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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:16 pm 
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Ferrari had 4 years, Red Bull had 4, now Mercedes have had 4, is this the end of the Mercedes domination?

Will FIA find new ways to stop the Mercedes?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:25 pm 
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I think that Ferrari have taken a step in the right direction this year. This is the first time since the new regulations that a team has been regularly able to challenge Mercedes on pure pace. No matter what Toto Wolff wanted you to believe from 2014-2016, Mercedes was never under threat in that time.

The real secret of Mercedes' advantage lies in the engine though. That's been obvious this year. If the FIA want to slow down Mercedes, they'll need to find a way to slow down their engine. Find something illegal in it, as they did with McLaren-Mercedes in 2001 (which set them back to 1998 power levels).


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:29 pm 
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I'd say Mercedes domination is already over. That's not to say it's still not a great package, but the days of the Merc drivers basically being able to qualify wherever they like on any circuit and blast through to guranteed podiums are over. Their main advantage I believe is in qualifying, and I fully expect that to be challenged in 2018.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:31 pm 
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I remember how people were celebrating in 2003 that Ferrari domination was over. We all know what happened the following year. :lol:

I'll believe it when I see it. For now, I can only see Mercedes win every year until 2020.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:31 pm 
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It ended this year, I guess you either didn't notice or don't know what domination actually entails, the general nature of your posts would suggest an early put down on a title that Hamilton hasn't even won yet.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:33 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
I think that Ferrari have taken a step in the right direction this year. This is the first time since the new regulations that a team has been regularly able to challenge Mercedes on pure pace. No matter what Toto Wolff wanted you to believe from 2014-2016, Mercedes was never under threat in that time.

The real secret of Mercedes' advantage lies in the engine though. That's been obvious this year. If the FIA want to slow down Mercedes, they'll need to find a way to slow down their engine. Find something illegal in it, as they did with McLaren-Mercedes in 2001 (which set them back to 1998 power levels).

Find something or make something up?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:35 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
It ended this year, I guess you either didn't notice or don't know what domination actually entails, the general nature of your posts would suggest an early put down on a title that Hamilton hasn't even won yet.


Ferrari left walk over for the WDC but was never near the WCC, Red Bull is a steady second behind.
The major advantage still looks to be engine related so I suggest it's a continuity since 2014.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:40 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It ended this year, I guess you either didn't notice or don't know what domination actually entails, the general nature of your posts would suggest an early put down on a title that Hamilton hasn't even won yet.


Ferrari left walk over for the WDC but was never near the WCC, Red Bull is a steady second behind.
The major advantage still looks to be engine related so I suggest it's a continuity since 2014.

Ferrari made a choice not to win the WCC when they employed Kimi, Vettel could have easily won 3 of the last 4 races on pace.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:49 pm 
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None of those teams were dominant for 4 years. Red Bull were only really dominant for half a season, Ferrari in 02 and Mercedes 2014-2016. Merc's domination in that time is pretty much unprecedented.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:50 pm 
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This season could easily go down as being dominated, although for the majority of the year it wasn't. Mercedes currently have 10 wins in 16 but that was only 6 wins in 11 until Hungary.

If they win 3 or even 4 of the last 4 it will likely go down as a dominated season in which they were pushed hard in the first half of the year and were very strong in the last third. 13-14 wins out of 20 is very strong, especially if Ferrari ended on 4-5 and Red Bull 2.

Funny how seasons change on a race to two, if Vettel had won in Malaysia and Singapore it would likely be 7-6 in wins in Hamiltons favour and we would all be set for a very close title run in. In that respect the "domination" relied heavily upon Ferrari dropping the ball at key times in the season.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:55 pm 
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Mercedes have done well this season, but they haven't dominated. The last three races have distorted the result, it should have been two wins for Ferrari with Mercedes off the podium and a Ferrari in second place today. That would have put Vettel and Hamilton on 6 wins each.

Ferrari and Mercedes peak speed is similar, Ferrari is less reliable, Mercedes less consistent due to their tyre problems. Ferrari are more likely to get on top of their reliability problems as they iron out the causes, whereas Mercedes have been struggling with this tyre problem for about 5 years, it was just masked in 2014 - 2016 due to their huge performance advantage over the rest of the field.

My money would be on Ferrari to be the team with the most wins next season, providing Marchionne supports the present Ferrari team rather than fulfilling a bloodlust for heads rolling. Ferrari have taken a huge step in the right direction, and at this level of motorsport, a bleeding edge car can suffer from reliability problems. For future development of performance it's better to be fast and unreliable than slow/inconsistent and bullet proof.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:56 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
None of those teams were dominant for 4 years. Red Bull were only really dominant for half a season, Ferrari in 02 and Mercedes 2014-2016. Merc's domination in that time is pretty much unprecedented.


The only real domination on Mercedes level to go longer than 1 year would be Williams over 1992-1993 and arguably Mclaren over 1988-1989. Maybe Red Bull from the middle of 2010 through 2011 but they weren't reliable enough to dominate truly.

2001 was mostly Schumacher, 2002 was dominated but it ended in 2003 and 2004 was also dominated but that ended in 2005.

What Mercedes have done is by far the most dominated period in the sports history and have even managed to ride out a major rule change.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:59 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It ended this year, I guess you either didn't notice or don't know what domination actually entails, the general nature of your posts would suggest an early put down on a title that Hamilton hasn't even won yet.


Ferrari left walk over for the WDC but was never near the WCC, Red Bull is a steady second behind.
The major advantage still looks to be engine related so I suggest it's a continuity since 2014.

Ferrari made a choice not to win the WCC when they employed Kimi, Vettel could have easily won 3 of the last 4 races on pace.

This. Ferrari have chosen to retain the services of a driver who is clearly under-performing. Raikkonen has been beaten in the points by a Red Bull driver in each of the last 2 seasons (assuming Daniel holds on to beat him this year). So it's clear that Kimi is not delivering the amount of points that you would expect from that car. Suggesting that their loss in the WCC is proof that the car isn't up to it is totally illogical. That would only make sense if they lost because of the car.

Mercedes were in no way dominant this year based on the performance of the car. This year was a win for the people involved more than anything else. While Ferrari disintegrated in the second half of the season with reliability issues and judgement errors, Mercedes were able to maintain that same high level of performance and competition throughout.

The question is; where will things stand when we return to Australia next year? Hamilton has made comments to the effect of; "we know the fundamental weakness with this car and won't be able to address it until next year". I assume that this has to do with their comparative lack of downforce in relation to Ferrari as well as their much narrower setup and performance window. If, in fact, Mercedes are able to take a big step forward next year, they may re-establish the upper hand. For now though, they have been caught already by one team and there's a second team that isn't far behind. The time of dominance is over.


Last edited by sandman1347 on Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Ferrari drop the ball for 3 races in a row and we end up with the ridiculous, "Mercedes dominating with a rocketship" style threads.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:00 pm 
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Domination ended in Australia. Regardless of how the stats may lie at the end of the season, Ferrari have certainly had a car capable of winning the title for most of the season. Wether or not the current reliability issues are because of them cutting it a bit fine while chasing ultimate performance is up for debate, but it's certainly been capable of winning on merit for the rest of the year.

The last 3 races have seriously distorted the outlook of the championship, if all 3 of those went to form (and if my auntie had balls etc) then I think Vettel would still be leading the race for the title and any talk of domination from Mercedes would be muted.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:00 pm 
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When Hamilton retires. Then Mercedes will sink pretty hard.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:11 pm 
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I don't think it's driver related, more PU related.

It's been talk about split turbo, 50 hp advantage, special button, Q3 mode, oil burning?

It's established as the most dominant era since F1 started, when and how will it end?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:15 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
When Hamilton retires. Then Mercedes will sink pretty hard.


Depends who succeeds him I would have thought.

But to follow up on your point have Mercedes been dominant this year? If they had a dominant car wouldn't Bottas be guaranteed second spot at every race?

You have to say a large part of domination this year has been down to Hamilton.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
When Hamilton retires. Then Mercedes will sink pretty hard.


Depends who succeeds him I would have thought.

But to follow up on your point have Mercedes been dominant this year? If they had a dominant car wouldn't Bottas be guaranteed second spot at every race?

You have to say a large part of domination this year has been down to Hamilton.


Bottas got like a month or two to prepare for 2017, and was very early ordered to move aside, Merc have 1500 F1 employee who probably disagrees : )


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:31 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
When Hamilton retires. Then Mercedes will sink pretty hard.


Depends who succeeds him I would have thought.

But to follow up on your point have Mercedes been dominant this year? If they had a dominant car wouldn't Bottas be guaranteed second spot at every race?

You have to say a large part of domination this year has been down to Hamilton.


Bottas got like a month or two to prepare for 2017, and was very early ordered to move aside, Merc have 1500 F1 employee who probably disagrees : )

Enough with the excuses already. Hamilton was up by only 3 points going into Singapore and he's now up by 59 despite the fact that 2 of the last 3 races, Ferrari were clearly faster. On the season, Ferrari have been faster than Mercedes as often as they were slower. The car isn't dominant. Not even romotely so. In fact, in 2 of the last 3 races, Mercedes have been 3rd best!

Ugh, it's annoying the way some people in here are trying to spin things. Mercedes out-performed Ferrari as a team. They maintained reliability and made very few errors. Hamilton has not made a substantial error in any race this year and his car has not failed in any race either. That's the main reason he's going to win the championship. Vettel has had a mechanical failure and a crash (of which he must share at least some blame) in the last 3 races and has had to start from the back in the other one. THAT'S why Ferrari are losing. As you scramble to blame the car you might want to take notice of that reality.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:35 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It ended this year, I guess you either didn't notice or don't know what domination actually entails, the general nature of your posts would suggest an early put down on a title that Hamilton hasn't even won yet.


Ferrari left walk over for the WDC but was never near the WCC, Red Bull is a steady second behind.
The major advantage still looks to be engine related so I suggest it's a continuity since 2014.

Ferrari made a choice not to win the WCC when they employed Kimi, Vettel could have easily won 3 of the last 4 races on pace.


It is funny you are saying this. Bottas can still finish 2nd in the championship. They still dominate in qualifying so if they both keep getting 1-2 like Suzuka. Vettel will have to do well to even beat Bottas. I think Hamilton might help him to get 2nd on championship to make it another 1-2 this year

Ferrari IMO have made a huge step from last year. Especially in high downforce track like Monaco, Hungary, Singapore. They should have had 1-2 in Singapore too but both retired so that was really bad result for them. Mercedes have had 10wins and 12pole in 16races but it has been much closer on Sunday not completely cruise mode like previous years where they used to turned down the engine for last 10-15laps. This year Ferrari and also RBR are able to match them if not faster on some tracks. In SPA Vettel was on softer tyre so may be that helped but he looked to be faster which was definitely suppose to be a Mercedes track with fast corner and straights. Hamilton was just doing enough to not come in DRS range.

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Last edited by Mercedes-Benz on Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:37 pm 
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Just joining the people who say it ended this year.

Vettel led the world championship for most of the year (http://formula1.markwessel.com/season) and while it has swung back and forth with maybe with the Mercedes being stronger on average, the Ferrari has often been the best car on the grid.

Hamilton and Mercedes may win both championships fairly comfortably in the end, but it was far from domination.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:37 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
When Hamilton retires. Then Mercedes will sink pretty hard.


Depends who succeeds him I would have thought.

But to follow up on your point have Mercedes been dominant this year? If they had a dominant car wouldn't Bottas be guaranteed second spot at every race?

You have to say a large part of domination this year has been down to Hamilton.


Bottas got like a month or two to prepare for 2017, and was very early ordered to move aside, Merc have 1500 F1 employee who probably disagrees : )

Enough with the excuses already. Hamilton was up by only 3 points going into Singapore and he's now up by 59 despite the fact that 2 of the last 3 races, Ferrari were clearly faster. On the season, Ferrari have been faster than Mercedes as often as they were slower. The car isn't dominant. Not even romotely so. In fact, in 2 of the last 3 races, Mercedes have been 3rd best!

Ugh, it's annoying the way some people in here are trying to spin things. Mercedes out-performed Ferrari as a team. They maintained reliability and made very few errors. Hamilton has not made a substantial error in any race this year and his car has not failed in any race either. That's the main reason he's going to win the championship. Vettel has had a mechanical failure and a crash (of which he must share at least some blame) in the last 3 races and has had to start from the back in the other one. THAT'S why Ferrari are losing. As you scramble to blame the car you might want to take notice of that reality.


No, simply no, Mercedes have played it conservative this year while Ferrari have had to push really hard to try and brake the biggest dominance in F1 history, they nearly mad it but they didn't have the margins.

I believe all drivers in 2017 have had their ups and downs, but this is not a driver thread, the Merc is dominant in 2017, how and when will it end is the interesting part for me, and perhaps more interested in a more competitive field?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:40 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
When Hamilton retires. Then Mercedes will sink pretty hard.


Depends who succeeds him I would have thought.

But to follow up on your point have Mercedes been dominant this year? If they had a dominant car wouldn't Bottas be guaranteed second spot at every race?

You have to say a large part of domination this year has been down to Hamilton.


Bottas got like a month or two to prepare for 2017, and was very early ordered to move aside, Merc have 1500 F1 employee who probably disagrees : )

Enough with the excuses already. Hamilton was up by only 3 points going into Singapore and he's now up by 59 despite the fact that 2 of the last 3 races, Ferrari were clearly faster. On the season, Ferrari have been faster than Mercedes as often as they were slower. The car isn't dominant. Not even romotely so. In fact, in 2 of the last 3 races, Mercedes have been 3rd best!

Ugh, it's annoying the way some people in here are trying to spin things. Mercedes out-performed Ferrari as a team. They maintained reliability and made very few errors. Hamilton has not made a substantial error in any race this year and his car has not failed in any race either. That's the main reason he's going to win the championship. Vettel has had a mechanical failure and a crash (of which he must share at least some blame) in the last 3 races and has had to start from the back in the other one. THAT'S why Ferrari are losing. As you scramble to blame the car you might want to take notice of that reality.


No, simply no, Mercedes have played it conservative this year while Ferrari have had to push really hard to try and brake the biggest dominance in F1 history, they nearly mad it but they didn't have the margins.

I believe all drivers in 2017 have had their ups and downs, but this is not a driver thread, the Merc is dominant in 2017, how and when will it end is the interesting part for me, and perhaps more interested in a more competitive field?

Thank you for writing the bolded part. That let's me know not to waste any more time with you.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
When Hamilton retires. Then Mercedes will sink pretty hard.


Depends who succeeds him I would have thought.

But to follow up on your point have Mercedes been dominant this year? If they had a dominant car wouldn't Bottas be guaranteed second spot at every race?

You have to say a large part of domination this year has been down to Hamilton.


Ham-man is a big part of it.

The Merc dominance was far less absolute this year as compared to 2014-16. It just seems to me that Merc run into less problems than Ferrari and run a tighter ship. They shoot themselves in the foot less and I'm not talking genuine reliability issues but just sheer unforced errors. The Ferrari capitulation came at the worst possible time this year.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:03 pm 
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The Merc isn't dominant this year, but it is still the car to be in just now.

Their dominance 2014-16 has been unprecedented.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:12 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
I don't think it's driver related, more PU related.

It's been talk about split turbo, 50 hp advantage, special button, Q3 mode, oil burning?

It's established as the most dominant era since F1 started, when and how will it end?

50hp advantage were did you pull that one from?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:15 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It ended this year, I guess you either didn't notice or don't know what domination actually entails, the general nature of your posts would suggest an early put down on a title that Hamilton hasn't even won yet.


Ferrari left walk over for the WDC but was never near the WCC, Red Bull is a steady second behind.
The major advantage still looks to be engine related so I suggest it's a continuity since 2014.

Ferrari made a choice not to win the WCC when they employed Kimi, Vettel could have easily won 3 of the last 4 races on pace.


It is funny you are saying this. Bottas can still finish 2nd in the championship. They still dominate in qualifying so if they both keep getting 1-2 like Suzuka. Vettel will have to do well to even beat Bottas. I think Hamilton might help him to get 2nd on championship to make it another 1-2 this year

Ferrari IMO have made a huge step from last year. Especially in high downforce track like Monaco, Hungary, Singapore. They should have had 1-2 in Singapore too but both retired so that was really bad result for them. Mercedes have had 10wins and 12pole in 16races but it has been much closer on Sunday not completely cruise mode like previous years where they used to turned down the engine for last 10-15laps. This year Ferrari and also RBR are able to match them if not faster on some tracks. In SPA Vettel was on softer tyre so may be that helped but he looked to be faster which was definitely suppose to be a Mercedes track with fast corner and straights. Hamilton was just doing enough to not come in DRS range.

The thread title is that Mercedes have a dominant car though.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:18 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:

Depends who succeeds him I would have thought.

But to follow up on your point have Mercedes been dominant this year? If they had a dominant car wouldn't Bottas be guaranteed second spot at every race?

You have to say a large part of domination this year has been down to Hamilton.


Bottas got like a month or two to prepare for 2017, and was very early ordered to move aside, Merc have 1500 F1 employee who probably disagrees : )

Enough with the excuses already. Hamilton was up by only 3 points going into Singapore and he's now up by 59 despite the fact that 2 of the last 3 races, Ferrari were clearly faster. On the season, Ferrari have been faster than Mercedes as often as they were slower. The car isn't dominant. Not even romotely so. In fact, in 2 of the last 3 races, Mercedes have been 3rd best!

Ugh, it's annoying the way some people in here are trying to spin things. Mercedes out-performed Ferrari as a team. They maintained reliability and made very few errors. Hamilton has not made a substantial error in any race this year and his car has not failed in any race either. That's the main reason he's going to win the championship. Vettel has had a mechanical failure and a crash (of which he must share at least some blame) in the last 3 races and has had to start from the back in the other one. THAT'S why Ferrari are losing. As you scramble to blame the car you might want to take notice of that reality.


No, simply no, Mercedes have played it conservative this year while Ferrari have had to push really hard to try and brake the biggest dominance in F1 history, they nearly mad it but they didn't have the margins.

I believe all drivers in 2017 have had their ups and downs, but this is not a driver thread, the Merc is dominant in 2017, how and when will it end is the interesting part for me, and perhaps more interested in a more competitive field?

Thank you for writing the bolded part. That let's me know not to waste any more time with you.

The underlying message is too discredit Hamilton's title if he goes on to win the WDC.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:28 pm 
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You can win and appear dominant 2 ways. 1 have the best package in all areas or 2 the competition drops the ball.

This year Ferrari have dropped the ball and RBR have not been at the game. Merc ave also had good reliability and a big slice of luck, but I don't think they have been dominant. The best team, yes, but there have been few races where you would put your house on a bet for them to win


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:32 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
The thread title is that Mercedes have a dominant car though.


No, it's not, it says Mercedes dominance, they are like 1500 employee and have been dominant for 4 years now, and yes the numbers as summed up in the end will point at dominance, nothing else.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:35 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The thread title is that Mercedes have a dominant car though.


No, it's not, it says Mercedes dominance, they are like 1500 employee and have been dominant for 4 years now, and yes the numbers as summed up in the end will point at dominance, nothing else.


And what impact, pray tell, does the amount of employees Mercedes have on the supposed dominance of the car? As for the numbers you've been spouting, pretty much none of them apply to this year, which also happens to be the year that most can agree on has been the end of the dominance.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The thread title is that Mercedes have a dominant car though.


No, it's not, it says Mercedes dominance, they are like 1500 employee and have been dominant for 4 years now, and yes the numbers as summed up in the end will point at dominance, nothing else.


And what impact, pray tell, does the amount of employees Mercedes have on the supposed dominance of the car? As for the numbers you've been spouting, pretty much none of them apply to this year, which also happens to be the year that most can agree on has been the end of the dominance.


Easily, continuity and good results makes it much more easy to keep on, and the regulations haven't changed that much so the experiences they've made in the most dominant era ever in F1 is obviously paying off.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:41 pm 
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BTW, Ham has bagged THREE grand chelems this season in the least dominant year of the ongoing Merc era. He's really dominant when he's on it.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:45 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The thread title is that Mercedes have a dominant car though.


No, it's not, it says Mercedes dominance, they are like 1500 employee and have been dominant for 4 years now, and yes the numbers as summed up in the end will point at dominance, nothing else.


And what impact, pray tell, does the amount of employees Mercedes have on the supposed dominance of the car? As for the numbers you've been spouting, pretty much none of them apply to this year, which also happens to be the year that most can agree on has been the end of the dominance.


Easily, continuity and good results makes it much more easy to keep on, and the regulations haven't changed that much so the experiences they've made in the most dominant era ever in F1 is obviously paying off.


Mercedes have experienced as much staff turnover as any other team, and the regulations not changing have given the other teams just as much chance to make gains to match them (as Ferrari and in the last few races, Red Bull finally have). Right now it seems that your only argument for the dominance you are claiming is out of date performance differential statistics and a bit of smoke and mirrors.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:48 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Mercedes have experienced as much staff turnover as any other team, and the regulations not changing have given the other teams just as much chance to make gains to match them (as Ferrari and in the last few races, Red Bull finally have). Right now it seems that your only argument for the dominance you are claiming is out of date performance differential statistics and a bit of smoke and mirrors.


You can have your belief but when the season sums up it will show a Merc dominance however you wantt to twist it, resultwise, PU wise, reliability etc


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Well, it ended this year.

This is the issue with "dominance", some people take only the end result into consideration. Just look at the Red Bull "dominant years", they never existed. A non dominant year was followed by a dominant one but when people look back they talk of Red Bull being dominant for 4 years.

The Mercedes has been the better car this year but dominant? No chance.


Last edited by Black_Flag_11 on Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:54 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Mercedes have experienced as much staff turnover as any other team, and the regulations not changing have given the other teams just as much chance to make gains to match them (as Ferrari and in the last few races, Red Bull finally have). Right now it seems that your only argument for the dominance you are claiming is out of date performance differential statistics and a bit of smoke and mirrors.


You can have your belief but when the season sums up it will show a Merc dominance however you wantt to twist it, resultwise, PU wise, reliability etc


And you can have your belief, but when you look at the stats in the cold light of day, Ferrari have been in this championship as much as Mercedes right up until Singapore, where they were expected to stretch their legs once more. Fate has intervened since then, but given that Ferrari went to great lengths to blame an outside supplier for their Malaysia woes, and that a faulty spark plug (another outside part) has done for them in Japan, i'd say that only sheer bad luck has created the gap between the drivers that exists now, and that's taking out the two times you can potentially lay the blame at Vettel's door for his own misfortune.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:26 pm 
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I agree with many that it ended this year. Both Ferrari and Red Bull have beaten Mercedes on the track this year on genuine pace which is a first for the hybrid era. Verstappen has come of age and now looks to me to be Hamilton's direct successor. Both Ferrari and Renault engines have almost caught up, a trend I see continuing next year. In fact I see 2018 shaping up to be a rerun of 2010/2012 where at least four teams could win races on pace as I expect McLaren and possibly Renault to join the current top three on genuine pace.

Ferrari and Vettel really screwed up this year as they genuinely could be walking off with the wdc this year with the Mercedes still being fragile in races and the Red Bull only now coming good. The Ferrari has been the most docile and most forgiving of all the top cars this year and really they should be the ones wrapping up the wdc in the final stretch not Mercedes. It will be more tougher next year as Mercedes fix their diva and other teams catch up.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:34 pm 
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Invade wrote:
BTW, Ham has bagged THREE grand chelems this season in the least dominant year of the ongoing Merc era. He's really dominant when he's on it.

It was a lot more difficult to get Grand Chelems when the Merc was super dominant than it is when it's not.

That may sound counter intuitive but it's because of the number of 1-2s Merc got, and their policy for the leading car to pit first it meant that Rosberg always got a lap in the lead because Hamilton pitted first. The Grand Chelem also required the fastest lap - however fastest laps are also set towards the end of the race. After the final pitstop, assuming they weren't in close contention on the track, there was no need to run flat out, meaning the fastest lap would often be set by a driver who started outside the top 10 and fitted the softest tyre compound at the end.

Now Merc isn't dominant, it makes the opportunity to get a Grand Chelem more likely, because the typical approach is for the cars behind to try and get the undercut. That means the leading car is usually the last to pit, when all those behind have also pitted meaning they never lose the lead. It also means, with other teams competing for the win, they can't get complacent and run at a more conservative pace, they have to go flat out.

If you were to go through and look at the number of Grand Chelems Hamilton would have if you discount the one lap Rosberg led for during the tyre change it would probably be equal to the number of 1-2s they had with Hamilton in front that he got the pole and fastest lap.


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