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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:43 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Fantaribo wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlSq_R2a7t4

But in this case Alonso wasn't doing that? Grosjean was nowhere near the edge of track when he decided to go full on the throttle and jump a vast section of track. It was a very deliberate attempt to cheat because cutting the corner at all was unnecessary. I 5 second penalty was way to lenient he probably gained close to that if you consider he would have lost time with Alonso passing him.

It's 100% a penalty and I hate this kind of thing from Grosjean. He is not a rookie anymore and he should know better.

This youtube video (recreated in a video game ??) is ridiculous. Here is the real onboard, from the official F1 youtube channel : https://youtu.be/-j1Dia_B_S4?t=1m42s

Image

I'm assuming this screenshot invalidates most of the posts above mine.


I have to agree. Alonso left him no room at all, and actually touched Grosjean's car too. This is a pretty similar incident to Ricciardo and Bottas at COTA. Grosjean had no other option but to leave the track or back out of it completely, and noone does the latter.

No you have to watch the overtake in motion. Alonso passed him and was ahead of him. He does not have to leave room at all and Ro-Gro should have backed out instead of keeping his foot on the gas. You only have to leave room when the other driver is alongside you or in front; not when he's behind.

Grosjean was actually in front at the apex of the corner, Alonso just bludgeoned his way down the inside of him and forced him wide and apparently there was also contact?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:49 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fantaribo wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlSq_R2a7t4

But in this case Alonso wasn't doing that? Grosjean was nowhere near the edge of track when he decided to go full on the throttle and jump a vast section of track. It was a very deliberate attempt to cheat because cutting the corner at all was unnecessary. I 5 second penalty was way to lenient he probably gained close to that if you consider he would have lost time with Alonso passing him.

It's 100% a penalty and I hate this kind of thing from Grosjean. He is not a rookie anymore and he should know better.

This youtube video (recreated in a video game ??) is ridiculous. Here is the real onboard, from the official F1 youtube channel : https://youtu.be/-j1Dia_B_S4?t=1m42s

Image

I'm assuming this screenshot invalidates most of the posts above mine.

Absolutely that must have been created by an Alonso supporter, so what I can gather is that Grosjean was actually ahead at the apex and then Alonso ran Grosjean off the track, Grosjean had no other option, was the passing of the Force India car by Grosjean also made up?

Also I guess Alonso immediately got on the radioi and said that Grosjean passed him off the track, it seems to be very much the Alonso tactic these days.


Nope, Alonso was ahead at the apex, you can see it in the video.(Not the game one).

Alonso has the same tactic as any other driver, when he see's something he flags it up. There literally isn't a driver who doesn't do this on the grid.

Well I have to believe you on that one, however he wasn't ahead at the apex when he looked to push Hamilton wide plus he made contact, also I've seen Alonso pass cars by going off the track but he magically seems to get away with it, it seems some drivers have more weight in what they say than others?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:50 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Alonso hits the apex perfectly and takes the racing line for the corner, you'd be as well banning overtaking if you're going to outlaw that.
I know this is supposed to have been clarified after Belgium or Italy, but as far as I can tell, no rule allowing this was mentioned. In Whiting's explanation, being ahead at the apex is supposed to convey the right to remain on the racing line. I can't say I can spot the relevant rule in the regulations.Perhaps somebody else can?


What rule did Alonso break?
How about this one?
Quote:
However, manoeuvres liable to hinder other drivers, such as deliberate crowding of a car beyond the edge of the track or any other abnormal change of direction, are strictly prohibited.


While Alonso did overtake Grosjean, shouldn't there be a penalty for deliberately running Grosjean off the track? When Alonso overtook Grosjean again later, he again ran him off the track, inflicting damage on Grosjean's car as he did so. This time, Grosjean was unable to cut across the corner, as there were sleeping policemen installed in turn 1.

I'm all for good racing, but running competitors off the track is supposed to be illegal. Also, it's all good and well to be ahead at the apex, but the driver dropping behind is not yet behind. Not being given space and time to drop behind will one day result in a serious accident. After which some of the culprits will go crying to race control.

I commented on Alonso hitting Grosjean's car at the time along with running him off the track, he did similar to Hamilton later in the race when defending his position, Hamilton was on the outside and ahead at the apex but Alonso simply chose to stay off the brakes later so he could run Hamilton wide and in doing so he also hit Hamilton's car causing some damage to it.

Alonso gets away with this driving whilst at the same time he is quick to get on the radio to the stewards if he himself believes he has been wronged.


No he wasn't, it too is in the video(You can see Alo's front left when Lewis goes to turn in) and Alonso "staying off the brakes" got him the apex so he could run him out quite legitimately.

Hence no complaining from Lewis. Alonso asked his engineer if Lewis was off the track but he wasn't so all good. He didn't flag it to Charlie like the Grosjean one, you could tell by the way he asked it was more hope rather than he'd seen it.

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Last edited by Lotus49 on Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Nope, Alonso was ahead at the apex, you can see it in the video.(Not the game one).

Alonso has the same tactic as any other driver, when he see's something he flags it up. There literally isn't a driver who doesn't do this on the grid.

BIB: That's true. At either COTA of Mexico they played radio of Ocon's engineer almost encouraging him to complain about some incident.

But in what you might call a personal bias I do attribute the trend to some degree to Alonso. He was the first I noticed it in and IMO often when he was the one at fault.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:55 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fantaribo wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
It's 100% a penalty and I hate this kind of thing from Grosjean. He is not a rookie anymore and he should know better.

This youtube video (recreated in a video game ??) is ridiculous. Here is the real onboard, from the official F1 youtube channel : https://youtu.be/-j1Dia_B_S4?t=1m42s

Image

I'm assuming this screenshot invalidates most of the posts above mine.

Absolutely that must have been created by an Alonso supporter, so what I can gather is that Grosjean was actually ahead at the apex and then Alonso ran Grosjean off the track, Grosjean had no other option, was the passing of the Force India car by Grosjean also made up?

Also I guess Alonso immediately got on the radioi and said that Grosjean passed him off the track, it seems to be very much the Alonso tactic these days.


Nope, Alonso was ahead at the apex, you can see it in the video.(Not the game one).

Alonso has the same tactic as any other driver, when he see's something he flags it up. There literally isn't a driver who doesn't do this on the grid.

Well I have to believe you on that one, however he wasn't ahead at the apex when he looked to push Hamilton wide plus he made contact, also I've seen Alonso pass cars by going off the track but he magically seems to get away with it, it seems some drivers have more weight in what they say than others?


Don't take my word, click the link and watch it yourself. Might refresh your memory for the Lewis and Alonso battle because you're not remembering it very well.

He gets away with what most drivers get away with if they claim the exit and are trying to run out the guy on the outside. Do you remember which recent battles restarted this debate about running out drivers on exit and created the precedent for not punishing it?.

Who did Alonso pass off track?.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:59 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Nope, Alonso was ahead at the apex, you can see it in the video.(Not the game one).

Alonso has the same tactic as any other driver, when he see's something he flags it up. There literally isn't a driver who doesn't do this on the grid.

BIB: That's true. At either COTA of Mexico they played radio of Ocon's engineer almost encouraging him to complain about some incident.

But in what you might call a personal bias I do attribute the trend to some degree to Alonso. He was the first I noticed it in and IMO often when he was the one at fault.


Leave-a-da-space was probably the most famous so it's fair enough if you do really but there was people doing it before that of course.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:05 pm 
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I don't agree with what Alonso did in the second incident with RoGro though, you shouldn't take matters into your own hands and it was clumsy as hell and could have wrecked his race.

1st incident and Lewis "incident" was fine as is currently allowed thanks to the multiple Nico-Lewis melee's.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:22 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Fantaribo wrote:
This youtube video (recreated in a video game ??) is ridiculous. Here is the real onboard, from the official F1 youtube channel : https://youtu.be/-j1Dia_B_S4?t=1m42s

Image

I'm assuming this screenshot invalidates most of the posts above mine.

Absolutely that must have been created by an Alonso supporter, so what I can gather is that Grosjean was actually ahead at the apex and then Alonso ran Grosjean off the track, Grosjean had no other option, was the passing of the Force India car by Grosjean also made up?

Also I guess Alonso immediately got on the radioi and said that Grosjean passed him off the track, it seems to be very much the Alonso tactic these days.


Nope, Alonso was ahead at the apex, you can see it in the video.(Not the game one).

Alonso has the same tactic as any other driver, when he see's something he flags it up. There literally isn't a driver who doesn't do this on the grid.

Well I have to believe you on that one, however he wasn't ahead at the apex when he looked to push Hamilton wide plus he made contact, also I've seen Alonso pass cars by going off the track but he magically seems to get away with it, it seems some drivers have more weight in what they say than others?


Don't take my word, click the link and watch it yourself. Might refresh your memory for the Lewis and Alonso battle because you're not remembering it very well.

He gets away with what most drivers get away with if they claim the exit and are trying to run out the guy on the outside. Do you remember which recent battles restarted this debate about running out drivers on exit and created the precedent for not punishing it?.

Who did Alonso pass off track?.

It was a double incident when he dive bombed Massa on the inside of a double apex left hand corner, I believe he touched Massa's car and then run both of them off the track and then a couple of corners later he went to pass Sainz, Sainz defended the inside, Alonso got passed on the outside but then locked up sailed off the track and then rejoined the track in front of Sainz, it's strange how Alonso always gets a free pass whilst his opponents get penalised, the power of what you say on the radio I guess?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:24 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Nope, Alonso was ahead at the apex, you can see it in the video.(Not the game one).

Alonso has the same tactic as any other driver, when he see's something he flags it up. There literally isn't a driver who doesn't do this on the grid.

BIB: That's true. At either COTA of Mexico they played radio of Ocon's engineer almost encouraging him to complain about some incident.

But in what you might call a personal bias I do attribute the trend to some degree to Alonso. He was the first I noticed it in and IMO often when he was the one at fault.


Leave-a-da-space was probably the most famous so it's fair enough if you do really but there was people doing it before that of course.

This is were Hamilton taps front wheels with Rosberg whereas Alonso hit the side of Hamilton's car and damaged his barge board.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:40 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Absolutely that must have been created by an Alonso supporter, so what I can gather is that Grosjean was actually ahead at the apex and then Alonso ran Grosjean off the track, Grosjean had no other option, was the passing of the Force India car by Grosjean also made up?

Also I guess Alonso immediately got on the radioi and said that Grosjean passed him off the track, it seems to be very much the Alonso tactic these days.


Nope, Alonso was ahead at the apex, you can see it in the video.(Not the game one).

Alonso has the same tactic as any other driver, when he see's something he flags it up. There literally isn't a driver who doesn't do this on the grid.

Well I have to believe you on that one, however he wasn't ahead at the apex when he looked to push Hamilton wide plus he made contact, also I've seen Alonso pass cars by going off the track but he magically seems to get away with it, it seems some drivers have more weight in what they say than others?


Don't take my word, click the link and watch it yourself. Might refresh your memory for the Lewis and Alonso battle because you're not remembering it very well.

He gets away with what most drivers get away with if they claim the exit and are trying to run out the guy on the outside. Do you remember which recent battles restarted this debate about running out drivers on exit and created the precedent for not punishing it?.

Who did Alonso pass off track?.

It was a double incident when he dive bombed Massa on the inside of a double apex left hand corner, I believe he touched Massa's car and then run both of them off the track and then a couple of corners later he went to pass Sainz, Sainz defended the inside, Alonso got passed on the outside but then locked up sailed off the track and then rejoined the track in front of Sainz, it's strange how Alonso always gets a free pass whilst his opponents get penalised, the power of what you say on the radio I guess?


Nothing wrong with those passes. With Massa he had the apex and with Carlos he was already ahead by the braking zone when he locked up and ran out. Last time I checked if you are ahead and leave the track you are under no obligation to hand a place back.

If that's the type of incidents you consider a free pass then no wonder you think he gets away with a lot as you're finding perfectly legal moves illegal.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:41 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Nope, Alonso was ahead at the apex, you can see it in the video.(Not the game one).

Alonso has the same tactic as any other driver, when he see's something he flags it up. There literally isn't a driver who doesn't do this on the grid.

BIB: That's true. At either COTA of Mexico they played radio of Ocon's engineer almost encouraging him to complain about some incident.

But in what you might call a personal bias I do attribute the trend to some degree to Alonso. He was the first I noticed it in and IMO often when he was the one at fault.


Leave-a-da-space was probably the most famous so it's fair enough if you do really but there was people doing it before that of course.

This is were Hamilton taps front wheels with Rosberg whereas Alonso hit the side of Hamilton's car and damaged his barge board.


Sorry?.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Nope, Alonso was ahead at the apex, you can see it in the video.(Not the game one).

Alonso has the same tactic as any other driver, when he see's something he flags it up. There literally isn't a driver who doesn't do this on the grid.

BIB: That's true. At either COTA of Mexico they played radio of Ocon's engineer almost encouraging him to complain about some incident.

But in what you might call a personal bias I do attribute the trend to some degree to Alonso. He was the first I noticed it in and IMO often when he was the one at fault.


Leave-a-da-space was probably the most famous so it's fair enough if you do really but there was people doing it before that of course.

Of course people were doing it before and I'm not trying to pretend otherwise. There is also the possibility that the perception is there because there's more radio traffic being broadcast these days than there was before.

But indeed leave-a-da-space was one that kinda stuck in my craw. ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:44 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Nope, Alonso was ahead at the apex, you can see it in the video.(Not the game one).

Alonso has the same tactic as any other driver, when he see's something he flags it up. There literally isn't a driver who doesn't do this on the grid.

BIB: That's true. At either COTA of Mexico they played radio of Ocon's engineer almost encouraging him to complain about some incident.

But in what you might call a personal bias I do attribute the trend to some degree to Alonso. He was the first I noticed it in and IMO often when he was the one at fault.


Leave-a-da-space was probably the most famous so it's fair enough if you do really but there was people doing it before that of course.

This is were Hamilton taps front wheels with Rosberg whereas Alonso hit the side of Hamilton's car and damaged his barge board.


Sorry?.

Wrong quote

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:45 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
I don't agree with what Alonso did in the second incident with RoGro though, you shouldn't take matters into your own hands and it was clumsy as hell and could have wrecked his race.

1st incident and Lewis "incident" was fine as is currently allowed thanks to the multiple Nico-Lewis melee's.

This is were Hamilton taps front wheels with Rosberg whereas Alonso hit the side of Hamilton's car and damaged his barge board.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:46 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Nope, Alonso was ahead at the apex, you can see it in the video.(Not the game one).

Alonso has the same tactic as any other driver, when he see's something he flags it up. There literally isn't a driver who doesn't do this on the grid.

BIB: That's true. At either COTA of Mexico they played radio of Ocon's engineer almost encouraging him to complain about some incident.

But in what you might call a personal bias I do attribute the trend to some degree to Alonso. He was the first I noticed it in and IMO often when he was the one at fault.


Leave-a-da-space was probably the most famous so it's fair enough if you do really but there was people doing it before that of course.

Of course people were doing it before and I'm not trying to pretend otherwise. There is also the possibility that the perception is there because there's more radio traffic being broadcast these days than there was before.

But indeed leave-a-da-space was one that kinda stuck in my craw. ;)


Yeah it was annoying for sure but there's no bigger bunch of cry babies than racing drivers unfortunately. And now we're at a point where if they don't moan then RC just ignore it which just makes it even worse (Your Ocon's engineer point).

So now we get drivers running commentary on moves,debris,SC's and the weather.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Nope, Alonso was ahead at the apex, you can see it in the video.(Not the game one).

Alonso has the same tactic as any other driver, when he see's something he flags it up. There literally isn't a driver who doesn't do this on the grid.

Well I have to believe you on that one, however he wasn't ahead at the apex when he looked to push Hamilton wide plus he made contact, also I've seen Alonso pass cars by going off the track but he magically seems to get away with it, it seems some drivers have more weight in what they say than others?


Don't take my word, click the link and watch it yourself. Might refresh your memory for the Lewis and Alonso battle because you're not remembering it very well.

He gets away with what most drivers get away with if they claim the exit and are trying to run out the guy on the outside. Do you remember which recent battles restarted this debate about running out drivers on exit and created the precedent for not punishing it?.

Who did Alonso pass off track?.

It was a double incident when he dive bombed Massa on the inside of a double apex left hand corner, I believe he touched Massa's car and then run both of them off the track and then a couple of corners later he went to pass Sainz, Sainz defended the inside, Alonso got passed on the outside but then locked up sailed off the track and then rejoined the track in front of Sainz, it's strange how Alonso always gets a free pass whilst his opponents get penalised, the power of what you say on the radio I guess?


Nothing wrong with those passes. With Massa he had the apex and with Carlos he was already ahead by the braking zone when he locked up and ran out. Last time I checked if you are ahead and leave the track you are under no obligation to hand a place back.

If that's the type of incidents you consider a free pass then no wonder you think he gets away with a lot as you're finding perfectly legal moves illegal.

He had the apex after he hit Massa's car, so with Sainz it's alright to outbrake yourself and leave the track to complete the pass?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:10 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
I don't agree with what Alonso did in the second incident with RoGro though, you shouldn't take matters into your own hands and it was clumsy as hell and could have wrecked his race.

1st incident and Lewis "incident" was fine as is currently allowed thanks to the multiple Nico-Lewis melee's.

This is were Hamilton taps front wheels with Rosberg whereas Alonso hit the side of Hamilton's car and damaged his barge board.



Does the fact some damage occurrs automatically make a move illegal now?. Lewis coming through the field in Germany 2014 ringing any bells?. Were you up in arms when he was bouncing of cars left right and centre with no penalty. Sometimes contact occurs and it's ridiculous to think tyres are ok to hit but the floor isn't, as if they were bloody aiming in the first place.

Bizarre how badly you are taking that battle, everyone else seemed to love it.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:17 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well I have to believe you on that one, however he wasn't ahead at the apex when he looked to push Hamilton wide plus he made contact, also I've seen Alonso pass cars by going off the track but he magically seems to get away with it, it seems some drivers have more weight in what they say than others?


Don't take my word, click the link and watch it yourself. Might refresh your memory for the Lewis and Alonso battle because you're not remembering it very well.

He gets away with what most drivers get away with if they claim the exit and are trying to run out the guy on the outside. Do you remember which recent battles restarted this debate about running out drivers on exit and created the precedent for not punishing it?.

Who did Alonso pass off track?.

It was a double incident when he dive bombed Massa on the inside of a double apex left hand corner, I believe he touched Massa's car and then run both of them off the track and then a couple of corners later he went to pass Sainz, Sainz defended the inside, Alonso got passed on the outside but then locked up sailed off the track and then rejoined the track in front of Sainz, it's strange how Alonso always gets a free pass whilst his opponents get penalised, the power of what you say on the radio I guess?


Nothing wrong with those passes. With Massa he had the apex and with Carlos he was already ahead by the braking zone when he locked up and ran out. Last time I checked if you are ahead and leave the track you are under no obligation to hand a place back.

If that's the type of incidents you consider a free pass then no wonder you think he gets away with a lot as you're finding perfectly legal moves illegal.

He had the apex after he hit Massa's car, so with Sainz it's alright to outbrake yourself and leave the track to complete the pass?


No he didn't, Massa was sleeping and Alonso jumped in and took it and Massa tried to close the door when he was already there..



And the move on Carlos was completed just before the braking zone...



So yes both perfectly fine as the rules stand so no wonder there was no penalty and it's got nothing to do with getting a free pass as you suggested.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:20 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
I don't agree with what Alonso did in the second incident with RoGro though, you shouldn't take matters into your own hands and it was clumsy as hell and could have wrecked his race.

1st incident and Lewis "incident" was fine as is currently allowed thanks to the multiple Nico-Lewis melee's.

This is were Hamilton taps front wheels with Rosberg whereas Alonso hit the side of Hamilton's car and damaged his barge board.



Does the fact some damage occurrs automatically make a move illegal now?. Lewis coming through the field in Germany 2014 ringing any bells?. Were you up in arms when he was bouncing of cars left right and centre with no penalty. Sometimes contact occurs and it's ridiculous to think tyres are ok to hit but the floor isn't, as if they were bloody aiming in the first place.

Bizarre how badly you are taking that battle, everyone else seemed to love it.

Well he was trying to pass 3 cars at the time and they all got in one anothers way and contact was before the entry of the corner, he hit 1 car but bouncing about like a pin ball perhaps sounds better perhaps.

So one incident were a driver was not impeccable against multiple incidents for another driver, 2 in one race.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:30 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Don't take my word, click the link and watch it yourself. Might refresh your memory for the Lewis and Alonso battle because you're not remembering it very well.

He gets away with what most drivers get away with if they claim the exit and are trying to run out the guy on the outside. Do you remember which recent battles restarted this debate about running out drivers on exit and created the precedent for not punishing it?.

Who did Alonso pass off track?.

It was a double incident when he dive bombed Massa on the inside of a double apex left hand corner, I believe he touched Massa's car and then run both of them off the track and then a couple of corners later he went to pass Sainz, Sainz defended the inside, Alonso got passed on the outside but then locked up sailed off the track and then rejoined the track in front of Sainz, it's strange how Alonso always gets a free pass whilst his opponents get penalised, the power of what you say on the radio I guess?


Nothing wrong with those passes. With Massa he had the apex and with Carlos he was already ahead by the braking zone when he locked up and ran out. Last time I checked if you are ahead and leave the track you are under no obligation to hand a place back.

If that's the type of incidents you consider a free pass then no wonder you think he gets away with a lot as you're finding perfectly legal moves illegal.

He had the apex after he hit Massa's car, so with Sainz it's alright to outbrake yourself and leave the track to complete the pass?


No he didn't, Massa was sleeping and Alonso jumped in and took it and Massa tried to close the door when he was already there..



And the move on Carlos was completed just before the braking zone...



So yes both perfectly fine as the rules stand so no wonder there was no penalty and it's got nothing to do with getting a free pass as you suggested.

Against Massa he put both cars completely off the track how was that even legal?

Against Sainz interesting that Alonso went off the track twice during the fight but we've seen how lenient they are at Austin. He was fully past Sainz before he went off the track but in a role reversal would not have Alonso been on the radio complaining like he always does having seen Sainz off the track?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:37 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
I don't agree with what Alonso did in the second incident with RoGro though, you shouldn't take matters into your own hands and it was clumsy as hell and could have wrecked his race.

1st incident and Lewis "incident" was fine as is currently allowed thanks to the multiple Nico-Lewis melee's.

This is were Hamilton taps front wheels with Rosberg whereas Alonso hit the side of Hamilton's car and damaged his barge board.



Does the fact some damage occurrs automatically make a move illegal now?. Lewis coming through the field in Germany 2014 ringing any bells?. Were you up in arms when he was bouncing of cars left right and centre with no penalty. Sometimes contact occurs and it's ridiculous to think tyres are ok to hit but the floor isn't, as if they were bloody aiming in the first place.

Bizarre how badly you are taking that battle, everyone else seemed to love it.

Well he was trying to pass 3 cars at the time and they all got in one anothers way and contact was before the entry of the corner, he hit 1 car but bouncing about like a pin ball perhaps sounds better perhaps.

So one incident were a driver was not impeccable against multiple incidents for another driver, 2 in one race.


Yes that's the only incident in Hamilton's career he wasn't impeccable. :uhoh:

The point was not all contact should be penalized and I gave an example. Hard but fair racing is fine by me and the Lewis battle was great. I've already said the 2nd RoGro incident wasn't for me.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:44 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
I don't agree with what Alonso did in the second incident with RoGro though, you shouldn't take matters into your own hands and it was clumsy as hell and could have wrecked his race.

1st incident and Lewis "incident" was fine as is currently allowed thanks to the multiple Nico-Lewis melee's.

This is were Hamilton taps front wheels with Rosberg whereas Alonso hit the side of Hamilton's car and damaged his barge board.



Does the fact some damage occurrs automatically make a move illegal now?. Lewis coming through the field in Germany 2014 ringing any bells?. Were you up in arms when he was bouncing of cars left right and centre with no penalty. Sometimes contact occurs and it's ridiculous to think tyres are ok to hit but the floor isn't, as if they were bloody aiming in the first place.

Bizarre how badly you are taking that battle, everyone else seemed to love it.

Well he was trying to pass 3 cars at the time and they all got in one anothers way and contact was before the entry of the corner, he hit 1 car but bouncing about like a pin ball perhaps sounds better perhaps.

So one incident were a driver was not impeccable against multiple incidents for another driver, 2 in one race.


Yes that's the only incident in Hamilton's career he wasn't impeccable. :uhoh:

The point was not all contact should be penalized and I gave an example. Hard but fair racing is fine by me and the Lewis battle was great. I've already said the 2nd RoGro incident wasn't for me.

In recent years, I'm just flagging up drivers that do things repeatedly.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:45 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It was a double incident when he dive bombed Massa on the inside of a double apex left hand corner, I believe he touched Massa's car and then run both of them off the track and then a couple of corners later he went to pass Sainz, Sainz defended the inside, Alonso got passed on the outside but then locked up sailed off the track and then rejoined the track in front of Sainz, it's strange how Alonso always gets a free pass whilst his opponents get penalised, the power of what you say on the radio I guess?


Nothing wrong with those passes. With Massa he had the apex and with Carlos he was already ahead by the braking zone when he locked up and ran out. Last time I checked if you are ahead and leave the track you are under no obligation to hand a place back.

If that's the type of incidents you consider a free pass then no wonder you think he gets away with a lot as you're finding perfectly legal moves illegal.

He had the apex after he hit Massa's car, so with Sainz it's alright to outbrake yourself and leave the track to complete the pass?


No he didn't, Massa was sleeping and Alonso jumped in and took it and Massa tried to close the door when he was already there..



And the move on Carlos was completed just before the braking zone...



So yes both perfectly fine as the rules stand so no wonder there was no penalty and it's got nothing to do with getting a free pass as you suggested.

Against Massa he put both cars completely off the track how was that even legal?

Against Sainz interesting that Alonso went off the track twice during the fight but we've seen how lenient they are at Austin. He was fully past Sainz before he went off the track but in a role reversal would not have Alonso been on the radio complaining like he always does having seen Sainz off the track?


I'm not the steward but the contact forced them both to straighten up momentarily so I'm guessing the stewards took it into account.

He may have moaned, he may not. I don't particularly care, I've covered my feelings on drivers whinging on the radio. Point is he was ahead.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 4:51 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
This is were Hamilton taps front wheels with Rosberg whereas Alonso hit the side of Hamilton's car and damaged his barge board.



Does the fact some damage occurrs automatically make a move illegal now?. Lewis coming through the field in Germany 2014 ringing any bells?. Were you up in arms when he was bouncing of cars left right and centre with no penalty. Sometimes contact occurs and it's ridiculous to think tyres are ok to hit but the floor isn't, as if they were bloody aiming in the first place.

Bizarre how badly you are taking that battle, everyone else seemed to love it.

Well he was trying to pass 3 cars at the time and they all got in one anothers way and contact was before the entry of the corner, he hit 1 car but bouncing about like a pin ball perhaps sounds better perhaps.

So one incident were a driver was not impeccable against multiple incidents for another driver, 2 in one race.


Yes that's the only incident in Hamilton's career he wasn't impeccable. :uhoh:

The point was not all contact should be penalized and I gave an example. Hard but fair racing is fine by me and the Lewis battle was great. I've already said the 2nd RoGro incident wasn't for me.

In recent years, I'm just flagging up drivers that do things repeatedly.


Problem is you're flagging up perfectly legitimate battles so it's neither surprising or unfair that he gets a "free pass". You're just winding yourself up for no reason again.

It's also not news that in the midfield you generally have to race for what you get rather than just cruise and collect and rely on the inherent speed of your car to get moves done so more incidents are more likely.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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