planetf1.com

It is currently Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:46 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23039
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fair enough, so we can rule out Ricciardo going to either Mercedes or Ferrari in 2019?

Now I'm confused. I thought this was about what Max said, not Ricciardo? :?

Verstappen said that neither Ferrari or Mercedes would want to sign a #1 driver to partner Vettel or Hamilton.


He doesn't, he says he doesn't think Seb or Lewis want him there. He says he thinks having two No.1's is difficult.

That might be true but going forward doesn't he think that Ricciardo is a #1 driver?

I'm not sure he even mentioned Ricciardo, did he? He was speaking for himself


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Now I'm confused. I thought this was about what Max said, not Ricciardo? :?

Verstappen said that neither Ferrari or Mercedes would want to sign a #1 driver to partner Vettel or Hamilton.


He doesn't, he says he doesn't think Seb or Lewis want him there. He says he thinks having two No.1's is difficult.

That might be true but going forward doesn't he think that Ricciardo is a #1 driver?

I'm not sure he even mentioned Ricciardo, did he? He was speaking for himself

He said that having 2 #1's in the same team is difficult.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4644
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I mean he's giving due respect to both Hamilton and Vettel.

He said that having two #1s doesn't work so I said what does that make Ricciardo then?

Going forward from this I find it a bit disappointing with Verstappen carrying on the mantra of tier 1 drivers avoiding one another.


By saying they don't want Max next to them and he doesn't want relegated to No.2 status?.

Maybe I'm interpreting what Max said wrongly but it reads to me like "I'd rather not go to Mercedes and Ferrari because Lewis and Seb are No.1's and I don't want to be a No.2. And I don't think they want me there anyway as two No.1 doesn't work like we saw in 2007".

He thinks the drivers wouldn't want him but do the drivers decide that?

What he says is actually confused because he says he doesn't want to be a #2 driver followed by two #1 driver's doesn't work.


Drivers wishes are listened to for sure, especially drivers who are happy with the status quo and are delivering success but I very much doubt either actually decide or have anything in their deals precluding Max or anyone else.

I'm guessing he believes he wont get a fair crack of the whip at either Mercedes or Ferrari for whatever reason but that's just my take on the comments. Translated comments are a tricky beast as a lot of nuance can be lost though and I think I'm in a minority that got that impression from those comments to be fair.

What I find interesting is that it's exactly the same words used by Horner, have Red Bull convinced Verstappen that would be the case?


Maybe. They were talking about building your own team etc not long ago.. so who knows.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4644
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Verstappen said that neither Ferrari or Mercedes would want to sign a #1 driver to partner Vettel or Hamilton.


He doesn't, he says he doesn't think Seb or Lewis want him there. He says he thinks having two No.1's is difficult.

That might be true but going forward doesn't he think that Ricciardo is a #1 driver?

I'm not sure he even mentioned Ricciardo, did he? He was speaking for himself

He said that having 2 #1's in the same team is difficult.


I'd guess he either doesn't rate Dan as highly or simply because he knows there have been no issues with Dan so far together that he doesn't think Dan will kick up as much fuss as either Seb or Lewis during a partnership.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
By saying they don't want Max next to them and he doesn't want relegated to No.2 status?.

Maybe I'm interpreting what Max said wrongly but it reads to me like "I'd rather not go to Mercedes and Ferrari because Lewis and Seb are No.1's and I don't want to be a No.2. And I don't think they want me there anyway as two No.1 doesn't work like we saw in 2007".

He thinks the drivers wouldn't want him but do the drivers decide that?

What he says is actually confused because he says he doesn't want to be a #2 driver followed by two #1 driver's doesn't work.


Drivers wishes are listened to for sure, especially drivers who are happy with the status quo and are delivering success but I very much doubt either actually decide or have anything in their deals precluding Max or anyone else.

I'm guessing he believes he wont get a fair crack of the whip at either Mercedes or Ferrari for whatever reason but that's just my take on the comments. Translated comments are a tricky beast as a lot of nuance can be lost though and I think I'm in a minority that got that impression from those comments to be fair.

What I find interesting is that it's exactly the same words used by Horner, have Red Bull convinced Verstappen that would be the case?


Maybe. They were talking about building your own team etc not long ago.. so who knows.

Which basically means not going up against the very best in F1 which I find a bit disappointing, going down the Schumacher path to glory.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
He doesn't, he says he doesn't think Seb or Lewis want him there. He says he thinks having two No.1's is difficult.

That might be true but going forward doesn't he think that Ricciardo is a #1 driver?

I'm not sure he even mentioned Ricciardo, did he? He was speaking for himself

He said that having 2 #1's in the same team is difficult.


I'd guess he either doesn't rate Dan as highly or simply because he knows there have been no issues with Dan so far together that he doesn't think Dan will kick up as much fuss as either Seb or Lewis during a partnership.

My take is that he knows he has the beating of Ricciardo, he does look the better driver.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4644
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
He thinks the drivers wouldn't want him but do the drivers decide that?

What he says is actually confused because he says he doesn't want to be a #2 driver followed by two #1 driver's doesn't work.


Drivers wishes are listened to for sure, especially drivers who are happy with the status quo and are delivering success but I very much doubt either actually decide or have anything in their deals precluding Max or anyone else.

I'm guessing he believes he wont get a fair crack of the whip at either Mercedes or Ferrari for whatever reason but that's just my take on the comments. Translated comments are a tricky beast as a lot of nuance can be lost though and I think I'm in a minority that got that impression from those comments to be fair.

What I find interesting is that it's exactly the same words used by Horner, have Red Bull convinced Verstappen that would be the case?


Maybe. They were talking about building your own team etc not long ago.. so who knows.

Which basically means not going up against the very best in F1 which I find a bit disappointing, going down the Schumacher path to glory.


You make it sound like it was his choice either or. And last time I checked Dan was one of the best in F1. Certainly a tougher team mate than either Lewis or Seb are facing and I bet you've enjoyed the Schumacher path to glory at least twice in your time watching F1.

Maybe he was just told privately by the bigwigs at Merc/Ferrari there was no room at the inn as long as Lewis and Seb were there so sticking with RB was the best play.

Who knows.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4644
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
That might be true but going forward doesn't he think that Ricciardo is a #1 driver?

I'm not sure he even mentioned Ricciardo, did he? He was speaking for himself

He said that having 2 #1's in the same team is difficult.


I'd guess he either doesn't rate Dan as highly or simply because he knows there have been no issues with Dan so far together that he doesn't think Dan will kick up as much fuss as either Seb or Lewis during a partnership.

My take is that he knows he has the beating of Ricciardo, he does look the better driver.


Could be. Could be the other.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Drivers wishes are listened to for sure, especially drivers who are happy with the status quo and are delivering success but I very much doubt either actually decide or have anything in their deals precluding Max or anyone else.

I'm guessing he believes he wont get a fair crack of the whip at either Mercedes or Ferrari for whatever reason but that's just my take on the comments. Translated comments are a tricky beast as a lot of nuance can be lost though and I think I'm in a minority that got that impression from those comments to be fair.

What I find interesting is that it's exactly the same words used by Horner, have Red Bull convinced Verstappen that would be the case?


Maybe. They were talking about building your own team etc not long ago.. so who knows.

Which basically means not going up against the very best in F1 which I find a bit disappointing, going down the Schumacher path to glory.


You make it sound like it was his choice either or. And last time I checked Dan was one of the best in F1. Certainly a tougher team mate than either Lewis or Seb are facing and I bet you've enjoyed the Schumacher path to glory at least twice in your time watching F1.

Maybe he was just told privately by the bigwigs at Merc/Ferrari there was no room at the inn as long as Lewis and Seb were there so sticking with RB was the best play.

Who knows.

One of the best, but ultimately the best?

Ricciardo said he would like to prove himself against Hamilton but that would have to be in Hamilton's prime so perhaps 2019 or never, whereas Verstappen just wants to win multitudes of titles like we saw with Schumacher.

If Ricciardo did go to Mercedes or Ferrari this no room at the inn would be a bit mute.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4644
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
What I find interesting is that it's exactly the same words used by Horner, have Red Bull convinced Verstappen that would be the case?


Maybe. They were talking about building your own team etc not long ago.. so who knows.

Which basically means not going up against the very best in F1 which I find a bit disappointing, going down the Schumacher path to glory.


You make it sound like it was his choice either or. And last time I checked Dan was one of the best in F1. Certainly a tougher team mate than either Lewis or Seb are facing and I bet you've enjoyed the Schumacher path to glory at least twice in your time watching F1.

Maybe he was just told privately by the bigwigs at Merc/Ferrari there was no room at the inn as long as Lewis and Seb were there so sticking with RB was the best play.

Who knows.

One of the best, but ultimately the best?

Ricciardo said he would like to prove himself against Hamilton but that would have to be in Hamilton's prime so perhaps 2019 or never, whereas Verstappen just wants to win multitudes of titles like we saw with Schumacher.

If Ricciardo did go to Mercedes or Ferrari this no room at the inn would be a bit mute.


He's one of the best but unless he clearly outperforms Max he's unlikely to be in the running for ultimate best I would have thought. Of the big 5 no-one else is partnering another member of the big 5 so they're both looking better than anyone else in any 'strength of team mate' argument or suggestions of wanting an easier ride in the team mate department.

I read that and that's the best fit I think. No idea why you're singling out Max there, its the goal for all the top 5 I would hope.

It was just an example but Dan isn't Max so not sure how it would be.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23039
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Verstappen said that neither Ferrari or Mercedes would want to sign a #1 driver to partner Vettel or Hamilton.


He doesn't, he says he doesn't think Seb or Lewis want him there. He says he thinks having two No.1's is difficult.

That might be true but going forward doesn't he think that Ricciardo is a #1 driver?

I'm not sure he even mentioned Ricciardo, did he? He was speaking for himself

He said that having 2 #1's in the same team is difficult.

He's positioning himself as the number one. After all, Horner said they were going to build the team around him, so if that's not #1, what is?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Maybe. They were talking about building your own team etc not long ago.. so who knows.

Which basically means not going up against the very best in F1 which I find a bit disappointing, going down the Schumacher path to glory.


You make it sound like it was his choice either or. And last time I checked Dan was one of the best in F1. Certainly a tougher team mate than either Lewis or Seb are facing and I bet you've enjoyed the Schumacher path to glory at least twice in your time watching F1.

Maybe he was just told privately by the bigwigs at Merc/Ferrari there was no room at the inn as long as Lewis and Seb were there so sticking with RB was the best play.

Who knows.

One of the best, but ultimately the best?

Ricciardo said he would like to prove himself against Hamilton but that would have to be in Hamilton's prime so perhaps 2019 or never, whereas Verstappen just wants to win multitudes of titles like we saw with Schumacher.

If Ricciardo did go to Mercedes or Ferrari this no room at the inn would be a bit mute.


He's one of the best but unless he clearly outperforms Max he's unlikely to be in the running for ultimate best I would have thought. Of the big 5 no-one else is partnering another member of the big 5 so they're both looking better than anyone else in any 'strength of team mate' argument or suggestions of wanting an easier ride in the team mate department.

I read that and that's the best fit I think. No idea why you're singling out Max there, its the goal for all the top 5 I would hope.

It was just an example but Dan isn't Max so not sure how it would be.

Like I said I'm a bit disappointed that Verstappen is going down that route especially after saying that he would do just as well in either the Mercedes or Ferrari, fighting talk.

Then later he says I will give that a miss because the goal is to win multiple titles and not test myself against the best.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
He doesn't, he says he doesn't think Seb or Lewis want him there. He says he thinks having two No.1's is difficult.

That might be true but going forward doesn't he think that Ricciardo is a #1 driver?

I'm not sure he even mentioned Ricciardo, did he? He was speaking for himself

He said that having 2 #1's in the same team is difficult.

He's positioning himself as the number one. After all, Horner said they were going to build the team around him, so if that's not #1, what is?

Well that's what I'm alluding to he's taking the Schumacher road to success avoiding the very best drivers, I know Ricciardo is good but I think that Verstappen knows he has the measure of him.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:39 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4644
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Which basically means not going up against the very best in F1 which I find a bit disappointing, going down the Schumacher path to glory.


You make it sound like it was his choice either or. And last time I checked Dan was one of the best in F1. Certainly a tougher team mate than either Lewis or Seb are facing and I bet you've enjoyed the Schumacher path to glory at least twice in your time watching F1.

Maybe he was just told privately by the bigwigs at Merc/Ferrari there was no room at the inn as long as Lewis and Seb were there so sticking with RB was the best play.

Who knows.

One of the best, but ultimately the best?

Ricciardo said he would like to prove himself against Hamilton but that would have to be in Hamilton's prime so perhaps 2019 or never, whereas Verstappen just wants to win multitudes of titles like we saw with Schumacher.

If Ricciardo did go to Mercedes or Ferrari this no room at the inn would be a bit mute.


He's one of the best but unless he clearly outperforms Max he's unlikely to be in the running for ultimate best I would have thought. Of the big 5 no-one else is partnering another member of the big 5 so they're both looking better than anyone else in any 'strength of team mate' argument or suggestions of wanting an easier ride in the team mate department.

I read that and that's the best fit I think. No idea why you're singling out Max there, its the goal for all the top 5 I would hope.

It was just an example but Dan isn't Max so not sure how it would be.

Like I said I'm a bit disappointed that Verstappen is going down that route especially after saying that he would do just as well in either the Mercedes or Ferrari, fighting talk.

Then later he says I will give that a miss because the goal is to win multiple titles and not test myself against the best.


You're still saying that like it was entirely his decision to go to either. He wasn't available until the 2020 season anyway and I'm pretty sure both Mercedes and Ferrari will be filled by then if they decide to go down the two top drivers route instead of what they've got currently. I think more likely we'll see Dan move to one of them for 2019 and the other will promote Ocon or Leclerc.

Where does he say that?. You seem to think his priorities are different to anyone else in F1. Name me one driver trying to go and fight the best instead of trying to win titles?

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23039
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
That might be true but going forward doesn't he think that Ricciardo is a #1 driver?

I'm not sure he even mentioned Ricciardo, did he? He was speaking for himself

He said that having 2 #1's in the same team is difficult.

He's positioning himself as the number one. After all, Horner said they were going to build the team around him, so if that's not #1, what is?

Well that's what I'm alluding to he's taking the Schumacher road to success avoiding the very best drivers, I know Ricciardo is good but I think that Verstappen knows he has the measure of him.

I don't think he is. He not saying he wouldn't want to join another top driver, but doubts they would want him to. There's a key difference. And every driver would love to have a team built around them. Every. Single. One.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 557
pokerman wrote:
Then later he says I will give that a miss because the goal is to win multiple titles and not test myself against the best.

What?Where did he say this :?
And there is a seat open in RB from 2020, and Lewis or Seb can join them. If they don't does that mean they want to win multiple titles and not test themselves against the best.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:53 pm
Posts: 47
Max just speaks about the chances of him going to a team that clearly have their number 1 driver. Hamilton at Mercedes, Vettel at Ferrari. The team does not want to risk that by bringing in Max.

Max doesn't care who is teammate is. He knows he will outperform them. Hamilton at the moment is the only guy where he can learn something from. Vettel is done in his opinion. You can clearly see it by the respect Hamilton gives to Max and visa versa.

And yes Max knows he is faster than Ricciardo.

You can call it arrogance but he just knows it. Is it arrogance if you know you are better and prove it time and time again?

Don't forget we only see a small part of their work. The Free practicd sessions, the qualifying and the race. There is a whole lot going on behind the scenes we don't know.

Horner said some long time ago that when Max got in the simulator he crushed the times of everybody they had in there. Vettel, Ricciardo ...

They know how good he is, they also know he still learns a lot and will get better at all aspects that F1 brings.

Ricciardo's learning curve is not that impressive anymore wich is not a bad thing. He is a very complete driver and should stay confident. Teams will be lucky to have him. But yes, I feel next year is not going to be so fun for Ricciardo when they have a new season and hopefully less mechanical failures. Max really learns fast and soaks in much much more than you would expect from someone his age.

To Red Bull he is the present and the future. Dieter talking about his biggest dream to win the title with Max. Marko's love affair with Max, Horner going wild. It's tough for Ricciardo.

Max also has a lot of fans, is a real racer like Hamilton and will only get better. He sells products with his name on it, is good at marketing himself, like to do new stuff and brings in a lot of cash at events where tickets are sold out. He speaks fluent German which is fantastic to be able to do in F1 especially in a team like Mercedes or Red Bull. He also gives amazing feedback to his engineers and knows about engines and cars himself. How it all works, where a problem could be. A lot of drivers don't know the tech stuff.

He stayed karting while he could go to cars. He became K1 karting champion at that young age beating the best. Most of those kart drivers beat F1 drivers because that is all they do.
The drivers complained Max won because he was a lightweight and the kart was lighter. They added weight and he still beat them.

He is very sure of himself and he delivers. He is the real deal. Not everybody will like him not but he doesn't care. The haters will be the biggest fans when the years go by.

I can understand why Red Bull want to keep him for the coming years.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:20 pm
Posts: 1804
pokerman wrote:
Like I said I'm a bit disappointed that Verstappen is going down that route especially after saying that he would do just as well in either the Mercedes or Ferrari, fighting talk.

Then later he says I will give that a miss because the goal is to win multiple titles and not test myself against the best.

I don't think the decision has been made by Verstappen. There is no reason for either Mercedes or Ferrari to beat down the door to sign him while they have Hamilton and Vettel respectively. I also think there is a level of drama that would come with Verstappen (see his father's tweeting after the race) that both teams could do without.

That baggage doesn't accompany Ricciardo which is why I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility for him to end up at either team.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
robins13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Then later he says I will give that a miss because the goal is to win multiple titles and not test myself against the best.

What?Where did he say this :?
And there is a seat open in RB from 2020, and Lewis or Seb can join them. If they don't does that mean they want to win multiple titles and not test themselves against the best.

Hamilton tried to join Red Bull alongside Vettel, he just wanted to be in the best car, I thought that Verstappen would be similar I was wrong.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I'm not sure he even mentioned Ricciardo, did he? He was speaking for himself

He said that having 2 #1's in the same team is difficult.

He's positioning himself as the number one. After all, Horner said they were going to build the team around him, so if that's not #1, what is?

Well that's what I'm alluding to he's taking the Schumacher road to success avoiding the very best drivers, I know Ricciardo is good but I think that Verstappen knows he has the measure of him.

I don't think he is. He not saying he wouldn't want to join another top driver, but doubts they would want him to. There's a key difference. And every driver would love to have a team built around them. Every. Single. One.

He didn't even try though, Hamilton will be 35 in 2020, at that kind of age a top team would start thinking about a future post Hamilton.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:41 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
Verstappen33 wrote:
Max just speaks about the chances of him going to a team that clearly have their number 1 driver. Hamilton at Mercedes, Vettel at Ferrari. The team does not want to risk that by bringing in Max.

Max doesn't care who is teammate is. He knows he will outperform them. Hamilton at the moment is the only guy where he can learn something from. Vettel is done in his opinion. You can clearly see it by the respect Hamilton gives to Max and visa versa.

And yes Max knows he is faster than Ricciardo.

You can call it arrogance but he just knows it. Is it arrogance if you know you are better and prove it time and time again?

Don't forget we only see a small part of their work. The Free practicd sessions, the qualifying and the race. There is a whole lot going on behind the scenes we don't know.

Horner said some long time ago that when Max got in the simulator he crushed the times of everybody they had in there. Vettel, Ricciardo ...

They know how good he is, they also know he still learns a lot and will get better at all aspects that F1 brings.

Ricciardo's learning curve is not that impressive anymore wich is not a bad thing. He is a very complete driver and should stay confident. Teams will be lucky to have him. But yes, I feel next year is not going to be so fun for Ricciardo when they have a new season and hopefully less mechanical failures. Max really learns fast and soaks in much much more than you would expect from someone his age.

To Red Bull he is the present and the future. Dieter talking about his biggest dream to win the title with Max. Marko's love affair with Max, Horner going wild. It's tough for Ricciardo.

Max also has a lot of fans, is a real racer like Hamilton and will only get better. He sells products with his name on it, is good at marketing himself, like to do new stuff and brings in a lot of cash at events where tickets are sold out. He speaks fluent German which is fantastic to be able to do in F1 especially in a team like Mercedes or Red Bull. He also gives amazing feedback to his engineers and knows about engines and cars himself. How it all works, where a problem could be. A lot of drivers don't know the tech stuff.

He stayed karting while he could go to cars. He became K1 karting champion at that young age beating the best. Most of those kart drivers beat F1 drivers because that is all they do.
The drivers complained Max won because he was a lightweight and the kart was lighter. They added weight and he still beat them.

He is very sure of himself and he delivers. He is the real deal. Not everybody will like him not but he doesn't care. The haters will be the biggest fans when the years go by.

I can understand why Red Bull want to keep him for the coming years.

Interesting post :thumbup:

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4644
pokerman wrote:
robins13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Then later he says I will give that a miss because the goal is to win multiple titles and not test myself against the best.

What?Where did he say this :?
And there is a seat open in RB from 2020, and Lewis or Seb can join them. If they don't does that mean they want to win multiple titles and not test themselves against the best.

Hamilton tried to join Red Bull alongside Vettel, he just wanted to be in the best car, I thought that Verstappen would be similar I was wrong.


Maybe he did try. But anyway he's under contract and Lewis wasn't.

Plus he could be sitting in the best car as early as next year. RB only lack right now in the oil burn maps(Q3 and peak power modes used sparingly in the race) which will be gone next year or at least greatly reduced. RB could be the plum seat for all we know right now.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
GingerFurball wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Like I said I'm a bit disappointed that Verstappen is going down that route especially after saying that he would do just as well in either the Mercedes or Ferrari, fighting talk.

Then later he says I will give that a miss because the goal is to win multiple titles and not test myself against the best.

I don't think the decision has been made by Verstappen. There is no reason for either Mercedes or Ferrari to beat down the door to sign him while they have Hamilton and Vettel respectively. I also think there is a level of drama that would come with Verstappen (see his father's tweeting after the race) that both teams could do without.

That baggage doesn't accompany Ricciardo which is why I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility for him to end up at either team.

If Verstappen gives Ricciardo a bit of a beating then that might well happen.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 1704
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
robins13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Then later he says I will give that a miss because the goal is to win multiple titles and not test myself against the best.

What?Where did he say this :?
And there is a seat open in RB from 2020, and Lewis or Seb can join them. If they don't does that mean they want to win multiple titles and not test themselves against the best.

Hamilton tried to join Red Bull alongside Vettel, he just wanted to be in the best car, I thought that Verstappen would be similar I was wrong.


Maybe he did try. But anyway he's under contract and Lewis wasn't.

Plus he could be sitting in the best car as early as next year. RB only lack right now in the oil burn maps(Q3 and peak power modes used sparingly in the race) which will be gone next year or at least greatly reduced. RB could be the plum seat for all we know right now.


I did already assume in my typical haste that 2018 and 2019 will very likely be Merc-Ferrari years, but I'm definitely seeing enough from Red Bull to close out the season to believe that we could be in for a few absolutely golden years in the sport. Now just dream for a moment that over those next two years McLaren and Renault also make themselves known. OK OK we can't have it all but a real three-way battle royale? Looking increasingly likely I'd say! Red Bull can continue their good work with fluency next year and as you've detailed a big trump card is to be taken largely away from Ferrari and especially Mercedes for next year.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
robins13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Then later he says I will give that a miss because the goal is to win multiple titles and not test myself against the best.

What?Where did he say this :?
And there is a seat open in RB from 2020, and Lewis or Seb can join them. If they don't does that mean they want to win multiple titles and not test themselves against the best.

Hamilton tried to join Red Bull alongside Vettel, he just wanted to be in the best car, I thought that Verstappen would be similar I was wrong.


Maybe he did try. But anyway he's under contract and Lewis wasn't.

Plus he could be sitting in the best car as early as next year. RB only lack right now in the oil burn maps(Q3 and peak power modes used sparingly in the race) which will be gone next year or at least greatly reduced. RB could be the plum seat for all we know right now.

I think when Hamilton approached Horner during the 2011 Canadian GP weekend he definitely was under contract.

It might, it might not, did Verstappen need to gamble?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23039
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
He said that having 2 #1's in the same team is difficult.

He's positioning himself as the number one. After all, Horner said they were going to build the team around him, so if that's not #1, what is?

Well that's what I'm alluding to he's taking the Schumacher road to success avoiding the very best drivers, I know Ricciardo is good but I think that Verstappen knows he has the measure of him.

I don't think he is. He not saying he wouldn't want to join another top driver, but doubts they would want him to. There's a key difference. And every driver would love to have a team built around them. Every. Single. One.

He didn't even try though, Hamilton will be 35 in 2020, at that kind of age a top team would start thinking about a future post Hamilton.

But you've no idea what he tried. Or what plans Red Bull unfolded for him. You just keep making assumptions based on pure guesswork as far as I can see


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
Invade wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
robins13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Then later he says I will give that a miss because the goal is to win multiple titles and not test myself against the best.

What?Where did he say this :?
And there is a seat open in RB from 2020, and Lewis or Seb can join them. If they don't does that mean they want to win multiple titles and not test themselves against the best.

Hamilton tried to join Red Bull alongside Vettel, he just wanted to be in the best car, I thought that Verstappen would be similar I was wrong.


Maybe he did try. But anyway he's under contract and Lewis wasn't.

Plus he could be sitting in the best car as early as next year. RB only lack right now in the oil burn maps(Q3 and peak power modes used sparingly in the race) which will be gone next year or at least greatly reduced. RB could be the plum seat for all we know right now.


I did already assume in my typical haste that 2018 and 2019 will very likely be Merc-Ferrari years, but I'm definitely seeing enough from Red Bull to close out the season to believe that we could be in for a few absolutely golden years in the sport. Now just dream for a moment that over those next two years McLaren and Renault also make themselves known. OK OK we can't have it all but a real three-way battle royale? Looking increasingly likely I'd say! Red Bull can continue their good work with fluency next year and as you've detailed a big trump card is to be taken largely away from Ferrari and especially Mercedes for next year.

If this indeed does happen maybe LM might not need to come up with convoluted ideas how to make F1 more exciting, competition is always better when it happens naturally rather than forced gimmicks.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Last edited by pokerman on Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
He's positioning himself as the number one. After all, Horner said they were going to build the team around him, so if that's not #1, what is?

Well that's what I'm alluding to he's taking the Schumacher road to success avoiding the very best drivers, I know Ricciardo is good but I think that Verstappen knows he has the measure of him.

I don't think he is. He not saying he wouldn't want to join another top driver, but doubts they would want him to. There's a key difference. And every driver would love to have a team built around them. Every. Single. One.

He didn't even try though, Hamilton will be 35 in 2020, at that kind of age a top team would start thinking about a future post Hamilton.

But you've no idea what he tried. Or what plans Red Bull unfolded for him. You just keep making assumptions based on pure guesswork as far as I can see

He said he took the decision.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 1704
Verstappen33 wrote:
Max just speaks about the chances of him going to a team that clearly have their number 1 driver. Hamilton at Mercedes, Vettel at Ferrari. The team does not want to risk that by bringing in Max.

Max doesn't care who is teammate is. He knows he will outperform them. Hamilton at the moment is the only guy where he can learn something from. Vettel is done in his opinion. You can clearly see it by the respect Hamilton gives to Max and visa versa.

And yes Max knows he is faster than Ricciardo.

You can call it arrogance but he just knows it. Is it arrogance if you know you are better and prove it time and time again?

Don't forget we only see a small part of their work. The Free practicd sessions, the qualifying and the race. There is a whole lot going on behind the scenes we don't know.

Horner said some long time ago that when Max got in the simulator he crushed the times of everybody they had in there. Vettel, Ricciardo ...

They know how good he is, they also know he still learns a lot and will get better at all aspects that F1 brings.

Ricciardo's learning curve is not that impressive anymore wich is not a bad thing. He is a very complete driver and should stay confident. Teams will be lucky to have him. But yes, I feel next year is not going to be so fun for Ricciardo when they have a new season and hopefully less mechanical failures. Max really learns fast and soaks in much much more than you would expect from someone his age.

To Red Bull he is the present and the future. Dieter talking about his biggest dream to win the title with Max. Marko's love affair with Max, Horner going wild. It's tough for Ricciardo.

Max also has a lot of fans, is a real racer like Hamilton and will only get better. He sells products with his name on it, is good at marketing himself, like to do new stuff and brings in a lot of cash at events where tickets are sold out. He speaks fluent German which is fantastic to be able to do in F1 especially in a team like Mercedes or Red Bull. He also gives amazing feedback to his engineers and knows about engines and cars himself. How it all works, where a problem could be. A lot of drivers don't know the tech stuff.

He stayed karting while he could go to cars. He became K1 karting champion at that young age beating the best. Most of those kart drivers beat F1 drivers because that is all they do.
The drivers complained Max won because he was a lightweight and the kart was lighter. They added weight and he still beat them.

He is very sure of himself and he delivers. He is the real deal. Not everybody will like him not but he doesn't care. The haters will be the biggest fans when the years go by.

I can understand why Red Bull want to keep him for the coming years.


Max is looking pretty special to me. I think he'll get a realistic shot next year of showing just how much he's grown and the ongoing intrateam battle will be very interesting to observe. Ricciardo has pretty much turned into my favourite driver on the grid but frankly I'm seeing him get outclassed by Verstappen in recent races. I can easily envisage a scenario where RB have the third best car next year but it's close as it has been for the last bunch of races and the driver could make just enough of a difference to sneak out the WDC.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23039
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well that's what I'm alluding to he's taking the Schumacher road to success avoiding the very best drivers, I know Ricciardo is good but I think that Verstappen knows he has the measure of him.

I don't think he is. He not saying he wouldn't want to join another top driver, but doubts they would want him to. There's a key difference. And every driver would love to have a team built around them. Every. Single. One.

He didn't even try though, Hamilton will be 35 in 2020, at that kind of age a top team would start thinking about a future post Hamilton.

But you've no idea what he tried. Or what plans Red Bull unfolded for him. You just keep making assumptions based on pure guesswork as far as I can see

He said he took the decision.

yeah, but you don't know what he "tried," or indeed what his motivations were. But you keep making statements about them as though you have an inside line to his thought processes. For all we know Red Bull may have something up their sleeve for next year which has convinced him that he has the plum seat. Or he could be chasing the money (although I maintain the figures being bandied about don't seem that earth-shaking). Or he could feel, as pointed out above, that without their special oil burning trick the others will drop back and be vulnerable. But you've made up your mind he's running scared and is chasing the money and are spreading it about as though it's a slam dunk. I honestly don't understand how you can draw the conclusions you do


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4644
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
robins13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Then later he says I will give that a miss because the goal is to win multiple titles and not test myself against the best.

What?Where did he say this :?
And there is a seat open in RB from 2020, and Lewis or Seb can join them. If they don't does that mean they want to win multiple titles and not test themselves against the best.

Hamilton tried to join Red Bull alongside Vettel, he just wanted to be in the best car, I thought that Verstappen would be similar I was wrong.


Maybe he did try. But anyway he's under contract and Lewis wasn't.

Plus he could be sitting in the best car as early as next year. RB only lack right now in the oil burn maps(Q3 and peak power modes used sparingly in the race) which will be gone next year or at least greatly reduced. RB could be the plum seat for all we know right now.

I think when Hamilton approached Horner during the 2011 Canadian GP weekend he definitely was under contract.

It might, it might not, did Verstappen need to gamble?


He was. And you know the Verstappens didn't quietly approach Mercedes and were also told no, how exactly?.

Either would be gambling at this point, we're not in 2014, but you're still pretending he had a choice between them and he could just go where he wanted.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4644
Invade wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
robins13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Then later he says I will give that a miss because the goal is to win multiple titles and not test myself against the best.

What?Where did he say this :?
And there is a seat open in RB from 2020, and Lewis or Seb can join them. If they don't does that mean they want to win multiple titles and not test themselves against the best.

Hamilton tried to join Red Bull alongside Vettel, he just wanted to be in the best car, I thought that Verstappen would be similar I was wrong.


Maybe he did try. But anyway he's under contract and Lewis wasn't.

Plus he could be sitting in the best car as early as next year. RB only lack right now in the oil burn maps(Q3 and peak power modes used sparingly in the race) which will be gone next year or at least greatly reduced. RB could be the plum seat for all we know right now.


I did already assume in my typical haste that 2018 and 2019 will very likely be Merc-Ferrari years, but I'm definitely seeing enough from Red Bull to close out the season to believe that we could be in for a few absolutely golden years in the sport. Now just dream for a moment that over those next two years McLaren and Renault also make themselves known. OK OK we can't have it all but a real three-way battle royale? Looking increasingly likely I'd say! Red Bull can continue their good work with fluency next year and as you've detailed a big trump card is to be taken largely away from Ferrari and especially Mercedes for next year.


Yeah I'm hopeful of at least RB being with Merc/Ferrari next year. Outside chance McLaren, their new front wing is getting rave reviews, and a slightly bigger outside chance of the works Renault getting involved although maybe that's a year too soon.

Genuinely think we may get a couple of awesome seasons coming up.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I don't think he is. He not saying he wouldn't want to join another top driver, but doubts they would want him to. There's a key difference. And every driver would love to have a team built around them. Every. Single. One.

He didn't even try though, Hamilton will be 35 in 2020, at that kind of age a top team would start thinking about a future post Hamilton.

But you've no idea what he tried. Or what plans Red Bull unfolded for him. You just keep making assumptions based on pure guesswork as far as I can see

He said he took the decision.

yeah, but you don't know what he "tried," or indeed what his motivations were. But you keep making statements about them as though you have an inside line to his thought processes. For all we know Red Bull may have something up their sleeve for next year which has convinced him that he has the plum seat. Or he could be chasing the money (although I maintain the figures being bandied about don't seem that earth-shaking). Or he could feel, as pointed out above, that without their special oil burning trick the others will drop back and be vulnerable. But you've made up your mind he's running scared and is chasing the money and are spreading it about as though it's a slam dunk. I honestly don't understand how you can draw the conclusions you do

I can only go by what he said were he seemed to be quite honest and straight forward, he's said before he's only interested in titles as opposed to just pure stats like poles and wins. The best way to go about this is to have the best car and the team supporting you as Red Bull said they would do which precludes having joint #1's.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
robins13 wrote:
What?Where did he say this :?
And there is a seat open in RB from 2020, and Lewis or Seb can join them. If they don't does that mean they want to win multiple titles and not test themselves against the best.

Hamilton tried to join Red Bull alongside Vettel, he just wanted to be in the best car, I thought that Verstappen would be similar I was wrong.


Maybe he did try. But anyway he's under contract and Lewis wasn't.

Plus he could be sitting in the best car as early as next year. RB only lack right now in the oil burn maps(Q3 and peak power modes used sparingly in the race) which will be gone next year or at least greatly reduced. RB could be the plum seat for all we know right now.

I think when Hamilton approached Horner during the 2011 Canadian GP weekend he definitely was under contract.

It might, it might not, did Verstappen need to gamble?


He was. And you know the Verstappens didn't quietly approach Mercedes and were also told no, how exactly?.

Either would be gambling at this point, we're not in 2014, but you're still pretending he had a choice between them and he could just go where he wanted.

That would explain Wolff being surprised by the news because Mercedes already said no?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4644
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Hamilton tried to join Red Bull alongside Vettel, he just wanted to be in the best car, I thought that Verstappen would be similar I was wrong.


Maybe he did try. But anyway he's under contract and Lewis wasn't.

Plus he could be sitting in the best car as early as next year. RB only lack right now in the oil burn maps(Q3 and peak power modes used sparingly in the race) which will be gone next year or at least greatly reduced. RB could be the plum seat for all we know right now.

I think when Hamilton approached Horner during the 2011 Canadian GP weekend he definitely was under contract.

It might, it might not, did Verstappen need to gamble?


He was. And you know the Verstappens didn't quietly approach Mercedes and were also told no, how exactly?.

Either would be gambling at this point, we're not in 2014, but you're still pretending he had a choice between them and he could just go where he wanted.

That would explain Wolff being surprised by the news because Mercedes already said no?


And why would that be mutually exclusive?. The news I assume Wolff was reacting to was the contract extension at Red Bull.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Maybe he did try. But anyway he's under contract and Lewis wasn't.

Plus he could be sitting in the best car as early as next year. RB only lack right now in the oil burn maps(Q3 and peak power modes used sparingly in the race) which will be gone next year or at least greatly reduced. RB could be the plum seat for all we know right now.

I think when Hamilton approached Horner during the 2011 Canadian GP weekend he definitely was under contract.

It might, it might not, did Verstappen need to gamble?


He was. And you know the Verstappens didn't quietly approach Mercedes and were also told no, how exactly?.

Either would be gambling at this point, we're not in 2014, but you're still pretending he had a choice between them and he could just go where he wanted.

That would explain Wolff being surprised by the news because Mercedes already said no?


And why would that be mutually exclusive?. The news I assume Wolff was reacting to was the contract extension at Red Bull.

Yep he was surprised at Verstappen taking himself off the market.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:38 pm
Posts: 290
So Chris Horner is clearly one of those guys who, as a kid, could talk his mates into jumping off a bridge into the river. I just can't figure out how they are going to power Max's car? Certainly not with a Renny.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 26442
LBET wrote:
So Chris Horner is clearly one of those guys who, as a kid, could talk his mates into jumping off a bridge into the river. I just can't figure out how they are going to power Max's car? Certainly not with a Renny.

Verstappen believes he's had the fastest race car for the last 3 races.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 4644
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think when Hamilton approached Horner during the 2011 Canadian GP weekend he definitely was under contract.

It might, it might not, did Verstappen need to gamble?


He was. And you know the Verstappens didn't quietly approach Mercedes and were also told no, how exactly?.

Either would be gambling at this point, we're not in 2014, but you're still pretending he had a choice between them and he could just go where he wanted.

That would explain Wolff being surprised by the news because Mercedes already said no?


And why would that be mutually exclusive?. The news I assume Wolff was reacting to was the contract extension at Red Bull.

Yep he was surprised at Verstappen taking himself off the market.


He said that?. Or was he surprised he extended, (assuming his surprise was genuine of course).

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23039
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
He didn't even try though, Hamilton will be 35 in 2020, at that kind of age a top team would start thinking about a future post Hamilton.

But you've no idea what he tried. Or what plans Red Bull unfolded for him. You just keep making assumptions based on pure guesswork as far as I can see

He said he took the decision.

yeah, but you don't know what he "tried," or indeed what his motivations were. But you keep making statements about them as though you have an inside line to his thought processes. For all we know Red Bull may have something up their sleeve for next year which has convinced him that he has the plum seat. Or he could be chasing the money (although I maintain the figures being bandied about don't seem that earth-shaking). Or he could feel, as pointed out above, that without their special oil burning trick the others will drop back and be vulnerable. But you've made up your mind he's running scared and is chasing the money and are spreading it about as though it's a slam dunk. I honestly don't understand how you can draw the conclusions you do

I can only go by what he said were he seemed to be quite honest and straight forward, he's said before he's only interested in titles as opposed to just pure stats like poles and wins. The best way to go about this is to have the best car and the team supporting you as Red Bull said they would do which precludes having joint #1's.

maybe, but as pointed out before every driver would want that. It's just as likely that he feels Red Bull will be a good place to be since as you pointed out in this very thread he thinks he's had the best race car for the last three races now. So maybe he's not chasing the money but the title opportunity, which is after all what every driver should be doing.

Or maybe he's chasing the money. Point is there are a number of reasons for him doing what he has done and you can't draw any accurate conclusions from the information available to the public


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 750k2, Google Adsense [Bot], Jezza13, Mort Canard and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group