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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:59 pm 
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Well, I say new trend, but has he revived an old one. His aim for the Triple Crown that is.

A top guy like Alonso valuing it may have implanted the thought in younger drivers that it is a worthy target. I do hope so.
I hope all the top drivers will now see this as a must for their CV.

Would it be good if Hamilton, Vettel, Mad Max, Danny Ric, Even Kimi wanted a shot before retiring?

The next logical step is the team covering all 3 events. Would it be huge if Mclaren ran Le mans and Indy?
Then Red Bull, Then Merc, then Ferrari, that's enough dreaming for tonight :] .

Could they one day even add FE?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:11 pm 
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I hope so but I think it comes down to preference and I wouldn't judge anyone if they didn't fancy doing Indy,Le Mans or even any form of Motorsport post F1.

A few have said once you've done F1 it's hard to get up for anything else but the more exposure Alonso gets then the more exposure each race gets and of course they both require their own unique challenges so the more we hear from recognised F1 talent like Alonso about those challenges then maybe the more appealing they can become.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:14 pm 
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I just wonder how it will fit in to the supposed future plans of having around about 25 races a year (which may include non-F1 Championship races IIRC??)

There's a lot that could be done there. A lot that can be built into the system.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:16 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
I hope so but I think it comes down to preference and I wouldn't judge anyone if they didn't fancy doing Indy,Le Mans or even any form of Motorsport post F1.

A few have said once you've done F1 it's hard to get up for anything else but the more exposure Alonso gets then the more exposure each race gets and of course they both require their own unique challenges so the more we hear from recognised F1 talent like Alonso about those challenges then maybe the more appealing they can become.


I see the problem being sponsors at the moment. Well, that and the team not wanting to loose the availability of a driver. The team and sponsors need to get on board to make it run. Maybe Liberty can guide it?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Invade wrote:
I just wonder how it will fit in to the supposed future plans of having around about 25 races a year (which may include non-F1 Championship races IIRC??)

There's a lot that could be done there. A lot that can be built into the system.



Ah, now here is an opening. Include them in the season.

Seriously, I dont think LM could, but why not Indy? Is there an entry numbers limit in indy?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:22 pm 
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moby wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
I hope so but I think it comes down to preference and I wouldn't judge anyone if they didn't fancy doing Indy,Le Mans or even any form of Motorsport post F1.

A few have said once you've done F1 it's hard to get up for anything else but the more exposure Alonso gets then the more exposure each race gets and of course they both require their own unique challenges so the more we hear from recognised F1 talent like Alonso about those challenges then maybe the more appealing they can become.


I see the problem being sponsors at the moment. Well, that and the team not wanting to loose the availability of a driver. The team and sponsors need to get on board to make it run. Maybe Liberty can guide it?


Yeah good point. There's probably a few drivers that would love to do a bit of everything but all kind of commitments get in the way.

Hopefully LM can have some influence yeah. I think making sure there's no clashes is one obvious thing, not that it's necessarily easy to do, and maybe giving teams some sort of incentive for allowing the drivers to do something else but not sure what.

I think it's in F1's interest to allow it for sure, especially with the big names if they're up for it. Seb's one I think seems keen. Lewis has mentioned Daytona in passing too.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:24 pm 
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I don't think so. Alonso's quest for the Triple Crown is inspired by the knowledge that circumstance has denied him any chance to establish himself statistically as an all-time great of F1, so he wants record-book immortality in a different way. Hamilton doesn't need it, Max and Ricciardo are too young to think about it, and I don't think Kimi gives a ****.

As for Vettel, I can see him trying Le Mans, but I don't see him putting himself up against a challenge like the Indy 500, in equal cars on an unfamiliar track with death as a real possibility. Maybe I'm being harsh on him, but I don't think he'd do that.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:35 pm 
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moby wrote:
Invade wrote:
I just wonder how it will fit in to the supposed future plans of having around about 25 races a year (which may include non-F1 Championship races IIRC??)

There's a lot that could be done there. A lot that can be built into the system.



Ah, now here is an opening. Include them in the season.

Seriously, I dont think LM could, but why not Indy? Is there an entry numbers limit in indy?



This is stretching it now but I'll put it out there anyway. Fundamentally, having the chance to see the best drivers from multiple codes come together to test each other would be absolutely blockbuster for racing fans the world over, and it's something there could be more of in the future. There would be a lot of ego, pride, anticipation and hype surrounding such events and I think they'd be immense fun and give rise to some very interesting debates as well as maybe even inspire certain racers to think more seriously about trying their hand elsewhere.

To answer your question though - I really don't know but I'm sure somebody will illuminate us. :!:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:04 pm 
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Invade wrote:
moby wrote:
Invade wrote:
I just wonder how it will fit in to the supposed future plans of having around about 25 races a year (which may include non-F1 Championship races IIRC??)

There's a lot that could be done there. A lot that can be built into the system.



Ah, now here is an opening. Include them in the season.

Seriously, I dont think LM could, but why not Indy? Is there an entry numbers limit in indy?



This is stretching it now but I'll put it out there anyway. Fundamentally, having the chance to see the best drivers from multiple codes come together to test each other would be absolutely blockbuster for racing fans the world over, and it's something there could be more of in the future. There would be a lot of ego, pride, anticipation and hype surrounding such events and I think they'd be immense fun and give rise to some very interesting debates as well as maybe even inspire certain racers to think more seriously about trying their hand elsewhere.

To answer your question though - I really don't know but I'm sure somebody will illuminate us. :!:


At one time it was 'outside' f1 but still part of the calender unofficially. This could easily be re-integrated if sponsors and teams were interested.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:15 am 
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I think it's great to see the drivers race in different series for a number of reasons and I so hope it's started a trend. Maybe it could extend both ways, how about a team running a third car for the Indy 500 winner or champ for example.

What I do wonder about Alonso though is, isn't this really just a plan B. If he had been sat in a Merc the last few years and had say just notched up WDC number 5, would he still be doing this?

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:27 am 
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I'd like to see McLaren doing a LeMans program, but let's face it, you pretty much have to be a engine manufacturer to be successful today in top tier motorsport. It's not even good enough being a works team, the engine has to be in synergy with the rest of the car. That's where the performance is found in these modern hybrids and electric vehicles.

Indycar would be nice, but let's ace it, it's an American series. The Brits had a good run at it when the series was still developing but now it makes far more sense to be based in the US if you are running it, unless McLaren wants to build a second HQ at Indy or Austin etc.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:28 am 
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McLaren in Indycar would sell their sportscars if they could make it a success.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:06 am 
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moby wrote:
Is there an entry numbers limit in indy?


33 cars.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:46 pm 
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Herb Tarlik wrote:
moby wrote:
Is there an entry numbers limit in indy?


33 cars.


There is not a limit on the number of cars ENTERED. That being said, no matter how many cars enter only the fastest 33 from qualifying will race.

In the past Indy Qualifying comprised two weekends. The fastest time set on the first Saturday garnered the Pole. All qualifiers on the 1st day were locked into their starting positions - UNLESS the slowest 1st day qualifier's time became the 34th or worse, in which case they were bumped from the field. Each day's qualifiers locked their position into the field, unless they were subsequently bumped from the field. During this period of time Indy would draw 250K-300K for the first day of qualifying. The 4th day of qualifications was known as Bump Day, as normally all 33 positions were already filled and a qualifier on the 4th day had to put in a time better than the 33rd fastest to make it into the field. It was not unheard of for someone to bump into the field, then the next driver attempting a qualification run to bump that person out where in that bumped driver got another opportunity to try to bump his car's way back into the field. Cars were give 3 attempts to qulaify; Drivers could try to qualify multiple cars. Today's qualification program is not the same.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:09 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
I think it's great to see the drivers race in different series for a number of reasons and I so hope it's started a trend. Maybe it could extend both ways, how about a team running a third car for the Indy 500 winner or champ for example.

What I do wonder about Alonso though is, isn't this really just a plan B. If he had been sat in a Merc the last few years and had say just notched up WDC number 5, would he still be doing this?


I don't think so. At least not until he retired. He has shown interest in Le Mans before so I could see him doing some WEC in an alternative universe post F1 and I think success there would have determined whether he gave Indy a bash for the Triple.

Only good thing about his lack of competitive cars is the chance to see him turn his hand at other categories and for fans of his driving it's probably prolonged how much we'll get to see of him performing. I think he'll be going well into his 40's in some category even if he achieved the triple.

Also think the cheaper series in America might tempt him to start a team in the future but that's another discussion.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:53 am 
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Racers Race! Alonso is a racer.

REAL Racers want to experience all the forms of Motorsport that the world has to offer. Alanso has the stature that he can participate in an form of the sport he desires and in a competitive vehicle in the form.

Personally, I wish we would go back to the 60's & 70's where F1 drivers participated all the top series both European, American and Australian - they needed the money! The money that sponsors throw at teams and drivers restrict the drivers innate desire to RACE. These days, with the testing ban, the only time drivers get in the cars is at 'Official Test Days' and Race Weekends - they aren't in the cars nearly as much as they want.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 9:27 am 
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This was always on cards because I doubt he is going to win any other race in F1 or may be even get a podium. If next year Mclaren can't get close to top3 teams I am sure he will retire but I doubt he will do something like Montoya and go fulltime.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:53 am 
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This is an era of specialization, where many drivers follow a very specific career path to a specific series (such as Formula One). In one way this is understandable because of financial conditions and the technical complexity of cars. But I come from a generation where we saw drivers cross over on a very frequent basis, and many just followed the money.

Yes, all drivers want to win, that is their primary goal. But many drivers also want to race hard and close, to enjoy true competition. Hamilton expressed that desire for Mexico, although it never came to pass. We must assume Alonso is looking at more than just Formula One.

Then came November 2016, Ron Dennis was forced out, replaced by Jonathan Neale as Chief Operating Officer and Zak Brown as new executive director of McLaren Technology Group.

Zak is an ex driver who has been exposed to all forms of motorsport. He is also co-owner of United Autosports.

So all of a sudden Ron is out, and Alonso finds a kindred spirit in Zak, where suddenly Alonso's desires outside of Formula One have support. Zak makes the deal with Andretti and Fernando has his Indy 500 adventure. But it appears this is not the end, Alonso now has a ride for the 24 hours of Daytona. In a car owned by a team Zak Brown. Yup, Fernando Alonso will be competing in a car co-owned by his McLaren boss.

Keep an eye on Zak Brown, he may be the next Bernie Ecclestone.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:34 pm 
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I'm sure Liberty saw the immense value of having Alonso race at Indy this year. USA is the nut that they most want to crack. I would like to think they would see the sense in working with IndyCar in separating the Indy 500 and Monaco race weekends

Likewise the Nico Hulkenberg story at Le Mans 2015 was a big one. Then the following year F1 went and stuck the Baku bore on the same weekend. Foot/shotgun. At least this year sense had resumed on that one. Surely Alonso will be at the 24 Hrs in 2018 if there's no clash

The final slap in the face that F1 keeps giving itself is starting the US GP at the exact same time as one of the more important NASCAR races. NASCAR has a knockout system over its final 10 races - at races #3, #6 and #9 a batch of drivers are knocked out (leaving a final 4 drivers competing for the title in race #10). The 2017 US GP started at the same time as race #6 of this final 10 races i.e. a knockout round where several drivers were going to be eliminated. As you can see, it's kinda important

Surely Liberty could work with NASCAR to avoid it. NASCAR is on something like 36 times a year, so there's very little chance of avoiding a clash altogether (however, NASCAR run a number of races on Saturday night - so there's one option). Even just swapping the US and Mexican GPs would have seen the US GP on at the same weekend as the lesser important NASCAR final race #7 - a race where nobody gets eliminated

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:54 pm 
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To answer the OP, simply put… No.

The last driver to love and attack motorsport the way the ironmen of yesteryear like Mario Andretti was not all that long ago and his name is Robbie Gordon.
He drove any and every racing series he could get himself into because he thoroughly enjoyed the challenges that every different discipline offered. His first big break came in the Stadium Truck series Loooooong ago alongside Ivan Stewart and though it took a little while to get up to speed with the old man, once he did he was excellent. From there he ventured out to Indy and Nascar and then a bunch of other series and he kept up an insane schedule for many years, But…

Sadly for him, I feel he tried too much too soon and his career turned out to be more along the lines of practitioner of all, expert in none, though he is quite close to expert in a great many facets.

With Alonso, he's stayed in F1 all these years and has gotten better and better and is arguably one of the top 3 drivers in the sport, and as such I think he will shine in any other series he participates in. The last guy to venture out while driving in F1 was Hulk and he won Le Mans and all the other drivers were in awe of that trophy.

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HAMILTON :: VETTEL :: ROSBERG :: RAIKKONEN :: VERSTAPPEN :: SAINZ :: MASSA :: BOTTAS :: NASR
ALONSO :: BUTTON :: PEREZ :: RICCIARDO :: GROSJEAN :: KVYAT :: HULKENBERG :: MALDONADO
THE REST… THERE ARE FAR BETTER DRIVERS THAT SHOULD BE IN FORMULA 1


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:08 pm 
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Could you imagine a Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen Le Mans entry ???


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:01 am 
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That would be insane but imagine swapping either Vettel or Verstappen for Alonso. Such a decision would likely lead to massive heart failure! LOL

I always hoped for a Schumacher/Vettel with either Heidfeld or Rosberg team-up for Lemans.

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ALONSO :: BUTTON :: PEREZ :: RICCIARDO :: GROSJEAN :: KVYAT :: HULKENBERG :: MALDONADO
THE REST… THERE ARE FAR BETTER DRIVERS THAT SHOULD BE IN FORMULA 1


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:21 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
To answer the OP, simply put… No.

The last driver to love and attack motorsport the way the ironmen of yesteryear like Mario Andretti was not all that long ago and his name is Robbie Gordon.
He drove any and every racing series he could get himself into because he thoroughly enjoyed the challenges that every different discipline offered. His first big break came in the Stadium Truck series Loooooong ago alongside Ivan Stewart and though it took a little while to get up to speed with the old man, once he did he was excellent. From there he ventured out to Indy and Nascar and then a bunch of other series and he kept up an insane schedule for many years, But…

Sadly for him, I feel he tried too much too soon and his career turned out to be more along the lines of practitioner of all, expert in none, though he is quite close to expert in a great many facets.

With Alonso, he's stayed in F1 all these years and has gotten better and better and is arguably one of the top 3 drivers in the sport, and as such I think he will shine in any other series he participates in. The last guy to venture out while driving in F1 was Hulk and he won Le Mans and all the other drivers were in awe of that trophy.


Yea, Robbie was one heck of a wheelman, one of those incredibly talented drivers like Hamilton or Vettel. One other "cross-over" driver I always liked was Danny Ongais, he came from drag racing.

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At one time the Indy 500 was part of the Formula One calendar.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:28 am 
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moby wrote:
Well, I say new trend, but has he revived an old one. His aim for the Triple Crown that is.

A top guy like Alonso valuing it may have implanted the thought in younger drivers that it is a worthy target. I do hope so.
I hope all the top drivers will now see this as a must for their CV.

Would it be good if Hamilton, Vettel, Mad Max, Danny Ric, Even Kimi wanted a shot before retiring?

The next logical step is the team covering all 3 events. Would it be huge if Mclaren ran Le mans and Indy?
Then Red Bull, Then Merc, then Ferrari, that's enough dreaming for tonight :] .

Could they one day even add FE?


Let's not, eh!

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
To answer the OP, simply put… No.

The last driver to love and attack motorsport the way the ironmen of yesteryear like Mario Andretti was not all that long ago and his name is Robbie Gordon.
He drove any and every racing series he could get himself into because he thoroughly enjoyed the challenges that every different discipline offered. His first big break came in the Stadium Truck series Loooooong ago alongside Ivan Stewart and though it took a little while to get up to speed with the old man, once he did he was excellent. From there he ventured out to Indy and Nascar and then a bunch of other series and he kept up an insane schedule for many years, But…

Sadly for him, I feel he tried too much too soon and his career turned out to be more along the lines of practitioner of all, expert in none, though he is quite close to expert in a great many facets.

With Alonso, he's stayed in F1 all these years and has gotten better and better and is arguably one of the top 3 drivers in the sport, and as such I think he will shine in any other series he participates in. The last guy to venture out while driving in F1 was Hulk and he won Le Mans and all the other drivers were in awe of that trophy.


Yea, Robbie was one heck of a wheelman, one of those incredibly talented drivers like Hamilton or Vettel. One other "cross-over" driver I always liked was Danny Ongais, he came from drag racing.

Image
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9As_VvU0AARQVi.jpg

At one time the Indy 500 was part of the Formula One calendar.

AAAAAAA-MEN on Ongais!

Sadly Disney forced ESPN to devolve it's secondary channels and one of the first things to go was their entire lineup of historic race coverage. They would run an entire 2-3 hour block of historic look backs on specific drivers, races, series, and technology in racing and then it would be followed by a block of classic NFL Films! Back then you could literally sit in front of the TV for an entire day without a single second of boredom or desire to see what else was on.

That's where I learned about guys like Ongias, Rutherford, Jones, the legend of the Unsers, Hulme, Garlits, Foyt, Dallenbach, Gurney, Johncock, Bettenhausen, Rindt, Hill, and many MANY more!

And while I remember the voice narrating the shows, what I remember more than anything was how the flag man stood ON the track as cars zipped by ever so dangerously close, and a couple of times with cars on fire, just out of focus, not 15 feet from them as they waved the flags. The horn led music and the mechanical sounds of cars crashing and bursting into flames took me right back to when I was 2-3 years old, standing on my mom's uncle's lap, looking down at the dirt oval that used to be a horse track, just behind my brandmother's 17th floor window in Puerto Rico, with my Green Lotus in one hand and my Scarlet Red Ferrari in the other! (the ones that made the winding noise and shot sparks out of the exhausts when you rolled them on the floor?!!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pDugHeoXg4

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ALONSO :: BUTTON :: PEREZ :: RICCIARDO :: GROSJEAN :: KVYAT :: HULKENBERG :: MALDONADO
THE REST… THERE ARE FAR BETTER DRIVERS THAT SHOULD BE IN FORMULA 1


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:26 pm 
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Maybe F1 MERCENARY and I have hit on something, that the less specialization the more wonderful memories. There is life outside of Formula One, and the more good series, the more crossovers, the more fans will be exposed to just great racing.

Formula One offers just 20 races and (for 2017) just 25 drivers to create memories. That is a very small pool to draw on, with just a handful of memorable moments in each race. Personally, I get more than that each day, lots and lots of racing and memories of just great stuff.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:43 pm 
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The only issue with that Blinky us that some other series just aren't what they used to be so while we would watch more races, I have no desire to watch a Nascar race ever again. It truly lost its roots when they went to a ready-made car where the cars are so identical only the fascia on the front and very rear are painted to appear different and only the engines are different. The whole motto of wind on Sunday sell on Monday dies when that happened and it took my heart with it.

Indy is one I only watch on occasion because I don't get the sense of competition with everyone fielding and driving the exact same car. If there were 3-4 chassis and a variety of engines, then it would once again have my full attention. To me that's feeder series stuff and because of how identical the cars are, it provides closer racing than most other types of Top-Level series. The European feeder series and the and Indy lights is where you want identical machinery so you can better assess talent making their way through the ranks and that makes for very exciting racing, but in the big time I feel all teams should field their own in-house built from the ground up machines because TEAM championships is what it's more about than the individual driver's championship.

IMPO, any top series that runs a singular sub-par chassis should automatically be excluded as a top-tier series. That's why F1 and Endurance racing is so much better for me personally.

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ALONSO :: BUTTON :: PEREZ :: RICCIARDO :: GROSJEAN :: KVYAT :: HULKENBERG :: MALDONADO
THE REST… THERE ARE FAR BETTER DRIVERS THAT SHOULD BE IN FORMULA 1


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:47 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
The only issue with that Blinky us that some other series just aren't what they used to be so while we would watch more races, I have no desire to watch a Nascar race ever again. It truly lost its roots when they went to a ready-made car where the cars are so identical only the fascia on the front and very rear are painted to appear different and only the engines are different. The whole motto of wind on Sunday sell on Monday dies when that happened and it took my heart with it.

Indy is one I only watch on occasion because I don't get the sense of competition with everyone fielding and driving the exact same car. If there were 3-4 chassis and a variety of engines, then it would once again have my full attention. To me that's feeder series stuff and because of how identical the cars are, it provides closer racing than most other types of Top-Level series. The European feeder series and the and Indy lights is where you want identical machinery so you can better assess talent making their way through the ranks and that makes for very exciting racing, but in the big time I feel all teams should field their own in-house built from the ground up machines because TEAM championships is what it's more about than the individual driver's championship.

IMPO, any top series that runs a singular sub-par chassis should automatically be excluded as a top-tier series. That's why F1 and Endurance racing is so much better for me personally.

Any series where the BEST DRIVERS can out class the rest - no matter how SPEC the equipment is worth watching those BEST DRIVERS compete against each other. The narrow deviation allowed in F1 rules have the cars being the next best thing to a SPEC series. Specialization sucks for the real racers among the drivers - limiting their opportunities to do what they love. If a driver is racing for money, he is not a racer, just a mercenary!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:55 pm 
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Hamilton will not leave his desire of 3+more titles


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:31 pm 
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mmi16 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
The only issue with that Blinky us that some other series just aren't what they used to be so while we would watch more races, I have no desire to watch a Nascar race ever again. It truly lost its roots when they went to a ready-made car where the cars are so identical only the fascia on the front and very rear are painted to appear different and only the engines are different. The whole motto of wind on Sunday sell on Monday dies when that happened and it took my heart with it.

Indy is one I only watch on occasion because I don't get the sense of competition with everyone fielding and driving the exact same car. If there were 3-4 chassis and a variety of engines, then it would once again have my full attention. To me that's feeder series stuff and because of how identical the cars are, it provides closer racing than most other types of Top-Level series. The European feeder series and the and Indy lights is where you want identical machinery so you can better assess talent making their way through the ranks and that makes for very exciting racing, but in the big time I feel all teams should field their own in-house built from the ground up machines because TEAM championships is what it's more about than the individual driver's championship.

IMPO, any top series that runs a singular sub-par chassis should automatically be excluded as a top-tier series. That's why F1 and Endurance racing is so much better for me personally.

Any series where the BEST DRIVERS can out class the rest - no matter how SPEC the equipment is worth watching those BEST DRIVERS compete against each other. The narrow deviation allowed in F1 rules have the cars being the next best thing to a SPEC series. Specialization sucks for the real racers among the drivers - limiting their opportunities to do what they love. If a driver is racing for money, he is not a racer, just a mercenary!

The problem there in lies in that in general, spec series exist in order to weed out the best talent in order to promote them. As such, most of the drivers are not elite just the way many college football players look elite among most contemporaries, but when they play in the NFL, the talent is just that much better, faster, stronger and the vast majority of those players who appeared elite, don't make the cut. So while in theory Spec series seem like a good idea, the reality is that spec series are generally just a tool for assessing talent for the big time. As far as I know, motor "racing" was born from different manufacturers and drivers wanting to prove they and their equipment was superior to the next guys' equipment. That's why series that feature a variety of cars and drivers is always more interesting to watch. At least for me and everyone I've ever met, outside the modern day Nascar fans, but the old school Nascar fans miss seeing completely different cars from different manufacturers duking it out because that's what made Nascar so great before this spec mentality came into play. Can you imagine a 24 hours of LeMans where all LMP1 entries were all a single make with the same engine? A MotoGP race where all the bikes were all identical?

While I can appreciate some spec series, I feel "Variety is the Spice of Life" rings true for almost everything, including top-level racing.

In regards to F1 being almost a spec series, not a a gazillion years. Every single car is completely unique to one another outside the legality plank, and overall length & width. Everything else is completely unique to each team, even systems they copy from one another or else everyone with a Mercedes engine and a top driver would be fighting for wins equally.

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ALONSO :: BUTTON :: PEREZ :: RICCIARDO :: GROSJEAN :: KVYAT :: HULKENBERG :: MALDONADO
THE REST… THERE ARE FAR BETTER DRIVERS THAT SHOULD BE IN FORMULA 1


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:07 pm 
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slide wrote:
Hamilton will not leave his desire of 3+more titles


Good for him.

And thus I will always think of him as extremely talented, but self-limited to a sole dimension. My adoration goes to milti-faceted smart racers who were not afraid to drive anything, anywhere. Guys like Nuvolari, Sir Sterling Moss, AJ Foyt, Mario, Jackie Ickx, and Brian Redman.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:56 pm 
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Put bluntly; there are not many series that still present much in the way of prestige and challenge. Or rather, F1 and a couple of other series have evolved into vastly more competitive landscapes while many series are still primarily populated by the people who had the money to get there rather than some sort of elite group of talented drivers.

Indy Car is a shell of its former glory; populated by second rate drivers and teams that are essentially supplied with identical equipment. NASCAR has fallen off from its glory days in the first decade of this century and is a bubble unto itself in terms of the drivers anyway. You don't see many people coming into NASACAR from the outside and achieving much success and you don't see NASCAR drivers achieving success elsewhere. WRC you ask? Again, this is a very specialized discipline. It wouldn't be something that an F1 driver could easily jump into as Raikkonen discovered in 2010.

Really, the viable alternatives for F1 drivers are Indy Cars and Sports Cars (WEC or perhaps Super GT if they are feeling racey). Indy Car is a complete step down from F1 in every way and WEC is basically a halfway house for wayward F1 drivers. GT and touring car series are fun to watch but, again, they are mostly populated by F1 washouts (although they will test your mettle as a racer).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that for an elite F1 driver today, doing most of these other series would basically just be something for fun. It wouldn't be nearly the level of competition that they face in F1. The series that do have a similar level of competition (WRC, MotoGP, etc.) are so specialized that an outsider would have little chance of success.

I'd like to leave by taking F1 Mercenary and Blinky's name drops (Andretti and Ongais) and add the great John Surtees; who actually won an F1 championship along with MotoGP titles in multiple categories. That's something you can almost guarantee will never happen again! But I think it's important not to get lost in nostalgia and hero worship. The reason things like that cannot happen is because motor sports have become exponentially more competitive with more and more youngsters competing from a younger and younger age to eventually earn one of those few spots on the grid.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
slide wrote:
Hamilton will not leave his desire of 3+more titles


Good for him.

And thus I will always think of him as extremely talented, but self-limited to a sole dimension. My adoration goes to milti-faceted smart racers who were not afraid to drive anything, anywhere. Guys like Nuvolari, Sir Sterling Moss, AJ Foyt, Mario, Jackie Ickx, and Brian Redman.

Preech on Brother!

And while I agree on the latter part of your statement, I disagree a bit with the former part of your post.

While I too wish Hamilton would venture out from F1 to test himself in several different genres, F1 today is a far cry from what it once was. F1 is now more demanding of a driver's time because not only are there so many more races, but drivers today also have do make tons of appearances on behalf of their teams and sponsors, and someone the likes of Hamilton, has so many other independent endorsement deals apart from the portfolio of F1 tied sponsors, there is literally almost no time to even think about other genres. And I haven't even factored in Lewis' charity work which also takes a good amount of his time.

Back in the day, Mario flip flopped all over the globe racing anything and everything he could strap himself into, racing several different genres within a weeks time, and became the most legendary and one of the most successful race car drivers of all times, and IMPO the greatest race car driver of all times, but he was only able to do all of those things because he lived for himself, the Mario Andretti brand, and he didn't have anywhere near the amount of sponsor responsibilities that a modern day driver does. All he had to do was show up and drive, which he literally did hundreds of times. 8O

No practice time or nothing, just get in, start the engine go around the track and get a feel for his cars and lead foot it once the green flag waved. And when you think about how unsafe cars were those days it makes his accomplishments even more astonishing.

Today guys prepare for weeks, even months for a one-off race like Hulk did for LeMans and it's viewed as an amazing feat, but in reality, it's nothing compared to what drivers used to do without batting an eye. The biggest benefit to this is that today's race drivers are more specialized, polished and skilled in their disciplines so they don't make as many mistakes as they used to which in part contributes to the illusion of nothing happening. An entire field split but less than half a second is actually ridiculously impressive and it's sad so many people miss that totally.

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ALONSO :: BUTTON :: PEREZ :: RICCIARDO :: GROSJEAN :: KVYAT :: HULKENBERG :: MALDONADO
THE REST… THERE ARE FAR BETTER DRIVERS THAT SHOULD BE IN FORMULA 1


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:18 pm 
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Interesting… Alonso visited Toyota Hybrid for a seat fitting for the 24 hours of Le Mans. Didn't see that one coming. With Toyota that is.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/11/0 ... tting.html

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ALONSO :: BUTTON :: PEREZ :: RICCIARDO :: GROSJEAN :: KVYAT :: HULKENBERG :: MALDONADO
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:56 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Interesting… Alonso visited Toyota Hybrid for a seat fitting for the 24 hours of Le Mans. Didn't see that one coming. With Toyota that is.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/11/0 ... tting.html

Kind of a head-scratcher that. Won't McLaren have GTE cars running in that race?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:18 pm 
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yes but Alonso would most likely look upon that as a downgrade. LMP1 is the equivalent of F1 in endurance racing so I imagine thta's why he's testing for Toyota. I'm not aware of any other open slots and didn't think Toyota had an opening either. Would've been nice to see him and Mark in the Porsche together.

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ALONSO :: BUTTON :: PEREZ :: RICCIARDO :: GROSJEAN :: KVYAT :: HULKENBERG :: MALDONADO
THE REST… THERE ARE FAR BETTER DRIVERS THAT SHOULD BE IN FORMULA 1


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:01 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
yes but Alonso would most likely look upon that as a downgrade. LMP1 is the equivalent of F1 in endurance racing so I imagine thta's why he's testing for Toyota. I'm not aware of any other open slots and didn't think Toyota had an opening either. Would've been nice to see him and Mark in the Porsche together.

It's just odd that McLaren and Renault would be fine with Alonso driving for a totally different brand. I suppose McLaren are in desperation mode but it's strange none-the-less.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:46 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
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yes but Alonso would most likely look upon that as a downgrade. LMP1 is the equivalent of F1 in endurance racing so I imagine thta's why he's testing for Toyota. I'm not aware of any other open slots and didn't think Toyota had an opening either. Would've been nice to see him and Mark in the Porsche together.

It's just odd that McLaren and Renault would be fine with Alonso driving for a totally different brand. I suppose McLaren are in desperation mode but it's strange none-the-less.

On the one hand I think Zak Brown will bend over backwards for Alonso, on the other hand I think he really does see the value in his star driver being headline news in the world's biggest races

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:31 pm 
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That's an excellent point mcdo.

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ALONSO :: BUTTON :: PEREZ :: RICCIARDO :: GROSJEAN :: KVYAT :: HULKENBERG :: MALDONADO
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:16 am 
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Just about the only "feelgood" story to come out of McLaren this year.

Alonso will drive what is basically an LMP2 car, the Ligier JS P217. But Toyota, their game is LMP1. And if he does do LeMans, that is what he will drive.

Toyota have never won LeMans, despite an expensive campaign for the last few years. With Porsche now out of LeMans, that gives an even better opportunity for Toyota to win the big race. And if you want to make a big push to secure a major win, you also go with top drivers.

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