free from mistakes, but Bottas didn't seem to have the usual jump in performance that Mercedes usually has a slight advantage over other teams in Q3. Basically, I think the new setup was partly responsible for making Bottas look a bit worse than he really was in qualifying and the race. The fact he finished further behind Hamilton than he did in China somehow makes this even more obvious. Hopefully Bottas will find more pace and the new package will suit the remaining tracks better.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:10 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
A bit in the tin foil hat department perhaps but I wouldn't rule out that Bottas is basically being used as a testing platform for Lewis, like in Malaysia where they probably knew the aero update wouldn't work but had Bottas use it for valuable data gathering for Suzuka where in turn it should work. The WCC is practically theirs already but the WDC race is still on so it makes sense.

Nah Bottas chose to use that aero package and Hamilton chose to revert to the old one. it was driver's decision. They are not using him as a test bed lol.

Possible but can you be sure?

You do realise that Bottas was quicker than Hamilton in P3 and Hamilton then wanted to use the new package for qualifying but they didn't have enough time to change it back, it's only after Hamilton did far better than Bottas in qualifying that Bottas said the old package was better.

No i don't realize that at all.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I understood they both ran it in fp1 and fp2 and Lewis opted to switch to the old one on Saturday?

Edit: This seems to confirm it.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13211 ... ro-package

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Last edited by Covalent on Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:10 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
A bit in the tin foil hat department perhaps but I wouldn't rule out that Bottas is basically being used as a testing platform for Lewis, like in Malaysia where they probably knew the aero update wouldn't work but had Bottas use it for valuable data gathering for Suzuka where in turn it should work. The WCC is practically theirs already but the WDC race is still on so it makes sense.

They put the aero update on both cars in Malaysia and both cars have it on in Japan.

Only Bottas ran it in Malaysia (Lewis had it on Friday).

Friday in Malaysia?

Yes.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:22 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
A bit in the tin foil hat department perhaps but I wouldn't rule out that Bottas is basically being used as a testing platform for Lewis, like in Malaysia where they probably knew the aero update wouldn't work but had Bottas use it for valuable data gathering for Suzuka where in turn it should work. The WCC is practically theirs already but the WDC race is still on so it makes sense.

Nah Bottas chose to use that aero package and Hamilton chose to revert to the old one. it was driver's decision. They are not using him as a test bed lol.

Possible but can you be sure?

You do realise that Bottas was quicker than Hamilton in P3 and Hamilton then wanted to use the new package for qualifying but they didn't have enough time to change it back, it's only after Hamilton did far better than Bottas in qualifying that Bottas said the old package was better.

No i don't realize that at all.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I understood they both ran it in fp1 and fp2 and Lewis opted to switch to the old one on Saturday?

Edit: This seems to confirm it.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13211 ... ro-package

Yes that's what happened but i'm not sure you can say that Bottas was used as a guinea pig when they didn't know which package was better and Bottas preferred the new package?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Well I'm basing it on the assumption that what the drivers tell the press might not be 100% accurate all the time and Mercedes may have been the ones making the decision.

As I said it's just a conspiracy theory not to be taken too seriously...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:28 pm 
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And what about the part where you said Lewis wanted to use it but couldn't? The one I was supposed to realize?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:31 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
And what about the part where you said Lewis wanted to use it but couldn't? The one I was supposed to realize?

I thought it was quite well known that after P3 when Bottas went a couple of tenths quicker on the new package Hamilton wanted the same package but there wasn't the time to change it back before qualifying.

Also if the new package is such a washout why are they both using it in Japan?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:08 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
And what about the part where you said Lewis wanted to use it but couldn't? The one I was supposed to realize?

I thought it was quite well known that after P3 when Bottas went a couple of tenths quicker on the new package Hamilton wanted the same package but there wasn't the time to change it back before qualifying.

Also if the new package is such a washout why are they both using it in Japan?

Not saying you're wrong as I'm sure you know more about what Hamilton has said than me but was this reported anywhere? I don't remember it and earlier this week I saw an article saying Hamilton wasn't in agreement with Mercedes about the aero strategy in Japan.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... 61549/?s=1
Quote:
Hamilton said he and the team were still split on which direction to take at Suzuka.

"It's not decided at the moment, it's a constant discussion," said Hamilton. "The guys want to go one direction and I'm hesitant and more feeling for another way.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:02 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
And what about the part where you said Lewis wanted to use it but couldn't? The one I was supposed to realize?

I thought it was quite well known that after P3 when Bottas went a couple of tenths quicker on the new package Hamilton wanted the same package but there wasn't the time to change it back before qualifying.

Also if the new package is such a washout why are they both using it in Japan?

I don't know if it was well known but it wasn't to me and still isn't. I'd assume you have some link to confirm it since it was something you assumed I would realize?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:33 pm 
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Ok, I split these posts out of the thread In my opinion Max very well may be the best driver as they had dragged it way off topic.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:01 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
And what about the part where you said Lewis wanted to use it but couldn't? The one I was supposed to realize?

I thought it was quite well known that after P3 when Bottas went a couple of tenths quicker on the new package Hamilton wanted the same package but there wasn't the time to change it back before qualifying.

Also if the new package is such a washout why are they both using it in Japan?

I don't know if it was well known but it wasn't to me and still isn't. I'd assume you have some link to confirm it since it was something you assumed I would realize?

Regarding your last sentence please read the posts you a replying to, I explained it in the original theory post.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:17 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
And what about the part where you said Lewis wanted to use it but couldn't? The one I was supposed to realize?

I thought it was quite well known that after P3 when Bottas went a couple of tenths quicker on the new package Hamilton wanted the same package but there wasn't the time to change it back before qualifying.

Also if the new package is such a washout why are they both using it in Japan?

I don't know if it was well known but it wasn't to me and still isn't. I'd assume you have some link to confirm it since it was something you assumed I would realize?

Regarding your last sentence please read the posts you a replying to, I explained it in the original theory post.


I only watched Ch4 last weekend so might have heard it there but I do remember hearing the same thing.

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