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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Seems that Maurizio Arrivabene may be replaced in 2018 according to Eddie Jordan, to my mind I'm not really surprised with too many errors in the second half of this current season, currently only a rumour...unless anyone else knows different.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:51 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Seems that Maurizio Arrivabene may be replaced in 2018 according to Eddie Jordan, to my mind I'm not really surprised with too many errors in the second half of this current season, currently only a rumour...unless anyone else knows different.


Heads tend to roll with great frequency there, it was expected. As with most technical things, a consistent and settled team usually get the best results, so a poor start again next year.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:22 pm 
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not quite sure I understand this. They haven't made many errors at all and they've made possibly the biggest gains of any team from last season to this. Seems a bit knee-jerk to change things at this stage


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:48 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
not quite sure I understand this. They haven't made many errors at all and they've made possibly the biggest gains of any team from last season to this. Seems a bit knee-jerk to change things at this stage


It seems to be the QA thing of the last few races, and the collision.

Its no good saying it was not his fault, he was the boss and he gets grilled. Its Ferrari's way and always has been, except for a short period when Brawn and Todt was there.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:41 am 
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Are we putting the cart in front of the horse here?

Just because Eddie Jordan says it may happen doesn't guarantee that it will. He has been wrong before.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:33 am 
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This is coming from Eddie "I hate Ferrari" Jordan who will throw pathetic jabs whenever he gets the chance.
I'll believe it when I see it.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:03 am 
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Zoue wrote:
not quite sure I understand this. They haven't made many errors at all and they've made possibly the biggest gains of any team from last season to this. Seems a bit knee-jerk to change things at this stage


I did say the second part of the season, so I would have thought that spark plugs, inlet manifold quality issues and Vettel repeatedly being involved in controversial incidents would indicate mistakes in management. They seem to be the only team to have these issues currently when you would have thought at this stage of the season they would have been bedded in.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:25 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Zoue wrote:
not quite sure I understand this. They haven't made many errors at all and they've made possibly the biggest gains of any team from last season to this. Seems a bit knee-jerk to change things at this stage


I did say the second part of the season, so I would have thought that spark plugs, inlet manifold quality issues and Vettel repeatedly being involved in controversial incidents would indicate mistakes in management. They seem to be the only team to have these issues currently when you would have thought at this stage of the season they would have been bedded in.

I don't know how a faulty spark plug can be the fault of management. If it was a succession of bad plugs and they weren't rectified, maybe, but an isolated incident?

The only controversial incident Vettel has been involved in was Baku. Again, not sure how management may share the blame for that. Not sure how endemic the inlet manifold issues were, so can't judge that one.

When you look at the pros and cons column, I think the former is ticked way more this year, especially when you see how far Ferrari have come since last year. But I guess that's why I'm not the CEO of a global company!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:41 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Zoue wrote:
not quite sure I understand this. They haven't made many errors at all and they've made possibly the biggest gains of any team from last season to this. Seems a bit knee-jerk to change things at this stage


I did say the second part of the season, so I would have thought that spark plugs, inlet manifold quality issues and Vettel repeatedly being involved in controversial incidents would indicate mistakes in management. They seem to be the only team to have these issues currently when you would have thought at this stage of the season they would have been bedded in.

I don't know how a faulty spark plug can be the fault of management. If it was a succession of bad plugs and they weren't rectified, maybe, but an isolated incident?

The only controversial incident Vettel has been involved in was Baku. Again, not sure how management may share the blame for that. Not sure how endemic the inlet manifold issues were, so can't judge that one.

When you look at the pros and cons column, I think the former is ticked way more this year, especially when you see how far Ferrari have come since last year. But I guess that's why I'm not the CEO of a global company!


Don't really agree management is about getting the basics in place, bad plugs, bad manifolds seems to be about procurement, management surely?

Not sure that Vettel is controlled that much at Ferrari he seems to do as he wishes. Controversial, wasn't the wind down bump a bit odd?

Anyway, Ferrari must be unhappy about something otherwise this rumour of EJ's wouldn't be out there would it?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:42 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Zoue wrote:
not quite sure I understand this. They haven't made many errors at all and they've made possibly the biggest gains of any team from last season to this. Seems a bit knee-jerk to change things at this stage


I did say the second part of the season, so I would have thought that spark plugs, inlet manifold quality issues and Vettel repeatedly being involved in controversial incidents would indicate mistakes in management. They seem to be the only team to have these issues currently when you would have thought at this stage of the season they would have been bedded in.

I don't know how a faulty spark plug can be the fault of management. If it was a succession of bad plugs and they weren't rectified, maybe, but an isolated incident?

The only controversial incident Vettel has been involved in was Baku. Again, not sure how management may share the blame for that. Not sure how endemic the inlet manifold issues were, so can't judge that one.

When you look at the pros and cons column, I think the former is ticked way more this year, especially when you see how far Ferrari have come since last year. But I guess that's why I'm not the CEO of a global company!



They did not say it was his FAULT they said he was having the BLAME :twisted:


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:49 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Zoue wrote:
not quite sure I understand this. They haven't made many errors at all and they've made possibly the biggest gains of any team from last season to this. Seems a bit knee-jerk to change things at this stage


I did say the second part of the season, so I would have thought that spark plugs, inlet manifold quality issues and Vettel repeatedly being involved in controversial incidents would indicate mistakes in management. They seem to be the only team to have these issues currently when you would have thought at this stage of the season they would have been bedded in.

I don't know how a faulty spark plug can be the fault of management. If it was a succession of bad plugs and they weren't rectified, maybe, but an isolated incident?

The only controversial incident Vettel has been involved in was Baku. Again, not sure how management may share the blame for that. Not sure how endemic the inlet manifold issues were, so can't judge that one.

When you look at the pros and cons column, I think the former is ticked way more this year, especially when you see how far Ferrari have come since last year. But I guess that's why I'm not the CEO of a global company!


Don't really agree management is about getting the basics in place, bad plugs, bad manifolds seems to be about procurement, management surely?

Not sure that Vettel is controlled that much at Ferrari he seems to do as he wishes. Controversial, wasn't the wind down bump a bit odd?

Anyway, Ferrari must be unhappy about something otherwise this rumour of EJ's wouldn't be out there would it?

A bad plug is just unfortunate - Lewis had a simple band fail in the first race of 2014 but I don't recall people pointing fingers at Toto. Parts can and do fail sometimes but I think it's excessive to apportion blame to the man running the company. I can't remember the full back story of the manifolds so can't comment either way on it. But to my mind it's on how management deals with issues that they should be judged, not on whether those issues happen at all. And I don't recall the spark plug failure being repeated, while IIRC they brought in a new QA chief pretty damn quick?

Fair enough Vettel's slow down incident could be said to be controversial. I'd forgotten about that. But it didn't affect either Championship and I'm still unclear why that"s Arrivabene's fault.

Agree that Ferrari may well be unhappy. I'm not disputing the story, just getting the feeling that if true there's a degree of overreacting going on and the reasoning is questionable


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Zoue wrote:
not quite sure I understand this. They haven't made many errors at all and they've made possibly the biggest gains of any team from last season to this. Seems a bit knee-jerk to change things at this stage


I did say the second part of the season, so I would have thought that spark plugs, inlet manifold quality issues and Vettel repeatedly being involved in controversial incidents would indicate mistakes in management. They seem to be the only team to have these issues currently when you would have thought at this stage of the season they would have been bedded in.

I don't know how a faulty spark plug can be the fault of management. If it was a succession of bad plugs and they weren't rectified, maybe, but an isolated incident?

The only controversial incident Vettel has been involved in was Baku. Again, not sure how management may share the blame for that. Not sure how endemic the inlet manifold issues were, so can't judge that one.

When you look at the pros and cons column, I think the former is ticked way more this year, especially when you see how far Ferrari have come since last year. But I guess that's why I'm not the CEO of a global company!


Don't really agree management is about getting the basics in place, bad plugs, bad manifolds seems to be about procurement, management surely?

Not sure that Vettel is controlled that much at Ferrari he seems to do as he wishes. Controversial, wasn't the wind down bump a bit odd?

Anyway, Ferrari must be unhappy about something otherwise this rumour of EJ's wouldn't be out there would it?

A bad plug is just unfortunate - Lewis had a simple band fail in the first race of 2014 but I don't recall people pointing fingers at Toto. Parts can and do fail sometimes but I think it's excessive to apportion blame to the man running the company. I can't remember the full back story of the manifolds so can't comment either way on it. But to my mind it's on how management deals with issues that they should be judged, not on whether those issues happen at all. And I don't recall the spark plug failure being repeated, while IIRC they brought in a new QA chief pretty damn quick?

Fair enough Vettel's slow down incident could be said to be controversial. I'd forgotten about that. But it didn't affect either Championship and I'm still unclear why that"s Arrivabene's fault.

Agree that Ferrari may well be unhappy. I'm not disputing the story, just getting the feeling that if true there's a degree of overreacting going on and the reasoning is questionable


Lewis had a plug fail in the same race, but it was detected in the warm up. These things happen, but it seems a Ferrari trait to want revenge. Apparently he is not being 'sacked' put pushed up stares


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:36 pm 
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I have yet to find anything supporting Jordan's claim. Why is that? Do we really think that only Eddie Jordan has inside information on the inner workings at Ferrari. What he is saying may indeed happen, but I will worry about it when and IF.
:nod:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:06 am 
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If it does happen, it will be highly unfair on Arrivabene.

They have had terrible bad luck and 2 QC issues in 2 successive races. Cant really fault TP for that. The team has made impressive gains and are on right track. This year, it was always going to be difficult to overcome huge performance margin Mercedes had enjoyed for 3 years. They have come very close in the era of extreme down-force and power.

The bad luck and incidents they have had were totally out of control of the management.

Frankly hardly anyone is fan of Arrivabene, but must admit the team did really well in last one year under him. Its never enough for Ferrari if they are not winning championships, but its time to build on the good people they have. I dont see how another top management change will help the team at this point.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:37 pm 
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When things go wrong at Ferrari, yes, the knives come out and careers are sacrificed in order for the parent company to save face. Personally, I have no doubt that eventually Arrivabene will be the scapegoat. But is it too soon? We must measure Ferrari's expectations and whether he has done his job (for now).

He did take the race team that was in complete tatters, and was able to battle for the WDC. And one must admit, the team seems more stable that in previous years. But the team did fall short, and the question was the shortfall a result of just random parts failures, or was it my systemic, something Arrivabene was responsible for?

IMO for now Arrivabene is doing a good enough job to keep it. But expectations for 2018 are now high, and anything less than a respectable run for a title will cost Arrivabene his job.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:22 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Are we putting the cart in front of the horse here?

Just because Eddie Jordan says it may happen doesn't guarantee that it will. He has been wrong before.


He has, but there was speculatiojn before the weekend it seems:

https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/ferrari/news/binotto-to-replace-arrivabene-as-ferrari-boss_310039.html


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