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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:56 am 
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Lewis Hamilton was 'weird' as a team-mate, says Jenson Button

I don't think his view is particularly revolutionary. There was always a tension between Hamilton and Button. It's also clear that Mclaren-era Hamilton was repressed nd stifled by Dennis' professional brand.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:17 am 
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Rivalry is normal when both team mates challenge for wins. The only time partnerships work out peacefully is when they are competing for nothing. Likewise for Alonso/Button. They were competing for nothing essentially for McLaren.

It's also normal to effectively build a team around a single driver that has talent. We saw that RBR with Vettel, Michael Schumacher at Ferrari, Alonso at Renault etc.

Unless Bottas improves over the next 18 months we could potentially see it happen at Merc till they replace him.

I also never understand this attack on Ron Dennis. Not everyone liked him but he attempted to do what Manchester United has been doing for the last 15 years - create a franchise brand.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:27 am 
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Button as a champion should be able to forge his own story and not keep obsessing over Hamilton. He spent 15 years in F1 and all he has to say is some imagined rivalry with Hamilton? Especially when one suspects Hamilton never has and never will lose sleep over Button and this 'rivalry'. Sad!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:27 am 
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Interesting extract:

"I'd say that over the years Fernando had been one of - if not the - toughest competitors I'd faced, both as a team-mate and a rival at other teams," Button writes.

"Lewis was unbelievably quick and could pull a lap out of the bag just like that; him and Ayrton Senna were the two quickest guys over one lap, maybe ever.

"But Fernando was the more rounded driver. I'd know, even if I out-qualified him, that he'd still be tough to beat in a race.


I can see where he's coming from on that, although generally speaking I think that Alonso is vastly underrated as a qualifier.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:33 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Interesting extract:

"I'd say that over the years Fernando had been one of - if not the - toughest competitors I'd faced, both as a team-mate and a rival at other teams," Button writes.

"Lewis was unbelievably quick and could pull a lap out of the bag just like that; him and Ayrton Senna were the two quickest guys over one lap, maybe ever.

"But Fernando was the more rounded driver. I'd know, even if I out-qualified him, that he'd still be tough to beat in a race.


I can see where he's coming from on that, although generally speaking I think that Alonso is vastly underrated as a qualifier.

Maybe we don't even have to speculate since there is evidence from 2007 that Hamilton is as tough a competitor as Alonso? I suspect Button is trying to give himself props there.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:35 am 
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bonecrasher wrote:
Button as a champion should be able to forge his own story and not keep obsessing over Hamilton. He spent 15 years in F1 and all he has to say is some imagined rivalry with Hamilton? Especially when one suspects Hamilton never has and never will lose sleep over Button and this 'rivalry'. Sad!

Do you think that was the entire content of his autobiography? :uhoh:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:36 am 
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Teddy007 wrote:
Rivalry is normal when both team mates challenge for wins. The only time partnerships work out peacefully is when they are competing for nothing. Likewise for Alonso/Button. They were competing for nothing essentially for McLaren.

It's also normal to effectively build a team around a single driver that has talent. We saw that RBR with Vettel, Michael Schumacher at Ferrari, Alonso at Renault etc.

Unless Bottas improves over the next 18 months we could potentially see it happen at Merc till they replace him.

I also never understand this attack on Ron Dennis. Not everyone liked him but he attempted to do what Manchester United has been doing for the last 15 years - create a franchise brand.

I agree about the Ron Dennis thing. The way he ran his team was arguably very successful. They were almost always at the pointy end when he was in charge, so while I do think his personality might grate and he also didn't do them any favours by falling out with various sponsors over the years, there's no denying he built a very competent race team


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:39 am 
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bonecrasher wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Interesting extract:

"I'd say that over the years Fernando had been one of - if not the - toughest competitors I'd faced, both as a team-mate and a rival at other teams," Button writes.

"Lewis was unbelievably quick and could pull a lap out of the bag just like that; him and Ayrton Senna were the two quickest guys over one lap, maybe ever.

"But Fernando was the more rounded driver. I'd know, even if I out-qualified him, that he'd still be tough to beat in a race.


I can see where he's coming from on that, although generally speaking I think that Alonso is vastly underrated as a qualifier.

Maybe we don't even have to speculate since there is evidence from 2007 that Hamilton is as tough a competitor as Alonso? I suspect Button is trying to give himself props there.


Sometimes the most obvious conclusion is the right one. Maybe Button is just giving us some honest opinions based on his own experiences, and how he has processed those experiences.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:41 am 
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Covalent wrote:
bonecrasher wrote:
Button as a champion should be able to forge his own story and not keep obsessing over Hamilton. He spent 15 years in F1 and all he has to say is some imagined rivalry with Hamilton? Especially when one suspects Hamilton never has and never will lose sleep over Button and this 'rivalry'. Sad!

Do you think that was the entire content of his autobiography? :uhoh:

He's obviously picked what he believes are the best bits of the entire book to try and shift a few copies.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:43 am 
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Ennis wrote:
bonecrasher wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Interesting extract:

"I'd say that over the years Fernando had been one of - if not the - toughest competitors I'd faced, both as a team-mate and a rival at other teams," Button writes.

"Lewis was unbelievably quick and could pull a lap out of the bag just like that; him and Ayrton Senna were the two quickest guys over one lap, maybe ever.

"But Fernando was the more rounded driver. I'd know, even if I out-qualified him, that he'd still be tough to beat in a race.


I can see where he's coming from on that, although generally speaking I think that Alonso is vastly underrated as a qualifier.

Maybe we don't even have to speculate since there is evidence from 2007 that Hamilton is as tough a competitor as Alonso? I suspect Button is trying to give himself props there.


Sometimes the most obvious conclusion is the right one. Maybe Button is just giving us some honest opinions based on his own experiences, and how he has processed those experiences.


Yes. Button's thoughts are hardly out of the ordinary. He seems a straight forward bloke, I doubt he has an agenda.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:55 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Ennis wrote:
bonecrasher wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Interesting extract:

"I'd say that over the years Fernando had been one of - if not the - toughest competitors I'd faced, both as a team-mate and a rival at other teams," Button writes.

"Lewis was unbelievably quick and could pull a lap out of the bag just like that; him and Ayrton Senna were the two quickest guys over one lap, maybe ever.

"But Fernando was the more rounded driver. I'd know, even if I out-qualified him, that he'd still be tough to beat in a race.


I can see where he's coming from on that, although generally speaking I think that Alonso is vastly underrated as a qualifier.

Maybe we don't even have to speculate since there is evidence from 2007 that Hamilton is as tough a competitor as Alonso? I suspect Button is trying to give himself props there.


Sometimes the most obvious conclusion is the right one. Maybe Button is just giving us some honest opinions based on his own experiences, and how he has processed those experiences.


Yes. Button's thoughts are hardly out of the ordinary. He seems a straight forward bloke, I doubt he has an agenda.

True. Although watching Hamilton over the last 11 years there have been a handful of races that Lewis lacked pace on a Sunday. Button is suggesting it happened fairly regularly which is not the case. The only races I can recall that Button had genuine pace over Hamilton were Australia 2010 and Spa 2012.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:11 am 
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bonecrasher wrote:
Covalent wrote:
bonecrasher wrote:
Button as a champion should be able to forge his own story and not keep obsessing over Hamilton. He spent 15 years in F1 and all he has to say is some imagined rivalry with Hamilton? Especially when one suspects Hamilton never has and never will lose sleep over Button and this 'rivalry'. Sad!

Do you think that was the entire content of his autobiography? :uhoh:

He's obviously picked what he believes are the best bits of the entire book to try and shift a few copies.

You realise Button didn't write that article himself right?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:31 am 
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bonecrasher wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ennis wrote:
bonecrasher wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Interesting extract:

"I'd say that over the years Fernando had been one of - if not the - toughest competitors I'd faced, both as a team-mate and a rival at other teams," Button writes.

"Lewis was unbelievably quick and could pull a lap out of the bag just like that; him and Ayrton Senna were the two quickest guys over one lap, maybe ever.

"But Fernando was the more rounded driver. I'd know, even if I out-qualified him, that he'd still be tough to beat in a race.


I can see where he's coming from on that, although generally speaking I think that Alonso is vastly underrated as a qualifier.

Maybe we don't even have to speculate since there is evidence from 2007 that Hamilton is as tough a competitor as Alonso? I suspect Button is trying to give himself props there.


Sometimes the most obvious conclusion is the right one. Maybe Button is just giving us some honest opinions based on his own experiences, and how he has processed those experiences.


Yes. Button's thoughts are hardly out of the ordinary. He seems a straight forward bloke, I doubt he has an agenda.

True. Although watching Hamilton over the last 11 years there have been a handful of races that Lewis lacked pace on a Sunday. Button is suggesting it happened fairly regularly which is not the case. The only races I can recall that Button had genuine pace over Hamilton were Australia 2010 and Spa 2012.


Suzuka 2011. Hamilton retired at turn 1 in Spa 2012?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:46 am 
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bonecrasher wrote:
Covalent wrote:
bonecrasher wrote:
Button as a champion should be able to forge his own story and not keep obsessing over Hamilton. He spent 15 years in F1 and all he has to say is some imagined rivalry with Hamilton? Especially when one suspects Hamilton never has and never will lose sleep over Button and this 'rivalry'. Sad!

Do you think that was the entire content of his autobiography? :uhoh:

He's obviously picked what he believes are the best bits of the entire book to try and shift a few copies.

Or the writer of that article took the bits that would garner the most clicks out of a book that I'm sure talks about more than just Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:02 am 
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bonecrasher wrote:
Button as a champion should be able to forge his own story and not keep obsessing over Hamilton. He spent 15 years in F1 and all he has to say is some imagined rivalry with Hamilton? Especially when one suspects Hamilton never has and never will lose sleep over Button and this 'rivalry'. Sad!


"Imagined" rivalry? They've been teammates for a few years, and your teammate is the first one you want to beat. There's always going to be rivalry.
Button as a lot more to say, and he does.

And, erm.. "Sad!"? Is that you, Donald?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:20 am 
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bonecrasher wrote:
Covalent wrote:
bonecrasher wrote:
Button as a champion should be able to forge his own story and not keep obsessing over Hamilton. He spent 15 years in F1 and all he has to say is some imagined rivalry with Hamilton? Especially when one suspects Hamilton never has and never will lose sleep over Button and this 'rivalry'. Sad!

Do you think that was the entire content of his autobiography? :uhoh:

He's obviously picked what he believes are the best bits of the entire book to try and shift a few copies.

Who's picked? Jenson? :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:21 am 
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bonecrasher wrote:
... Although watching Hamilton over the last 11 years there have been a handful of races that Lewis lacked pace on a Sunday. Button is suggesting it happened fairly regularly which is not the case. The only races I can recall that Button had genuine pace over Hamilton were Australia 2010 and Spa 2012.
Where in that article is Button suggesting that Hamilton lacked race pace fairly regularly?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Oh this thread is going to be great :uhoh:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:16 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Interesting extract:

"I'd say that over the years Fernando had been one of - if not the - toughest competitors I'd faced, both as a team-mate and a rival at other teams," Button writes.

"Lewis was unbelievably quick and could pull a lap out of the bag just like that; him and Ayrton Senna were the two quickest guys over one lap, maybe ever.

"But Fernando was the more rounded driver. I'd know, even if I out-qualified him, that he'd still be tough to beat in a race.


I can see where he's coming from on that, although generally speaking I think that Alonso is vastly underrated as a qualifier.

He isn't saying Fernando isn't one of the best qualifiers ever, he's just saying in his opinion that Senna and Hamilton are the top two.

Fernando could well be number 3, it's just not quite at the same level as the other two.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:59 pm 
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It seems a bit bizarre for Button to be writing a tell-all book so soon after his F1 career has ended. Obviously the media will hone in on whatever he says about other drivers. In general, these types of books tend to go into these sorts of details in terms of describing their relationship and such. It's just weird for him to write this book at 37 when some people still kind of felt like he might return to the grid some day. It's sort of an awkward thing to do.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:02 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
It seems a bit bizarre for Button to be writing a tell-all book so soon after his F1 career has ended. Obviously the media will hone in on whatever he says about other drivers. In general, these types of books tend to go into these sorts of details in terms of describing their relationship and such. It's just weird for him to write this book at 37 when some people still kind of felt like he might return to the grid some day. It's sort of an awkward thing to do.

I've seen other articles in which he has said he will definitely never do F1 again, and that he's had offers but turned them down, said he will race again but won't do F1 without his dad.

So I guess since he knows he will never go back it's not that strange.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:07 pm 
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bonecrasher wrote:
Button as a champion should be able to forge his own story and not keep obsessing over Hamilton. He spent 15 years in F1 and all he has to say is some imagined rivalry with Hamilton? Especially when one suspects Hamilton never has and never will lose sleep over Button and this 'rivalry'. Sad!

Seems a bit harsh. What's he supposed to write in his autobiography if he should forget about people he competed against or was team mates with?

Not sure the relevance of Hamilton losing sleep is. You think Hamilton is Button's target audience? :?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Interesting extract:

"I'd say that over the years Fernando had been one of - if not the - toughest competitors I'd faced, both as a team-mate and a rival at other teams," Button writes.

"Lewis was unbelievably quick and could pull a lap out of the bag just like that; him and Ayrton Senna were the two quickest guys over one lap, maybe ever.

"But Fernando was the more rounded driver. I'd know, even if I out-qualified him, that he'd still be tough to beat in a race.


I can see where he's coming from on that, although generally speaking I think that Alonso is vastly underrated as a qualifier.

He isn't saying Fernando isn't one of the best qualifiers ever, he's just saying in his opinion that Senna and Hamilton are the top two.

Fernando could well be number 3, it's just not quite at the same level as the other two.

Yes, true. Don't mean to make a big deal of it, but I suspect that Alonso might possibly be able to give Hamilton a run for his money in qualifying. That's not to take anything away from either.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:31 pm 
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bonecrasher wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ennis wrote:
bonecrasher wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Interesting extract:

"I'd say that over the years Fernando had been one of - if not the - toughest competitors I'd faced, both as a team-mate and a rival at other teams," Button writes.

"Lewis was unbelievably quick and could pull a lap out of the bag just like that; him and Ayrton Senna were the two quickest guys over one lap, maybe ever.

"But Fernando was the more rounded driver. I'd know, even if I out-qualified him, that he'd still be tough to beat in a race.


I can see where he's coming from on that, although generally speaking I think that Alonso is vastly underrated as a qualifier.

Maybe we don't even have to speculate since there is evidence from 2007 that Hamilton is as tough a competitor as Alonso? I suspect Button is trying to give himself props there.


Sometimes the most obvious conclusion is the right one. Maybe Button is just giving us some honest opinions based on his own experiences, and how he has processed those experiences.


Yes. Button's thoughts are hardly out of the ordinary. He seems a straight forward bloke, I doubt he has an agenda.

True. Although watching Hamilton over the last 11 years there have been a handful of races that Lewis lacked pace on a Sunday. Button is suggesting it happened fairly regularly which is not the case. The only races I can recall that Button had genuine pace over Hamilton were Australia 2010 and Spa 2012.


I'm sure i read these extracts a few months ago, i think they are pretty accurate. The only grip I had with them is Button giving the impression he was troubling Hamilton pace wise more often that he was.

On pace he was better more than twice>

Japan 2011 - Just outright quicker as Hamilton said he struggled with the tyres

Australia 2012 - jumped him at the start and controlled the race throughout

Monza 2010 - likely here too although Hamilton DNF'd on lap 1 the team split the cars strategy, 1 F duct one without

Spa 2012 - likely here too although Hamilton DNF'd on lap 1. After Friday getting rained off, team gambled on split strategy again.

Brazil 2012 - when the track was damp with slick tyres Button was quicker and overtook Lewis. When the track was wet with wet tyres, Hamilton was quicker and overtook Button. That is there underlying strength in the wet.

There was also another race or two in 2011 and he beat him in races like Australia 2010 and China 2010 (and the rest of the field) by taking big gambles on wet tracks.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:07 pm 
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lamo wrote:

I'm sure i read these extracts a few months ago, i think they are pretty accurate. The only grip I had with them is Button giving the impression he was troubling Hamilton pace wise more often that he was.

On pace he was better more than twice>

Japan 2011 - Just outright quicker as Hamilton said he struggled with the tyres

Australia 2012 - jumped him at the start and controlled the race throughout

Monza 2010 - likely here too although Hamilton DNF'd on lap 1 the team split the cars strategy, 1 F duct one without

Spa 2012 - likely here too although Hamilton DNF'd on lap 1. After Friday getting rained off, team gambled on split strategy again.

Brazil 2012 - when the track was damp with slick tyres Button was quicker and overtook Lewis. When the track was wet with wet tyres, Hamilton was quicker and overtook Button. That is there underlying strength in the wet.

There was also another race or two in 2011 and he beat him in races like Australia 2010 and China 2010 (and the rest of the field) by taking big gambles on wet tracks.


He won't be the first or the last F1 driver to believe himself quicker in relation to another driver than he actually was.

Bear in mind he also had the pleasure of 2011 Hamilton, which could explain his general perception of Hamilton being inconsistent. He was paired with Hamilton during Hamilton's weakest year(s), IMO.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:20 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Interesting extract:

"I'd say that over the years Fernando had been one of - if not the - toughest competitors I'd faced, both as a team-mate and a rival at other teams," Button writes.

"Lewis was unbelievably quick and could pull a lap out of the bag just like that; him and Ayrton Senna were the two quickest guys over one lap, maybe ever.

"But Fernando was the more rounded driver. I'd know, even if I out-qualified him, that he'd still be tough to beat in a race.


I can see where he's coming from on that, although generally speaking I think that Alonso is vastly underrated as a qualifier.

I think that you either agree or you don't rather than adding caveats.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:26 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
It seems a bit bizarre for Button to be writing a tell-all book so soon after his F1 career has ended. Obviously the media will hone in on whatever he says about other drivers. In general, these types of books tend to go into these sorts of details in terms of describing their relationship and such. It's just weird for him to write this book at 37 when some people still kind of felt like he might return to the grid some day. It's sort of an awkward thing to do.

It's the right time for him to do it in regards to sales because the drivers he talks about are still active in F1 so there's going to be more interest, Button has very much retired from F1.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:36 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
It seems a bit bizarre for Button to be writing a tell-all book so soon after his F1 career has ended. Obviously the media will hone in on whatever he says about other drivers. In general, these types of books tend to go into these sorts of details in terms of describing their relationship and such. It's just weird for him to write this book at 37 when some people still kind of felt like he might return to the grid some day. It's sort of an awkward thing to do.


I'm a little surprised too but he seems clear he's not coming back so makes sense I guess.

Alonso releasing his autobiography next year is one that really surprised me. He doesn't sound like he's going anywhere so that could be interesting.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:40 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
It seems a bit bizarre for Button to be writing a tell-all book so soon after his F1 career has ended. Obviously the media will hone in on whatever he says about other drivers. In general, these types of books tend to go into these sorts of details in terms of describing their relationship and such. It's just weird for him to write this book at 37 when some people still kind of felt like he might return to the grid some day. It's sort of an awkward thing to do.

Is there anything to suggest this is actually a "tell-all" book?
You'd imagine journalist have picked out what they consider to be the juiciest most controversial parts, and what's been written here is hardly scandalous. It strikes me more of giving a general impression of his relationship with his former team mates in a rather restrained way, something that isn't uncommon and wouldn't seem out of place even with current drivers.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:56 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
It seems a bit bizarre for Button to be writing a tell-all book so soon after his F1 career has ended. Obviously the media will hone in on whatever he says about other drivers. In general, these types of books tend to go into these sorts of details in terms of describing their relationship and such. It's just weird for him to write this book at 37 when some people still kind of felt like he might return to the grid some day. It's sort of an awkward thing to do.


I'm a little surprised too but he seems clear he's not coming back so makes sense I guess.

Alonso releasing his autobiography next year is one that really surprised me. He doesn't sound like he's going anywhere so that could be interesting.

I guess driving for McLaren makes people introspective about their lives these days lol


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:04 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Interesting extract:

"I'd say that over the years Fernando had been one of - if not the - toughest competitors I'd faced, both as a team-mate and a rival at other teams," Button writes.

"Lewis was unbelievably quick and could pull a lap out of the bag just like that; him and Ayrton Senna were the two quickest guys over one lap, maybe ever.

"But Fernando was the more rounded driver. I'd know, even if I out-qualified him, that he'd still be tough to beat in a race.


I can see where he's coming from on that, although generally speaking I think that Alonso is vastly underrated as a qualifier.

I think that you either agree or you don't rather than adding caveats.

I think that's rubbish, frankly. Where's the rule that says you have to agree with someone 100% or not at all?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:20 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
It seems a bit bizarre for Button to be writing a tell-all book so soon after his F1 career has ended. Obviously the media will hone in on whatever he says about other drivers. In general, these types of books tend to go into these sorts of details in terms of describing their relationship and such. It's just weird for him to write this book at 37 when some people still kind of felt like he might return to the grid some day. It's sort of an awkward thing to do.


I'm a little surprised too but he seems clear he's not coming back so makes sense I guess.

Alonso releasing his autobiography next year is one that really surprised me. He doesn't sound like he's going anywhere so that could be interesting.

I guess driving for McLaren makes people introspective about their lives these days lol


Plenty of down time to think about it lately while the team work on fixing the cars. :o

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:44 pm 
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It's not surprising that F1 drivers are so boring, when you take into consideration just how petty and easily offended F1 fans are.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:45 pm 
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Seems fairly accurate to me. I would add that I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso had lost a little edge on his ultimate pace by the time he teamed up with Button. And I don't think many would disagree that Hamilton has become a significantly improved all round package since his days with McLaren. Winning multiple titles and even his narrow loss in 2016 have all made him stronger in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:05 pm 
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WHoff78 wrote:
Seems fairly accurate to me. I would add that I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso had lost a little edge on his ultimate pace by the time he teamed up with Button. And I don't think many would disagree that Hamilton has become a significantly improved all round package since his days with McLaren. Winning multiple titles and even his narrow loss in 2016 have all made him stronger in my opinion.

Alonso teamed up with Button when he was 33. I don't think he was in any way diminished at that point. I do think that Hamilton has meshed with Mercedes a lot better than with mclaren in that they don't bother him about what he does in his private life. He certainly hasn't had a season like 2011 ever again.

But overall I think all this gossip is beneath Jenson. Kind of surprised to see him engaging in this kind of thing to be honest.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:11 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Interesting extract:

"I'd say that over the years Fernando had been one of - if not the - toughest competitors I'd faced, both as a team-mate and a rival at other teams," Button writes.

"Lewis was unbelievably quick and could pull a lap out of the bag just like that; him and Ayrton Senna were the two quickest guys over one lap, maybe ever.

"But Fernando was the more rounded driver. I'd know, even if I out-qualified him, that he'd still be tough to beat in a race.


I can see where he's coming from on that, although generally speaking I think that Alonso is vastly underrated as a qualifier.

I think that you either agree or you don't rather than adding caveats.

I think that's rubbish, frankly. Where's the rule that says you have to agree with someone 100% or not at all?

I think you either believe what he says or don't believe what he says, if you are just happy with things that conforms to what you think, then that just becomes your opinion and not Button's opinion.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:14 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
WHoff78 wrote:
Seems fairly accurate to me. I would add that I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso had lost a little edge on his ultimate pace by the time he teamed up with Button. And I don't think many would disagree that Hamilton has become a significantly improved all round package since his days with McLaren. Winning multiple titles and even his narrow loss in 2016 have all made him stronger in my opinion.

Alonso teamed up with Button when he was 33. I don't think he was in any way diminished at that point. I do think that Hamilton has meshed with Mercedes a lot better than with mclaren in that they don't bother him about what he does in his private life. He certainly hasn't had a season like 2011 ever again.

But overall I think all this gossip is beneath Jenson. Kind of surprised to see him engaging in this kind of thing to be honest.

Without reading his book it's hard to know how balanced it is, for instance does he highlight his own short comings?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:23 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Interesting extract:

"I'd say that over the years Fernando had been one of - if not the - toughest competitors I'd faced, both as a team-mate and a rival at other teams," Button writes.

"Lewis was unbelievably quick and could pull a lap out of the bag just like that; him and Ayrton Senna were the two quickest guys over one lap, maybe ever.

"But Fernando was the more rounded driver. I'd know, even if I out-qualified him, that he'd still be tough to beat in a race.


I can see where he's coming from on that, although generally speaking I think that Alonso is vastly underrated as a qualifier.

I think that you either agree or you don't rather than adding caveats.

I think that's rubbish, frankly. Where's the rule that says you have to agree with someone 100% or not at all?

I think you either believe what he says or don't believe what he says, if you are just happy with things that conforms to what you think, then that just becomes your opinion and not Button's opinion.

It's not a question of believing him (I see no reason why he wouldn't be telling the truth as he sees it), but rather of agreeing with his beliefs. And I would say I don't find much to argue against, but I'm not entirely convinced Alonso is a step behind in the qualifying department. Not ruling it out, but for instance he matched Hamilton when they were together, and he tends to dominate most other team mates, so it shouldn't surprise me if he was up there with the quickest qualifiers, too


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Interesting extract:

"I'd say that over the years Fernando had been one of - if not the - toughest competitors I'd faced, both as a team-mate and a rival at other teams," Button writes.

"Lewis was unbelievably quick and could pull a lap out of the bag just like that; him and Ayrton Senna were the two quickest guys over one lap, maybe ever.

"But Fernando was the more rounded driver. I'd know, even if I out-qualified him, that he'd still be tough to beat in a race.


I can see where he's coming from on that, although generally speaking I think that Alonso is vastly underrated as a qualifier.

I think that you either agree or you don't rather than adding caveats.

I think that's rubbish, frankly. Where's the rule that says you have to agree with someone 100% or not at all?

I think you either believe what he says or don't believe what he says, if you are just happy with things that conforms to what you think, then that just becomes your opinion and not Button's opinion.

It's not a question of believing him (I see no reason why he wouldn't be telling the truth as he sees it), but rather of agreeing with his beliefs. And I would say I don't find much to argue against, but I'm not entirely convinced Alonso is a step behind in the qualifying department. Not ruling it out, but for instance he matched Hamilton when they were together, and he tends to dominate most other team mates, so it shouldn't surprise me if he was up there with the quickest qualifiers, too

First of all although qualifying was reasonable close Alonso did not match Hamilton and let's not forget that Hamilton was a rookie.

He competed against Hamilton for 3 years and Alonso for 2 years yet you feel you are better qualified than Button to judge.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:01 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think that you either agree or you don't rather than adding caveats.

I think that's rubbish, frankly. Where's the rule that says you have to agree with someone 100% or not at all?

I think you either believe what he says or don't believe what he says, if you are just happy with things that conforms to what you think, then that just becomes your opinion and not Button's opinion.

It's not a question of believing him (I see no reason why he wouldn't be telling the truth as he sees it), but rather of agreeing with his beliefs. And I would say I don't find much to argue against, but I'm not entirely convinced Alonso is a step behind in the qualifying department. Not ruling it out, but for instance he matched Hamilton when they were together, and he tends to dominate most other team mates, so it shouldn't surprise me if he was up there with the quickest qualifiers, too

First of all although qualifying was reasonable close Alonso did not match Hamilton and let's not forget that Hamilton was a rookie.

He competed against Hamilton for 3 years and Alonso for 2 years yet you feel you are better qualified than Button to judge.

And we're back to the question why it's important to you that others shouldn't be allowed a different opinion?

What is it about my post that threatens you? The fact that I believe Alonso to be somewhat underrated in qualifying? Is this really such a big deal? If so, why?

Oh, and Alonso did match Hamilton in qualifying. The final result was 9-8, so they were pretty equal


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