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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
And this is from F1Today commentary:

'SAME BURN MARKS ON THE MCLAREN?
The McLaren MCL33 seems to have had the same black burn marks on the engine cover in one of their earlier runs today as they had last week. Last week they said it was because of a broken exhaust clip, but now the burn marks have returned. Are there bigger problems at McLaren? The British outfit has battery issues at the moment.'


It's just the same engine cover from the 1st test.

:lol:


It's actually true. This morning before it had done a lap.

Spoiler (click to show)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXlxqJsW0AAFMGT.jpg

I was laughing at the fact a professional reporting team had failed to miss the blindingly obvious! Creating a story out of nothing


Whoosh! :blush:

Ah, I'm with you now lol.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:30 pm 
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From F1Today commentary:

'LOSS OF HYDRAULIC PRESSURE AT MCLAREN
While the session has been halted, let's go back to the second red flag that Stoffel Vandoorne caused today. Seems McLaren suffered a loss of hydraulic pressure that time, after electrical issues in the morning.'

They're in a puddle of trouble!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:39 pm 
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mds wrote:
kleefton wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
BeOnEdge wrote:
Another red flag....

No prizes for who caused this one.

Vandoorne, turn 3
e 2013

Is there a possibility that 1 or 2 parts under the cover are still from Honda which they forgot to replace with the Renault's?



Lol

No but seriously. Does mclaren remember how to build a competitive car anymore? You can argue they havent done so since 2012 and even that car was far from being bullet proof. Man this is a defining year for them. They have to get it together soon.


Rewind to 2014 winter testing, RBR barely got laps on the board, emerge as Mercs closest contenders and by a huge distance the best Renault team.

This is not ideal, of course. But let's wait before judging shall we?


MDS

It seems you are a fan of MCL, some of us are and want them to do good, but even tho they had limited time due to weather and yes this is just testing, the way they handled their bussines with Honda created the expectation of them NOT being in this situation again. This does not look good no matter how much space we give them, other Renault teams are racking up laps with minimum problems, not MCL, this is all on them. If I was a board member at MCL I will not be a happy camper! Eric should be worried. This looks bad no matter the situation.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:43 pm 
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PRFAN wrote:
MDS

It seems you are a fan of MCL, some of us are and want them to do good, but even tho they had limited time due to weather and yes this is just testing, the way they handled their bussines with Honda created the expectation of them NOT being in this situation again. This does not look good no matter how much space we give them, other Renault teams are racking up laps with minimum problems, not MCL, this is all on them. If I was a board member at MCL I will not be a happy camper! Eric should be worried. This looks bad no matter the situation.


I'm not a McLaren fan - my sympathies are mostly towards drivers, and if I have to pick teams I'm going with the RBR teams.

That being said, the other Renault teams didn't have to do a complete PU integration, they have been able to work with the package for a few years and so they know how to work with them. As you say it doesn't look good, but people are acting now like this is the end of the world and all problems of the past years were as much their fault as Honda's. I don't think that's neither fair nor correct.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:46 pm 
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In other news...

Vettel has put in a fantastic performance in the Ferrari today. Consistent times and looking really good on the medium compound.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:02 pm 
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mds wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
MDS

It seems you are a fan of MCL, some of us are and want them to do good, but even tho they had limited time due to weather and yes this is just testing, the way they handled their bussines with Honda created the expectation of them NOT being in this situation again. This does not look good no matter how much space we give them, other Renault teams are racking up laps with minimum problems, not MCL, this is all on them. If I was a board member at MCL I will not be a happy camper! Eric should be worried. This looks bad no matter the situation.


I'm not a McLaren fan - my sympathies are mostly towards drivers, and if I have to pick teams I'm going with the RBR teams.

That being said, the other Renault teams didn't have to do a complete PU integration, they have been able to work with the package for a few years and so they know how to work with them. As you say it doesn't look good, but people are acting now like this is the end of the world and all problems of the past years were as much their fault as Honda's. I don't think that's neither fair nor correct.


True..

They do have to contend with integrating a new PU, I believe that, as some are making a bigger deal now, the same was done before, where Honda had to carry all the load of under performance, when some of that loadwas clearly on MCL shoulders, now it appears that, what was not evident before is now, and MCL are receiving the "rebound" and maybe even some are developing a new love for Honda, in seeing that maybe something was up.

It worries me that Honda has done no laps after lunch, so lets see, but even so, by the feel of things TR are gaining some fans while MCL are letting some down.

But yes, a bit too early to tell


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:02 pm 
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PRFAN wrote:
mds wrote:
kleefton wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
BeOnEdge wrote:
Another red flag....

No prizes for who caused this one.

Vandoorne, turn 3
e 2013

Is there a possibility that 1 or 2 parts under the cover are still from Honda which they forgot to replace with the Renault's?



Lol

No but seriously. Does mclaren remember how to build a competitive car anymore? You can argue they havent done so since 2012 and even that car was far from being bullet proof. Man this is a defining year for them. They have to get it together soon.


Rewind to 2014 winter testing, RBR barely got laps on the board, emerge as Mercs closest contenders and by a huge distance the best Renault team.

This is not ideal, of course. But let's wait before judging shall we?


MDS

It seems you are a fan of MCL, some of us are and want them to do good, but even tho they had limited time due to weather and yes this is just testing, the way they handled their bussines with Honda created the expectation of them NOT being in this situation again. This does not look good no matter how much space we give them, other Renault teams are racking up laps with minimum problems, not MCL, this is all on them. If I was a board member at MCL I will not be a happy camper! Eric should be worried. This looks bad no matter the situation.


This is pretty much the reverse of the last day of the 1st test with Red Bull tbf who had issues and limited running while McLaren did 150+ laps.

It's not good and it's multiple issues which is even more annoying but none of them are major as far as we know and Red Bull and Renault have had their issues too.

McLaren always seem to have some testing drama, before, during and now after Honda.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:14 pm 
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Oh my - Lets keep adding fuel to fire - Sirotking faster than Stroll in 3 step slower rubber!







Okey okey its just testing :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:07 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
mds wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Lol

No but seriously. Does mclaren remember how to build a competitive car anymore? You can argue they havent done so since 2012 and even that car was far from being bullet proof. Man this is a defining year for them. They have to get it together soon.


Rewind to 2014 winter testing, RBR barely got laps on the board, emerge as Mercs closest contenders and by a huge distance the best Renault team.

This is not ideal, of course. But let's wait before judging shall we?


MDS

It seems you are a fan of MCL, some of us are and want them to do good, but even tho they had limited time due to weather and yes this is just testing, the way they handled their bussines with Honda created the expectation of them NOT being in this situation again. This does not look good no matter how much space we give them, other Renault teams are racking up laps with minimum problems, not MCL, this is all on them. If I was a board member at MCL I will not be a happy camper! Eric should be worried. This looks bad no matter the situation.


This is pretty much the reverse of the last day of the 1st test with Red Bull tbf who had issues and limited running while McLaren did 150+ laps.

It's not good and it's multiple issues which is even more annoying but none of them are major as far as we know and Red Bull and Renault have had their issues too.

McLaren always seem to have some testing drama, before, during and now after Honda.

I'm just wondering how STR are so high up the speed traps, there is a theory going around that last year McLaren set the car up to be fast in the corners to help garner the belief that the car was one of the fastest on the track at further expense to the weak Honda engine, trying to attract sponsors for this year perhaps and what they could do with a much better engine?

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2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:07 pm 
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Toro Rosso had a brake related issue this afternoon

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:25 pm 
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mds wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
MDS

It seems you are a fan of MCL, some of us are and want them to do good, but even tho they had limited time due to weather and yes this is just testing, the way they handled their bussines with Honda created the expectation of them NOT being in this situation again. This does not look good no matter how much space we give them, other Renault teams are racking up laps with minimum problems, not MCL, this is all on them. If I was a board member at MCL I will not be a happy camper! Eric should be worried. This looks bad no matter the situation.


I'm not a McLaren fan - my sympathies are mostly towards drivers, and if I have to pick teams I'm going with the RBR teams.

That being said, the other Renault teams didn't have to do a complete PU integration, they have been able to work with the package for a few years and so they know how to work with them. As you say it doesn't look good, but people are acting now like this is the end of the world and all problems of the past years were as much their fault as Honda's. I don't think that's neither fair nor correct.


If we are going to use the power unit integration as an excuse then why does str seem to have integrated the honda power unit so seamlessly?
Im afraid thats not gonna fly with most people. Mclaren have no excuse if they arent good this year. Tbf they look pretty fast but if the car is only gonna run half of the time in testing they will undoubtedly be on the back foot to start the season.
And i dont think anyone is burying mclaren already. Just people are worried and have good reason to be.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:52 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
mds wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Lol

No but seriously. Does mclaren remember how to build a competitive car anymore? You can argue they havent done so since 2012 and even that car was far from being bullet proof. Man this is a defining year for them. They have to get it together soon.


Rewind to 2014 winter testing, RBR barely got laps on the board, emerge as Mercs closest contenders and by a huge distance the best Renault team.

This is not ideal, of course. But let's wait before judging shall we?


MDS

It seems you are a fan of MCL, some of us are and want them to do good, but even tho they had limited time due to weather and yes this is just testing, the way they handled their bussines with Honda created the expectation of them NOT being in this situation again. This does not look good no matter how much space we give them, other Renault teams are racking up laps with minimum problems, not MCL, this is all on them. If I was a board member at MCL I will not be a happy camper! Eric should be worried. This looks bad no matter the situation.


This is pretty much the reverse of the last day of the 1st test with Red Bull tbf who had issues and limited running while McLaren did 150+ laps.

It's not good and it's multiple issues which is even more annoying but none of them are major as far as we know and Red Bull and Renault have had their issues too.

McLaren always seem to have some testing drama, before, during and now after Honda.

I'm just wondering how STR are so high up the speed traps, there is a theory going around that last year McLaren set the car up to be fast in the corners to help garner the belief that the car was one of the fastest on the track at further expense to the weak Honda engine, trying to attract sponsors for this year perhaps and what they could do with a much better engine?


Same reason Sauber are higher than Ferrari sometimes or Manor with Mercedes. Less d/f means less drag. Their speed trap is quite high but the overall lap time is (or a least was last week) quite average which also points to less d/f.

McLaren set their car up for optimal performance like everyone else. The Honda was too far away to do what RB could do with Renault. If you took too much off then you can't work the tyres properly and you lose more away from the straights than you gain on them so it's pointless.

Think of what Ferrari did in Monza in response to hitting the limiter in Spa and not being able to pass Mercedes the week before. They then took too much off and couldn't work the tyres properly in Monza and fell behind even Red Bull.

McLaren could've made Honda look better in the speed trap figures but that doesn't actually make them any better and more importantly it would hurt overall lap time so what's the point in doing it?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:00 pm 
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Mclarens problem is obvious. They have cut holes in the bodywork and bugs are getting in. Paint it Red and White again and it will be fine.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:00 pm 
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Rubbish day for McLaren and Eric looked a bit sheepish on Sky Sports News snippet. Team is pretty quiet which is no good. Niggling issues are one thing but they didn't look quick at all today which is a bit of a kicker, I was hoping if Renault turned it up a bit we'd see some better days after that good last day in the first test but nope, a stinker all round.

Hopefully they can have a good last 3 days but it doesn't feel like it's going to happen.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
mds wrote:
Rewind to 2014 winter testing, RBR barely got laps on the board, emerge as Mercs closest contenders and by a huge distance the best Renault team.

This is not ideal, of course. But let's wait before judging shall we?


MDS

It seems you are a fan of MCL, some of us are and want them to do good, but even tho they had limited time due to weather and yes this is just testing, the way they handled their bussines with Honda created the expectation of them NOT being in this situation again. This does not look good no matter how much space we give them, other Renault teams are racking up laps with minimum problems, not MCL, this is all on them. If I was a board member at MCL I will not be a happy camper! Eric should be worried. This looks bad no matter the situation.


This is pretty much the reverse of the last day of the 1st test with Red Bull tbf who had issues and limited running while McLaren did 150+ laps.

It's not good and it's multiple issues which is even more annoying but none of them are major as far as we know and Red Bull and Renault have had their issues too.

McLaren always seem to have some testing drama, before, during and now after Honda.

I'm just wondering how STR are so high up the speed traps, there is a theory going around that last year McLaren set the car up to be fast in the corners to help garner the belief that the car was one of the fastest on the track at further expense to the weak Honda engine, trying to attract sponsors for this year perhaps and what they could do with a much better engine?


Same reason Sauber are higher than Ferrari sometimes or Manor with Mercedes. Less d/f means less drag. Their speed trap is quite high but the overall lap time is (or a least was last week) quite average which also points to less d/f.

McLaren set their car up for optimal performance like everyone else. The Honda was too far away to do what RB could do with Renault. If you took too much off then you can't work the tyres properly and you lose more away from the straights than you gain on them so it's pointless.

Think of what Ferrari did in Monza in response to hitting the limiter in Spa and not being able to pass Mercedes the week before. They then took too much off and couldn't work the tyres properly in Monza and fell behind even Red Bull.

McLaren could've made Honda look better in the speed trap figures but that doesn't actually make them any better and more importantly it would hurt overall lap time so what's the point in doing it?

Some good points but why the need for McLaren to be so much better in the corners, better than the top teams, did teams like Force India compete all season long with not being able to work the tyres properly?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:09 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
mds wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Lol

No but seriously. Does mclaren remember how to build a competitive car anymore? You can argue they havent done so since 2012 and even that car was far from being bullet proof. Man this is a defining year for them. They have to get it together soon.


Rewind to 2014 winter testing, RBR barely got laps on the board, emerge as Mercs closest contenders and by a huge distance the best Renault team.

This is not ideal, of course. But let's wait before judging shall we?


MDS

It seems you are a fan of MCL, some of us are and want them to do good, but even tho they had limited time due to weather and yes this is just testing, the way they handled their bussines with Honda created the expectation of them NOT being in this situation again. This does not look good no matter how much space we give them, other Renault teams are racking up laps with minimum problems, not MCL, this is all on them. If I was a board member at MCL I will not be a happy camper! Eric should be worried. This looks bad no matter the situation.


This is pretty much the reverse of the last day of the 1st test with Red Bull tbf who had issues and limited running while McLaren did 150+ laps.

It's not good and it's multiple issues which is even more annoying but none of them are major as far as we know and Red Bull and Renault have had their issues too.

McLaren always seem to have some testing drama, before, during and now after Honda.

I'm just wondering how STR are so high up the speed traps, there is a theory going around that last year McLaren set the car up to be fast in the corners to help garner the belief that the car was one of the fastest on the track at further expense to the weak Honda engine, trying to attract sponsors for this year perhaps and what they could do with a much better engine?


Well if Mclaren already decided they going to ditch honda after 2017 preseason testing then the dots are not so difficult to join.
Added to that it was mentioned Alonso also reported he was going to run the engine to failure even if it meant not finishing on the last lap.
Generally their attitude was maximum humiliation for honda perhaps so they can get out of contract or buy time with the board or both.
Its still perhaps early and we will have to wait till qualy to see how mclaren really performs. As mentioned by many there is nowhere to hide


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:19 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:

This is pretty much the reverse of the last day of the 1st test with Red Bull tbf who had issues and limited running while McLaren did 150+ laps.

It's not good and it's multiple issues which is even more annoying but none of them are major as far as we know and Red Bull and Renault have had their issues too.

McLaren always seem to have some testing drama, before, during and now after Honda.

I'm just wondering how STR are so high up the speed traps, there is a theory going around that last year McLaren set the car up to be fast in the corners to help garner the belief that the car was one of the fastest on the track at further expense to the weak Honda engine, trying to attract sponsors for this year perhaps and what they could do with a much better engine?


Same reason Sauber are higher than Ferrari sometimes or Manor with Mercedes. Less d/f means less drag. Their speed trap is quite high but the overall lap time is (or a least was last week) quite average which also points to less d/f.

McLaren set their car up for optimal performance like everyone else. The Honda was too far away to do what RB could do with Renault. If you took too much off then you can't work the tyres properly and you lose more away from the straights than you gain on them so it's pointless.

Think of what Ferrari did in Monza in response to hitting the limiter in Spa and not being able to pass Mercedes the week before. They then took too much off and couldn't work the tyres properly in Monza and fell behind even Red Bull.

McLaren could've made Honda look better in the speed trap figures but that doesn't actually make them any better and more importantly it would hurt overall lap time so what's the point in doing it?

Some good points but why the need for McLaren to be so much better in the corners, better than the top teams, did teams like Force India compete all season long with not being able to work the tyres properly?


They were only quicker than the top guys through a handful of corners across the year afaik. They weren't turning up with Monaco wings everywhere, they just didn't trim it to the bone as they didn't gain anything over all.

I've no idea what FI did tbh, I assume they too found their optimal levels for their car and ran at that level like everyone else.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:25 pm 
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McLaren test report. https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2018/t ... t-2-day-1/


Vandoorne wrote:
“Today was challenging because of the issues we had which interrupted our running for today. We had a few stoppages on track, and we’ve been working through each one to make sure we’re fully prepared for tomorrow.

“The kinds of issue we’ve had weren’t particularly serious, but have taken a relatively long time to fix, so we weren’t able to run as much as we planned. The conditions this afternoon were quite tricky due to the wind, so the running we did wasn’t so representative.

“We’re hopeful the issues have been fixed and we can have a more productive day tomorrow.”



Eric B wrote:
“Today wasn’t the day we had hoped for on track, but, despite this, we aren’t overly concerned about the issues that we’ve faced today.

“It’s obviously not the productive day we had planned, but the problems – a battery issue and a hydraulic leak – are the types of niggles that we almost hope and expect to face during testing, in order to prepare us properly for the season ahead.

“We are here to test, and today is what sometimes happens in testing. It’s not ideal, and we would have liked more track time, but we’re working on it, we’re learning from it, and we’ll return to the track tomorrow armed with more information.”

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:41 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:

This is pretty much the reverse of the last day of the 1st test with Red Bull tbf who had issues and limited running while McLaren did 150+ laps.

It's not good and it's multiple issues which is even more annoying but none of them are major as far as we know and Red Bull and Renault have had their issues too.

McLaren always seem to have some testing drama, before, during and now after Honda.

I'm just wondering how STR are so high up the speed traps, there is a theory going around that last year McLaren set the car up to be fast in the corners to help garner the belief that the car was one of the fastest on the track at further expense to the weak Honda engine, trying to attract sponsors for this year perhaps and what they could do with a much better engine?


Same reason Sauber are higher than Ferrari sometimes or Manor with Mercedes. Less d/f means less drag. Their speed trap is quite high but the overall lap time is (or a least was last week) quite average which also points to less d/f.

McLaren set their car up for optimal performance like everyone else. The Honda was too far away to do what RB could do with Renault. If you took too much off then you can't work the tyres properly and you lose more away from the straights than you gain on them so it's pointless.

Think of what Ferrari did in Monza in response to hitting the limiter in Spa and not being able to pass Mercedes the week before. They then took too much off and couldn't work the tyres properly in Monza and fell behind even Red Bull.

McLaren could've made Honda look better in the speed trap figures but that doesn't actually make them any better and more importantly it would hurt overall lap time so what's the point in doing it?

Some good points but why the need for McLaren to be so much better in the corners, better than the top teams, did teams like Force India compete all season long with not being able to work the tyres properly?


They were only quicker than the top guys through a handful of corners across the year afaik. They weren't turning up with Monaco wings everywhere, they just didn't trim it to the bone as they didn't gain anything over all.

I've no idea what FI did tbh, I assume they too found their optimal levels for their car and ran at that level like everyone else.

Still I find this very confusing, the acid test for the Honda engine was the poor top line speed, as Alonso would say GP2 engine as cars came past him on the straights, but STR don't seem to have a problem with top end speed.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:59 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I'm just wondering how STR are so high up the speed traps, there is a theory going around that last year McLaren set the car up to be fast in the corners to help garner the belief that the car was one of the fastest on the track at further expense to the weak Honda engine, trying to attract sponsors for this year perhaps and what they could do with a much better engine?


Same reason Sauber are higher than Ferrari sometimes or Manor with Mercedes. Less d/f means less drag. Their speed trap is quite high but the overall lap time is (or a least was last week) quite average which also points to less d/f.

McLaren set their car up for optimal performance like everyone else. The Honda was too far away to do what RB could do with Renault. If you took too much off then you can't work the tyres properly and you lose more away from the straights than you gain on them so it's pointless.

Think of what Ferrari did in Monza in response to hitting the limiter in Spa and not being able to pass Mercedes the week before. They then took too much off and couldn't work the tyres properly in Monza and fell behind even Red Bull.

McLaren could've made Honda look better in the speed trap figures but that doesn't actually make them any better and more importantly it would hurt overall lap time so what's the point in doing it?

Some good points but why the need for McLaren to be so much better in the corners, better than the top teams, did teams like Force India compete all season long with not being able to work the tyres properly?


They were only quicker than the top guys through a handful of corners across the year afaik. They weren't turning up with Monaco wings everywhere, they just didn't trim it to the bone as they didn't gain anything over all.

I've no idea what FI did tbh, I assume they too found their optimal levels for their car and ran at that level like everyone else.

Still I find this very confusing, the acid test for the Honda engine was the poor top line speed, as Alonso would say GP2 engine as cars came past him on the straights, but STR don't seem to have a problem with top end speed.


We're not drag racing. Top line speed isn't the acid test for engines unless you've got spec chassis's and fuel.

They set the car up for the best lap time, not to make Honda look better than what they were on the straights. If Honda had delivered they wouldn't be needing Monza wings everywhere in the first place. The better they get the less they'll need stripped off and now they're at a team that will bend to their will and one with less d/f to boot so that coupled with improvement over the winter, maybe a bump from fuel too and there you go.

I'd rather wait until we've seen the first race before drawing any conclusions though.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:37 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
mds wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
MDS

It seems you are a fan of MCL, some of us are and want them to do good, but even tho they had limited time due to weather and yes this is just testing, the way they handled their bussines with Honda created the expectation of them NOT being in this situation again. This does not look good no matter how much space we give them, other Renault teams are racking up laps with minimum problems, not MCL, this is all on them. If I was a board member at MCL I will not be a happy camper! Eric should be worried. This looks bad no matter the situation.


I'm not a McLaren fan - my sympathies are mostly towards drivers, and if I have to pick teams I'm going with the RBR teams.

That being said, the other Renault teams didn't have to do a complete PU integration, they have been able to work with the package for a few years and so they know how to work with them. As you say it doesn't look good, but people are acting now like this is the end of the world and all problems of the past years were as much their fault as Honda's. I don't think that's neither fair nor correct.


If we are going to use the power unit integration as an excuse then why does str seem to have integrated the honda power unit so seamlessly?


Maybe they are more ambitious and are trying to push the envelope more with regards to car design, and maybe STR are playing it safe, with the benefit of an easier start but maybe a slower car as a result.

Compare with RBR. Historically RBR have always had more issues in testing than teams using the same engine.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:45 pm 
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With everyone going so darned slow (probably at least 2-3 seconds off the ultimate pace), I doubt anything we're seeing is the real pecking order. I wonder when the teams are going to finally start pushing...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:35 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
I'm gonna lay down a hot take prediction for the order at the end of the day:

Ferrari 25
Mercedes 25
Red Bull 25
McLaren 6
Renault 18
Williams 18
Toro Rosso 12
Force India 25
Haas 10
Sauber 18

There. You heard it here first.

182 points, mostly spoiled by McLaren having a joke of a day. But if it was a Top Three prediction, I'd be golden! :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:56 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
McLaren test report. https://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2018/t ... t-2-day-1/


Vandoorne wrote:
“Today was challenging because of the issues we had which interrupted our running for today. We had a few stoppages on track, and we’ve been working through each one to make sure we’re fully prepared for tomorrow.

“The kinds of issue we’ve had weren’t particularly serious, but have taken a relatively long time to fix, so we weren’t able to run as much as we planned. The conditions this afternoon were quite tricky due to the wind, so the running we did wasn’t so representative.

“We’re hopeful the issues have been fixed and we can have a more productive day tomorrow.”



Eric B wrote:
“Today wasn’t the day we had hoped for on track, but, despite this, we aren’t overly concerned about the issues that we’ve faced today.

“It’s obviously not the productive day we had planned, but the problems – a battery issue and a hydraulic leak – are the types of niggles that we almost hope and expect to face during testing, in order to prepare us properly for the season ahead.

“We are here to test, and today is what sometimes happens in testing. It’s not ideal, and we would have liked more track time, but we’re working on it, we’re learning from it, and we’ll return to the track tomorrow armed with more information.”


That would've sounded more justifiable if this was HRT or another minnow team in it's first or second year in formula one. Not McLaren. Or maybe they've just completely forgotten their legacy.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:55 am 
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mds wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mds wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
MDS

It seems you are a fan of MCL, some of us are and want them to do good, but even tho they had limited time due to weather and yes this is just testing, the way they handled their bussines with Honda created the expectation of them NOT being in this situation again. This does not look good no matter how much space we give them, other Renault teams are racking up laps with minimum problems, not MCL, this is all on them. If I was a board member at MCL I will not be a happy camper! Eric should be worried. This looks bad no matter the situation.


I'm not a McLaren fan - my sympathies are mostly towards drivers, and if I have to pick teams I'm going with the RBR teams.

That being said, the other Renault teams didn't have to do a complete PU integration, they have been able to work with the package for a few years and so they know how to work with them. As you say it doesn't look good, but people are acting now like this is the end of the world and all problems of the past years were as much their fault as Honda's. I don't think that's neither fair nor correct.


If we are going to use the power unit integration as an excuse then why does str seem to have integrated the honda power unit so seamlessly?


Maybe they are more ambitious and are trying to push the envelope more with regards to car design, and maybe STR are playing it safe, with the benefit of an easier start but maybe a slower car as a result.

Compare with RBR. Historically RBR have always had more issues in testing than teams using the same engine.

Is that the F1 culture Erik keeps talking about that honda did not have?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:18 am 
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Wow Mercedes, Ferrari over 170 laps. They are going to be fast from day1 anyways other teams need these days to prepare well. RBR, Renault and Sauber also crossed 100 laps. Little surprising that the weather is better but the times are worse than last week.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:24 am 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Wow Mercedes, Ferrari over 170 laps. They are going to be fast from day1 anyways other teams need these days to prepare well. RBR, Renault and Sauber also crossed 100 laps. Little surprising that the weather is better but the times are worse than last week.


Yesterday being the 1st day, I'm sure the teams took it easy when it comes to posting faster times. Mileage is more important as of now than a fastest lap. 3rd & 4th days we'll really get a good picture of all the teams. McLaren's plight is already prominent enough for all of us to see.

I wonder if Honda were always so good but McLaren's packaging of the engine inside really messed things up. In other words, McLaren & Honda were really never compatible enough so as to speak.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:43 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
Wow Mercedes, Ferrari over 170 laps. They are going to be fast from day1 anyways other teams need these days to prepare well. RBR, Renault and Sauber also crossed 100 laps. Little surprising that the weather is better but the times are worse than last week.


Yesterday being the 1st day, I'm sure the teams took it easy when it comes to posting faster times. Mileage is more important as of now than a fastest lap. 3rd & 4th days we'll really get a good picture of all the teams. McLaren's plight is already prominent enough for all of us to see.

I wonder if Honda were always so good but McLaren's packaging of the engine inside really messed things up. In other words, McLaren & Honda were really never compatible enough so as to speak.


Mclaren have talked too much about how great they are. Here is their chance to back it up by finishing 7th and 8th or even worse 9th and 10th if Renault also end up ahead of them :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:40 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
I wonder if Honda were always so good but McLaren's packaging of the engine inside really messed things up.


Come on people, come on. Suddenly now all of what we've perviously learned over the years, e.g. of the Honda vibrating itself apart, the testing on the test bench only done with one cylinder instead of a complete engine, the MGU-H being fatally flawed in that it only lasted 2 races, etc etc, all of that now seems unimportant because yesterday McLaren had two issues?

People can be so fickle :uhoh:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:43 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I'm just wondering how STR are so high up the speed traps, there is a theory going around that last year McLaren set the car up to be fast in the corners to help garner the belief that the car was one of the fastest on the track at further expense to the weak Honda engine, trying to attract sponsors for this year perhaps and what they could do with a much better engine?


Same reason Sauber are higher than Ferrari sometimes or Manor with Mercedes. Less d/f means less drag. Their speed trap is quite high but the overall lap time is (or a least was last week) quite average which also points to less d/f.

McLaren set their car up for optimal performance like everyone else. The Honda was too far away to do what RB could do with Renault. If you took too much off then you can't work the tyres properly and you lose more away from the straights than you gain on them so it's pointless.

Think of what Ferrari did in Monza in response to hitting the limiter in Spa and not being able to pass Mercedes the week before. They then took too much off and couldn't work the tyres properly in Monza and fell behind even Red Bull.

McLaren could've made Honda look better in the speed trap figures but that doesn't actually make them any better and more importantly it would hurt overall lap time so what's the point in doing it?

Some good points but why the need for McLaren to be so much better in the corners, better than the top teams, did teams like Force India compete all season long with not being able to work the tyres properly?


They were only quicker than the top guys through a handful of corners across the year afaik. They weren't turning up with Monaco wings everywhere, they just didn't trim it to the bone as they didn't gain anything over all.

I've no idea what FI did tbh, I assume they too found their optimal levels for their car and ran at that level like everyone else.

Still I find this very confusing, the acid test for the Honda engine was the poor top line speed, as Alonso would say GP2 engine as cars came past him on the straights, but STR don't seem to have a problem with top end speed.


Just a comment on this, the speed figures you're seeing are not top end speeds. They are at start-finish, the speeds at the end of the straight are quite a bit higher still.
Remember back when RBR had the V8's, they always posted good speeds on the early to middle of the straights (good corner exit, good low-end pull) but were often at the back when it came to actual closing speed at the end of straights. Just to indicate that both are not necessarily linked 1:1.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:56 am 
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https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/head ... ssues.html

Quote:
It was a tough day for McLaren and Red Bull as the pair lost vital track time on the opening day of the final pre-season testing when they encountered battery issues, which engine supplier Renault said were down to a bad batch.

...

"The issues that we've had I don't think have any relationship to the installation of the battery at all," said Renault chief technical officer Bob Bell.

...

"Those problems could have affected any of the three teams, so of course it's an issue for us but the reason we do this testing of those components before going to Melbourne is to find the ones that have got problems," he said. "It's the right thing to do, we have found some that are not fit for purpose and that's great.


So there you have it. Faulty units from Renault, not down to installation, also affected RBR.

See, this is why people shouldn't rush to conclusions, and shouldn't just throw everything what we've learned in the past few years aside just become some other problems arise just now.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:17 am 
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mds wrote:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2018/3/renault-explains-mclaren-and-red-bull-battery-issues.html

Quote:
It was a tough day for McLaren and Red Bull as the pair lost vital track time on the opening day of the final pre-season testing when they encountered battery issues, which engine supplier Renault said were down to a bad batch.

...

"The issues that we've had I don't think have any relationship to the installation of the battery at all," said Renault chief technical officer Bob Bell.

...

"Those problems could have affected any of the three teams, so of course it's an issue for us but the reason we do this testing of those components before going to Melbourne is to find the ones that have got problems," he said. "It's the right thing to do, we have found some that are not fit for purpose and that's great.


So there you have it. Faulty units from Renault, not down to installation, also affected RBR.

See, this is why people shouldn't rush to conclusions, and shouldn't just throw everything what we've learned in the past few years aside just become some other problems arise just now.


I just put a generic statement as there are still 3 days of testing remaining. But it's a damning coincidence even if Honda got their act finally together whilst parting ways with McLaren. If Honda comes up real good, don't know what number of bad luck incident would this be for Alonso as he's been in situations where had he stayed, the situation would've been better for him.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:35 am 
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Today's lineup for day 2 of the test:

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Source - http://www.imgur.com

Link for following today's test:
https://www.f1today.net/en/live/f1/236603/follow-live-the-second-day-of-the-second-test-in-2018

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:42 am 
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I feel that this will be McLaren's day!

:uhoh:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:49 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Today's lineup for day 2 of the test:

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Source - http://www.imgur.com

Link for following today's test:
https://www.f1today.net/en/live/f1/236603/follow-live-the-second-day-of-the-second-test-in-2018


Vettel will be driving again as Raikkonen is ill.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:16 am 
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Out of nowhere Ocon posts a 1:19:067, the fastest lap of the test so far. I thought Force India were a drag till now.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:17 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Out of nowhere Ocon posts a 1:19:067, the fastest lap of the test so far. I thought Force India were a drag till now.


Time deleted for exceeding track limits.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:27 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Out of nowhere Ocon posts a 1:19:067, the fastest lap of the test so far. I thought Force India were a drag till now.


Been said often already that nobody has done really meaningful times as of yet. Just an example, suppose Ferrari and Mercedes are able to do low 1:17's (which I suspect they can) then even a (now deleted) 1:19 doesn't mean much.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:40 am 
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mds wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Out of nowhere Ocon posts a 1:19:067, the fastest lap of the test so far. I thought Force India were a drag till now.


Been said often already that nobody has done really meaningful times as of yet. Just an example, suppose Ferrari and Mercedes are able to do low 1:17's (which I suspect they can) then even a (now deleted) 1:19 doesn't mean much.

I'd be very surprised if they couldn't. Last year's best time was an 18.6, supposedly the new track surface is potentially worth a second alone (although maybe the fact that it's only just been put down negates that).

You also have to assume there have been some big gains in lap time since the first test of last season.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:41 am 
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mds wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Out of nowhere Ocon posts a 1:19:067, the fastest lap of the test so far. I thought Force India were a drag till now.


Been said often already that nobody has done really meaningful times as of yet. Just an example, suppose Ferrari and Mercedes are able to do low 1:17's (which I suspect they can) then even a (now deleted) 1:19 doesn't mean much.

Assuming any of the top teams does a full qualifying simulation run on hypersofts, I think it could be even lower than 17s.

The best time last year was a 1:18.634 on supersofts. As a general rule of thumb F1 cars get about 1.5 seconds a year faster in pure development, so let's assume that would yield a 1:17.1 on pure development. Then you add in the tyre difference: the hypersoft is two steps softer than the supersoft, and all the tyres this year are believed to be a step softer than previous, so in effect the hypersoft should be three whole steps softer than the tyres Kimi used for that run. That's probably worth another 1-1.5 seconds, so I think a 1:15 something should be possible on pure pace if any of the top teams actually pushes for it.

Now, there's one variable here that we don't know, and that will make any predictions tricky: the new track surface. If it's slower, they might already be pushing. But new tracks tend to be faster rather than slower, so I'm expecting the opposite effect.

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