planetf1.com

It is currently Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:40 pm

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:07 am
Posts: 943
Some more numbers for the statheads. What's frustrating is that the only real yardstick we have for Kubica is Heidfeld so it's interesting to turn that round and see how Kubica ranks amongst Heidfelds (many) teammates.

This is their av finish position when both finished:

NH vs Teammate (races): NH - Teammate = Diff

Heidfeld vs Villeneuve (7): 8.1-10.1 = -2
Heidfeld vs Alesi (1): 12-14 = -2
Heidfeld vs Pantano (3): 13.7-15.3 = -1.67
Heidfeld vs Glock (3): 11.3-12.3 = -1
Heidfeld vs Frentzen (8): 9.9-10.3 = -0.38
Heidfeld vs Petrov (6): 9.5-9.7 = -0.17

Heidfeld vs Kubica (43): 7.4-7.4 = -0.01*

Heidfeld vs Massa (8): 7.4-7.1 = 0.25
Heidfeld vs Räikkönen (7): 6.9-6.3 = 0.57
Heidfeld vs Webber (6): 8.3-7.7 = 0.67
Heidfeld vs Kobayashi (4): 11.3-9.8 = 1.5

*rounding. Numbers are actually 7.395 - 7.405


Make of that what you will/want to but with these numbers Massa, Raikkonen Webber and Kobayashi (!) all managed to beat Heidfeld more convincingly than Kubica did.

_________________
"I'd rather lose a race going fast enough to win it, than win one going slow enough to lose it".
-Stirling Moss


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 5372
Banana Man wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
IMO...

Tier 1 - Superstars - Vettel, Senna, Lewis, Alonso, Hakkinen etc.

Tier 2 - Top Drivers - Well worth a WDC in the right car - Button, Kimi, Montoya, Rosberg, Hill, Kubica

Tier 3 - A bit below that, not really WDC material but good for a few wins - Webber, Rubens, JV (even if he did win), DC, Fisi, Massa (for 3 years) Heidfeld etc.

I think Rubens proved to the entire world that he had everything necessary to win championships but was held at bay by Ferrari. Had Michael not been the guy in the other car for several years, he would have become a multiple time champion so I think you have him lumped into the wrong group.


WTF? When and how did he prove to the entire world that he could win WDCs? And you mean like it was Button instead of Michael in the other car, he'd have won the championship?

This is the strangest post I've read on PF1 in a long time.

Absolutely he'd have mopped the floor with Button in his Ferrari years had Button been in the other car.
In 2009 Rubens was never comfortable with the brakes they chose to run on their cars and that was the difference between them, [[he and Button until the summer break, but once his brake system was changed to suit his preference he was quicker, but by this time everyone else caught up to the Brawn because Brawn had no money to further develop the car once the season started, so it was more difficult to beat the others but Rubens was able to win a few times where as Button never again won a race after the summer break and was barely able to hang on for his WDC. I mean, if you feel Button was better than Rubens that paints a different story for me.


I really didn't see anything from Rubens in the Ferrari which made me sit up and spit my tea out. His best season was probably 2002, when he had half of Schumacher's points. Says it all really. I'm a big Button fan but I'll readily admit drivers like Vettel, Lewis and Alonso had a little something extra in their pocket. Not Rubens though. Button, like Schumacher, seized the Championship when it was there for the taking and when it REALLY mattered, he was the superior driver. Not to mention he outscored Rubens in 3/4 years as team mates.

Anyway, that's all off topic. I personally believe Kubica to be superior to RB and in his prime was a top driver, on par with the likes of Button. Even if he's lost half a second, I'd still put him on par with Massa this year.


Agreed with this. Button always looked like a superior driver to Rubens. And we have direct comparison between them, which Button won. Not much more to say really?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23897
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
2007 was Kubica's rookie season.

Pretty much every driver looses there rookie season when against an experienced team mate.

Bottas is the only current driver to outscore their experienced team mate in their rookie year.

So really we are just looking at 2009.

Take out the rookie year and you have -

WDC 1-1
Points - 92 - 79 Kubica
Quali - 23 - 12 Kubica
Podiums - 8-5 Kubica
Wins - 1-0 Kubica
Head to Head - 15 - 11 Kubica

So yes, Heidfeld was better in Kubica's rookie year but the stats are one sided after that.

Then they are out weighed by the 2008 season when Kubica was excellent, the following season Heidfeld scored more points, was better in qualifying and was better in the head to head match up.

Also I don't know how you define your stats in view to race fueled qualifying, weather conditions and technical issues, my qualifying reads 20-14 for Kubica, head to head 14-11 Kubica.


Well yes that's kind of my point. Rookie year aside Kubica had 2 excellent seasons and one good one.

Who knows how good he would have gone on to be but at the point of his injury he had come off a better season than Vettel and they were at similar points in their careers.

Kubica was a year in front of Vettel, Kubica replaced Villenueve during the 2006 season because in testing they could see Kubica was faster than the race drivers JV and Heidfeld, I heard it was 3 tenths.

Kubica was mega on the Michelin tyres and he was favoured to beat Heidfeld in 2007, but the tyres changed and it knocked him back, this and the 2009 season asks questions about his consistency with rule changes, remember the cars changed for 2009.

So 2 seasons out of 4 he got beat, a mix of brilliance and then looking a bit average, in 2007 he had far more experience than Hamilton for instance, 2010 he looked very good but then he had a rookie teammate, we see this year how drivers with little experience can be 3rd rate, Palmer and Stroll.


He was a season ahead of Vettel in terms of experience. So as I said. Similar. I don't think it's really fair to factor in anyone's rookie year. Drivers usually improve into their second and Kubica did. I think it's fair to say that at the end of 2010 Kubica was at least as good as Vettel was then.

As I said before, Vettel went on to get better. Who knows whether Kubica would have done the same.

Still it's being selective with experience when in their primary years it's given so much importance, in Kubica's third season he got beat by Heidfeld, in Vettel's third season he was the world champion.

With Kubica it seems to go down the road a bit of the driver that makes the fewest mistakes is better even like in 2010 when that driver only finished 8th in the WDC and had a rookie teammate that makes an out and out performance comparisons even more difficult.

Vettel when on to be better in cutting out the mistakes he was making but not so much much in ultimate speed I would say after his third season whereas Kubica's third season lacked a bit of performance.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:31 am
Posts: 1629
DOLOMITE wrote:
Some more numbers for the statheads. What's frustrating is that the only real yardstick we have for Kubica is Heidfeld so it's interesting to turn that round and see how Kubica ranks amongst Heidfelds (many) teammates.

This is their av finish position when both finished:

NH vs Teammate (races): NH - Teammate = Diff

Heidfeld vs Villeneuve (7): 8.1-10.1 = -2
Heidfeld vs Alesi (1): 12-14 = -2
Heidfeld vs Pantano (3): 13.7-15.3 = -1.67
Heidfeld vs Glock (3): 11.3-12.3 = -1
Heidfeld vs Frentzen (8): 9.9-10.3 = -0.38
Heidfeld vs Petrov (6): 9.5-9.7 = -0.17

Heidfeld vs Kubica (43): 7.4-7.4 = -0.01*

Heidfeld vs Massa (8): 7.4-7.1 = 0.25
Heidfeld vs Räikkönen (7): 6.9-6.3 = 0.57
Heidfeld vs Webber (6): 8.3-7.7 = 0.67
Heidfeld vs Kobayashi (4): 11.3-9.8 = 1.5

*rounding. Numbers are actually 7.395 - 7.405


Make of that what you will/want to but with these numbers Massa, Raikkonen Webber and Kobayashi (!) all managed to beat Heidfeld more convincingly than Kubica did.


All you need to know about Kubica.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:20 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 12372
[quote="pokerman"]
I agree Kubica was underwhelming in 2009. He would have beaten Heidfeld in points though had in not been for Vettel in Australia. Would Kubica have been so much of a better driver had that not happened and he had beaten Heidfeld.

Hamilton on Kubica -

. “He’s better than three quarters of the grid. He’s one of the top five drivers in F1 and he’s not even here.”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 2118
Kubica would probably have won in Melbourne if Vettel hadn't hit him.

_________________
I remember when this website was all fields.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23897
mikeyg123 wrote:
I agree Kubica was underwhelming in 2009. He would have beaten Heidfeld in points though had in not been for Vettel in Australia. Would Kubica have been so much of a better driver had that not happened and he had beaten Heidfeld.

Hamilton on Kubica -

. “He’s better than three quarters of the grid. He’s one of the top five drivers in F1 and he’s not even here.”

By similar close margins it's determined that Heidfeld beat Webber, what we saw over 3 seasons was just how close it was between Kubica and Heidfeld and the 2009 season was the closest, the tie break season was as near enough a draw.

Australia would have given Kubica 4 more points than Heidfeld but the head to head tied at 6-6 and Heidfeld wins the qualifying 9-7.

When did Hamilton say that in terms of context?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Last edited by pokerman on Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23897
Banana Man wrote:
Kubica would probably have won in Melbourne if Vettel hadn't hit him.

It was very hard to pass in F1 in 2009, maybe one reason they crashed in the first place?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:32 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 12372
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I agree Kubica was underwhelming in 2009. He would have beaten Heidfeld in points though had in not been for Vettel in Australia. Would Kubica have been so much of a better driver had that not happened and he had beaten Heidfeld.

Hamilton on Kubica -

. “He’s better than three quarters of the grid. He’s one of the top five drivers in F1 and he’s not even here.”

By similar close margins it's determined that Heidfeld beat Webber, what we saw over 3 seasons was just how close it was between Kubica and Heidfeld and the 2009 season was the closest, the tie break season was as near enough a draw.

Australia would have given Kubica 4 more points than Heidfeld but the head to head tied at 6-6 and Heidfeld wins the qualifying 9-7.

When did Hamilton say that in terms of context?


It would have been sometime recently. Reported by Will Buxton.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:31 am
Posts: 1629
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I agree Kubica was underwhelming in 2009. He would have beaten Heidfeld in points though had in not been for Vettel in Australia. Would Kubica have been so much of a better driver had that not happened and he had beaten Heidfeld.

Hamilton on Kubica -

. “He’s better than three quarters of the grid. He’s one of the top five drivers in F1 and he’s not even here.”


Well Hamilton also says every crowd is the best crowd ever, so.....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23897
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I agree Kubica was underwhelming in 2009. He would have beaten Heidfeld in points though had in not been for Vettel in Australia. Would Kubica have been so much of a better driver had that not happened and he had beaten Heidfeld.

Hamilton on Kubica -

. “He’s better than three quarters of the grid. He’s one of the top five drivers in F1 and he’s not even here.”

By similar close margins it's determined that Heidfeld beat Webber, what we saw over 3 seasons was just how close it was between Kubica and Heidfeld and the 2009 season was the closest, the tie break season was as near enough a draw.

Australia would have given Kubica 4 more points than Heidfeld but the head to head tied at 6-6 and Heidfeld wins the qualifying 9-7.

When did Hamilton say that in terms of context?


It would have been sometime recently. Reported by Will Buxton.

I thought it must have been, Hamilton can't really say that now given Kubica's situation, but top 5 back in 2010 that's believable, at that time back in 2010 I would put Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel as better, after that Kubica could throw his hat in the ring with anybody.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23897
ReservoirDog wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I agree Kubica was underwhelming in 2009. He would have beaten Heidfeld in points though had in not been for Vettel in Australia. Would Kubica have been so much of a better driver had that not happened and he had beaten Heidfeld.

Hamilton on Kubica -

. “He’s better than three quarters of the grid. He’s one of the top five drivers in F1 and he’s not even here.”


Well Hamilton also says every crowd is the best crowd ever, so.....

No he's always rated Kubica going back to when they raced karts against one another in Italy then after that they were teammates in F3 at the Macau GP, likewise Kubica has always rated Hamilton.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:45 am 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 12372
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I agree Kubica was underwhelming in 2009. He would have beaten Heidfeld in points though had in not been for Vettel in Australia. Would Kubica have been so much of a better driver had that not happened and he had beaten Heidfeld.

Hamilton on Kubica -

. “He’s better than three quarters of the grid. He’s one of the top five drivers in F1 and he’s not even here.”

By similar close margins it's determined that Heidfeld beat Webber, what we saw over 3 seasons was just how close it was between Kubica and Heidfeld and the 2009 season was the closest, the tie break season was as near enough a draw.

Australia would have given Kubica 4 more points than Heidfeld but the head to head tied at 6-6 and Heidfeld wins the qualifying 9-7.

When did Hamilton say that in terms of context?


It would have been sometime recently. Reported by Will Buxton.

I thought it must have been, Hamilton can't really say that now given Kubica's situation, but top 5 back in 2010 that's believable, at that time back in 2010 I would put Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel as better, after that Kubica could throw his hat in the ring with anybody.


I would have rated him better than Vettel at the end of 2010, but otherwise I agree.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 5218
Location: Mumbai, India
Massa claims to know who Williams has chosen for 2018 but he won't give out the name & doesn't care if the driver chosen is the best option as he's leaving F1:
http://www.planetf1.com/news/massa-knows-who-his-williams-successor-is/

This means behind closed doors, the decision has already been made. Kubica getting to test next week probably is the best hint yet that's gotten the seat. If it was Di Resta for example, wouldn't he been driving the car at the test?

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23897
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I agree Kubica was underwhelming in 2009. He would have beaten Heidfeld in points though had in not been for Vettel in Australia. Would Kubica have been so much of a better driver had that not happened and he had beaten Heidfeld.

Hamilton on Kubica -

. “He’s better than three quarters of the grid. He’s one of the top five drivers in F1 and he’s not even here.”

By similar close margins it's determined that Heidfeld beat Webber, what we saw over 3 seasons was just how close it was between Kubica and Heidfeld and the 2009 season was the closest, the tie break season was as near enough a draw.

Australia would have given Kubica 4 more points than Heidfeld but the head to head tied at 6-6 and Heidfeld wins the qualifying 9-7.

When did Hamilton say that in terms of context?


It would have been sometime recently. Reported by Will Buxton.

I thought it must have been, Hamilton can't really say that now given Kubica's situation, but top 5 back in 2010 that's believable, at that time back in 2010 I would put Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel as better, after that Kubica could throw his hat in the ring with anybody.


I would have rated him better than Vettel at the end of 2010, but otherwise I agree.

That depends what parameter you use, Kubica made less mistakes but how do you measure ultimate performance between a driver who won the WDC and a driver that finished 8th and had a rookie teammate?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:00 am
Posts: 14
UnlikeUday wrote:
Massa claims to know who Williams has chosen for 2018 but he won't give out the name & doesn't care if the driver chosen is the best option as he's leaving F1:
http://www.planetf1.com/news/massa-knows-who-his-williams-successor-is/

This means behind closed doors, the decision has already been made. Kubica getting to test next week probably is the best hint yet that's gotten the seat. If it was Di Resta for example, wouldn't he been driving the car at the test?


Have to agree, if it wasn't Kubica then why put him in the car at all? If it was Di Resta he would be in.
Its a great story for Williams if they do get Robert in the car, I'd imagine possibly a lot of media and even sponsor attention next year, I'm Scottish and I'd like to see PdR back in F1 but I think even a more "limited" Kubica has more raw talent and if he's fit he's going to blow Stroll away.

In all my years watching F1 (say 95-onwards) Kubica has to be in my top 5 in terms of speed and talent, lets hope he still has it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:55 pm
Posts: 17
They should be keeping Massa, bringing in Kubica, and sticking Stroll back where he belongs in the Driver's school. I can't remember a time when the driver that has consistently beaten his team-mate has been the one to leave, and it not to a better team, but retirement. William's have everything seriously back to front with this carry-on.


Last edited by Aardvarx on Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:23 pm
Posts: 236
They might not be testing Di Resta because they already know what he's like as he's their test driver.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 2118
Aardvarx wrote:
They should be keeping Massa, bringing in Kubica, and sticking Stroll back where he belongs in the Driver's school. I can't remember a time when the driver that has consistently beaten his team-mate has been the one two leave, and it not to a better team, but retirement. William's have everything seriously back to front with this carry-on.


It's ironic really because the rest of his career Massa has been beaten by his team mate and kept his seat.

_________________
I remember when this website was all fields.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23897
Aardvarx wrote:
They should be keeping Massa, bringing in Kubica, and sticking Stroll back where he belongs in the Driver's school. I can't remember a time when the driver that has consistently beaten his team-mate has been the one to leave, and it not to a better team, but retirement. William's have everything seriously back to front with this carry-on.

Williams are more concerned with money up front and have been like this for a while really, despite Stroll's war chest Kubica has to bring money and even then they are selling FP1 seats to Sirotkin, I heard either 8 or 11, with Kubica having to sit out everytime.

In the wake of all this the $6M that Massa was being paid was always going to be a bit shaky.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 8892
Whoever Stroll's teammate is next year it will be impossible to evaluate his performance as Stroll is so inconsistent pace wise.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 1412
rumour says very clearly kubica, and that is fantastic news and if he is consistently fast Williams will have backers throwing money at them and of course this will help strolls career massively

certainly on channel 4 that's their opinion with just insurance details to sort out as kubica got a end of career payout and has to pay that back


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 23897
Covalent wrote:
Whoever Stroll's teammate is next year it will be impossible to evaluate his performance as Stroll is so inconsistent pace wise.

Yes I said this as well.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:52 pm
Posts: 2267
Kubica completes 100 laps in testing.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... dhabi-test

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 5218
Location: Mumbai, India
F1_Ernie wrote:
Kubica completes 100 laps in testing.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... dhabi-test


Would love to see an overhead camera showing how he controls the steering wheel & various buttons on the wheel!

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 9718
Location: Ireland
If anyone still had any doubts

Image
https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/mediumcorruptbats

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost



FA#14


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:46 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Kashyyyk
Kubica returning to F1 is uninspiring? Really?
Tell it to all the all the people he inspired to change their lives. Some are quitting smoking, others are losing weight, but most of all you should tell it to all handicapped who regained their self confidence... Yes, I know such people personally, and read from 10 times more of them.
6000 people send their pics to create a giant Kubica flag that was displayed at Yas Marina when he tested the Pirellis. Just to let him know they support him without even knowing if he'll drive for Williams or not. All saying he is an inspiration not to give up, to be a better person.. Etc.
What inspires you Dolomite, if all this is not enough?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 5372
Sarhan wrote:
Kubica returning to F1 is uninspiring? Really?
Tell it to all the all the people he inspired to change their lives. Some are quitting smoking, others are losing weight, but most of all you should tell it to all handicapped who regained their self confidence... Yes, I know such people personally, and read from 10 times more of them.
6000 people send their pics to create a giant Kubica flag that was displayed at Yas Marina when he tested the Pirellis. Just to let him know they support him without even knowing if he'll drive for Williams or not. All saying he is an inspiration not to give up, to be a better person.. Etc.
What inspires you Dolomite, if all this is not enough?

You are confusing driving talent with inspiration. The very opening post specifically mentions that this is not a dig against Kubica or the others. It is all about the team and if they could have had better drivers on their seats. So not sure why you take such offense.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:46 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Kashyyyk
Siao7 wrote:
Sarhan wrote:
Kubica returning to F1 is uninspiring? Really?
Tell it to all the all the people he inspired to change their lives. Some are quitting smoking, others are losing weight, but most of all you should tell it to all handicapped who regained their self confidence... Yes, I know such people personally, and read from 10 times more of them.
6000 people send their pics to create a giant Kubica flag that was displayed at Yas Marina when he tested the Pirellis. Just to let him know they support him without even knowing if he'll drive for Williams or not. All saying he is an inspiration not to give up, to be a better person.. Etc.
What inspires you Dolomite, if all this is not enough?

You are confusing driving talent with inspiration. The very opening post specifically mentions that this is not a dig against Kubica or the others. It is all about the team and if they could have had better drivers on their seats. So not sure why you take such offense.


I dont think Im confusing talent with inspiration, and I certainly didnt take any offence :-) the title says the options are uninspiring, Kubica is one of them, hence my post. Anyway, no problem for me if anybody finds his return uninspiring, Im just surprised.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 20998
Sarhan wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Sarhan wrote:
Kubica returning to F1 is uninspiring? Really?
Tell it to all the all the people he inspired to change their lives. Some are quitting smoking, others are losing weight, but most of all you should tell it to all handicapped who regained their self confidence... Yes, I know such people personally, and read from 10 times more of them.
6000 people send their pics to create a giant Kubica flag that was displayed at Yas Marina when he tested the Pirellis. Just to let him know they support him without even knowing if he'll drive for Williams or not. All saying he is an inspiration not to give up, to be a better person.. Etc.
What inspires you Dolomite, if all this is not enough?

You are confusing driving talent with inspiration. The very opening post specifically mentions that this is not a dig against Kubica or the others. It is all about the team and if they could have had better drivers on their seats. So not sure why you take such offense.


I dont think Im confusing talent with inspiration, and I certainly didnt take any offence :-) the title says the options are uninspiring, Kubica is one of them, hence my post. Anyway, no problem for me if anybody finds his return uninspiring, Im just surprised.
I think you might be. The OP states the lineup is uninspiring. It's pretty clear he's talking from a driving perspective. I don't think Kubica's personal support is relevant in that context?

From a human perspective, it's inspiring for sure. But from a racing one, there are legitimate questions to be asked. I wrote in another thread how Schumacher struggled after a three year absence. And this is a man widely considered as at least a contender for G.O.A.T. It's a tall order for Kubica to surpass him on his return, especially given both his injury and length of time away from F1. There's a greater chance that he will disappoint that that he will excel, and this is not reflection on him, but the demands of the sport.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 5372
Zoue wrote:
Sarhan wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Sarhan wrote:
Kubica returning to F1 is uninspiring? Really?
Tell it to all the all the people he inspired to change their lives. Some are quitting smoking, others are losing weight, but most of all you should tell it to all handicapped who regained their self confidence... Yes, I know such people personally, and read from 10 times more of them.
6000 people send their pics to create a giant Kubica flag that was displayed at Yas Marina when he tested the Pirellis. Just to let him know they support him without even knowing if he'll drive for Williams or not. All saying he is an inspiration not to give up, to be a better person.. Etc.
What inspires you Dolomite, if all this is not enough?

You are confusing driving talent with inspiration. The very opening post specifically mentions that this is not a dig against Kubica or the others. It is all about the team and if they could have had better drivers on their seats. So not sure why you take such offense.


I dont think Im confusing talent with inspiration, and I certainly didnt take any offence :-) the title says the options are uninspiring, Kubica is one of them, hence my post. Anyway, no problem for me if anybody finds his return uninspiring, Im just surprised.
I think you might be. The OP states the lineup is uninspiring. It's pretty clear he's talking from a driving perspective. I don't think Kubica's personal support is relevant in that context?

From a human perspective, it's inspiring for sure. But from a racing one, there are legitimate questions to be asked. I wrote in another thread how Schumacher struggled after a three year absence. And this is a man widely considered as at least a contender for G.O.A.T. It's a tall order for Kubica to surpass him on his return, especially given both his injury and length of time away from F1. There's a greater chance that he will disappoint that that he will excel, and this is not reflection on him, but the demands of the sport.


Yes, Zoue's post is what I tried to (unsuccessfully) convey!

Again, the OP specifically says that it is not a dig on the drivers and is talking about talent. I thought that Sarhan's response was quite strong, to a thread that is not intending to have a go at Kubica the man, rather examining Kubica the driver and how is he the best choice for a team.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:46 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Kashyyyk
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Sarhan wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Sarhan wrote:
Kubica returning to F1 is uninspiring? Really?
Tell it to all the all the people he inspired to change their lives. Some are quitting smoking, others are losing weight, but most of all you should tell it to all handicapped who regained their self confidence... Yes, I know such people personally, and read from 10 times more of them.
6000 people send their pics to create a giant Kubica flag that was displayed at Yas Marina when he tested the Pirellis. Just to let him know they support him without even knowing if he'll drive for Williams or not. All saying he is an inspiration not to give up, to be a better person.. Etc.
What inspires you Dolomite, if all this is not enough?

You are confusing driving talent with inspiration. The very opening post specifically mentions that this is not a dig against Kubica or the others. It is all about the team and if they could have had better drivers on their seats. So not sure why you take such offense.


I dont think Im confusing talent with inspiration, and I certainly didnt take any offence :-) the title says the options are uninspiring, Kubica is one of them, hence my post. Anyway, no problem for me if anybody finds his return uninspiring, Im just surprised.
I think you might be. The OP states the lineup is uninspiring. It's pretty clear he's talking from a driving perspective. I don't think Kubica's personal support is relevant in that context?

From a human perspective, it's inspiring for sure. But from a racing one, there are legitimate questions to be asked. I wrote in another thread how Schumacher struggled after a three year absence. And this is a man widely considered as at least a contender for G.O.A.T. It's a tall order for Kubica to surpass him on his return, especially given both his injury and length of time away from F1. There's a greater chance that he will disappoint that that he will excel, and this is not reflection on him, but the demands of the sport.


Yes, Zoue's post is what I tried to (unsuccessfully) convey!

Again, the OP specifically says that it is not a dig on the drivers and is talking about talent. I thought that Sarhan's response was quite strong, to a thread that is not intending to have a go at Kubica the man, rather examining Kubica the driver and how is he the best choice for a team.


So Williams might think of other benefits than Kubicas talent? Why not hire another pay driver then? Surely a quicker way to get benfits for the team than just being a part of kubicas returning story.
Anyway, if they hire him, time will tell if they were right.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 5372
Sarhan wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Sarhan wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
You are confusing driving talent with inspiration. The very opening post specifically mentions that this is not a dig against Kubica or the others. It is all about the team and if they could have had better drivers on their seats. So not sure why you take such offense.


I dont think Im confusing talent with inspiration, and I certainly didnt take any offence :-) the title says the options are uninspiring, Kubica is one of them, hence my post. Anyway, no problem for me if anybody finds his return uninspiring, Im just surprised.
I think you might be. The OP states the lineup is uninspiring. It's pretty clear he's talking from a driving perspective. I don't think Kubica's personal support is relevant in that context?

From a human perspective, it's inspiring for sure. But from a racing one, there are legitimate questions to be asked. I wrote in another thread how Schumacher struggled after a three year absence. And this is a man widely considered as at least a contender for G.O.A.T. It's a tall order for Kubica to surpass him on his return, especially given both his injury and length of time away from F1. There's a greater chance that he will disappoint that that he will excel, and this is not reflection on him, but the demands of the sport.


Yes, Zoue's post is what I tried to (unsuccessfully) convey!

Again, the OP specifically says that it is not a dig on the drivers and is talking about talent. I thought that Sarhan's response was quite strong, to a thread that is not intending to have a go at Kubica the man, rather examining Kubica the driver and how is he the best choice for a team.


So Williams might think of other benefits than Kubicas talent? Why not hire another pay driver then? Surely a quicker way to get benfits for the team than just being a part of kubicas returning story.
Anyway, if they hire him, time will tell if they were right.

True, they may be thinking of other benefits other than Kubica's driving. His talent was undeniable, but whether he can still cut it only time will tell.

I'd probably put Kubica and a younger talent next to him, although this bears the risk that both of them not performing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 5218
Location: Mumbai, India
Modification made to cockpit for making it comfortable for Kubica's arm motion around the steering wheel:

Image
Source - www.motorsport.com

Image
Source - www.motorsport.com

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:29 am
Posts: 1905
Kubica impressing the Williams garage with his car tuning ability, would be surprised if he is not involved at all with Williams next year.

http://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/1 ... ortet.html

The Pole brought ideas to the table, which had never heard the technicians of the former pilots Felipe Massa and Valtteri Bottas.

_________________
Kimi: "Come on, get the McLaren out of the way!”


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 341
Location: b. c. canada
If a driver(who has not driven in f1 for years) is bringing up ideas that the engineers have never heard of i would hire new engineers.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 4549
Location: Michigan, USA
spiritone wrote:
If a driver(who has not driven in f1 for years) is bringing up ideas that the engineers have never heard of i would hire new engineers.

I'm just guessing here, but I assume it would be purely setup ideas to fix driving issues, not actual ways to improve the car. One of the few things the engineers still have to trust the driver on is car setup, since it's so dependent on feel.

_________________
PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (3 wins, 12 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #3)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:28 pm
Posts: 341
Location: b. c. canada
Judging by the inconsistency of williams in qualifying it still seems they need better engineers. How many times did they qualify bad and then ended up with better race pace. Something is missing. Merc had their engineers going 24 hrs a day to fix their setup problems maybe they could have saved money by hiring kubica.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:14 pm
Posts: 2898
Still no announcement huh? Looks to me like they are going to pass on Kubica. His latest comments that he is currently driving at 90% of his abilitity certainly couldn't have helped his chances. Williams should just put Wherlein in the car and call it a day, but I understand they care about the big bucks and want to make a splash...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:53 pm
Posts: 5218
Location: Mumbai, India
kleefton wrote:
Still no announcement huh? Looks to me like they are going to pass on Kubica. His latest comments that he is currently driving at 90% of his abilitity certainly couldn't have helped his chances. Williams should just put Wherlein in the car and call it a day, but I understand they care about the big bucks and want to make a splash...


Williams I feel are waiting for the medical tests of Kubica. All depends on this. If not Kubica, I wonder if they'll go for Wehrlein or Di Resta!

_________________
Feel The Fourth


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], mikeyg123, Rockie and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group