planetf1.com

Also I'd assume something along the lines of a motor spooling the turbo would have naturally appeared and having energy recovery to keep batteries charged to power it makes sense to keep weight down. F1 teams always like to find complicated untried ways to get an advantage, part of what I like about the sport!

Well it looks like Ross is not going to be browbeaten by the teams...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41986411

"The current engine is an incredible piece of engineering but it's not a great racing engine," he said. "It is very expensive, it doesn't make any noise, it has componentry that in order to control the number of uses is creating grid penalties that make a farce of F1, there are big differentials of performance between the competitors and we are never going to get anyone else to come in and make engines."

Couldn't agree more.

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Shoot999: "And anyone who puts a Y on the end of his name as a nickname should be punched in the face repeatedly."

I also agree, wholeheartedly. But a bit further in the article there's this:

The engines must be:

- less expensive to develop and produce

- simpler

- road-relevant and hybrid

- have a better sound

- fitted with some standard parts

-used by a driver at its full potential all of the time

which I'm less sure about. I really don't get why those who run the sport insist that anything in F1 has to be road relevant. Why? What is the benefit to the racing? It's a ridiculous obsession that serves absolutely no purpose. same with having to be hybrid. Whatever for?

I'm also a bit hesitant about the standard parts bit. Manufacturers should be free to develop their own concepts, not be saddled with ones which may not suit their design philosophy. I want an engine in a Ferrari to be a Ferrari engine, not some lovely individual love child of different manufacturers.

Finally, "used by a driver at its full potential all of the time" seems diametrically opposed to the obsession with reducing the number of units every year. If you want an engine you can push constantly, then I don't see how you can expect it to last several races at the same time. There's bound to be some nursing involved the longer the expected shelf life of the unit.

Never going to happen, even in Brazil Ferrari didn't fill the fuel tank which will probably have meant summer fuel saving needed. This under fueling has occurred throughout F1 leading to drivers not pushing the engine all of the time as it's quicker over a race distance to do this...

Exactly. That is how I feel about this 100%. It's not a racing engine.

I have a backwards reason for not wanting stupid amounts of noise.

Firstly, it is wasted energy. To think unregulated teams wouldn't come up with some way to harvest this wasted energy is madness.

My main reason though is, I'm only 31. I want to be watching F1 when I'm 81. In the year 2067, petrol engines will be long gone and we'll have almost silent electrical engines or some other leap we've not dreamt up yet. A steady decrease in volume might make that silent more palatable to the 81 year old me, who will be much less mobile and have more spare time than 31 year old me during which he'd like to watch a lot of F1. Preferably 365 races a season thanks to genetically modified engineers and drivers.

Now you're just talking NONSENSE. If that were the case (which is most certainly NOT) the top people within the sport wouldn't been calling for LOUDER ENGINES moving forward, and I'm not talking about the FIA. I hear caroline's is having an open-mic night soon.

I don't even think you believe that load of nonsense and just post to disagree with me. I mean the official press release announcing the proposed changes for 2021 even states that "THEY CAREFULLY LISTENED TO WHAT THE FANS THINK ABOUT THE CURRENT POWER UNITS".

You don't actually believe that the FIA would listen carefully to "a vocal minority" and implement changes to appease a select few, out of, oh, I dunno… literally several millions of fans? Do you?

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HAMILTON :: ALONSO :: VETTEL :: RAIKKONEN :: RICCIARDO :: VERSTAPPEN
BOTTAS :: MAGNUSSEN :: OCON :: SAINZ :: PEREZ :: VANDOORNE :: HULKENBERG
GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: ERICSON :: LECLERC :: STROLL :: SEROTKIN :: HARTLEY

The problem is that NO ONE knew what the new regulations and developments the teams were building around would produce. However, the minute they heard the new Units "roar" it became an issue. And in case anyone doesn't remember, Bernie Ecclestone made a significant stink about it, saying the new units sound terrible. Then it was Mallya come the first tests, and then again during races.

The biggest thing I think you guys are missing is the fact that I do like how the engines sound currently, but that doesn't mean they can't be louder to better communicate what the cars are doing. The experienced petrol head can gather far more information as to what the driver is doing and how the car is reacting to input, but that requires a certain decibel level that is not yet met by the current units. THEN ON TOP OF IT ALL, if you're states side, you've been contending with Leigh Diffey SHOUTING the entire damn time, and usually about nothing!

_________________
HAMILTON :: ALONSO :: VETTEL :: RAIKKONEN :: RICCIARDO :: VERSTAPPEN
BOTTAS :: MAGNUSSEN :: OCON :: SAINZ :: PEREZ :: VANDOORNE :: HULKENBERG
GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: ERICSON :: LECLERC :: STROLL :: SEROTKIN :: HARTLEY

It's not wasted energy. Some things just produce sound. Nothing more, nothing less. The current Units are vastly louder than they were when they debuted in 2014 yet no more energy is being "wasted" in any capacity in order to create the sound. Just some modifications were made to increase volume whilst still improving the units year to year.

_________________
HAMILTON :: ALONSO :: VETTEL :: RAIKKONEN :: RICCIARDO :: VERSTAPPEN
BOTTAS :: MAGNUSSEN :: OCON :: SAINZ :: PEREZ :: VANDOORNE :: HULKENBERG
GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: ERICSON :: LECLERC :: STROLL :: SEROTKIN :: HARTLEY

This could be fixed by having a fixed fuel amount among the teams, but on the other hand it doesn't promote developing fuel efficient engines.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)

Ross seemed to be open to discussion with the teams about the various 'requirements'.

I'm pleased to see that he is emphasising that Liberty want a good RACE engine - ie. one that is designed to be good at the purpose of F1 racing.

Some of the teams pushed for the current engine for their own purposes outside of F1. I don't know if anyone has done research on whether the supposed 'road relevance' of the current engines can be proved to have been a suitably big factor in increasing sales of production cars? How much do the manufacturers just benefit from winning in F1 - or being in F1?

An F1 where there was exciting racing which entertained for most of the 2 or 3 hour program might make F1 a more attractive advertising platform and therefore Liberty could make more money because more companies would want to sponsor in F1?

I find it a weird regulation to have in place if the part isn't mandatory. I would be of the belief that only mandatory components should have limits on the number used

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I don't rely entirely on God

I rely on Prost



FA#14

I never suggested that an optional component be exempt from regulation. I find that limits on the number of optional components to be used is odd. If running 0 optional components is allowed by the regulations, then running any number of optional components should be allowed by the regulations. If there's no minimum then there should be no maximum IMO

Limit the number of mandatory components no problem - ICE, gearbox, tyres, etc. And if you're going to put a maximum limit on the number of a particular optional component to be used - then make it a mandatory component

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God

I rely on Prost



FA#14

I don't think it's mandatory they use a single drop of fuel during a race, so they should be able to use as much as they want?

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)

There has to be a minimum sample!

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God

I rely on Prost



FA#14

What we need is freedom for the teams to be different. There has to be some control of course, but why put a rigid template on it?
There is only a set amount of power available from a fixed or maximum volume of air and weight of fuel. Set that, and maybe some rule about nasty metals, and let them go. I do think though that the engine should be separate from the recovery and no recovered energy should be usable immediately. Other than that, I really dont care if the engine is steam 2stroke or atomic.

More common sense talk from Ross regarding solving the problem of grid penalties.

“If we go towards a different design of turbocharger, an homologated turbo, and it costs $2-3,000, why would you bother to even worry about limiting the number you use? It is not worth it in terms of the scale of the racing."

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Shoot999: "And anyone who puts a Y on the end of his name as a nickname should be punched in the face repeatedly."

Ah...understand a bit better. But I thought the gains were mostly due to the new combustion techniques they used. Thanks for the reply though.