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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:55 pm 
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But Sergey Zlobin, who more than a decade ago became the first Russian test driver with his Minardi role, said the idea of dead-end test jobs is an "incomprehensible stereotype". "In fact, Kvyat has received a good and highly paid job," Zlobin told Sportbox.

"Yes, he will be seen less on TV, but he becomes a member of this elite team and if one of the Ferrari drivers has problems, he will get the chance to race. I would say half the paddock dreams of such a job," he added.


https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/2352 ... at-ferrari

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:30 pm 
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The part in bold will be disturbing news for some.
;)

I wonder just what development drivers make? I see that according to F1today, Kvyat will be one of two development drivers and is not listed as the replacement driver, Giovinazzi is.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:33 pm 
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I've no idea how much Blake tbh, and I'm sure there's some hyperbole at play with the 'highly' but it jumped out at me because of the convo here about who's paying who for the privilege.

I read recently something about the quality of Ferrari's sim and the work that goes on at both factory and track during the weekend with the development drivers pretty much working non-stop in the sim when the cars aren't on track during the weekend so you can see why they would split duties between two.

I think Singapore was one weekend Leclerc or someone spent the best part of Friday night testing changes that were suggested from track side and it certainly worked that time.

It does sound like a proper full on gig these days each race weekend as well as just general development work so I'd guess their wage reflects it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:56 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
I've no idea how much Blake tbh, and I'm sure there's some hyperbole at play with the 'highly' but it jumped out at me because of the convo here about who's paying who for the privilege.

I don't think there's any hyperbole; even the lowest paid F1 driver is paid more than most executives, and I suspect a development driver is still very safely above the median salary, probably comfortably into six figures. A really well paid F1 driver is more in the range of 'absurdly overpaid' by any objective measure (not a dig at any of the drivers; all top sportsmen make ridiculous amounts of money, but at least they earn it more than top corporate figures).

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:41 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
I've no idea how much Blake tbh, and I'm sure there's some hyperbole at play with the 'highly' but it jumped out at me because of the convo here about who's paying who for the privilege.

I don't think there's any hyperbole; even the lowest paid F1 driver is paid more than most executives, and I suspect a development driver is still very safely above the median salary, probably comfortably into six figures. A really well paid F1 driver is more in the range of 'absurdly overpaid' by any objective measure (not a dig at any of the drivers; all top sportsmen make ridiculous amounts of money, but at least they earn it more than top corporate figures).


Sorry I just meant in F1 terms 'highly' paid might be a bit of hyperbole for a development role wage but I wasn't clear and I haven't a clue really if it is or isn't.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:56 am 
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Blake wrote:
The part in bold will be disturbing news for some.
;)

I wonder just what development drivers make? I see that according to F1today, Kvyat will be one of two development drivers and is not listed as the replacement driver, Giovinazzi is.

You yourself have just questioned the article with the mention of Giovinazzi, a Russian article bigging up Kvyat's signing perhaps?

It's interesting that the article mentions that some in the paddock see this as being a deathknell for his F1 career, do they just see him as another Luca Badoer, Marc Gene, Giancarlo Fisichella or Pedro de la Rosa perhaps?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:58 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
I've no idea how much Blake tbh, and I'm sure there's some hyperbole at play with the 'highly' but it jumped out at me because of the convo here about who's paying who for the privilege.

I read recently something about the quality of Ferrari's sim and the work that goes on at both factory and track during the weekend with the development drivers pretty much working non-stop in the sim when the cars aren't on track during the weekend so you can see why they would split duties between two.

I think Singapore was one weekend Leclerc or someone spent the best part of Friday night testing changes that were suggested from track side and it certainly worked that time.

It does sound like a proper full on gig these days each race weekend as well as just general development work so I'd guess their wage reflects it.

That was Giovinazzi.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:15 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
I've no idea how much Blake tbh, and I'm sure there's some hyperbole at play with the 'highly' but it jumped out at me because of the convo here about who's paying who for the privilege.

I read recently something about the quality of Ferrari's sim and the work that goes on at both factory and track during the weekend with the development drivers pretty much working non-stop in the sim when the cars aren't on track during the weekend so you can see why they would split duties between two.

I think Singapore was one weekend Leclerc or someone spent the best part of Friday night testing changes that were suggested from track side and it certainly worked that time.

It does sound like a proper full on gig these days each race weekend as well as just general development work so I'd guess their wage reflects it.

That was Giovinazzi.


:thumbup:

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:04 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
The part in bold will be disturbing news for some.
;)

I wonder just what development drivers make? I see that according to F1today, Kvyat will be one of two development drivers and is not listed as the replacement driver, Giovinazzi is.

You yourself have just questioned the article with the mention of Giovinazzi, a Russian article bigging up Kvyat's signing perhaps?

It's interesting that the article mentions that some in the paddock see this as being a deathknell for his F1 career, do they just see him as another Luca Badoer, Marc Gene, Giancarlo Fisichella or Pedro de la Rosa perhaps?


Yes, I pointed out that Giovinazzi is the reserve driver, so what is your point? I don't recall saying anything about Kyvat filling that role.

What I did was question your claim that Kvyat might be paying for his job... something you have chosen to ignore now that someone who might have a clue as to what development drivers get PAID commented on it.

BTW, do you think there might be some in your paddock who might NOT think that this is a "deathknell" on his F1 career? If...and I do mean IF... this is the end of his F1 career, it could be worse.. he is involved in the sport with the most historic team in the sport. Such a rough way to go.
;)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:33 am 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
The part in bold will be disturbing news for some.
;)

I wonder just what development drivers make? I see that according to F1today, Kvyat will be one of two development drivers and is not listed as the replacement driver, Giovinazzi is.

You yourself have just questioned the article with the mention of Giovinazzi, a Russian article bigging up Kvyat's signing perhaps?

It's interesting that the article mentions that some in the paddock see this as being a deathknell for his F1 career, do they just see him as another Luca Badoer, Marc Gene, Giancarlo Fisichella or Pedro de la Rosa perhaps?


Yes, I pointed out that Giovinazzi is the reserve driver, so what is your point? I don't recall saying anything about Kyvat filling that role.

What I did was question your claim that Kvyat might be paying for his job... something you have chosen to ignore now that someone who might have a clue as to what development drivers get PAID commented on it.

BTW, do you think there might be some in your paddock who might NOT think that this is a "deathknell" on his F1 career? If...and I do mean IF... this is the end of his F1 career, it could be worse.. he is involved in the sport with the most historic team in the sport. Such a rough way to go.
;)

I don't understand how you can pull someone up for saying that Kvyat might be paying it's not like I said it as a fact.

Kvyat is known to have sponsors and it is a fact that Gutierrez brought in sponsors to Ferrari when he filled a similar role to what Kvyat has been given, so Ferrari are open to such arrangements.

What 23 year old F1 racing driver wants to be a test driver for the rest of his career and not race anymore?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:52 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
The part in bold will be disturbing news for some.
;)

I wonder just what development drivers make? I see that according to F1today, Kvyat will be one of two development drivers and is not listed as the replacement driver, Giovinazzi is.

You yourself have just questioned the article with the mention of Giovinazzi, a Russian article bigging up Kvyat's signing perhaps?

It's interesting that the article mentions that some in the paddock see this as being a deathknell for his F1 career, do they just see him as another Luca Badoer, Marc Gene, Giancarlo Fisichella or Pedro de la Rosa perhaps?


Yes, I pointed out that Giovinazzi is the reserve driver, so what is your point? I don't recall saying anything about Kyvat filling that role.

What I did was question your claim that Kvyat might be paying for his job... something you have chosen to ignore now that someone who might have a clue as to what development drivers get PAID commented on it.

BTW, do you think there might be some in your paddock who might NOT think that this is a "deathknell" on his F1 career? If...and I do mean IF... this is the end of his F1 career, it could be worse.. he is involved in the sport with the most historic team in the sport. Such a rough way to go.
;)

I don't understand how you can pull someone up for saying that Kvyat might be paying it's not like I said it as a fact.

Kvyat is known to have sponsors and it is a fact that Gutierrez brought in sponsors to Ferrari when he filled a similar role to what Kvyat has been given, so Ferrari are open to such arrangements.

What 23 year old F1 racing driver wants to be a test driver for the rest of his career and not race anymore?


Poker, you just throw something out there without a bit of proof and expect all of us to believe it? You have no idea at all if Kvyat paid for his development driver role, and you base your "suggestion" on the fact that Movil became a sponsor for Ferrari when Guitierrez became a test driver/reserve driver for them. Many a driver has had patrons who have followed them and bestowed sponsorship money for the team their "guy" is a part of... that does not necessarily mean that they paid his way. You do not know if Guitierrez might have gotten the job, Movil or no Movil. Did Santander pay Ferrari to take on Alonso, or did they become a Ferrari sponsor because Alonso was a driver for them, or did it just make business sense?

pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The cynic in me says that like Gutierrez before him he is paying for that privilege, so I wouldn't be getting any hopes up that this is a prelude to a Ferrari seat.

Craig Scarborough wrote on Twitter that this is the usual way for Ferrari, to get information on their competitors (Red Bull in this case). Can’t say I’ve ever noticed it before but Vergne got a similar if not the same role a few years ago so maybe there’s some merit to that.

That's interesting, anyway either way they are simple using him.


What you certainly do NOT know is if someone paid Ferrari to hire on an experienced F1 driver to be one of their development drivers. Don't you think it is insulting to Kvyat to suggest that he, an experienced F1 driver, had to pay a team to give him a job???? Seriously? Prove that Kvyat paid for this Ferrari job and, as I said, I will be the first to apologize, until then, I just see it as stirring the bucket. Have no other teams ever hired experienced personnel from other teams for the purpose of performing a job they are quite qualified to handle? Or did they just "use" them too, or perhaps it is a Ferrari thing only? Again, Kvyat is an experienced driver who could well help Ferrari as a development driver without having to pay for his job, and yes, he may even have some Red Bull insight.... oh, the shame of it all! P.S. all of us who are employed are being "used" by our employers.

BTW, why ask me "What 23 year old F1 racing driver wants to be a test driver for the rest of his career and not race anymore?". I am quite sure that I never said anything to that effect. Just putting more "suggestions" out there? I certainly can see a young F1 driver out of a ride wanting to take a Ferrari development driver position in the hopes of one day again racing in F1 by staying involved in the sport. And if a ride does not present itself, being a development driver for a team like Ferrari is not a bad alternative! Perhaps you have a better idea of what he should be doing instead???
:uhoh:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:33 pm 
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To be fair, if you are going to plod around as a test driver for any of the teams, Ferrari are probably your best bet. It didn't do Massa any harm, and even Badoer got to have a joyride in a Ferrari F1 car on the back of years of loyal service. They tend to look after you in other racing series too if you do branch back into sportscars/whatever, far more than any other team in F1 in recent years that I can think of.

I'm all for Kyvat still being kept around F1, I think circumstance did for him far more than any particular lack of talent. Arguably promoted before his time, before being chopped down before his prime in favour of the latest young thing. I understand that all the RB boys know the game when they sign up for the program and the cash it brings, but out of all of them that got the chop, I think Kyvat got bounced out in the most unsavoury manner.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:27 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
To be fair, if you are going to plod around as a test driver for any of the teams, Ferrari are probably your best bet. It didn't do Massa any harm, and even Badoer got to have a joyride in a Ferrari F1 car on the back of years of loyal service. They tend to look after you in other racing series too if you do branch back into sportscars/whatever, far more than any other team in F1 in recent years that I can think of.

I'm all for Kyvat still being kept around F1, I think circumstance did for him far more than any particular lack of talent. Arguably promoted before his time, before being chopped down before his prime in favour of the latest young thing. I understand that all the RB boys know the game when they sign up for the program and the cash it brings, but out of all of them that got the chop, I think Kyvat got bounced out in the most unsavoury manner.

Massa was different he was in the Ferrari young driver program and was being groomed for a future at Ferrari similar to say what Leclerc is now, this is not the case with Kvyat, he's simply a test driver.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:45 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
The part in bold will be disturbing news for some.
;)

I wonder just what development drivers make? I see that according to F1today, Kvyat will be one of two development drivers and is not listed as the replacement driver, Giovinazzi is.

You yourself have just questioned the article with the mention of Giovinazzi, a Russian article bigging up Kvyat's signing perhaps?

It's interesting that the article mentions that some in the paddock see this as being a deathknell for his F1 career, do they just see him as another Luca Badoer, Marc Gene, Giancarlo Fisichella or Pedro de la Rosa perhaps?


Yes, I pointed out that Giovinazzi is the reserve driver, so what is your point? I don't recall saying anything about Kyvat filling that role.

What I did was question your claim that Kvyat might be paying for his job... something you have chosen to ignore now that someone who might have a clue as to what development drivers get PAID commented on it.

BTW, do you think there might be some in your paddock who might NOT think that this is a "deathknell" on his F1 career? If...and I do mean IF... this is the end of his F1 career, it could be worse.. he is involved in the sport with the most historic team in the sport. Such a rough way to go.
;)

I don't understand how you can pull someone up for saying that Kvyat might be paying it's not like I said it as a fact.

Kvyat is known to have sponsors and it is a fact that Gutierrez brought in sponsors to Ferrari when he filled a similar role to what Kvyat has been given, so Ferrari are open to such arrangements.

What 23 year old F1 racing driver wants to be a test driver for the rest of his career and not race anymore?


Poker, you just throw something out there without a bit of proof and expect all of us to believe it? You have no idea at all if Kvyat paid for his development driver role, and you base your "suggestion" on the fact that Movil became a sponsor for Ferrari when Guitierrez became a test driver/reserve driver for them. Many a driver has had patrons who have followed them and bestowed sponsorship money for the team their "guy" is a part of... that does not necessarily mean that they paid his way. You do not know if Guitierrez might have gotten the job, Movil or no Movil. Did Santander pay Ferrari to take on Alonso, or did they become a Ferrari sponsor because Alonso was a driver for them, or did it just make business sense?

pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
The cynic in me says that like Gutierrez before him he is paying for that privilege, so I wouldn't be getting any hopes up that this is a prelude to a Ferrari seat.

Craig Scarborough wrote on Twitter that this is the usual way for Ferrari, to get information on their competitors (Red Bull in this case). Can’t say I’ve ever noticed it before but Vergne got a similar if not the same role a few years ago so maybe there’s some merit to that.

That's interesting, anyway either way they are simple using him.


What you certainly do NOT know is if someone paid Ferrari to hire on an experienced F1 driver to be one of their development drivers. Don't you think it is insulting to Kvyat to suggest that he, an experienced F1 driver, had to pay a team to give him a job???? Seriously? Prove that Kvyat paid for this Ferrari job and, as I said, I will be the first to apologize, until then, I just see it as stirring the bucket. Have no other teams ever hired experienced personnel from other teams for the purpose of performing a job they are quite qualified to handle? Or did they just "use" them too, or perhaps it is a Ferrari thing only? Again, Kvyat is an experienced driver who could well help Ferrari as a development driver without having to pay for his job, and yes, he may even have some Red Bull insight.... oh, the shame of it all! P.S. all of us who are employed are being "used" by our employers.

BTW, why ask me "What 23 year old F1 racing driver wants to be a test driver for the rest of his career and not race anymore?". I am quite sure that I never said anything to that effect. Just putting more "suggestions" out there? I certainly can see a young F1 driver out of a ride wanting to take a Ferrari development driver position in the hopes of one day again racing in F1 by staying involved in the sport. And if a ride does not present itself, being a development driver for a team like Ferrari is not a bad alternative! Perhaps you have a better idea of what he should be doing instead???
:uhoh:

He could do FE, did not Vergne decide that was better than being a Ferrari test driver, it's you that seem to be saying what better job could Kvyat have?

My initial response to this being seen as good news for Kvyat and a road back to a F1 seat for him was simply I see it more as a dead end job in terms of a future F1 prospect with Ferrari, if he wants a race seat it changes nothing without him having sponsors.

Look at KMag his preference was to race in Indycars rather than be demoted to a McLaren F1 reserve driver and Vandoorne said he was not prepared to sit out another season as the McLaren F1 reserve driver, I don't really see it as the great gig you make it to be without the promise of a future F1 race seat.

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