planetf1.com

It is currently Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:12 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Haas F1
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 12374
Ferrari having three votes at the table. Can't see them using that leverage at all.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Haas F1
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:31 am
Posts: 96
This doesn’t get them around the rule regarding supplying more than 4 teams does it?
Example, could Ferrari say “Haas and Sauber don’t have Ferrari engines, theirs are Alfa and Maserati. We can provide for FI, Red Bull and Williams”?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Haas F1
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 7798
bradtheboywonder wrote:
This doesn’t get them around the rule regarding supplying more than 4 teams does it?
Example, could Ferrari say “Haas and Sauber don’t have Ferrari engines, theirs are Alfa and Maserati. We can provide for FI, Red Bull and Williams”?



I see it as the other way around. If Red Bull are without an engine 2019, the engine maker with the least 'customers' is compelled to supply them if no deal is available to them.

I can not see Ferrari wanting a customer report similar to the one Red Bull gave to Renault, so its, Ah, no we already supply 4 teams sorry.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Haas F1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:39 am
Posts: 726
moby wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
This doesn’t get them around the rule regarding supplying more than 4 teams does it?
Example, could Ferrari say “Haas and Sauber don’t have Ferrari engines, theirs are Alfa and Maserati. We can provide for FI, Red Bull and Williams”?



I see it as the other way around. If Red Bull are without an engine 2019, the engine maker with the least 'customers' is compelled to supply them if no deal is available to them.

I can not see Ferrari wanting a customer report similar to the one Red Bull gave to Renault, so its, Ah, no we already supply 4 teams sorry.



Red Bull won't be without an engine deal for 2019, they have links with Aston Martin and Honda.

Just a quick thought on Haas I am surprised that no blue-chip American company have come forward to sponsor them, I like to see them do well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Haas F1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3614
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ferrari having three votes at the table. Can't see them using that leverage at all.


I always assumed they had those votes anyway if they really wanted them. Much like Mercedes and their customers.

Always a deal to be done under the table regarding supply if you want something bad enough(Discount,Fuel,lubricant or Software upgrade etc..).

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Haas F1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 4551
Location: Michigan, USA
Lotus49 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ferrari having three votes at the table. Can't see them using that leverage at all.

I always assumed they had those votes anyway if they really wanted them. Much like Mercedes and their customers.

Always a deal to be done under the table regarding supply if you want something bad enough(Discount,Fuel,lubricant or Software upgrade etc..).

In that regard Renault has to have the worst bargaining power of any team, since their customers are both top teams with little need of discounts and strong agendas of their own. Both Ferrari customers and all the Merc customers are distinctly second-tier teams.

_________________
PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (3 wins, 12 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #3)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Haas F1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm
Posts: 3614
Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ferrari having three votes at the table. Can't see them using that leverage at all.

I always assumed they had those votes anyway if they really wanted them. Much like Mercedes and their customers.

Always a deal to be done under the table regarding supply if you want something bad enough(Discount,Fuel,lubricant or Software upgrade etc..).

In that regard Renault has to have the worst bargaining power of any team, since their customers are both top teams with little need of discounts and strong agendas of their own. Both Ferrari customers and all the Merc customers are distinctly second-tier teams.


Agree for their current situation anyway,absolutely.

I can remember the rumours about them dangling software packages to Williams and more often than not Lotus in 2012/13 to make them more competitive at certain times to take more points off Ferrari and McLaren though.

Not quite the same thing but just meaning I don't think they'd be much different if in another situation.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Haas F1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 7798
paulsf1fix wrote:
moby wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
This doesn’t get them around the rule regarding supplying more than 4 teams does it?
Example, could Ferrari say “Haas and Sauber don’t have Ferrari engines, theirs are Alfa and Maserati. We can provide for FI, Red Bull and Williams”?



I see it as the other way around. If Red Bull are without an engine 2019, the engine maker with the least 'customers' is compelled to supply them if no deal is available to them.

I can not see Ferrari wanting a customer report similar to the one Red Bull gave to Renault, so its, Ah, no we already supply 4 teams sorry.



Red Bull won't be without an engine deal for 2019, they have links with Aston Martin and Honda.

Just a quick thought on Haas I am surprised that no blue-chip American company have come forward to sponsor them, I like to see them do well.



Aston Martin don't have an engine. If they can do a deal with Honda all good, but will Honda want them?
They have just had a hassle with Mclaren and have seen the events with Renault, including Renault v STR so may tread carefully around committing themselves to RedBull. Indeed, Red Bull may not want Honda.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Haas F1
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:48 pm
Posts: 2559
Location: UK
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ferrari having three votes at the table. Can't see them using that leverage at all.

But neither Haas nor Sauber have a vote in the F1 Strategy Group. And Ferrari have their infamous veto anyway. Thankfully I don't see how this arrangement further strengthens their political power within the sport, I think it is just for marketing purposes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Haas F1
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 12374
j man wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Ferrari having three votes at the table. Can't see them using that leverage at all.

But neither Haas nor Sauber have a vote in the F1 Strategy Group. And Ferrari have their infamous veto anyway. Thankfully I don't see how this arrangement further strengthens their political power within the sport, I think it is just for marketing purposes.


They threaten to pull out and it seriously effects almost a third of the grid. Look at the extra power Having STR got Red Bull. Bernie bribed them to leave FOTA. With two teams the result of a pull out is more severe so the threat has to be taken more seriously.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Haas F1
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:31 am
Posts: 96
moby wrote:
bradtheboywonder wrote:
This doesn’t get them around the rule regarding supplying more than 4 teams does it?
Example, could Ferrari say “Haas and Sauber don’t have Ferrari engines, theirs are Alfa and Maserati. We can provide for FI, Red Bull and Williams”?



I see it as the other way around. If Red Bull are without an engine 2019, the engine maker with the least 'customers' is compelled to supply them if no deal is available to them.

I can not see Ferrari wanting a customer report similar to the one Red Bull gave to Renault, so its, Ah, no we already supply 4 teams sorry.


Yeah it would be in their best interest not to supply more teams. Didn’t see it that way. I was seeing it from an alternate world, where they might offer 4 teams Ferrari Engines, 4 teams Alfa Engines and 4 teams Maserati Engines* and have a monopoly on votes etc. But yeah, that would mean that they’re building 24 Engines from the same place, which would be a nightmare.

*Yes I’m aware my math resulted in more teams than there is currently


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Haas F1
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:31 am
Posts: 1630
Maybe Ferrari should spend more effort on winning a title than creating 10 baby-Ferraris.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Haas F1
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 21001
ReservoirDog wrote:
Maybe Ferrari should spend more effort on winning a title than creating 10 baby-Ferraris.

Having a junior team is arguably an effort to do just that


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SteveW and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group