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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:57 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
LBET wrote:
So Chris Horner is clearly one of those guys who, as a kid, could talk his mates into jumping off a bridge into the river. I just can't figure out how they are going to power Max's car? Certainly not with a Renny.

Verstappen believes he's had the fastest race car for the last 3 races.

That could be true, but it's also totally irrelevant to the point LBET is raising. The car's good now, but long term they have no idea what engine is going into it. Why would Max sign for 3 years when the last 2 of them will be with an unknown - and potentially terrible - engine in the car? He was already contracted for 2018, which looks like their best chance at a title on current form.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:40 pm 
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If the Red Bull was in the top 3 next year he would have been obligated to do 2019 too with whatever engine. This way by getting rid of this opt-out for him he's probably doubled his total contract salary at least by adding that extra year. If he had just one straight year left with no Red Bull option like Ricciardo I doubt he would have re-signed but this way he can get off his rookie salary just by doing one more year than he was expecting.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:04 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
But you've no idea what he tried. Or what plans Red Bull unfolded for him. You just keep making assumptions based on pure guesswork as far as I can see

He said he took the decision.

yeah, but you don't know what he "tried," or indeed what his motivations were. But you keep making statements about them as though you have an inside line to his thought processes. For all we know Red Bull may have something up their sleeve for next year which has convinced him that he has the plum seat. Or he could be chasing the money (although I maintain the figures being bandied about don't seem that earth-shaking). Or he could feel, as pointed out above, that without their special oil burning trick the others will drop back and be vulnerable. But you've made up your mind he's running scared and is chasing the money and are spreading it about as though it's a slam dunk. I honestly don't understand how you can draw the conclusions you do

I can only go by what he said were he seemed to be quite honest and straight forward, he's said before he's only interested in titles as opposed to just pure stats like poles and wins. The best way to go about this is to have the best car and the team supporting you as Red Bull said they would do which precludes having joint #1's.

maybe, but as pointed out before every driver would want that. It's just as likely that he feels Red Bull will be a good place to be since as you pointed out in this very thread he thinks he's had the best race car for the last three races now. So maybe he's not chasing the money but the title opportunity, which is after all what every driver should be doing.

Or maybe he's chasing the money. Point is there are a number of reasons for him doing what he has done and you can't draw any accurate conclusions from the information available to the public

He already had 2 years left so why extend it by 1 more year?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:08 am 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
LBET wrote:
So Chris Horner is clearly one of those guys who, as a kid, could talk his mates into jumping off a bridge into the river. I just can't figure out how they are going to power Max's car? Certainly not with a Renny.

Verstappen believes he's had the fastest race car for the last 3 races.

That could be true, but it's also totally irrelevant to the point LBET is raising. The car's good now, but long term they have no idea what engine is going into it. Why would Max sign for 3 years when the last 2 of them will be with an unknown - and potentially terrible - engine in the car? He was already contracted for 2018, which looks like their best chance at a title on current form.

It might have helped in his thinking but still like you say doesn't really make sense, however the much improved financial terms might have made more sense?

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2016: 4th Place

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:09 am 
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mas wrote:
If the Red Bull was in the top 3 next year he would have been obligated to do 2019 too with whatever engine. This way by getting rid of this opt-out for him he's probably doubled his total contract salary at least by adding that extra year. If he had just one straight year left with no Red Bull option like Ricciardo I doubt he would have re-signed but this way he can get off his rookie salary just by doing one more year than he was expecting.

Yep I made a case for it being financial as well.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:01 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
He said he took the decision.

yeah, but you don't know what he "tried," or indeed what his motivations were. But you keep making statements about them as though you have an inside line to his thought processes. For all we know Red Bull may have something up their sleeve for next year which has convinced him that he has the plum seat. Or he could be chasing the money (although I maintain the figures being bandied about don't seem that earth-shaking). Or he could feel, as pointed out above, that without their special oil burning trick the others will drop back and be vulnerable. But you've made up your mind he's running scared and is chasing the money and are spreading it about as though it's a slam dunk. I honestly don't understand how you can draw the conclusions you do

I can only go by what he said were he seemed to be quite honest and straight forward, he's said before he's only interested in titles as opposed to just pure stats like poles and wins. The best way to go about this is to have the best car and the team supporting you as Red Bull said they would do which precludes having joint #1's.

maybe, but as pointed out before every driver would want that. It's just as likely that he feels Red Bull will be a good place to be since as you pointed out in this very thread he thinks he's had the best race car for the last three races now. So maybe he's not chasing the money but the title opportunity, which is after all what every driver should be doing.

Or maybe he's chasing the money. Point is there are a number of reasons for him doing what he has done and you can't draw any accurate conclusions from the information available to the public

He already had 2 years left so why extend it by 1 more year?

Why indeed? You'd have to ask him. There a several possibilities but the bottom line is all you know is the end result and you have no idea what prior discussions there were, what they contained and with whom. So making pronouncements about his motivations or him not even trying and trying to pass them off as fact is just wrong.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Funny how some who decried anyone suggesting that Hamilton went to Mercedes for the money because their prospects didn't look great at the time are now the ones who say that Max extending at Red Bull of the money.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:52 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Funny how some who decried anyone suggesting that Hamilton went to Mercedes for the money because their prospects didn't look great at the time are now the ones who say that Max extending at Red Bull of the money.

I think he extended by 1 year for the money, unlike Hamilton he was already at Red Bull and still had 2 years left of his contract, Hamilton didn't get paid anymore for going to Mercedes anyway, he was already highly paid whilst Verstappen was on junior grade basically for 2018 and 2019.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:14 am 
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pokerman wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Funny how some who decried anyone suggesting that Hamilton went to Mercedes for the money because their prospects didn't look great at the time are now the ones who say that Max extending at Red Bull of the money.

I think he extended by 1 year for the money, unlike Hamilton he was already at Red Bull and still had 2 years left of his contract, Hamilton didn't get paid anymore for going to Mercedes anyway, he was already highly paid whilst Verstappen was on junior grade basically for 2018 and 2019.

Source to this information?

I was under the impression he had a pay increase at the time, and even now looking back at the reports indicate he did. According to crash net the increase was as much as EUR4m.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:26 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Funny how some who decried anyone suggesting that Hamilton went to Mercedes for the money because their prospects didn't look great at the time are now the ones who say that Max extending at Red Bull of the money.

I think he extended by 1 year for the money, unlike Hamilton he was already at Red Bull and still had 2 years left of his contract, Hamilton didn't get paid anymore for going to Mercedes anyway, he was already highly paid whilst Verstappen was on junior grade basically for 2018 and 2019.

Source to this information?

I was under the impression he had a pay increase at the time, and even now looking back at the reports indicate he did. According to crash net the increase was as much as EUR4m.

Maybe you missed the bit about McLaren matching the Mercedes offer in fact I believe it was said that McLaren even offered more.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place

Wins: Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: 2nd Canada 2015, 3rd Monza 2016, Hungary 2016 and Barcelona 2015


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