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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:14 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
Invade wrote:
Vettel and Verstappen destroyed their team-mates. The cars looked very balanced around the track. Mercedes showed excellent pace during long runs in practice so I think we'll have a three-way battle for the win.


Kimi is such a non factor.


Ferrari doesn't think so.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:16 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
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Absurd to even investigate it. Verstappen has to be somewhere.

It's backing off from the flying lap that might be a problem to be investigated but I think he will be alright.


I pretty sure you're allowed to back off a flying lap if you want to.... I've never heard of that being a problem before. He had backed off way before Bottas caught him. It's not unusual.

Bottas would not have seen him before he came around the corner but like I say not an obvious block.


Yeah it's unfortunate but Verstappen did actually get out of Bottas' way. He didn't impede him. A Verstappen penalty here will be a Monza 06 moment.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:17 pm 
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Invade wrote:
Vettel and Verstappen destroyed their team-mates. The cars looked very balanced around the track. Mercedes showed excellent pace during long runs in practice so I think we'll have a three-way battle for the win.

Max is running a newer, more powerful upgraded engine, whereas Ricciardo is running a previous generation power unit coming to the end of its life. Ricciardo was never going to be close to Max.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:17 pm 
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BTW is it just me or do Ferrari only up the engine to max for the second runs in the Q3 and their first runs are maybe at a lower mode? I can't recall well but don't their drivers often improve their first Q3 runs by tenths in the second run?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:18 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Invade wrote:
Vettel and Verstappen destroyed their team-mates. The cars looked very balanced around the track. Mercedes showed excellent pace during long runs in practice so I think we'll have a three-way battle for the win.

Max is running a newer, more powerful upgraded engine, whereas Ricciardo is running a previous generation power unit coming to the end of its life. Ricciardo was never going to be close to Max.



How many tenths do you think it was worth in qualifying today?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:19 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Invade wrote:
Vettel and Verstappen destroyed their team-mates. The cars looked very balanced around the track. Mercedes showed excellent pace during long runs in practice so I think we'll have a three-way battle for the win.


Kimi is such a non factor.


Ferrari doesn't think so.



Herb just has a misguided love for Kimi. He gets so sad when Kimi does not get pole that he cant contain his frustration!

Its always good to wait for what the drivers have to say post qualy, there might have some issues we don't yet know.

That said regardless of engine spec, I did not expected RIC to beat MAX this weekend, Max has been on it lately, will not be at all surprised if he wins tomorrow.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Vettel was superb today. Max was also very good but his final run was disappointing.

Hamilton and Bottas were OK. Not bad but nothing special.

Ricciardo and Raikkonen just terrible.

It doesn't hurt Kimi at this point, but Daniel's reputation is at serious risk here if he doesn't improve.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:21 pm 
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Invade wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Invade wrote:
Vettel and Verstappen destroyed their team-mates. The cars looked very balanced around the track. Mercedes showed excellent pace during long runs in practice so I think we'll have a three-way battle for the win.

Max is running a newer, more powerful upgraded engine, whereas Ricciardo is running a previous generation power unit coming to the end of its life. Ricciardo was never going to be close to Max.



How many tenths do you think it was worth in qualifying today?

Verstappen would still have beaten Ricciardo in equal equipment, he just wouldn't have "destroyed" him.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:22 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Absurd to even investigate it. Verstappen has to be somewhere.

:thumbup: he put himself off the racing line and slowed so he wouldn’t interfere at the next corner. He couldn’t have done any more and it’s not his fault if Bottas locked up.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:23 pm 
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OCO ahead of PER on home soil.............there is a new boss in town at FI


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:24 pm 
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Ricc is now basically admitting he couldn't be on it in qualifying as he had no grip. Not a good day for him.

Not sure who did better out of Vettel and Verstappen as I'm not sure who had the better car. Merc were average.

Ricc felt "helpless" in that qualifying.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Invade wrote:
BTW is it just me or do Ferrari only up the engine to max for the second runs in the Q3 and their first runs are maybe at a lower mode? I can't recall well but don't their drivers often improve their first Q3 runs by tenths in the second run?


Yes! :thumbup:
Vettel pulled the same trick in Austin on his last run, same for Raikkonen.
It seems they have only one but powerful boost that they use in their second run in Q3.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:27 pm 
Invade wrote:
BTW is it just me or do Ferrari only up the engine to max for the second runs in the Q3 and their first runs are maybe at a lower mode? I can't recall well but don't their drivers often improve their first Q3 runs by tenths in the second run?


Yes this appears to be the case, I crunched the numbers on this when we were discussing what Kimi might have done in his 2nd run at Spa this year, up until that point Vettel had gone quicker on his 2nd Q3 run 11/12 races. Kimi was 10/12 (both errors) its a pattern that has continued. The usual gain is at least 0.2-0.3


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:28 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Vettel was superb today. Max was also very good but his final run was disappointing.

Hamilton and Bottas were OK. Not bad but nothing special.

Ricciardo and Raikkonen just terrible.

It doesn't hurt Kimi at this point, but Daniel's reputation is at serious risk here if he doesn't improve.

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Max is running a newer, more powerful upgraded engine, whereas Ricciardo is running a previous generation power unit coming to the end of its life. Ricciardo was never going to be close to Max.


@ king void

^^^^^^ this, max cant be compared to riccardo due to unequal equipment. They arent going to be close for the rest of the year.

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Last edited by Mayhem on Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:28 pm 
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Let's hope that Renault don't take a step backward or even stand still over the winter with their PU. With a near equal PU in the McLaren and RB cars next year could be a hell of a season.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:28 pm 
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Pullrod wrote:
Invade wrote:
BTW is it just me or do Ferrari only up the engine to max for the second runs in the Q3 and their first runs are maybe at a lower mode? I can't recall well but don't their drivers often improve their first Q3 runs by tenths in the second run?


Yes! :thumbup:
Vettel pulled the same trick in Austin on his last run, same for Raikkonen.
It seems they have only one but powerful boost that they use in their second run in Q3.


Seems that MB has the same tricks - this time MB didn't turn it up enough.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:31 pm 
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mmi16 wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Invade wrote:
BTW is it just me or do Ferrari only up the engine to max for the second runs in the Q3 and their first runs are maybe at a lower mode? I can't recall well but don't their drivers often improve their first Q3 runs by tenths in the second run?


Yes! :thumbup:
Vettel pulled the same trick in Austin on his last run, same for Raikkonen.
It seems they have only one but powerful boost that they use in their second run in Q3.


Seems that MB has the same tricks - this time MB didn't turn it up enough.

Nobody denied Mercedes has a Q3 mode. It is just that Ferrari improves "massively" on their second run in Q3 unlike Mercedes. Do you remember Austin? Singapore?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:32 pm 
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mmi16 wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Invade wrote:
BTW is it just me or do Ferrari only up the engine to max for the second runs in the Q3 and their first runs are maybe at a lower mode? I can't recall well but don't their drivers often improve their first Q3 runs by tenths in the second run?


Yes! :thumbup:
Vettel pulled the same trick in Austin on his last run, same for Raikkonen.
It seems they have only one but powerful boost that they use in their second run in Q3.


Seems that MB has the same tricks - this time MB didn't turn it up enough.



On the contrary I often notice that Mercedes often don't improve or if they do not by much in second Q3 runs, meaning they use their super engine mode for the whole of Q3 rather than the final run.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:39 pm 
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Which is more gutting. Being beaten by your competitor who then wins the championship, or have him cruse home behind you, then still win the championship?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:39 pm 
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So how much power does that new renault engine have? Jeez


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:40 pm 
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Holy cow alonso!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
So there's an engine difference between the Macca boys again as Stoff has gone back to 3.7 and Alonso still has his new 3.8(For the time being).

No word on front wing yet.


I was wrong here. Alonso reverted to 3.7 spec this morning to save 3.8 for Brazil and AD so no difference in engine hardware.

However still not clear on aero and suspension as Alonso has said McLaren brought new floor(Alo Malaysia,both in Jpn),front wing (Alo US, Unsure here but looks like Alo for sure) winglets (???) and new suspension (???) recently and is saying they had the best car here.

I had no idea about the suspension change so unclear who's got what at this stage. I think it's only the font wing Stoff doesn't have as that was the only one they all talked about in Austin in regards to parity (Stoff,Alo,EB and ZB) but they didn't know if they'd get two out here in time for Mexico.

Should find out in either the qualy or race report.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:00 pm 
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Shamelessly lifted from AS and "Quickshifter"...

Alonso:-

"The engine is the same," he said. "In fact, today we have the previous engine. Yesterday we used the new engine but saved it for Brazil and Abu Dhabi.

"So all the improvements are thanks to the aero and a bit to the suspension parts we've brought over the past races. As of today, or at least today, we have the best car."

"The car was handling incredible," he added. "In the corners it has very good grip and it allows you to drive instinctively and easily. A spectacular weekend up until now.

"Today, for the first time in three years, we can be pretty sure that we had the best car on track."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alon ... ng-971975/

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:01 pm 
It seems the biggest gaps between team mates we have seen all season... 0.7+ on such a short lap between the Ferrari, Red Bull, Mclaren and Williams pairs. Around 0.4 between the Renault and FI drivers.

Also Hamilton going from his 0.5 average post summer break down to nothing.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:04 pm 
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Invade wrote:
mmi16 wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
Invade wrote:
BTW is it just me or do Ferrari only up the engine to max for the second runs in the Q3 and their first runs are maybe at a lower mode? I can't recall well but don't their drivers often improve their first Q3 runs by tenths in the second run?


Yes! :thumbup:
Vettel pulled the same trick in Austin on his last run, same for Raikkonen.
It seems they have only one but powerful boost that they use in their second run in Q3.


Seems that MB has the same tricks - this time MB didn't turn it up enough.



On the contrary I often notice that Mercedes often don't improve or if they do not by much in second Q3 runs, meaning they use their super engine mode for the whole of Q3 rather than the final run.

Yes, I'm sure I read that Mercedes' high power mode is much more efficient and they can use it longer and more often, while Ferrari have to be very cautious as to when they use theirs as it's a bit of an all or nothing deal


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:30 pm 
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Once the talk about Ric to Merc heated up, his or the cars performanced dropped. Not a coincidence, I am not surprised. What is rather annoying is lots of people saying Max would have out qualified Dan regardless (if the had same spec and wasnt talk of move to merc). I believe Max was beaten in quali last weekend. People quick to forget and love a chance to blow bubbles up Max's ... and the #1 in the team. Or did they forget that too.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:36 pm 
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red_alert wrote:
Once the talk about Ric to Merc heated up, his or the cars performanced dropped. Not a coincidence, I am not surprised. What is rather annoying is lots of people saying Max would have out qualified Dan regardless (if the had same spec and wasnt talk of move to merc). I believe Max was beaten in quali last weekend. People quick to forget and love a chance to blow bubbles up Max's ... and the #1 in the team. Or did they forget that too.



Ricc complained about having no grip and not having a good day. He wasn't on it himself with setup.

Max was beaten by Ricc in quali the last two race weekends IIRC BTW but this is this week and last week was last week.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:44 pm 
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Very unusual session for Ricciardo, he was fastest on Friday.

Hope RB get to the bottom of that quickly.

Going to be an interesting first lap.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:51 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Shamelessly lifted from AS and "Quickshifter"...

Alonso:-

"The engine is the same," he said. "In fact, today we have the previous engine. Yesterday we used the new engine but saved it for Brazil and Abu Dhabi.

"So all the improvements are thanks to the aero and a bit to the suspension parts we've brought over the past races. As of today, or at least today, we have the best car."

"The car was handling incredible," he added. "In the corners it has very good grip and it allows you to drive instinctively and easily. A spectacular weekend up until now.

"Today, for the first time in three years, we can be pretty sure that we had the best car on track."


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alon ... ng-971975/


Oh well we best see a Ham-Vet-Max-Alo battle next season then otherwise I'll want my reading time back!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:00 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Shamelessly lifted from AS and "Quickshifter"...

Alonso:-

"The engine is the same," he said. "In fact, today we have the previous engine. Yesterday we used the new engine but saved it for Brazil and Abu Dhabi.

"So all the improvements are thanks to the aero and a bit to the suspension parts we've brought over the past races. As of today, or at least today, we have the best car."

"The car was handling incredible," he added. "In the corners it has very good grip and it allows you to drive instinctively and easily. A spectacular weekend up until now.

"Today, for the first time in three years, we can be pretty sure that we had the best car on track."

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/alon ... ng-971975/


Alonso praising the car and not himself? Impossible, cannot be - that's what I've learnt reading here in the forum ...
:lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:31 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Let's hope that Renault don't take a step backward or even stand still over the winter with their PU. With a near equal PU in the McLaren and RB cars next year could be a hell of a season.

If Renault can pull a good engine for next year (they're far too good to continually get it wrong) then 2018 will be a classic.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:47 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Alonso must be fuming at his engine penalty this weekend.


Surely he must be very much used to these penalties by now. Starting at the back row is pretty common for any Honda powered car.

He'll be used to it but this is probably the one circuit where Honda's power deficit is masked. And judging by his Q1 time, as well as what he was doing in FP2, he's been on it in a big way.

One weekend where Fernando gets to mix it at the front again. It's all I ask.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:51 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Alonso must be fuming at his engine penalty this weekend.


Surely he must be very much used to these penalties by now. Starting at the back row is pretty common for any Honda powered car.

He'll be used to it but this is probably the one circuit where Honda's power deficit is masked. And judging by his Q1 time, as well as what he was doing in FP2, he's been on it in a big way.

One weekend where Fernando gets to mix it at the front again. It's all I ask.


Not masked at all. The McLarens are almost 20 mph slower on the long straight. They are crippled by the feckless Honda engine. McLaren have been pretty creative setting up tows during FP and Qualy, giving the impression that they have more speed than they actually have.

I'd like to see Fred up front as well, but it will never happen until next year.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:07 pm 
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Banana Man wrote:
That McLaren has to be up there with the best chassis on the grid. Amazing lap.


He got a nice tow, that's worth a whopping 0.5 sec.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:52 pm 
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Riccardo: I am not so sure if the "6-1-9" is allowed within the FIA regulations.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:33 am 
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Such a dominant car.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:08 am 
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red_alert wrote:
Once the talk about Ric to Merc heated up, his or the cars performanced dropped. Not a coincidence, I am not surprised. What is rather annoying is lots of people saying Max would have out qualified Dan regardless (if the had same spec and wasnt talk of move to merc). I believe Max was beaten in quali last weekend. People quick to forget and love a chance to blow bubbles up Max's ... and the #1 in the team. Or did they forget that too.


You do realize that Ricciardo was outqualified by a Force India right? He did not have a good day.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:16 am 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
That McLaren has to be up there with the best chassis on the grid. Amazing lap.


He got a nice tow, that's worth a whopping 0.5 sec.


No tow in the 2nd run which was quicker.

Don't think the tow worked that great at this altitude,where did you get 5ths from?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:25 am 
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Ocon put in a great lap, despite not running in FP1. Psychologically, he should've qualified lower than Checo but by posting the 6th fastest time, ahead of Ricciardo even, proves what a good choice he is for Force India.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:51 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Ocon put in a great lap, despite not running in FP1. Psychologically, he should've qualified lower than Checo but by posting the 6th fastest time, ahead of Ricciardo even, proves what a good choice he is for Force India.



He out-qualified Ricciardo too. The defence of Ricc doesn't make sense in this thread - he just had a bad day and admitted it outright. On the flipside, Max had a very good and very strong day.

Bottas had an improved day if his interviews are to be believed and Hamilton had a below-par day though he claims he couldn't have done much more.

Vettel was strong, similar to Verstappen. His lap was clean and more or less without error - didn't lose much time through one or two tiny errors.


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