planetf1.com

I don't think they put that much thought into it tbh.

Looks just like it does every year. Nonsensical. 10 very busy men probably spending 30 seconds to run through the first 10 that comes to mind. Perez beat the guy 5th on the list and doesn't even feature.

Because it shows that Bottas worsened?

I don't think that last part is true. Black_Flag11 quoted stats above which show that the average qualifying gap between Bottas and Hamilton was 0.368s, while for the Ferrari pair it was 0.276.

I can't help wondering what their basis for comparison is. Or how these people would define best and better.
I think Flash2k11 is right in saying they view Kimi more sympathetically than some fans might, which I believe to be because they know, or believe they know, a few things for certain that never feature in reporters' articles. Not bringing the favoured driver's points tally into trouble definitely being the top "fact", in my mind at least.

But the list itself is barely good enough for a giggle.

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Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi

My thoughts:

1) Lewis #1 is no surprise, and unlike some past years I believe he probably earned it this time. He wasn't 100% on it early in the year, but I believe he was likely the best driver over the course of the year.
2) Verstappen #2... I can see it. Seb had some pretty poor moments, but Max also did in my opinion (Hungary comes to mind). I could see agreeing with this one, though.
3) Seb #3, see above. I can see it.
4) Ricciardo in #4 is probably too high over the course of the season - there was a patch in the middle where he was poorer than at least one of the drivers below him.
5) Ocon is badly overrated, IMO. He had got close to Perez by the end of the season, but still wasn't consistently quicker than him. He doesn't deserve to be above Perez under any circumstances, and #5 is too high.
6) Alonso is too low. Unless you believe Vandoorne is a chump and the Macca is actually a decent car, he was driving extremely well, and deserves to be just below the top clump. I would put him in #4, personally, and I think his real performance might be higher.
7) Raikkonen doesn't belong in the top ten. Sorry, Kimi.
7) Sainz does belong, but I'd put him above Ocon. He was dominant in the Toro Rosso, scoring all their good results, and he was nearly on Hulk's pace right away after joining Renault, something that we've seen is very difficult in the past.
9) Hulk totally dominated Palmer, but Palmer is a scrub. Still, I think he does deserve a place in the top ten, and ninth is probably fair - I wouldn't have Kimi above him, but I would have one other driver who isn't on this list there (Perez).
10) Bottas in #10... Not sure. He certainly didn't do a worse job than Kimi for most of the season, and unlike Kimi he legitimately beat his teammate in at least a few races. However, no matter how good your teammate is, beating him in 'a few' races isn't amazing. He would probably stay where he is for me, with Kimi leaving and Perez coming in above him.

Perez is the real slight of the lot, clearly. He's certainly among the ten best drivers, and he didn't even make the list. That would be worrying if you're Perez.

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PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (3 wins, 12 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)

I am fine with the top 3. Lewis was the more consistent, seemed to find the pace whenever he really needed it, Verstappen also looked quite pacey all year, but made some mistakes, showed some rawness, and Vettel had a couple of costly regrettable moments, but looked fast as well.

I would rank Alonso ahead of Ricciardo, felt that he drove a flawless season whereas Ricciardo has sometimes looked way off the pace. Alonso's only wrongdoing was the way he bashed and moaned about Honda publicly, if not for that he would have made my top three.

Perez was definitely better than Ocon, and should be rarnked higher than him, although the Frenchman was really impressive in his first full season. Those two make up one of the most interesting driver lineups as far as I'm concerned.

Raikonnen should be nowhere near the top ten, and he certainly doesn't deserve to be ranked above Bottas. If those two were teammates, I have no doubt Bottas would handily beat him, based on the fact that his highs have been more impressive than Kimi's.

I would really flip Hulk and Sainz too, Hulk, as always was an excellent qualifier this year and I think he will continue to prove that even with Sainz on the team. Some of his race performances have left a bit to be desired though, but so has Sainz's. They both deserve to be in the top 10, but again, Hulk should be rated higher.

Ocon is so highly rated

If I had to vote my top10 would be

1. Hamilton
2. Vettel
3. MV
4. Ricciardo
5. Bottas
6. Kimi
7. Sainz
8. Hulk
9. Perez
10. Alonso

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM9-GK3MeLI

Alonso probably wouldn't have got votes from Ferrari or the red bull teams sadly.

Perez seems to have alienated so many of the top teams. I think he is a very good driver, he was appallingly treated at Mclaren. He should have been given a full two years at Mclaren, not dumped for the not so great Dane.

Quick point on the Alonso comment. He and Vandoorne actually drove different cars in quite a few races. Vandoorne was a true #2 driver and even had to give Alonso a tow during qualifying sessions. It's not fair to Vandoorne to compare the two of them as though they were in a real teammate battle.

They alternated all year, the problem with the new front wing advantage Alonso had for the Americas week was we had back to back races and Macca couldn't get the new part to Stoff for Mexico only a week later so we had back to back races Alonso had a FW advantage. Stoff had an engine advantage in the US though (And a few other races thanks to reliability with Alono's specs).

They gave each other tows in Q1 in Spa and Alonso got one in Q2 because Stoff had a penalty and in Italy a week later Alonso first gave Stoff a tow but it didn't work in the wet so he instead lifted on his way to the line in Q2 so he didn't knock Stoff out as Alonso had the penalty this time.

Perfectly fair and no different to how McLaren always operate with alternating parts if they can only bring one(Alonso odd and Stoff even). Seems a bit harsh to rule out the whole battle because US and Mexico were only a week apart.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Yet another list where Ricciardo's actual results are ignored in favour of some hypothetical Verstappen fantasy land.

It's going to be so funny when he ends his Red Bull career 3-0 vs Verstappen with people still convincing themselves the latter is a better driver.

Which patch was this?

Between Spain and Japan (middle 12 races) Ricciardo scored podiums in 9 races, took the same number of race wins a Vettel and outscored him in points. That's not even close to being off the pace.

The 3 races he failed to get a podium were Silverstone, where his car failed in qualifying and he started near the back (finishing 5th), Hungary, where his team mate crashed into him on the first lap, and in Monza where he took an engine penalty and finished 4th anyway.

Ocon was in his first full season in the series and new to the team yet was running Perez pretty close in the second half of the year. Perez probably lost some respect by racing his team mate harder than anyone else in the field.

Sainz caused some of the worst crashes in the first half of the season taking not only himself but other perfectly innocent others out of races. Canada was especially bad.

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{Insert clever sig line here}

I'm guessing but it could be qualifying Exediron was thinking of. He lost 9-2 in that period (GB excluded) while the rest of the battle was 4-4 (China excluded). He did seem to struggle a bit in getting his tyres in the right place over 1 lap during that period.

Agree he was good in the races though throughout the year with only his starts at a couple of them being an issue.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Dan vs Max in Qualifying by quarter

1st..3-2 to Dan
2nd..4-1 to Max
3rd..5-0 to Max
4th..3-2 to Dan

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Wasn't aware you scored points in qualifying

As GingerFurball and I already discussed in a different thread, the mid-year was when I felt Verstappen really was outperforming Ricciardo and not getting the results to show it. Yes, Ricciardo was on the podium all the time, but it was during this part of the year that Max was always retiring ahead of him. I don't think Verstappen was necessarily better at the start or end of the year (with a few exceptions), but my feeling at the time and now was that Ricciardo struggled for pace in the middle of the year and was lucky to get those results.


Yeah, that would about follow my impression as well. Verstappen was consistently faster in the middle of the year, results notwithstanding. And this definitely does not come from a Verstappen fan.

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PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (3 wins, 12 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)

You don't score points when your car is smoking by the side of the road, either. Verstappen was either ahead of Ricciardo or DNF'd for every single one of those mid-season podiums you mentioned except for Monaco.

But since points are all that's important, can we talk about how close Stroll ran Massa this year?

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PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (3 wins, 12 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)

Who was ahead in races? Ricciardo's weakest period compared to his team mate was mid season.

You don't but always being ahead when his car failed is what gave Max the narrative of usually being ahead while the 2 were running trouble free and obviously that influences not just what the team bosses think but the general impression on fans was the same.

I'm a Dan fan but its precisely that heavy quali defeat in the mid season that makes it so hard to argue Dan had the better season overall. If they only ever see you behind your team mate when you're both running there's not much you can say in defense.

If he'd managed to jump him a the start a few times and Max retired behind him it would have changed the picture quite a bit and the quali defeats mean less but he couldn't jump him and not only that but when he did outqualify him he himself got jumped in Russia,Bahrain and Japan which is basically half his quali victories overturned by T1.

Everything else was either very close or in favour of Dan but in Q3 and at the starts Max was clearly ahead I'm afraid and that set up the narrative of the season because it's a fact that Max was usually ahead of him.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

I take it you feel Kvyat is a better driver than Ricciardo?


I mean, even the fact that 2016 is compared as if it is a fair comparison is laughable. Clutching at straws at its best here.

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Go Vandoorne - Verstappen - Vettel!

For Ricciardo, the race that really concerned me was Singapore. In practice and quali, the red bull were faster than Mercedes.

But in the race, even when it dried up he was not competitive. Hamilton built big leads over him three times, once in the first stint and then after two safety car interuptions.

He had a gearbox issue during the race and even when the track dried he couldn't attack the kerbs like they could in quali in case they were still wet.

The ability to take the kerbs better was the only reason it was faster in the first place so if you remove that and include a gearbox problem you can see why he struggled a bit.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

What would YOUR list be then.?
Or do you not believe in 'lists'?

Believing is not the word, but I do look at them, so I suppose I have to admit to being a bit curious about them. I think I'm less interested in the team principals' list, because there's no insight into how they arrive at their lists. Forum members offering their thoughts are more interesting to me.

I was impressed by Ocon this year, and by my countryman Stoffel. Max is obviously a good driver who still has lots to learn, but whether I find he should be put ahead of Daniel, I simply wouldn't know. There's one thing I do agree with the TPs on, and that's the inclusion of Räikkönen in the top 10. He's easily in my top 5, but I am obviously biased in his favour.
Any list from me would probably raise a few more giggles here than the TPs' one did for me.

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Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi