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How will McLaren compare to Toro Rosso in 2018
McLaren score greater than 75 points more 39%  39%  [ 26 ]
McLaren score 51 - 75 more 15%  15%  [ 10 ]
McLaren score 26 - 50 more 12%  12%  [ 8 ]
McLaren score 11 - 25 more 9%  9%  [ 6 ]
McLaren score -10 to 10 of Toro Rosso's score (roughly even) 7%  7%  [ 5 ]
McLaren score 11 - 25 less 7%  7%  [ 5 ]
McLaren score 26 - 50 less 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
McLaren score 51 - 75 less 4%  4%  [ 3 ]
McLaren score greater than 75 less 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 67
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:52 pm 
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Easy guys, its just one race, and it has not even started yet, let alone finished.

I have some 'schadenfreude' but Mclaren must feel embarrassed enough to look closely at things.

I like Honda, my first Honda was 1966, but I like Mclaren too. One of them is going to gut me this year.

Still, I now have Toro Rosso


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Alonso's opinion on it.. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13524 ... in-bahrain

Quote:
As well as the track layout not being ideal for the car, Alonso reckoned compromises needed to look after the tyres for the race had worked against the team in qualifying.

"This circuit requires a little bit different set-up concept for qualifying and the race distance, because here the rear degradation is huge," he added.

"With this type of circuit being stop and go, with heavy traction, corners and things like that, you need a very strong rear end.

"If you have a very strong rear end then you struggle in qualifying to rotate the car in the hairpins with the front end missing, so maybe we set up the car a little bit too much towards the race.

"But it is not an excuse. We didn't perform today and hopefully tomorrow we can see a little bit more performance.

"Last year, it was very poor qualifying and then we were fighting for 11th until the last couple of laps, so last year the race pace was much better than the qualifying pace.

"We expect tomorrow to be a step ahead on today's performance and the points are the target for both cars, so we see whether we can do it."

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:15 am 
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Toro Rosso do have a lot more experience than McLaren at switching engine suppliers, so maybe integration was easier for them.

From 2013 to 2017 they were switching from Ferrari to Renault and back every season.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:25 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Toro Rosso do have a lot more experience than McLaren at switching engine suppliers, so maybe integration was easier for them.

From 2013 to 2017 they were switching from Ferrari to Renault and back every season.


Toro Rosso are probably less stubborn as well to work with Honda in unison & to accept their guidelines & terms for engine (packaging)!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:33 am 
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I worry about the culture at the McLaren F1 team, and feel it has a negative impact. I tip Honda to finish in front of McLaren


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:39 pm 
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iano wrote:
I worry about the culture at the McLaren F1 team, and feel it has a negative impact. I tip Honda to finish in front of McLaren


I wouldn't. Toro Rosso has the worst pair of drivers on the grid.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:00 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
iano wrote:
I worry about the culture at the McLaren F1 team, and feel it has a negative impact. I tip Honda to finish in front of McLaren

I wouldn't. Toro Rosso has the worst pair of drivers on the grid.

They've got one of the worst drivers, yes. But I think Gasly is definitely not going to stay in that group with a little experience. He's been very impressive in everything he's done recently, and I expect he will be in F1 too once he gets up to speed a little.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:15 pm 
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toro rosso ought to be calling robert wickens this afternoon


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:24 pm 
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Gasly: now we can fight :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:03 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
iano wrote:
I worry about the culture at the McLaren F1 team, and feel it has a negative impact. I tip Honda to finish in front of McLaren


I wouldn't. Toro Rosso has the worst pair of drivers on the grid.


No! Gasly is way better than both Stroll and Sirotkin. And Hartley is not worse than Sirotkin either.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:22 pm 
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jimmyj wrote:
jrwb6e wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
One thing I didn't realise was McLaren extended their wheelbase this year, I think for the PU switch but could also just be because that's where it's going to maximise bargeboard area and reduce drag.

So in other words, the car is different enough that maybe you can't use this car to prove that the 2017 chassis was never good? 8)

Back on topic, I think the question now is whether Toro Rosso will score a point, not whether McLaren will outscore them.


The 12 points McLaren earned in Australia are most likely enough to beat Toro Rosso all year.


:thumbup: :thumbup:

After the very next race Toro Rosso: 12.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:14 pm 
How good is the Honda engine?

Last year in Bahrain, Daniel Ricciardo out qualified the fastest TR of Kyvat by 1.5 seconds when both using Renault engines. This year it was 0.950 gap Ricciardo to Gasly.

Could the Honda potentially be equal to or even slightly better than the Renault now? I foresee a Redbull-Honda in the near future.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:55 pm 
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For me there is still the 800 lb. gorilla in the room of RELIABILITY!!!! There are two races in the books this year and the Honda components have to last 6 races before they can be replaced without penalty.

Honda seems to have the pace for now and there may be new teams signing up for 2019. Right now they have the attention of many teams in the back half of the grid. More options for the have nots is always a good thing and I hope they are a viable option going forward.

Historically Honda has blown into F1 and MotoGP with great fanfare won some championships and exited when they proved what they wanted or when the headwinds made them second guess their commitment. This entry into F1 for them has proved problematic. I will welcome it if this all comes round right if they prove themselves a competent builder. The jury is still out for me and will be so till well into mid-season.


Last edited by Mort Canard on Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:01 pm 
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lamo wrote:
How good is the Honda engine?

Last year in Bahrain, Daniel Ricciardo out qualified the fastest TR of Kyvat by 1.5 seconds when both using Renault engines. This year it was 0.950 gap Ricciardo to Gasly.

Could the Honda potentially be equal to or even slightly better than the Renault now? I foresee a Redbull-Honda in the near future.


We'll know for sure when RB switch, they're not going to want to go backwards. I think in quali they aren't far away at all, peak power, full ers deployment and lean burn ICE, there isn't much scope for big gaps like we saw with McLaren when they didn't have either before 2017.

Race pace looked much better too, no obvious time they had to conserve harshly compared to rivals so I think they've closed that reported 4% gap to Renault but by how much is unclear, it's too hard to tell.

Reliability was good too but obviously one swallow and all that, but it was positive all around I felt.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
For me there is still the 800 lb. gorilla in the room of RELIABILITY!!!! There are two races in the books this year and the Honda components have to last 6 races before they can be replaced without penalty.

Honda seems to have the pace for now and there may be new teams signing up for 2019. Right now they have the attention of many teams in the back half of the grid. More options for the have nots is always a good thing and I hope they are a viable option going forward.

Historically Honda has blown into F1 and MotoGP with great fanfare won some championships and exited when they proved what they wanted or when the headwinds made them second guess their commitment. This entry into F1 for them has proved problematic. I will welcome it if this all comes round right if they prove themselves a competent builder. The jury is still out for me and will be so till well into mid-season.


Gasly used a new ICE, and both Toro Rosso drivers used a new TCs and MGU-H for Bahrain. So already eating into their allowance.

Obviously it doesn't mean anything was wrong with the first ones, but it seems a bit ominous to me.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:38 pm 
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TR Honda did make Mclaren look slow in Bahrain :lol: I wonder where the performance is coming. It could also be that Mclaren are just slow and the midfield is really tight so the performance will depend on track.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:24 pm 
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Herb wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
For me there is still the 800 lb. gorilla in the room of RELIABILITY!!!! There are two races in the books this year and the Honda components have to last 6 races before they can be replaced without penalty.

Honda seems to have the pace for now and there may be new teams signing up for 2019. Right now they have the attention of many teams in the back half of the grid. More options for the have nots is always a good thing and I hope they are a viable option going forward.

Historically Honda has blown into F1 and MotoGP with great fanfare won some championships and exited when they proved what they wanted or when the headwinds made them second guess their commitment. This entry into F1 for them has proved problematic. I will welcome it if this all comes round right if they prove themselves a competent builder. The jury is still out for me and will be so till well into mid-season.


Gasly used a new ICE, and both Toro Rosso drivers used a new TCs and MGU-H for Bahrain. So already eating into their allowance.

Obviously it doesn't mean anything was wrong with the first ones, but it seems a bit ominous to me.


Well it depends what their strategy is. It seems Honda are giving the 3 pu limit the middle finger. And that should not be a surprise. STR and honda partnership was always a strategic one for RBR. And isnt this what we were asking for when they were with mclaren and they did that last year too with many specs. Many of us thought STR will be plum last. I did not think this thread would have gone any longer past Australia but I guess it's testament to how well their strategy is working regardless of how many pu changes they make. Compliment for STR to compare to McLaren, insult the other way around.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:46 pm 
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year 2 on the original pu honda developed. they and mclaren should have stuck with this pu from the start


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:01 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
year 2 on the original pu honda developed. they and mclaren should have stuck with this pu from the start


What?

The first Honda engine (2015 & 2016) couldn't run any form of TJI or get the most out of the MGU-H because Honda stuck the compressor in the vee to meet McLaren's requested parameters.

The 2017 pu is a Mercedes knock off and this is year 2 of that one with Mario Illien's help from Bahrain last year after Honda's disastrous attempt at lean burn didn't work and vibrated the hell out of the car. I'd imagine they are now running the combustion concept of Mario's (And Red Bull) that Renault rejected in favour of their own but it's unclear as they've not admitted his involvement yet.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:37 am 
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Gap to Renault down to 12bhp. Question still remains about energy recovery in the race. Honda upgrade pencilled in for Canada worth 25-30bhp. Renault's own upgrade pencilled in for Spain but it's the same upgrade Red Bull have been waiting on since the start of 2017 (new hybrid system).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/43702834

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:53 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
year 2 on the original pu honda developed. they and mclaren should have stuck with this pu from the start


What?

The first Honda engine (2015 & 2016) couldn't run any form of TJI or get the most out of the MGU-H because Honda stuck the compressor in the vee to meet McLaren's requested parameters.

The 2017 pu is a Mercedes knock off and this is year 2 of that one with Mario Illien's help from Bahrain last year after Honda's disastrous attempt at lean burn didn't work and vibrated the hell out of the car. I'd imagine they are now running the combustion concept of Mario's (And Red Bull) that Renault rejected in favour of their own but it's unclear as they've not admitted his involvement yet.

So in the first 2 years Honda were compromised because of McLaren's design parameters?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:16 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
iano wrote:
I worry about the culture at the McLaren F1 team, and feel it has a negative impact. I tip Honda to finish in front of McLaren


I wouldn't. Toro Rosso has the worst pair of drivers on the grid.


How do you come to this conclusion? Both are pretty accomplished outside of F1.

For Gasly this main focus always seems to be how he couldn't win a race for a lengthy period of time but consecutively he won FR2.0, then second and top rookie in FR3.5, then a somewhat more modest rookie season in GP2 (still joint sixth on points and joint second best rookie), then won GP2 (just, but quite some misfortune on his side) and then missed out on winning Super Formula by half a point with the lesser engine and with the last round cancelled while he had all the momentum.

I feel like Gasly is greatly undervalued.

And Hartley is a 2-time WEC champion and Le Mans winner.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
year 2 on the original pu honda developed. they and mclaren should have stuck with this pu from the start


What?

The first Honda engine (2015 & 2016) couldn't run any form of TJI or get the most out of the MGU-H because Honda stuck the compressor in the vee to meet McLaren's requested parameters.

The 2017 pu is a Mercedes knock off and this is year 2 of that one with Mario Illien's help from Bahrain last year after Honda's disastrous attempt at lean burn didn't work and vibrated the hell out of the car. I'd imagine they are now running the combustion concept of Mario's (And Red Bull) that Renault rejected in favour of their own but it's unclear as they've not admitted his involvement yet.



my understanding is the current pu was built, rejected and shelved, never raced. then brought back before last season. no, i am certainly not blaming mclaren for all of honda's problems, before someone goes there.

i am not a mclaren or honda fanatic. i can see f1 needs pu suppliers, so i hope honda can get it right this season. if they fail and quit, i would imagine that would give anyone looking at coming in 2021, even more trepidation about entering f1. i would like to see someone in the vw group enter 2021 too. maybe even a ford/cosworth


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:59 am 
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mds wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
iano wrote:
I worry about the culture at the McLaren F1 team, and feel it has a negative impact. I tip Honda to finish in front of McLaren


I wouldn't. Toro Rosso has the worst pair of drivers on the grid.


How do you come to this conclusion? Both are pretty accomplished outside of F1.

For Gasly this main focus always seems to be how he couldn't win a race for a lengthy period of time but consecutively he won FR2.0, then second and top rookie in FR3.5, then a somewhat more modest rookie season in GP2 (still joint sixth on points and joint second best rookie), then won GP2 (just, but quite some misfortune on his side) and then missed out on winning Super Formula by half a point with the lesser engine and with the last round cancelled while he had all the momentum.

I feel like Gasly is greatly undervalued.

And Hartley is a 2-time WEC champion and Le Mans winner.

Yeah Gasly is more accomplished than Stroll and Sirotkin for instance.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:24 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
year 2 on the original pu honda developed. they and mclaren should have stuck with this pu from the start


What?

The first Honda engine (2015 & 2016) couldn't run any form of TJI or get the most out of the MGU-H because Honda stuck the compressor in the vee to meet McLaren's requested parameters.

The 2017 pu is a Mercedes knock off and this is year 2 of that one with Mario Illien's help from Bahrain last year after Honda's disastrous attempt at lean burn didn't work and vibrated the hell out of the car. I'd imagine they are now running the combustion concept of Mario's (And Red Bull) that Renault rejected in favour of their own but it's unclear as they've not admitted his involvement yet.

So in the first 2 years Honda were compromised because of McLaren's design parameters?


They were compromised by their solution to meet those parameters yes. They could've gone down another route or told McLaren they needed more space. It's a works deal, they're supposed to work together after all.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:26 am 
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pc27b wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
year 2 on the original pu honda developed. they and mclaren should have stuck with this pu from the start


What?

The first Honda engine (2015 & 2016) couldn't run any form of TJI or get the most out of the MGU-H because Honda stuck the compressor in the vee to meet McLaren's requested parameters.

The 2017 pu is a Mercedes knock off and this is year 2 of that one with Mario Illien's help from Bahrain last year after Honda's disastrous attempt at lean burn didn't work and vibrated the hell out of the car. I'd imagine they are now running the combustion concept of Mario's (And Red Bull) that Renault rejected in favour of their own but it's unclear as they've not admitted his involvement yet.



my understanding is the current pu was built, rejected and shelved, never raced. then brought back before last season.
no, i am certainly not blaming mclaren for all of honda's problems, before someone goes there.

i am not a mclaren or honda fanatic. i can see f1 needs pu suppliers, so i hope honda can get it right this season. if they fail and quit, i would imagine that would give anyone looking at coming in 2021, even more trepidation about entering f1. i would like to see someone in the vw group enter 2021 too. maybe even a ford/cosworth


First I've heard of that and Honda have been pretty open, the most open Manufacturer by far. Where did you hear that?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:19 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
year 2 on the original pu honda developed. they and mclaren should have stuck with this pu from the start


What?

The first Honda engine (2015 & 2016) couldn't run any form of TJI or get the most out of the MGU-H because Honda stuck the compressor in the vee to meet McLaren's requested parameters.

The 2017 pu is a Mercedes knock off and this is year 2 of that one with Mario Illien's help from Bahrain last year after Honda's disastrous attempt at lean burn didn't work and vibrated the hell out of the car. I'd imagine they are now running the combustion concept of Mario's (And Red Bull) that Renault rejected in favour of their own but it's unclear as they've not admitted his involvement yet.

So in the first 2 years Honda were compromised because of McLaren's design parameters?


They were compromised by their solution to meet those parameters yes. They could've gone down another route or told McLaren they needed more space. It's a works deal, they're supposed to work together after all.


Then they would be accused of not having f1 culture. And how were those comments from mclaren as far aso working together.
McLaren went aggressive this year by their own admission. They probably did the same in previous years, but did they ever come out and say their design added to reliability and setbacks in bringing updates.
My point is Mclaren was no saint in the partnership.
In the Amazon series, they never made the 2017 shakedown due to the floor and some other parts not being ready. Did they ever say they could have had better testing if they had the car ready for the shakedown? Do you not think that compromised Honda especially given it was a new PU design?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:38 am 
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AravJ wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
year 2 on the original pu honda developed. they and mclaren should have stuck with this pu from the start


What?

The first Honda engine (2015 & 2016) couldn't run any form of TJI or get the most out of the MGU-H because Honda stuck the compressor in the vee to meet McLaren's requested parameters.

The 2017 pu is a Mercedes knock off and this is year 2 of that one with Mario Illien's help from Bahrain last year after Honda's disastrous attempt at lean burn didn't work and vibrated the hell out of the car. I'd imagine they are now running the combustion concept of Mario's (And Red Bull) that Renault rejected in favour of their own but it's unclear as they've not admitted his involvement yet.

So in the first 2 years Honda were compromised because of McLaren's design parameters?


They were compromised by their solution to meet those parameters yes. They could've gone down another route or told McLaren they needed more space. It's a works deal, they're supposed to work together after all.


Then they would be accused of not having f1 culture. And how were those comments from mclaren as far aso working together.
McLaren went aggressive this year by their own admission. They probably did the same in previous years, but did they ever come out and say their design added to reliability and setbacks in bringing updates.
My point is Mclaren was no saint in the partnership.
In the Amazon series, they never made the 2017 shakedown due to the floor and some other parts not being ready. Did they ever say they could have had better testing if they had the car ready for the shakedown? Do you not think that compromised Honda especially given it was a new PU design?


I do hold McLaren partially or fully responsible for lots of things in the disaster like the poor communication (partly), being another of the teams to prioritise aero over the engine too much like Ferrari and RB/Renault (fully) and the floor being late and cancelling the shakedown is another (fully) yeah, but it wouldn't have changed much.

This was too near testing, the delay wasn't that long and they found the oil tank issue amongst the holes in torque curve and vibrations from the combustion concept. None of which McLaren were responsible for and most of which took until Spain to fix and allegedly only fixed by McLaren's insistence on hiring Illien. Then we still had no full deployment from the ers.

Taking that step back in testing was the final straw I believe. Although if they'd managed to bring the full deployment from the mgu-h to Baku as they targeted instead of Monza I think they'd have got at least a podium, maybe even a win in that mad Baku race, and the good feeling for everyone from that may have saved the whole partnership but alas it wasn't meant to be.

I don't think anyone comes out of it shining fwiw.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:59 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
year 2 on the original pu honda developed. they and mclaren should have stuck with this pu from the start


What?

The first Honda engine (2015 & 2016) couldn't run any form of TJI or get the most out of the MGU-H because Honda stuck the compressor in the vee to meet McLaren's requested parameters.

The 2017 pu is a Mercedes knock off and this is year 2 of that one with Mario Illien's help from Bahrain last year after Honda's disastrous attempt at lean burn didn't work and vibrated the hell out of the car. I'd imagine they are now running the combustion concept of Mario's (And Red Bull) that Renault rejected in favour of their own but it's unclear as they've not admitted his involvement yet.

So in the first 2 years Honda were compromised because of McLaren's design parameters?


They were compromised by their solution to meet those parameters yes. They could've gone down another route or told McLaren they needed more space. It's a works deal, they're supposed to work together after all.

Fair enough, you can perhaps accuse Honda of being too soft or McLaren of being too assertive?

Interesting with no such restrictions placed upon Honda by STR just how well the partnership seems to be working.

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:09 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
year 2 on the original pu honda developed. they and mclaren should have stuck with this pu from the start


What?

The first Honda engine (2015 & 2016) couldn't run any form of TJI or get the most out of the MGU-H because Honda stuck the compressor in the vee to meet McLaren's requested parameters.

The 2017 pu is a Mercedes knock off and this is year 2 of that one with Mario Illien's help from Bahrain last year after Honda's disastrous attempt at lean burn didn't work and vibrated the hell out of the car. I'd imagine they are now running the combustion concept of Mario's (And Red Bull) that Renault rejected in favour of their own but it's unclear as they've not admitted his involvement yet.

So in the first 2 years Honda were compromised because of McLaren's design parameters?


They were compromised by their solution to meet those parameters yes. They could've gone down another route or told McLaren they needed more space. It's a works deal, they're supposed to work together after all.

Fair enough, you can perhaps accuse Honda of being too soft or McLaren of being too assertive?

Interesting with no such restrictions placed upon Honda by STR just how well the partnership seems to be working.


Honda boss said they were too accommodating basically yeah. That and their lack of KERS knowledge left them on the back foot with the hybrid side. They literally knew nothing about even the 'K' never mind the even more complex 'H' which took them until the back end of 2017 to get on top of.

I think the important bit was getting the hybrid part to do what the others were, which was done while still with McLaren, the 'h' decides everything in this formula, you're efficiency is dependent on it, getting full and constant deployment is dependent on it etc.. but yeah they've taken a further step with freedom from STR too. For example they got an unexpected bump from just exhaust reconfiguration I believe, something like 15bhp, though I'm going by memory tbf.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
What?

The first Honda engine (2015 & 2016) couldn't run any form of TJI or get the most out of the MGU-H because Honda stuck the compressor in the vee to meet McLaren's requested parameters.

The 2017 pu is a Mercedes knock off and this is year 2 of that one with Mario Illien's help from Bahrain last year after Honda's disastrous attempt at lean burn didn't work and vibrated the hell out of the car. I'd imagine they are now running the combustion concept of Mario's (And Red Bull) that Renault rejected in favour of their own but it's unclear as they've not admitted his involvement yet.

So in the first 2 years Honda were compromised because of McLaren's design parameters?


They were compromised by their solution to meet those parameters yes. They could've gone down another route or told McLaren they needed more space. It's a works deal, they're supposed to work together after all.

Fair enough, you can perhaps accuse Honda of being too soft or McLaren of being too assertive?

Interesting with no such restrictions placed upon Honda by STR just how well the partnership seems to be working.


Honda boss said they were too accommodating basically yeah. That and their lack of KERS knowledge left them on the back foot with the hybrid side. They literally knew nothing about even the 'K' never mind the even more complex 'H' which took them until the back end of 2017 to get on top of.

I think the important bit was getting the hybrid part to do what the others were, which was done while still with McLaren, the 'h' decides everything in this formula, you're efficiency is dependent on it, getting full and constant deployment is dependent on it etc.. but yeah they've taken a further step with freedom from STR too. For example they got an unexpected bump from just exhaust reconfiguration I believe, something like 15bhp, though I'm going by memory tbf.

Yeah I mentioned before the bump in performance because the STR was originally designed for the Renault engine which needed more room under the cover than Honda were allowed with McLaren.

Shame they are dropping the 'H' that is the jewel in the hybrid engines.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:50 pm 
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in the end i hope liberty has the good sense to allow for many, many, many miles of testing the new pu before 2021.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:59 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
in the end i hope liberty has the good sense to allow for many, many, many miles of testing the new pu before 2021.

The new PU is hardly going to change so there shouldn't be that many problems.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:11 pm 
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Location: illinois
pokerman wrote:
pc27b wrote:
in the end i hope liberty has the good sense to allow for many, many, many miles of testing the new pu before 2021.

The new PU is hardly going to change so there shouldn't be that many problems.



true, but there is the possibility two new manufacturers coming in. 8 days on the track doesn't cut it


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:21 am 
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pc27b wrote:
pokerman wrote:
pc27b wrote:
in the end i hope liberty has the good sense to allow for many, many, many miles of testing the new pu before 2021.

The new PU is hardly going to change so there shouldn't be that many problems.



true, but there is the possibility two new manufacturers coming in. 8 days on the track doesn't cut it

The engine will not be as complicated plus I would think that any new manufacturer would give themselves the time to develop the engine properly, if they leave things a bit last minute like we saw with Ferrari, Renault and Honda then yes they might give themselves a problem but that would be on them for their poor preparation.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 6th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:30 am 
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Mclaren again failed to make into Q3 and here FI beat them but some consolation to be ahead of TRH

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:07 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
pc27b wrote:
pokerman wrote:
pc27b wrote:
in the end i hope liberty has the good sense to allow for many, many, many miles of testing the new pu before 2021.

The new PU is hardly going to change so there shouldn't be that many problems.



true, but there is the possibility two new manufacturers coming in. 8 days on the track doesn't cut it

The engine will not be as complicated plus I would think that any new manufacturer would give themselves the time to develop the engine properly, if they leave things a bit last minute like we saw with Ferrari, Renault and Honda then yes they might give themselves a problem but that would be on them for their poor preparation.


Until they actually enter, they do not come under the testing limits. If they delay entry by a year, they can thrash around tracks for a year, as long as it is not in this years car. I do think they should be allowed to use one years car after the last race of that year though so they have 4 months of sorting time.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:28 pm 
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McLaren should just nicely ask for Ferrari engines.

McLaren-Ferrari... imagine Ron Dennis’ reaction.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:30 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
McLaren should just nicely ask for Ferrari engines.

McLaren-Ferrari... imagine Ron Dennis’ reaction.


Are photocopies any use ?


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