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Rows of three cars on the starting grid - good or bad?
Good 20%  20%  [ 10 ]
Could be good 16%  16%  [ 8 ]
It's dangerous but good 14%  14%  [ 7 ]
Doubtful that it is good 18%  18%  [ 9 ]
Not looking good 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Bad 28%  28%  [ 14 ]
Total votes : 50
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:00 am 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
for the people on the "devalue pole" issue... pole position only exists out of necessity remember. And although it might be considered the fairest option available as we can't start the cars line-astern, it's pretty counter-productive to any wish to create a good 'race'. Start by giving the best guys a head-start? ....


Hi Dolomite, you have a point, but equally, would you rather disadvantage someone for being better? Remember, they are in pole position because they fought hard for it, they didn't just stroll in and parked their car there. They do not appoint the grid positions, they fight it on the track. Whoever has done a better job, reaps the spoils.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:44 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
for the people on the "devalue pole" issue... pole position only exists out of necessity remember. And although it might be considered the fairest option available as we can't start the cars line-astern, it's pretty counter-productive to any wish to create a good 'race'. Start by giving the best guys a head-start? ....


Hi Dolomite, you have a point, but equally, would you rather disadvantage someone for being better? Remember, they are in pole position because they fought hard for it, they didn't just stroll in and parked their car there. They do not appoint the grid positions, they fight it on the track. Whoever has done a better job, reaps the spoils.


They are still on the pole, Siao. They would still have the advantageous line. Personally, I have never understood why F1 has used a staggered start anyway. I thought two cars side-by-side would have made better sense.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
for the people on the "devalue pole" issue... pole position only exists out of necessity remember. And although it might be considered the fairest option available as we can't start the cars line-astern, it's pretty counter-productive to any wish to create a good 'race'. Start by giving the best guys a head-start? ....


Hi Dolomite, you have a point, but equally, would you rather disadvantage someone for being better? Remember, they are in pole position because they fought hard for it, they didn't just stroll in and parked their car there. They do not appoint the grid positions, they fight it on the track. Whoever has done a better job, reaps the spoils.


They are still on the pole, Siao. They would still have the advantageous line. Personally, I have never understood why F1 has used a staggered start anyway. I thought two cars side-by-side would have made better sense.


Sorry Blake, I'm not following. They have the advantageous line (most times), yes. So, what?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:29 pm 
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Saio, I guess what I am saying is how much more advantage does the fastest car on the grid need than to be on the front row with what would be the best line into the first turn? With the current staggered starts, the pole winner not only gets the most advantageous line, but also a significant "head start" by virtue of being further up the track.

Personally, I am not convinced that a three car front row on most F1 tracks is ideal, but firmly believe that side by side rows of two would be good for the sport and more fair.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:16 am 
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Blake wrote:
Saio, I guess what I am saying is how much more advantage does the fastest car on the grid need than to be on the front row with what would be the best line into the first turn? With the current staggered starts, the pole winner not only gets the most advantageous line, but also a significant "head start" by virtue of being further up the track.

Personally, I am not convinced that a three car front row on most F1 tracks is ideal, but firmly believe that side by side rows of two would be good for the sport and more fair.

Ok, I understand. Well the pole was not always the preferred line, sometimes it is on the dirty side and sometimes it is on the outside of a braking corner. Senna may have made a point about that in 1990!

I also like the side by side idea, it would make it more interesting, a dead heat to the first corner


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:12 am 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Times have changes since the '60s when cars started abreast. Back then, drivers sat with their shoulders above the cockpit, between two, unprotected fuel tanks. Some had just barely begun using belts, and it wasn't until Dan Gurney that drivers started wearing full face helmets. In short, one could easily get killed at the start, so drivers knew the importance of keeping apart.

Today's bumper cars encourage all manner of scraps at the start, because the drivers are well protected and feel all but invincible. This selfish driver syndrome factor cannot be measured in a racing sim.


This is true, but I doubt there is a driver that would want to risk ending his race or get a penalty because he played bumper cars. The danger of getting hurt is lower than ever before, but they are there to finish the race, not to play demolition derby.


Two words... Singapore, 2017

Think about Monaco... too many examples to cite.
I'm a bit surprised by the references to Singapore. Those cars were stacked at the start.

And part of the reason why Verstappen kept his foot in, was that he had said before the start that Vettel had everything to lose, so would have to be more careful than he. Which simply meant Verstappen himself forgot that Vettel had to win, and blocking him off was simply something Vettel "had" to do.

Simply pointing to Singapore doesn't make a good case for stacking the cars in the first place, and it doesn't make a good one for drivers playing the long game either.

It would be interesting to know the reasons why F1 went to stacked grids with massive distances between the cars all those years ago. But as things stand, and provided race control and the stewards are prepared to throw the book at drivers who seem to have reading difficulties, I think reverting to line abreast grids might well solve the problem of races being over past turn 1 on lap 1.

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