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 Post subject: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:47 am 
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After Hamilton lost the race in Australia, a race he was winning easily, since then we have seen the emergence of the Ferrari as the fastest car, this coupled with Hamilton's indifferent form left me pondering going into Baku is Hamilton going to win a race this year because in terms of shear performance I couldn't see a win coming anytime soon, his best chance would be to get lucky.

As it happened in Baku, a race were he never looked like winning he got lucky and won the race, the significance of the win is that it maintains his record of having won a race in every year that he has competed in F1, in fact Hamilton has won a race in every year that he has competed in single seaters discounting 4 winter series races, a monkey off the back for the rest of the season.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:06 pm 
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I think a couple of relatively poor races doesn't signify an irreversible slump. He's mentioned in the article below that he's finding this year's Mercedes quite difficult to drive, so it could simply be that:

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/894936/1/mercedes-2018-f1-car-harder-drive-2017-diva-hamilton

wherein he mentions:

We definitely are there in the mix and we’ve not got a terrible car at all, by any means."

I'm a little surprised as you'd normally put money on Lewis being able to adapt to and drive round any issues, but by the same token it also means that once they get the hang of the car they'll unlock more from it, which is scary for everyone else as they are not exactly pedestrian at the moment. The way he pulled away from Kimi at the restart was pure Hamilton and shows that he's not lost anything.

Interesting point about the win-in-every-year stat. But, although I'm sure he's happy that box has been ticked, I doubt whether it would have preyed upon his mind enough to be a monkey on his back. He strikes me as a driver well able to handle that kind of pressure, and I strongly doubt whether he's even given a passing thought to the possibility he might not win at all this season. Not after three races (I'm obviously talking his mindset pre-Baku!).


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:02 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
After Hamilton lost the race in Australia, a race he was winning easily, since then we have seen the emergence of the Ferrari as the fastest car, this coupled with Hamilton's indifferent form left me pondering going into Baku is Hamilton going to win a race this year because in terms of shear performance I couldn't see a win coming anytime soon, his best chance would be to get lucky.

As it happened in Baku, a race were he never looked like winning he got lucky and won the race, the significance of the win is that it maintains his record of having won a race in every year that he has competed in F1, in fact Hamilton has won a race in every year that he has competed in single seaters discounting 4 winter series races, a monkey off the back for the rest of the season.


Personally I think he would have preferred winning in Australia than yesterday as performance wise it looks like he's in a slump and does not look like winning race anytime soon.

He could not keep up with Vettel and every time he tried he locked up until he flat spotted his tyre and was forced to pit early.

And only Kimi being Kimi allowed Hamilton win yesterday.


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:33 pm 
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I seriously doubt Hamilton was in any way worried about keeping the streak alive.


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:39 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
After Hamilton lost the race in Australia, a race he was winning easily, since then we have seen the emergence of the Ferrari as the fastest car, this coupled with Hamilton's indifferent form left me pondering going into Baku is Hamilton going to win a race this year because in terms of shear performance I couldn't see a win coming anytime soon, his best chance would be to get lucky.

As it happened in Baku, a race were he never looked like winning he got lucky and won the race, the significance of the win is that it maintains his record of having won a race in every year that he has competed in F1, in fact Hamilton has won a race in every year that he has competed in single seaters discounting 4 winter series races, a monkey off the back for the rest of the season.


Personally I think he would have preferred winning in Australia than yesterday as performance wise it looks like he's in a slump and does not look like winning race anytime soon.

He could not keep up with Vettel and every time he tried he locked up until he flat spotted his tyre and was forced to pit early.

And only Kimi being Kimi allowed Hamilton win yesterday.


You mean Kimi on Saturday to lock out the front row and give Vettel some protection?, I can understand Kimi to some degree in the race, he was never overtaking Hamilton.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:43 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
After Hamilton lost the race in Australia, a race he was winning easily, since then we have seen the emergence of the Ferrari as the fastest car, this coupled with Hamilton's indifferent form left me pondering going into Baku is Hamilton going to win a race this year because in terms of shear performance I couldn't see a win coming anytime soon, his best chance would be to get lucky.

As it happened in Baku, a race were he never looked like winning he got lucky and won the race, the significance of the win is that it maintains his record of having won a race in every year that he has competed in F1, in fact Hamilton has won a race in every year that he has competed in single seaters discounting 4 winter series races, a monkey off the back for the rest of the season.


Personally I think he would have preferred winning in Australia than yesterday as performance wise it looks like he's in a slump and does not look like winning race anytime soon.

He could not keep up with Vettel and every time he tried he locked up until he flat spotted his tyre and was forced to pit early.

And only Kimi being Kimi allowed Hamilton win yesterday.


You mean Kimi on Saturday to lock out the front row and give Vettel some protection?, I can understand Kimi to some degree in the race, he was never overtaking Hamilton.


Lol maybe thats what was on your mind, what I was referring to was Kimi not being able to keep up with Hamilton after the restart.

Also at no point did Vettel need Kimi to protect him in the race, Hamilton trying to keep up with Vettel was just having off track excursions at will.


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
After Hamilton lost the race in Australia, a race he was winning easily, since then we have seen the emergence of the Ferrari as the fastest car, this coupled with Hamilton's indifferent form left me pondering going into Baku is Hamilton going to win a race this year because in terms of shear performance I couldn't see a win coming anytime soon, his best chance would be to get lucky.

As it happened in Baku, a race were he never looked like winning he got lucky and won the race, the significance of the win is that it maintains his record of having won a race in every year that he has competed in F1, in fact Hamilton has won a race in every year that he has competed in single seaters discounting 4 winter series races, a monkey off the back for the rest of the season.


Personally I think he would have preferred winning in Australia than yesterday as performance wise it looks like he's in a slump and does not look like winning race anytime soon.

He could not keep up with Vettel and every time he tried he locked up until he flat spotted his tyre and was forced to pit early.

And only Kimi being Kimi allowed Hamilton win yesterday.


You mean Kimi on Saturday to lock out the front row and give Vettel some protection?, I can understand Kimi to some degree in the race, he was never overtaking Hamilton.


Lol maybe thats what was on your mind, what I was referring to was Kimi not being able to keep up with Hamilton after the restart.

Also at no point did Vettel need Kimi to protect him in the race, Hamilton trying to keep up with Vettel was just having off track excursions at will.


I didnt actually mean that in a bad way, i was asking a question because i didnt know whether you meant saturday or sunday. Wouldn't Ferrari and Vettel liked to lock out the front row? I would be disappointed, if Kimi was at the front then no collision with Ocon and if they go round turn 1 in 1st and 2nd they have more options.

Kimi was never overtaking Hamilton and defiantly not in a couple of laps, I can understand his mindset. I don't think Vettel needed protection pace wise but maybe with strategy .

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:51 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
The way he pulled away from Kimi at the restart was pure Hamilton and shows that he's not lost anything.


This was in part due to Kimi hitting the wall on the first lap once the SC went in

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13569 ... ed-late-on


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:55 pm 
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Posts: 23910
Rockie wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
After Hamilton lost the race in Australia, a race he was winning easily, since then we have seen the emergence of the Ferrari as the fastest car, this coupled with Hamilton's indifferent form left me pondering going into Baku is Hamilton going to win a race this year because in terms of shear performance I couldn't see a win coming anytime soon, his best chance would be to get lucky.

As it happened in Baku, a race were he never looked like winning he got lucky and won the race, the significance of the win is that it maintains his record of having won a race in every year that he has competed in F1, in fact Hamilton has won a race in every year that he has competed in single seaters discounting 4 winter series races, a monkey off the back for the rest of the season.


Personally I think he would have preferred winning in Australia than yesterday as performance wise it looks like he's in a slump and does not look like winning race anytime soon.

He could not keep up with Vettel and every time he tried he locked up until he flat spotted his tyre and was forced to pit early.

And only Kimi being Kimi allowed Hamilton win yesterday.


You mean Kimi on Saturday to lock out the front row and give Vettel some protection?, I can understand Kimi to some degree in the race, he was never overtaking Hamilton.


Lol maybe thats what was on your mind, what I was referring to was Kimi not being able to keep up with Hamilton after the restart.

Also at no point did Vettel need Kimi to protect him in the race, Hamilton trying to keep up with Vettel was just having off track excursions at will.

It seems Kimi hit the wall after the restart (no, I didn't see it, either) and felt lucky to even continue the race. I did wonder how Hamilton managed to pull out such a gap when the Ferrari should have been right on his tail. Rounds up an underwhelming weekend for Kimi

“On the first lap after the re-start, coming to the last part of the straight, I hit the inside wall at full speed, so I was pretty lucky that the front wheel didn’t go,” Raikkonen explained. “I was expecting it to go faster but I was lucky. 

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/894922/1/raikkonen-lucky-finish-after-too-many-close-calls-baku


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:56 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Zoue wrote:
The way he pulled away from Kimi at the restart was pure Hamilton and shows that he's not lost anything.


This was in part due to Kimi hitting the wall on the first lap once the SC went in

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13569 ... ed-late-on

didn't see this before I posted the same :lol:

Still, not Kimi's best race for sure


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Posts: 27945
Zoue wrote:
I think a couple of relatively poor races doesn't signify an irreversible slump. He's mentioned in the article below that he's finding this year's Mercedes quite difficult to drive, so it could simply be that:

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/894936/1/mercedes-2018-f1-car-harder-drive-2017-diva-hamilton

wherein he mentions:

We definitely are there in the mix and we’ve not got a terrible car at all, by any means."

I'm a little surprised as you'd normally put money on Lewis being able to adapt to and drive round any issues, but by the same token it also means that once they get the hang of the car they'll unlock more from it, which is scary for everyone else as they are not exactly pedestrian at the moment. The way he pulled away from Kimi at the restart was pure Hamilton and shows that he's not lost anything.

Interesting point about the win-in-every-year stat. But, although I'm sure he's happy that box has been ticked, I doubt whether it would have preyed upon his mind enough to be a monkey on his back. He strikes me as a driver well able to handle that kind of pressure, and I strongly doubt whether he's even given a passing thought to the possibility he might not win at all this season. Not after three races (I'm obviously talking his mindset pre-Baku!).

No it's my own view of him keeping up the record, I didn't say monkey off his back as such.

They obviously have at the moment a performance deficit to the Ferrari, regarding driving around problems well it's not like he's getting beat by Bottas, Hamilton struggling perhaps has a different standard to some other drivers that struggle?

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:30 pm 
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Posts: 27945
Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
After Hamilton lost the race in Australia, a race he was winning easily, since then we have seen the emergence of the Ferrari as the fastest car, this coupled with Hamilton's indifferent form left me pondering going into Baku is Hamilton going to win a race this year because in terms of shear performance I couldn't see a win coming anytime soon, his best chance would be to get lucky.

As it happened in Baku, a race were he never looked like winning he got lucky and won the race, the significance of the win is that it maintains his record of having won a race in every year that he has competed in F1, in fact Hamilton has won a race in every year that he has competed in single seaters discounting 4 winter series races, a monkey off the back for the rest of the season.


Personally I think he would have preferred winning in Australia than yesterday as performance wise it looks like he's in a slump and does not look like winning race anytime soon.

He could not keep up with Vettel and every time he tried he locked up until he flat spotted his tyre and was forced to pit early.

And only Kimi being Kimi allowed Hamilton win yesterday.

Yes indeed he would swap the win in Baku for Australia.

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2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:42 pm 
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Posts: 23910
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I think a couple of relatively poor races doesn't signify an irreversible slump. He's mentioned in the article below that he's finding this year's Mercedes quite difficult to drive, so it could simply be that:

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/894936/1/mercedes-2018-f1-car-harder-drive-2017-diva-hamilton

wherein he mentions:

We definitely are there in the mix and we’ve not got a terrible car at all, by any means."

I'm a little surprised as you'd normally put money on Lewis being able to adapt to and drive round any issues, but by the same token it also means that once they get the hang of the car they'll unlock more from it, which is scary for everyone else as they are not exactly pedestrian at the moment. The way he pulled away from Kimi at the restart was pure Hamilton and shows that he's not lost anything.

Interesting point about the win-in-every-year stat. But, although I'm sure he's happy that box has been ticked, I doubt whether it would have preyed upon his mind enough to be a monkey on his back. He strikes me as a driver well able to handle that kind of pressure, and I strongly doubt whether he's even given a passing thought to the possibility he might not win at all this season. Not after three races (I'm obviously talking his mindset pre-Baku!).

No it's my own view of him keeping up the record, I didn't say monkey off his back as such.

They obviously have at the moment a performance deficit to the Ferrari, regarding driving around problems well it's not like he's getting beat by Bottas, Hamilton struggling perhaps has a different standard to some other drivers that struggle?

yeah that's why I wrote relatively poor. I don't think he's driving badly, but at the same time he doesn't look that comfortable and clearly he's not 100% on top of his game. That's why I think there's more to come from the Mercedes as once Hamilton gets his confidence back that has to be worth a couple of tenths at least.

Last year he absolutely whipped Bottas, but this year it's much closer between them so far and to be frank Bottas is unlucky not to be leading the WDC right now. If you judged them on this year alone you wouldn't say Lewis is miles better, but we know that is normally the case.

Regarding driving around problems, I'd say they do appear to be affecting him more than Bottas, for the simple reason that the gap between them has shrunk so far this year. It's noticeable because Lewis is normally a pretty adaptable driver. But I think it's a bit early to hit the panic button just yet . Even if there has been a bit of luck involved, he's still leading the WDC. Given the issues he's admitted to having this year, I'd say he has cause to be pleased that they haven't actually cost him anything so far


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:26 pm 
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Posts: 27945
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I think a couple of relatively poor races doesn't signify an irreversible slump. He's mentioned in the article below that he's finding this year's Mercedes quite difficult to drive, so it could simply be that:

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/894936/1/mercedes-2018-f1-car-harder-drive-2017-diva-hamilton

wherein he mentions:

We definitely are there in the mix and we’ve not got a terrible car at all, by any means."

I'm a little surprised as you'd normally put money on Lewis being able to adapt to and drive round any issues, but by the same token it also means that once they get the hang of the car they'll unlock more from it, which is scary for everyone else as they are not exactly pedestrian at the moment. The way he pulled away from Kimi at the restart was pure Hamilton and shows that he's not lost anything.

Interesting point about the win-in-every-year stat. But, although I'm sure he's happy that box has been ticked, I doubt whether it would have preyed upon his mind enough to be a monkey on his back. He strikes me as a driver well able to handle that kind of pressure, and I strongly doubt whether he's even given a passing thought to the possibility he might not win at all this season. Not after three races (I'm obviously talking his mindset pre-Baku!).

No it's my own view of him keeping up the record, I didn't say monkey off his back as such.

They obviously have at the moment a performance deficit to the Ferrari, regarding driving around problems well it's not like he's getting beat by Bottas, Hamilton struggling perhaps has a different standard to some other drivers that struggle?

yeah that's why I wrote relatively poor. I don't think he's driving badly, but at the same time he doesn't look that comfortable and clearly he's not 100% on top of his game. That's why I think there's more to come from the Mercedes as once Hamilton gets his confidence back that has to be worth a couple of tenths at least.

Last year he absolutely whipped Bottas, but this year it's much closer between them so far and to be frank Bottas is unlucky not to be leading the WDC right now. If you judged them on this year alone you wouldn't say Lewis is miles better, but we know that is normally the case.

Regarding driving around problems, I'd say they do appear to be affecting him more than Bottas, for the simple reason that the gap between them has shrunk so far this year. It's noticeable because Lewis is normally a pretty adaptable driver. But I think it's a bit early to hit the panic button just yet . Even if there has been a bit of luck involved, he's still leading the WDC. Given the issues he's admitted to having this year, I'd say he has cause to be pleased that they haven't actually cost him anything so far

You see that's the thing when Hamilton has issues he's still not getting beat by Bottas, when Bottas has issues Hamilton slaughters him, it's sort of strange we don't hear from Bottas, is he happy with the car?

Regarding Bottas being unlucky, Vettel has been more unlucky in terms of leading the WDC, if you could take out all the luck Vettel would have 2 wins, a second and a third, against Bottas 1 win, maybe 2 seconds and an 8th making Vettel 18 points clear.

The Baku race looked to be quite easy for Vettel whilst Hamilton was making mistakes like he was driving the wheels off the Mercedes to keep up with Vettel whilst Bottas just seemed to keep a steady pace a pace that much slower than Hamilton.

I wonder if part of the struggling for Hamilton is the inability to keep pace with the Ferrari whilst Bottas' main parameter might be his performance relative to Hamilton which has been good this year?

Regarding Bottas' level of performance I think last year was not really indicative of his performance, he was a last minute replacement after all, I did expect to see him perform better this season.

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:56 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I think a couple of relatively poor races doesn't signify an irreversible slump. He's mentioned in the article below that he's finding this year's Mercedes quite difficult to drive, so it could simply be that:

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/894936/1/mercedes-2018-f1-car-harder-drive-2017-diva-hamilton

wherein he mentions:

We definitely are there in the mix and we’ve not got a terrible car at all, by any means."

I'm a little surprised as you'd normally put money on Lewis being able to adapt to and drive round any issues, but by the same token it also means that once they get the hang of the car they'll unlock more from it, which is scary for everyone else as they are not exactly pedestrian at the moment. The way he pulled away from Kimi at the restart was pure Hamilton and shows that he's not lost anything.

Interesting point about the win-in-every-year stat. But, although I'm sure he's happy that box has been ticked, I doubt whether it would have preyed upon his mind enough to be a monkey on his back. He strikes me as a driver well able to handle that kind of pressure, and I strongly doubt whether he's even given a passing thought to the possibility he might not win at all this season. Not after three races (I'm obviously talking his mindset pre-Baku!).

No it's my own view of him keeping up the record, I didn't say monkey off his back as such.

They obviously have at the moment a performance deficit to the Ferrari, regarding driving around problems well it's not like he's getting beat by Bottas, Hamilton struggling perhaps has a different standard to some other drivers that struggle?

yeah that's why I wrote relatively poor. I don't think he's driving badly, but at the same time he doesn't look that comfortable and clearly he's not 100% on top of his game. That's why I think there's more to come from the Mercedes as once Hamilton gets his confidence back that has to be worth a couple of tenths at least.

Last year he absolutely whipped Bottas, but this year it's much closer between them so far and to be frank Bottas is unlucky not to be leading the WDC right now. If you judged them on this year alone you wouldn't say Lewis is miles better, but we know that is normally the case.

Regarding driving around problems, I'd say they do appear to be affecting him more than Bottas, for the simple reason that the gap between them has shrunk so far this year. It's noticeable because Lewis is normally a pretty adaptable driver. But I think it's a bit early to hit the panic button just yet . Even if there has been a bit of luck involved, he's still leading the WDC. Given the issues he's admitted to having this year, I'd say he has cause to be pleased that they haven't actually cost him anything so far

You see that's the thing when Hamilton has issues he's still not getting beat by Bottas, when Bottas has issues Hamilton slaughters him, it's sort of strange we don't hear from Bottas, is he happy with the car?

Regarding Bottas being unlucky, Vettel has been more unlucky in terms of leading the WDC, if you could take out all the luck Vettel would have 2 wins, a second and a third, against Bottas 1 win, maybe 2 seconds and an 8th making Vettel 18 points clear.

The Baku race looked to be quite easy for Vettel whilst Hamilton was making mistakes like he was driving the wheels off the Mercedes to keep up with Vettel whilst Bottas just seemed to keep a steady pace a pace that much slower than Hamilton.

I wonder if part of the struggling for Hamilton is the inability to keep pace with the Ferrari whilst Bottas' main parameter might be his performance relative to Hamilton which has been good this year?

Regarding Bottas' level of performance I think last year was not really indicative of his performance, he was a last minute replacement after all, I did expect to see him perform better this season.

wait - am i defending Hamilton and you're attacking him? :lol:

I guess if Hamilton is trying to overdrive the car then that might explain him either going off or going slower. I still don't think he's been poor, just relatively so by his standards. And Bottas has kept his nose clean and just gotten on with it. He's maximising his opportunities for the most part and that's all you can ask, really


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:06 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
You see that's the thing when Hamilton has issues he's still not getting beat by Bottas, when Bottas has issues Hamilton slaughters him, it's sort of strange we don't hear from Bottas, is he happy with the car?

He's not? Without Bottas' tyre letting go on him he'd be up 3-1 against Hamilton this season, with only Australia going Lewis' way. He is getting beaten by Bottas when he has issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:54 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I think a couple of relatively poor races doesn't signify an irreversible slump. He's mentioned in the article below that he's finding this year's Mercedes quite difficult to drive, so it could simply be that:

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/894936/1/mercedes-2018-f1-car-harder-drive-2017-diva-hamilton

wherein he mentions:

We definitely are there in the mix and we’ve not got a terrible car at all, by any means."

I'm a little surprised as you'd normally put money on Lewis being able to adapt to and drive round any issues, but by the same token it also means that once they get the hang of the car they'll unlock more from it, which is scary for everyone else as they are not exactly pedestrian at the moment. The way he pulled away from Kimi at the restart was pure Hamilton and shows that he's not lost anything.

Interesting point about the win-in-every-year stat. But, although I'm sure he's happy that box has been ticked, I doubt whether it would have preyed upon his mind enough to be a monkey on his back. He strikes me as a driver well able to handle that kind of pressure, and I strongly doubt whether he's even given a passing thought to the possibility he might not win at all this season. Not after three races (I'm obviously talking his mindset pre-Baku!).

No it's my own view of him keeping up the record, I didn't say monkey off his back as such.

They obviously have at the moment a performance deficit to the Ferrari, regarding driving around problems well it's not like he's getting beat by Bottas, Hamilton struggling perhaps has a different standard to some other drivers that struggle?

yeah that's why I wrote relatively poor. I don't think he's driving badly, but at the same time he doesn't look that comfortable and clearly he's not 100% on top of his game. That's why I think there's more to come from the Mercedes as once Hamilton gets his confidence back that has to be worth a couple of tenths at least.

Last year he absolutely whipped Bottas, but this year it's much closer between them so far and to be frank Bottas is unlucky not to be leading the WDC right now. If you judged them on this year alone you wouldn't say Lewis is miles better, but we know that is normally the case.

Regarding driving around problems, I'd say they do appear to be affecting him more than Bottas, for the simple reason that the gap between them has shrunk so far this year. It's noticeable because Lewis is normally a pretty adaptable driver. But I think it's a bit early to hit the panic button just yet . Even if there has been a bit of luck involved, he's still leading the WDC. Given the issues he's admitted to having this year, I'd say he has cause to be pleased that they haven't actually cost him anything so far

You see that's the thing when Hamilton has issues he's still not getting beat by Bottas, when Bottas has issues Hamilton slaughters him, it's sort of strange we don't hear from Bottas, is he happy with the car?

Regarding Bottas being unlucky, Vettel has been more unlucky in terms of leading the WDC, if you could take out all the luck Vettel would have 2 wins, a second and a third, against Bottas 1 win, maybe 2 seconds and an 8th making Vettel 18 points clear.

The Baku race looked to be quite easy for Vettel whilst Hamilton was making mistakes like he was driving the wheels off the Mercedes to keep up with Vettel whilst Bottas just seemed to keep a steady pace a pace that much slower than Hamilton.

I wonder if part of the struggling for Hamilton is the inability to keep pace with the Ferrari whilst Bottas' main parameter might be his performance relative to Hamilton which has been good this year?

Regarding Bottas' level of performance I think last year was not really indicative of his performance, he was a last minute replacement after all, I did expect to see him perform better this season.

wait - am i defending Hamilton and you're attacking him? :lol:

I guess if Hamilton is trying to overdrive the car then that might explain him either going off or going slower. I still don't think he's been poor, just relatively so by his standards. And Bottas has kept his nose clean and just gotten on with it. He's maximising his opportunities for the most part and that's all you can ask, really

Yeah that's basically what I'm saying, Hamilton finds it hard to accept the cars limitations and may tend to over drive it whilst Bottas in his cool Finnish way just accepts the car for what it is and does a consistent job.

Edit: I guess they are coming from different directions were Hamilton has been spoilt with a dominant car and for Bottas the Mercedes is the most competitive car he's driven in F1.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:56 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You see that's the thing when Hamilton has issues he's still not getting beat by Bottas, when Bottas has issues Hamilton slaughters him, it's sort of strange we don't hear from Bottas, is he happy with the car?

He's not? Without Bottas' tyre letting go on him he'd be up 3-1 against Hamilton this season, with only Australia going Lewis' way. He is getting beaten by Bottas when he has issues.

Hamilton didn't have a gearbox penalty in Bahrain and he wasn't leading Bottas in Baku before the SC?

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:12 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You see that's the thing when Hamilton has issues he's still not getting beat by Bottas, when Bottas has issues Hamilton slaughters him, it's sort of strange we don't hear from Bottas, is he happy with the car?

He's not? Without Bottas' tyre letting go on him he'd be up 3-1 against Hamilton this season, with only Australia going Lewis' way. He is getting beaten by Bottas when he has issues.

Hamilton didn't have a gearbox penalty in Bahrain and he wasn't leading Bottas in Baku before the SC?


He wasnt, but hamilton did qualify ahead of bottas and was surpassed by bottas in the race. (Yes via safety car) and random racing events but without the blow out bottas leads hamilton to the checkered flag. Hense beating hamilton.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:16 am 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You see that's the thing when Hamilton has issues he's still not getting beat by Bottas, when Bottas has issues Hamilton slaughters him, it's sort of strange we don't hear from Bottas, is he happy with the car?

He's not? Without Bottas' tyre letting go on him he'd be up 3-1 against Hamilton this season, with only Australia going Lewis' way. He is getting beaten by Bottas when he has issues.

Don't be such a prisoner of the moment. You're only talking about a handful of races to start the season. Although I do think that Bottas is good enough that Hamilton has to be on his game to come out on top in the matchup most of the time. That's what makes him the ideal teammate in a lot of ways.

Lewis is definitely having a sluggish start to the season. The fact that he's in the lead right now is quite strange. I think Ferrari may come to rue these last 2 races; where, by all accounts, Vettel was in complete control until circumstances changed unpredictably. I think Merc will make substantial gains to their car over the year and Ferrari will want to maximize this window of time here where they are clearly out in front.


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:36 am 
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Mayhem wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You see that's the thing when Hamilton has issues he's still not getting beat by Bottas, when Bottas has issues Hamilton slaughters him, it's sort of strange we don't hear from Bottas, is he happy with the car?

He's not? Without Bottas' tyre letting go on him he'd be up 3-1 against Hamilton this season, with only Australia going Lewis' way. He is getting beaten by Bottas when he has issues.

Hamilton didn't have a gearbox penalty in Bahrain and he wasn't leading Bottas in Baku before the SC?


He wasnt, but hamilton did qualify ahead of bottas and was surpassed by bottas in the race. (Yes via safety car) and random racing events but without the blow out bottas leads hamilton to the checkered flag. Hense beating hamilton.

Bottas was only in front because he had not changed his tyres do you consider he was also beating Vettel?

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 3:49 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
He's not? Without Bottas' tyre letting go on him he'd be up 3-1 against Hamilton this season, with only Australia going Lewis' way. He is getting beaten by Bottas when he has issues.

Hamilton didn't have a gearbox penalty in Bahrain and he wasn't leading Bottas in Baku before the SC?

Those would seem like perfect examples of Bottas beating Hamilton when he has issues (and Hamilton was not in fact leading when the SC came out, although he was marginally ahead of the safety car window).

You said that Hamilton is beating Bottas even when he has issues, and I'm saying that's not the case. Bottas was ahead in Bahrain when Hamilton had an issue, and only a tyre failure prevented him from winning in Baku. In one other race Bottas also beat Hamilton, despite neither having an issue. Technically, Hamilton has in fact only beaten Bottas this year when Bottas made a major mistake in qualifying.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 5:47 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You see that's the thing when Hamilton has issues he's still not getting beat by Bottas, when Bottas has issues Hamilton slaughters him, it's sort of strange we don't hear from Bottas, is he happy with the car?

He's not? Without Bottas' tyre letting go on him he'd be up 3-1 against Hamilton this season, with only Australia going Lewis' way. He is getting beaten by Bottas when he has issues.

Hamilton didn't have a gearbox penalty in Bahrain and he wasn't leading Bottas in Baku before the SC?


He wasnt, but hamilton did qualify ahead of bottas and was surpassed by bottas in the race. (Yes via safety car) and random racing events but without the blow out bottas leads hamilton to the checkered flag. Hense beating hamilton.

Bottas was only in front because he had not changed his tyres do you consider he was also beating Vettel?

I highlighted this in another thread. You can clearly see that Wolff feels Bottas was only fighting Vettel and Hamilton was out of contention:

Wolff told reporters after the race, “It’s just brutal what happened to Valtteri. I guess … that’s how motor racing should be. But going through the rollercoaster of emotions of a solid result, but not a win. Then Lewis’ race was damaged, virtually damaged, by the flat spot.”

“Then Valtteri kept going faster, and faster, and faster. To the point that, even with no Safety Car, we thought that there was a chance. Because he could leave on the ultrasoft and would’ve been able to try to hunt Sebastian down but obviously it all…”


https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/04/30/wolff-sending-mr-debris-out-improves-the-spectacle/


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 5:49 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
No it's my own view of him keeping up the record, I didn't say monkey off his back as such.

They obviously have at the moment a performance deficit to the Ferrari, regarding driving around problems well it's not like he's getting beat by Bottas, Hamilton struggling perhaps has a different standard to some other drivers that struggle?

yeah that's why I wrote relatively poor. I don't think he's driving badly, but at the same time he doesn't look that comfortable and clearly he's not 100% on top of his game. That's why I think there's more to come from the Mercedes as once Hamilton gets his confidence back that has to be worth a couple of tenths at least.

Last year he absolutely whipped Bottas, but this year it's much closer between them so far and to be frank Bottas is unlucky not to be leading the WDC right now. If you judged them on this year alone you wouldn't say Lewis is miles better, but we know that is normally the case.

Regarding driving around problems, I'd say they do appear to be affecting him more than Bottas, for the simple reason that the gap between them has shrunk so far this year. It's noticeable because Lewis is normally a pretty adaptable driver. But I think it's a bit early to hit the panic button just yet . Even if there has been a bit of luck involved, he's still leading the WDC. Given the issues he's admitted to having this year, I'd say he has cause to be pleased that they haven't actually cost him anything so far

You see that's the thing when Hamilton has issues he's still not getting beat by Bottas, when Bottas has issues Hamilton slaughters him, it's sort of strange we don't hear from Bottas, is he happy with the car?

Regarding Bottas being unlucky, Vettel has been more unlucky in terms of leading the WDC, if you could take out all the luck Vettel would have 2 wins, a second and a third, against Bottas 1 win, maybe 2 seconds and an 8th making Vettel 18 points clear.

The Baku race looked to be quite easy for Vettel whilst Hamilton was making mistakes like he was driving the wheels off the Mercedes to keep up with Vettel whilst Bottas just seemed to keep a steady pace a pace that much slower than Hamilton.

I wonder if part of the struggling for Hamilton is the inability to keep pace with the Ferrari whilst Bottas' main parameter might be his performance relative to Hamilton which has been good this year?

Regarding Bottas' level of performance I think last year was not really indicative of his performance, he was a last minute replacement after all, I did expect to see him perform better this season.

wait - am i defending Hamilton and you're attacking him? :lol:

I guess if Hamilton is trying to overdrive the car then that might explain him either going off or going slower. I still don't think he's been poor, just relatively so by his standards. And Bottas has kept his nose clean and just gotten on with it. He's maximising his opportunities for the most part and that's all you can ask, really

Yeah that's basically what I'm saying, Hamilton finds it hard to accept the cars limitations and may tend to over drive it whilst Bottas in his cool Finnish way just accepts the car for what it is and does a consistent job.

Edit: I guess they are coming from different directions were Hamilton has been spoilt with a dominant car and for Bottas the Mercedes is the most competitive car he's driven in F1.

yeah, that's fair enough in Baku, at least


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 9:41 am 
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I think this was one of the most undeserving win of the recent years. Nothing against the driver, it's just that anyone from Vettel, Bottas, Raikkonen or Perez drove a much better race than Hamilton this time. I think Lewis also knows this so I wouldn't say the monkey is completely out of the back, until Lewis actually wins a race on merit again.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:34 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Yes indeed he would swap the win in Baku for Australia.
There again, by ticking off Baku, he has won on every circuit with the exception of France (and with two races at Magny-Cours in 2007/08 and none in France since, he does have an opportunity to address that at Paul Ricard next month).

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:53 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
You see that's the thing when Hamilton has issues he's still not getting beat by Bottas, when Bottas has issues Hamilton slaughters him, it's sort of strange we don't hear from Bottas, is he happy with the car?

He's not? Without Bottas' tyre letting go on him he'd be up 3-1 against Hamilton this season, with only Australia going Lewis' way. He is getting beaten by Bottas when he has issues.

Hamilton didn't have a gearbox penalty in Bahrain and he wasn't leading Bottas in Baku before the SC?


He wasnt, but hamilton did qualify ahead of bottas and was surpassed by bottas in the race. (Yes via safety car) and random racing events but without the blow out bottas leads hamilton to the checkered flag. Hense beating hamilton.

Bottas was only in front because he had not changed his tyres do you consider he was also beating Vettel?


Correct, bottas managed his tires better and had a strategy that could challenge vettel for the win. A strategy that hamilton wasnt able to do this race...

No, i dont consider him ahead of vettel as without the sc bottas would have come out behind hamilton on fresh ultras. Bottas would have cought up to hamilton and would of had a go at him. Could he have passed him?? I believe so due to hamilton clearly struggling with grip all race and admitting himself he couldnt pass bottas for the race win when both were on fresh tires "i wouldn't have got passed him[bottas] in the end". Bottas was the better merc this race.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:38 am 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
He's not? Without Bottas' tyre letting go on him he'd be up 3-1 against Hamilton this season, with only Australia going Lewis' way. He is getting beaten by Bottas when he has issues.

Hamilton didn't have a gearbox penalty in Bahrain and he wasn't leading Bottas in Baku before the SC?

Those would seem like perfect examples of Bottas beating Hamilton when he has issues (and Hamilton was not in fact leading when the SC came out, although he was marginally ahead of the safety car window).

You said that Hamilton is beating Bottas even when he has issues, and I'm saying that's not the case. Bottas was ahead in Bahrain when Hamilton had an issue, and only a tyre failure prevented him from winning in Baku. In one other race Bottas also beat Hamilton, despite neither having an issue. Technically, Hamilton has in fact only beaten Bottas this year when Bottas made a major mistake in qualifying.

Without the SC Bottas would have pitted in third place, how can you ignore the SC that put Bottas in the lead?

Also I said Bottas is not beating Hamilton as in it's close, Bottas out qualified Hamilton by less than a tenth in Bahrain, that's a beating as compared to Hamilton out qualifying Bottas by half a second when Bottas has issues, this being my point, China also was by less than a tenth, let's see Bottas beat Hamilton when he himself has a gearbox penalty.

Bottas was struggling against Hamilton in Australia which may have contributed to his crash with him over driving, the crash very much masked his deficit.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:41 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
He's not? Without Bottas' tyre letting go on him he'd be up 3-1 against Hamilton this season, with only Australia going Lewis' way. He is getting beaten by Bottas when he has issues.

Hamilton didn't have a gearbox penalty in Bahrain and he wasn't leading Bottas in Baku before the SC?


He wasnt, but hamilton did qualify ahead of bottas and was surpassed by bottas in the race. (Yes via safety car) and random racing events but without the blow out bottas leads hamilton to the checkered flag. Hense beating hamilton.

Bottas was only in front because he had not changed his tyres do you consider he was also beating Vettel?

I highlighted this in another thread. You can clearly see that Wolff feels Bottas was only fighting Vettel and Hamilton was out of contention:

Wolff told reporters after the race, “It’s just brutal what happened to Valtteri. I guess … that’s how motor racing should be. But going through the rollercoaster of emotions of a solid result, but not a win. Then Lewis’ race was damaged, virtually damaged, by the flat spot.”

“Then Valtteri kept going faster, and faster, and faster. To the point that, even with no Safety Car, we thought that there was a chance. Because he could leave on the ultrasoft and would’ve been able to try to hunt Sebastian down but obviously it all…”


https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/04/30/wolff-sending-mr-debris-out-improves-the-spectacle/

All this without considering the warm up issues of the tyres and how few laps Bottas would have had, at the end of the race Hamilton was lapping slower on the ultras.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:43 am 
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froze wrote:
I think this was one of the most undeserving win of the recent years. Nothing against the driver, it's just that anyone from Vettel, Bottas, Raikkonen or Perez drove a much better race than Hamilton this time. I think Lewis also knows this so I wouldn't say the monkey is completely out of the back, until Lewis actually wins a race on merit again.

Yeah like Vettel won on merit in Australia?

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:46 am 
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tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yes indeed he would swap the win in Baku for Australia.
There again, by ticking off Baku, he has won on every circuit with the exception of France (and with two races at Magny-Cours in 2007/08 and none in France since, he does have an opportunity to address that at Paul Ricard next month).

Well it also makes up for Baku last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:52 am 
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Mayhem wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
He's not? Without Bottas' tyre letting go on him he'd be up 3-1 against Hamilton this season, with only Australia going Lewis' way. He is getting beaten by Bottas when he has issues.

Hamilton didn't have a gearbox penalty in Bahrain and he wasn't leading Bottas in Baku before the SC?


He wasnt, but hamilton did qualify ahead of bottas and was surpassed by bottas in the race. (Yes via safety car) and random racing events but without the blow out bottas leads hamilton to the checkered flag. Hense beating hamilton.

Bottas was only in front because he had not changed his tyres do you consider he was also beating Vettel?


Correct, bottas managed his tires better and had a strategy that could challenge vettel for the win. A strategy that hamilton wasnt able to do this race...

No, i dont consider him ahead of vettel as without the sc bottas would have come out behind hamilton on fresh ultras. Bottas would have cought up to hamilton and would of had a go at him. Could he have passed him?? I believe so due to hamilton clearly struggling with grip all race and admitting himself he couldnt pass bottas for the race win when both were on fresh tires "i wouldn't have got passed him[bottas] in the end". Bottas was the better merc this race.

Hamilton was doing 1-45.5s before the SC, after the SC the best he could do on the ultras was a 1-46.0, warm up issue?

Mercedes like other teams were suffering with warm up issues, Mercedes were probably the worse, but Bottas apparently was going to come flying out of the pits with no such issues and with 8/9 laps to go was going to win the race, first all he would have to catch Hamilton.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 2:39 am 
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Hamilton said in an interview that tyres are the problem for Mercedes and they have not unlocked its real performance. I think they will get over it. Bottas has done great so far though, very underrated driver. If I was Mercedes I will keep Bottas and pretty sure Hamilton will not retire after this year. Bernie or someone are suggesting he is loosing interest :?

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:17 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Hamilton didn't have a gearbox penalty in Bahrain and he wasn't leading Bottas in Baku before the SC?


He wasnt, but hamilton did qualify ahead of bottas and was surpassed by bottas in the race. (Yes via safety car) and random racing events but without the blow out bottas leads hamilton to the checkered flag. Hense beating hamilton.

Bottas was only in front because he had not changed his tyres do you consider he was also beating Vettel?

I highlighted this in another thread. You can clearly see that Wolff feels Bottas was only fighting Vettel and Hamilton was out of contention:

Wolff told reporters after the race, “It’s just brutal what happened to Valtteri. I guess … that’s how motor racing should be. But going through the rollercoaster of emotions of a solid result, but not a win. Then Lewis’ race was damaged, virtually damaged, by the flat spot.”

“Then Valtteri kept going faster, and faster, and faster. To the point that, even with no Safety Car, we thought that there was a chance. Because he could leave on the ultrasoft and would’ve been able to try to hunt Sebastian down but obviously it all…”


https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/04/30/wolff-sending-mr-debris-out-improves-the-spectacle/

All this without considering the warm up issues of the tyres and how few laps Bottas would have had, at the end of the race Hamilton was lapping slower on the ultras.

Yep, clearly Wolff doesn't have a clue what he's talking about with his own car and drivers


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:47 am 
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pokerman wrote:
froze wrote:
I think this was one of the most undeserving win of the recent years. Nothing against the driver, it's just that anyone from Vettel, Bottas, Raikkonen or Perez drove a much better race than Hamilton this time. I think Lewis also knows this so I wouldn't say the monkey is completely out of the back, until Lewis actually wins a race on merit again.

Yeah like Vettel won on merit in Australia?

Well, while there was also a safety car, Merc also made a tactical blunder or miscalculation so while safety car made it possible for Vettel to make the tactical move, I would say Merc ultimately lost it on their own mistake. Not Hamilton's fault of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Hamilton said in an interview that tyres are the problem for Mercedes and they have not unlocked its real performance. I think they will get over it. Bottas has done great so far though, very underrated driver. If I was Mercedes I will keep Bottas and pretty sure Hamilton will not retire after this year. Bernie or someone are suggesting he is loosing interest :?

I did expect Bottas to do better this year, I suppose whilst Hamilton drags out his new contract there is going to be speculation about him retiring?

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 2:55 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
He wasnt, but hamilton did qualify ahead of bottas and was surpassed by bottas in the race. (Yes via safety car) and random racing events but without the blow out bottas leads hamilton to the checkered flag. Hense beating hamilton.

Bottas was only in front because he had not changed his tyres do you consider he was also beating Vettel?

I highlighted this in another thread. You can clearly see that Wolff feels Bottas was only fighting Vettel and Hamilton was out of contention:

Wolff told reporters after the race, “It’s just brutal what happened to Valtteri. I guess … that’s how motor racing should be. But going through the rollercoaster of emotions of a solid result, but not a win. Then Lewis’ race was damaged, virtually damaged, by the flat spot.”

“Then Valtteri kept going faster, and faster, and faster. To the point that, even with no Safety Car, we thought that there was a chance. Because he could leave on the ultrasoft and would’ve been able to try to hunt Sebastian down but obviously it all…”


https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/04/30/wolff-sending-mr-debris-out-improves-the-spectacle/

All this without considering the warm up issues of the tyres and how few laps Bottas would have had, at the end of the race Hamilton was lapping slower on the ultras.

Yep, clearly Wolff doesn't have a clue what he's talking about with his own car and drivers

It seems like Wolff is a good reference when it suits, some other times he is not too be believed?

Wolff also said they left Bottas out hoping for a safety car, now if Bottas had the pace at the end to win on ultras why leave it so late in the race to pit him, the earlier he pits the more chance he has of winning.

He pitted 11 laps before the end of the race because of the SC, surely a winning strategy would be to pit more like 15 laps from the end like I said also taking into account the warm up issues with the tyres.

Now going by what actually happened the second version is what took place, the version of Bottas would have won anyway doesn't fit with the Mercedes strategy, so Wolff is just blowing smoke.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 2:58 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Bottas was only in front because he had not changed his tyres do you consider he was also beating Vettel?

I highlighted this in another thread. You can clearly see that Wolff feels Bottas was only fighting Vettel and Hamilton was out of contention:

Wolff told reporters after the race, “It’s just brutal what happened to Valtteri. I guess … that’s how motor racing should be. But going through the rollercoaster of emotions of a solid result, but not a win. Then Lewis’ race was damaged, virtually damaged, by the flat spot.”

“Then Valtteri kept going faster, and faster, and faster. To the point that, even with no Safety Car, we thought that there was a chance. Because he could leave on the ultrasoft and would’ve been able to try to hunt Sebastian down but obviously it all…”


https://www.grandprix247.com/2018/04/30/wolff-sending-mr-debris-out-improves-the-spectacle/

All this without considering the warm up issues of the tyres and how few laps Bottas would have had, at the end of the race Hamilton was lapping slower on the ultras.

Yep, clearly Wolff doesn't have a clue what he's talking about with his own car and drivers

It seems like Wolff is a good reference when it suits, some other times he is not too be believed?

Wolff also said they left Bottas out hoping for a safety car, now if Bottas had the pace at the end to win on ultras why leave it so late in the race to pit him, the earlier he pits the more chance he has of winning.

He pitted 11 laps before the end of the race because of the SC, surely a winning strategy would be to pit more like 15 laps from the end like I said also taking into account the warm up issues with the tyres.

Now going by what actually happened the second version is what took place, the version of Bottas would have won anyway doesn't fit with the Mercedes strategy, so Wolff is just blowing smoke.
I don't think anyone's has said Bottas had the pace to win it outright, although there was maybe a small chance he could have challenged Vettel on faster tyres. In any event, he'd put himself in a better position than Hamilton.

But they waited for a SC because that gave them the best opportunity for the win and at Baku, the chances were reasonably high. As it turned out, they were right and Bottas had the win in his pocket before fate played a hand


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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:01 pm 
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froze wrote:
pokerman wrote:
froze wrote:
I think this was one of the most undeserving win of the recent years. Nothing against the driver, it's just that anyone from Vettel, Bottas, Raikkonen or Perez drove a much better race than Hamilton this time. I think Lewis also knows this so I wouldn't say the monkey is completely out of the back, until Lewis actually wins a race on merit again.

Yeah like Vettel won on merit in Australia?

Well, while there was also a safety car, Merc also made a tactical blunder or miscalculation so while safety car made it possible for Vettel to make the tactical move, I would say Merc ultimately lost it on their own mistake. Not Hamilton's fault of course.

What you fail to realise is that Kimi was beating Vettel before the VSC, was that a blunder by Ferrari on Kimi's behalf, was Vettel just plain lucky, might that be painful to admit?

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2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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 Post subject: Re: Monkey off the Back
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:22 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
froze wrote:
pokerman wrote:
froze wrote:
I think this was one of the most undeserving win of the recent years. Nothing against the driver, it's just that anyone from Vettel, Bottas, Raikkonen or Perez drove a much better race than Hamilton this time. I think Lewis also knows this so I wouldn't say the monkey is completely out of the back, until Lewis actually wins a race on merit again.

Yeah like Vettel won on merit in Australia?

Well, while there was also a safety car, Merc also made a tactical blunder or miscalculation so while safety car made it possible for Vettel to make the tactical move, I would say Merc ultimately lost it on their own mistake. Not Hamilton's fault of course.

What you fail to realise is that Kimi was beating Vettel before the VSC, was that a blunder by Ferrari on Kimi's behalf, was Vettel just plain lucky, might that be painful to admit?

why would it be painful? Vettel didn't have a great drive in Australia, particularly at the beginning. Kimi started strongly, but IMO had a poor second stint.

Not sure what any of this has to do with froze's statement on the win in Baku being undeserved?


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