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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:07 am 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
So why use the phrase "baying for blood"? It's not the same thing is it.

Why even the suggestion that Marquez may get worse, what am I supposed to read into that, he did get penalised after all and he's not stupid.

Well as many times before the problem seems to be you needing to read all sorts of things into everything. I wasn't calling for harder penalties hence I'm not baying for blood as you so eloquently put it.

Why would you think that he might get worse?

Frustration.

Unless his race gets ruined again by stalling his bike on the grid and then getting a ride through penalty I don't see how he's going to get frustrated?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:11 am 
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mds wrote:
Cold Gin wrote:
mds wrote:
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mds wrote:
Some crazy race. A shame for the downright grade-A bullshittery Marquez pulled which has soaked up all attention, because right at the front we saw some good stuff happening. Stoked for Rins to have his first podium, would have liked to see him win but this is OK too. Zarco just not enough for his first win.

Although to be fair Miller was somewhat robbed with the starting procedure that was made up right there and then. There are rules and they were not followed, and Miller was disadvantaged.

I believe the actual rule was that tyre changing riders have to start from the back so basically all the riders apart from Miller started from the back.


I cannot claim to know the MotoGP rules as well as I do the F1 rules, but as I've read just about everywhere the tyre changing riders should have started from pit lane. Either that or flag to flag rules should have been implemented with a normal start and riders coming in after one lap to change bikes.


That is correct, but the worry was that 23 riders racing from the pitlane was unsafe, especially with a variable track, so the decision was made to make them start from the back as much as the could with the space allowed. That's what I got from Ezpeleta, anyway. I'm not sure I entirely agree but it does make sense. When this happened similarly at the Sachsenring a few years ago with 4 or 5 riders, it was dangerous and they were elbowing and banging immediately, so the thought of 23 riders doing the same could have caused mass carnage, which would have robbed us all of what eventually happened.


I get that, but Miller really got the bad end of the deal.

If they were making rules up on the spot anyway, they might as well have implemented flag to flag for those that didn't swap tyres before the start, and have given those that did swap tyres a ride-through. Done.

One made up rule is not better than another made up rule, the actual rule they didn't implement because of it being unsafe for all the bikes bar one starting from the pitlane.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:33 am 
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Cold Gin wrote:
The bigger picture has to always be kept in mind; I think they made a good choice in the interests of safety. Miller still had a sizable advantage at the start, and the other riders were penalized to the back.


If everyone is penalized to the back then pretty much nobody is. Miller had all of, what, two seconds? That's not sizeable, not even close to what he should have had.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:35 am 
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pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
Cold Gin wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I believe the actual rule was that tyre changing riders have to start from the back so basically all the riders apart from Miller started from the back.


I cannot claim to know the MotoGP rules as well as I do the F1 rules, but as I've read just about everywhere the tyre changing riders should have started from pit lane. Either that or flag to flag rules should have been implemented with a normal start and riders coming in after one lap to change bikes.


That is correct, but the worry was that 23 riders racing from the pitlane was unsafe, especially with a variable track, so the decision was made to make them start from the back as much as the could with the space allowed. That's what I got from Ezpeleta, anyway. I'm not sure I entirely agree but it does make sense. When this happened similarly at the Sachsenring a few years ago with 4 or 5 riders, it was dangerous and they were elbowing and banging immediately, so the thought of 23 riders doing the same could have caused mass carnage, which would have robbed us all of what eventually happened.


I get that, but Miller really got the bad end of the deal.

If they were making rules up on the spot anyway, they might as well have implemented flag to flag for those that didn't swap tyres before the start, and have given those that did swap tyres a ride-through. Done.

One made up rule is not better than another made up rule, the actual rule they didn't implement because of it being unsafe for all the bikes bar one starting from the pitlane.


Then start them all on the grid and implement flag to flag. They'd have to make up far less for that than they did now. In the interest of fairness it would have been better.

In any case they have to look at the rules because this is clearly a case that isn't covered well enough.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:05 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Why even the suggestion that Marquez may get worse, what am I supposed to read into that, he did get penalised after all and he's not stupid.

Well as many times before the problem seems to be you needing to read all sorts of things into everything. I wasn't calling for harder penalties hence I'm not baying for blood as you so eloquently put it.

Why would you think that he might get worse?

Frustration.

Unless his race gets ruined again by stalling his bike on the grid and then getting a ride through penalty I don't see how he's going to get frustrated?

That's strange, I'd have thought there'd be more reasons to get frustrated.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Mds what they did was the best solution

Gifting Miller a win would have been embarrassing viewing


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:43 pm 
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Zazu wrote:
Mds what they did was the best solution

Gifting Miller a win would have been embarrassing viewing


I don't care about embarrassing if it means it's fair. Miller had two seconds advance, which is a proper shambles. They rest screwed up and hardly paid for it at all.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:54 pm 
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You start from the pit lane if you change tyres after the formation lap. If you change before the formation lap, you start the formation lap from the pit exit once all other riders have passed and form up at the back of the grid in qualification order.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:45 am 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
Cold Gin wrote:
mds wrote:
I cannot claim to know the MotoGP rules as well as I do the F1 rules, but as I've read just about everywhere the tyre changing riders should have started from pit lane. Either that or flag to flag rules should have been implemented with a normal start and riders coming in after one lap to change bikes.


That is correct, but the worry was that 23 riders racing from the pitlane was unsafe, especially with a variable track, so the decision was made to make them start from the back as much as the could with the space allowed. That's what I got from Ezpeleta, anyway. I'm not sure I entirely agree but it does make sense. When this happened similarly at the Sachsenring a few years ago with 4 or 5 riders, it was dangerous and they were elbowing and banging immediately, so the thought of 23 riders doing the same could have caused mass carnage, which would have robbed us all of what eventually happened.


I get that, but Miller really got the bad end of the deal.

If they were making rules up on the spot anyway, they might as well have implemented flag to flag for those that didn't swap tyres before the start, and have given those that did swap tyres a ride-through. Done.

One made up rule is not better than another made up rule, the actual rule they didn't implement because of it being unsafe for all the bikes bar one starting from the pitlane.


Then start them all on the grid and implement flag to flag. They'd have to make up far less for that than they did now. In the interest of fairness it would have been better.

In any case they have to look at the rules because this is clearly a case that isn't covered well enough.

But then again you are inventing your own rule I believe?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:46 am 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Well as many times before the problem seems to be you needing to read all sorts of things into everything. I wasn't calling for harder penalties hence I'm not baying for blood as you so eloquently put it.

Why would you think that he might get worse?

Frustration.

Unless his race gets ruined again by stalling his bike on the grid and then getting a ride through penalty I don't see how he's going to get frustrated?

That's strange, I'd have thought there'd be more reasons to get frustrated.

More frustrated than getting a ride through penalty?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:07 am 
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What an awkward conversation, I'll stop now.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:56 pm 
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Marquez starting p4 and still 2/7 in the betting


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:17 am 
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Zazu wrote:
Marquez starting p4 and still 2/7 in the betting


Not surprised, the only thing which will stop MM winning this race and the title is MM himself, he has his critics but I love watching him.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:47 am 
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It seems that Marquez overcame his apparent frustrations to win the race easily. :)

I've no problems with Marquez being given a grid penalty for blocking Vinales in qualifying It's just unfortunate that it was Marquez who was the benefactor of the new get strict rules and then it sort of continues any rhetoric against him, a certain Valentino Rossi blocked Vinales just as badly last year without penalty just to highlight that in the past it was seen as no big thing.

Pol Espargaro also received a grid penalty for blocking in Q2 although we only got to hear about this after the Marquez incident, maybe a case of we penalised Marquez so we have to penalise Pol or maybe not?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:10 pm 
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Moto3-Disappointing from Canet. I think he really just got it wrong with the tires but that was a forgetable performance. Jorge Martin seems to be the strongest overall rider in Moto3. My money says he'll be champion. The guy has some serious pace.

Moto2-Alex Marquez seems to be suffering from the same issues that hampered Morbidelli in 2016 before he figured things out for 2017. Alex needs to figure out how to make these tires last a race distance or he will continue to have these types of experiences out there. Alex always seems a little shaky, even when he's out in front by a mile. His young teammate Mir was the star of the race for me though. He was really barged off the track on the first lap but after falling back to 24th, he charged his way back up to 4th! I'd love to see the odds on him for the 2019 Moto2 championship because I think he's a lock.

It was sad to see Sam drop the bike again. He's really got to get things turned around or he will find himself off the GP circuit in the near future. Marquez, Oliveira and Bagnaia are all in with a shot at the title this year.

MotoGP-Master class from Marc and it is starting to look like what I thought it would be after the first 2 rounds. I think Marc will blitz the entire season this year and win 10+ races. The Honda is back in a position of strength and Marc is stronger than ever. I think both Ducati and Yamaha need to ask themselves some hard questions. Personally, I think Yamaha are going to continue to go backwards so long as they attach themselves to Rossi. Sure he brings great sponsorship and fan support but he isn't a rider who is going to lead you to a championship. Not anymore. Likewise, Dovi is missing a little something when compared to the top riders and Jorge Lorenzo simply isn't working out for Ducati.

I've heard rumors that Zarco will end up at Honda in 2019 but I think it's both yamaha and Ducati that desperately need to shake up their rider lineups. I really hope we see a young rider get a chance on one of those bikes. I think the Rossis and Lorenzos of the world have been monopolizing top seats without producing top performances for the last couple of years.


Last edited by sandman1347 on Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:15 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Moto3-Disappointing from Canet. I think he really just got it wrong with the tires but that was a forgetable performance. Jorge Martin seems to be the strongest overall rider in Moto3. My money says he'll be champion. The guy has some serious pace.

Moto2-Alex Marquez seems to be suffering from the same issues that hampered Morbidelli in 2016 before he figured things out for 2017. Alex needs to figure out how to make these tires last a race distance or he will continue to have these types of experiences out there. Alex always seems a little shaky, even when he's out in front by a mile. His young teammate Mir was the star of the race for me though. He was really barged off the track on the first lap but after falling back to 24th, he charged his way back up to 4th! I'd love to see the odds on him for the 2019 Moto2 championship because I think he's a lock.

It was sad to see Sam drop the bike again. He's really got to get things turned around or he will find himself off the GP circuit in the near future. Marquez, Olivera and Bagnaia are all in with a shot at the title this year.

MotoGP-Master class from Marc and it is starting to look like what I thought it would be after the first 2 rounds. I think Marc will blitz the entire season this year and win 10+ races. The Honda is back in a position of strength and Marc is stronger than ever. I think both Ducati and Yamaha need to ask themselves some hard questions. Personally, I think Yamaha are going to continue to go backwards so long as they attach themselves to Rossi. Sure he brings great sponsorship and fan support but he isn't a rider who is going to lead you to a championship. Not anymore. Likewise, Dovi is missing a little something when compared to the top riders and Jorge Lorenzo simply isn't working out for Ducati.

I've heard rumors that Zarco will end up at Honda in 2019 but I think it's both yamaha and Ducati that desperately need to shake up their rider lineups. I really hope we see a young rider get a chance on one of those bikes. I think the Rossis and Lorenzos of the world have been monopolizing top seats without producing top performances for the last couple of years.


I would like to have seen Rossi win the title a couple of years back then retire.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:17 pm 
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It's no surprise to see Martin winning he was very much pre-season favourite with Canet second favourite, Martin was the pole king last season but he couldn't convert the poles into wins but it did show the inherent speed that he has.

Regarding Alex Marques, how many years does it take for him to start working things out?

He's in his fourth year of Moto2 and we are comparing his performance to riders in their second seasons, his first 2 seasons he finished 13th and 14th in the series with 1 podium, his rookie teammate Mir is currently 7th in the series and may well have won the race last time out if he had not been pushed off the track in the first corner.

Basically it took Marquez 2 years to get up to speed in Moto2 whilst seemingly it's only took Mir 2 races, I think riders of real talent get wins or podiums in their rookie seasons and then go for the title in their seconds seasons, like his own brother, Vinales, Rins and presently Bagnaia and I expect Mir to fall into that category as well.

In respect to Yamaha they had the fastest bike at the beginning of last season in the hands of Vinales but not so much Rossi then they decided to change it, I'm also not sure that a rider past his best is the rider to lead that team forward?

With respect to Dovi no one is really coming close to him on the Ducati, I think you have to rate him second best behind Marquez, the points don't lie.

Regarding Sam Lowes he's like his twin brother Alex, they're serial crashes, I think it's in their psyche not to except second best but ultimately they lack the talent of the very best so they ride over their limit.

On to Zarco joining Honda I don't believe he will be any better than Pedrosa but I guess Honda's concerns with Pedrosa apart from his age would be the amount of times he gets injured, he's like porcelain.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:50 am 
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Looking like Zarco is going to replace Bradley Smith at the factory KTM squad, based on some reports today.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:51 am 
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https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:48 am 
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Cold Gin wrote:
Looking like Zarco is going to replace Bradley Smith at the factory KTM squad, based on some reports today.

Yeah I was going to post that, maybe he doesn't fancy being teammates with Marquez?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Just watched COTA race. Wasn't a vintage race but God the bikes looks great racing on that track!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:17 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Cold Gin wrote:
Looking like Zarco is going to replace Bradley Smith at the factory KTM squad, based on some reports today.

Yeah I was going to post that, maybe he doesn't fancy being teammates with Marquez?

Must be. Boy I find this a bit odd really. Ok, teaming up with Marc will mean that you will likely always be second best but KTM? Really? They might be years away from competitiveness (if they ever get there). A move to Ducati seems to be something that is possible and even Suzuki would offer better prospects in the immediate future. Zarco may only be in his second year in MotoGP but he's going to turn 28 in June so he's really not a particularly young rider. He needs to put himself into position to win now because by the end of his next contract, there will be shiny young riders like Mir and Martin to attract the eye of the top teams. This is his one window to capitalize and he goes to KTM? Bad move IMO. Maybe I'll be proven wrong but I just don't see KTM winning anything for at least 3-4 years and at that point, Zarco will no longer be the talk of the town the way he has been to some extent thus far in his career.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 1:17 pm 
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Moto3 - canet had a problem with his bike. VR46 academy look like theyre about to take everything over based on the rookies.

Moto2 - Bagnaia class. Has taken amazingly well to the big bikes. Alex Marquez gets criticised too much because hes compared to his brother. Hes more experienced but hes only 18 months older than Mir. Really enjoyed the race, cant recall a year with as many good riders in the class.

MotoGP - Marquez will waltz to the title as the preseason and end of last year suggested. Really good to see yamaha back. Theyd sign rossi for life if they could. His pulling power for sponsorship/fans is stratospheric and hell still win races this year. Apart from Marquez you could argue hes still as big a title challenger on the right bike as any other rider


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:18 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Cold Gin wrote:
Looking like Zarco is going to replace Bradley Smith at the factory KTM squad, based on some reports today.

Yeah I was going to post that, maybe he doesn't fancy being teammates with Marquez?

Must be. Boy I find this a bit odd really. Ok, teaming up with Marc will mean that you will likely always be second best but KTM? Really? They might be years away from competitiveness (if they ever get there). A move to Ducati seems to be something that is possible and even Suzuki would offer better prospects in the immediate future. Zarco may only be in his second year in MotoGP but he's going to turn 28 in June so he's really not a particularly young rider. He needs to put himself into position to win now because by the end of his next contract, there will be shiny young riders like Mir and Martin to attract the eye of the top teams. This is his one window to capitalize and he goes to KTM? Bad move IMO. Maybe I'll be proven wrong but I just don't see KTM winning anything for at least 3-4 years and at that point, Zarco will no longer be the talk of the town the way he has been to some extent thus far in his career.

He's never been mentioned as being on the Ducati shopping list whilst regarding Suzuki he wouldn't ride for them on a matter of principle, he had a verbal agreement to ride with them this year but they changed their minds and went with Rins instead.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Who do you guys think is better out of M.Marquez and prime V.Rossi?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:44 pm 
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Invade wrote:
Who do you guys think is better out of M.Marquez and prime V.Rossi?

Looking at the standard of competition I would go with Marquez.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:04 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
It's no surprise to see Martin winning he was very much pre-season favourite with Canet second favourite, Martin was the pole king last season but he couldn't convert the poles into wins but it did show the inherent speed that he has.

Regarding Alex Marques, how many years does it take for him to start working things out?

He's in his fourth year of Moto2 and we are comparing his performance to riders in their second seasons, his first 2 seasons he finished 13th and 14th in the series with 1 podium, his rookie teammate Mir is currently 7th in the series and may well have won the race last time out if he had not been pushed off the track in the first corner.

Basically it took Marquez 2 years to get up to speed in Moto2 whilst seemingly it's only took Mir 2 races, I think riders of real talent get wins or podiums in their rookie seasons and then go for the title in their seconds seasons, like his own brother, Vinales, Rins and presently Bagnaia and I expect Mir to fall into that category as well.

In respect to Yamaha they had the fastest bike at the beginning of last season in the hands of Vinales but not so much Rossi then they decided to change it, I'm also not sure that a rider past his best is the rider to lead that team forward?

With respect to Dovi no one is really coming close to him on the Ducati, I think you have to rate him second best behind Marquez, the points don't lie.

Regarding Sam Lowes he's like his twin brother Alex, they're serial crashes, I think it's in their psyche not to except second best but ultimately they lack the talent of the very best so they ride over their limit.

On to Zarco joining Honda I don't believe he will be any better than Pedrosa but I guess Honda's concerns with Pedrosa apart from his age would be the amount of times he gets injured, he's like porcelain.

I disagree with a couple of things here. First of all, Alex Marquez is not his brother. You have to understand that only the very best riders can do what you've outlined (winning the title in their second year). Alex Rins raced 2 years in Moto2 and failed to win the title and I think he's clearly a talented rider worthy of his place in MotoGP. Not everyone can be Marquez, Rossi or Lorenzo. Alex really does need to deliver the championship this season though. Failing to deliver in year 4 against a lot of riders with less Moto2 experience will leave him on the outside looking in for MotoGP seats. If he does win the title though, he will almost certainly find a MotoGP seat for next season and he will have earned it. Okay so he's not quite the phenom that his brother was. It takes him some time and experience to get fully up to his potential but he has won a Moto3 title and he is in really good shape to win at the Moto2 level too. You can't just write that off because he's not as good as Marc.

I also strongly disagree with the notion that Dovi is the second best rider in the world. Absolutely not! We have more than a decade of Dovi to study and he's clearly a half step behind the very best riders. Okay, he's one of the few to figure out the Ducati but don't let Lorenzo's struggles on a bike that is totally opposite of his style skew the way that you perceive Dovi. When Iannone was his teammate, Dovi was clearly the slower of the two and I think there are at least 4-5 quicker riders on the grid at the moment. This is where Ducati are losing out big time. They don't have an effective rider lineup because Lorenzo is lost on that bike and Dovi is not up to par with the very best in MotoGP. Dovi is of similar level to Crutchlow IMO but just more consistent.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:51 pm 
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I agree regarding Zarco going to KTM, it seems an odd choice and they'd need a colossal turnaround in terms of engineering to get them on the pace of who's running up front, let alone Factory Suzuki/Factory Ducati/Tech 3/Pramac Ducati. Espargaro is not a bad rider, but he isn't challenging the likes of Jack Miller at this point. Which I don't mean at all as a comment of disrespect.

Right now, I think Vinales is the biggest challenger to Marquez---who, if he doesn't crash, barge people off the track, or get injured, looks like he is going to win the title this season. HRC have clearly improved their bike from last year, Yamaha looks better but not on the pace. And to me, it is going to be Vinales who will lead the charge for them this season. Rossi looks fit and motivated as ever, but this weekend exemplified that he lacks that little bit compared to Vinales.

Now mind you, I don't want to get out the anointing oil just yet. Different tracks, temperature variation and of course rain will play at part at some point. Marquez just looks so tough right now; on tracks like Austin, he may well prove to be just too fast. On tracks he doesn't like ( line in Doha) he still was still in significant contention for victory. Hopefully the other guys can up their game, get some developments electronically in the pipeline, winglets, something. Ducati looks disappointing, they just haven't made the improvements we had all hoped for. Lorenzo looks lost---I still don't think he's lost his speed, but they cannot give him what he wants to ride like he wants, and he cannot change his base style. I refuse to believe he's unmotivated or is slow and old, isn't training, etc. etc. If anything, he looks as fit as he's ever been. The red bike just can't carry corner speed like he needs, and it doesn't look good on the brakes, either. At least not for him. Dovi has the wisdom and the ability to minimize shortcomings, but over the balance of the season, if they don't change something radically, he may not challenge for victories. Qatar was a one-off in my mind. Jerez is not historically a track they like.

Suzuki, to their credit, look like they have made gains and they have Rins who is motivated to climb the ladder, and Iannone who is motivated to keep a career in the sport. Fair play and credit to them, I enjoy seeing them challenge for podiums.

We are early in the season, so there is time for changes and upsets depending on many variables. We'd all be blind to not recognize what MM is capable of, though. If he doesn't beat himself, I don't see anyone other than Vinales challenging him. Which is credit to his unbelievable ability and the fact that they are giving him what he needs to ride like the demon he is.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:44 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's no surprise to see Martin winning he was very much pre-season favourite with Canet second favourite, Martin was the pole king last season but he couldn't convert the poles into wins but it did show the inherent speed that he has.

Regarding Alex Marques, how many years does it take for him to start working things out?

He's in his fourth year of Moto2 and we are comparing his performance to riders in their second seasons, his first 2 seasons he finished 13th and 14th in the series with 1 podium, his rookie teammate Mir is currently 7th in the series and may well have won the race last time out if he had not been pushed off the track in the first corner.

Basically it took Marquez 2 years to get up to speed in Moto2 whilst seemingly it's only took Mir 2 races, I think riders of real talent get wins or podiums in their rookie seasons and then go for the title in their seconds seasons, like his own brother, Vinales, Rins and presently Bagnaia and I expect Mir to fall into that category as well.

In respect to Yamaha they had the fastest bike at the beginning of last season in the hands of Vinales but not so much Rossi then they decided to change it, I'm also not sure that a rider past his best is the rider to lead that team forward?

With respect to Dovi no one is really coming close to him on the Ducati, I think you have to rate him second best behind Marquez, the points don't lie.

Regarding Sam Lowes he's like his twin brother Alex, they're serial crashes, I think it's in their psyche not to except second best but ultimately they lack the talent of the very best so they ride over their limit.

On to Zarco joining Honda I don't believe he will be any better than Pedrosa but I guess Honda's concerns with Pedrosa apart from his age would be the amount of times he gets injured, he's like porcelain.

I disagree with a couple of things here. First of all, Alex Marquez is not his brother. You have to understand that only the very best riders can do what you've outlined (winning the title in their second year). Alex Rins raced 2 years in Moto2 and failed to win the title and I think he's clearly a talented rider worthy of his place in MotoGP. Not everyone can be Marquez, Rossi or Lorenzo. Alex really does need to deliver the championship this season though. Failing to deliver in year 4 against a lot of riders with less Moto2 experience will leave him on the outside looking in for MotoGP seats. If he does win the title though, he will almost certainly find a MotoGP seat for next season and he will have earned it. Okay so he's not quite the phenom that his brother was. It takes him some time and experience to get fully up to his potential but he has won a Moto3 title and he is in really good shape to win at the Moto2 level too. You can't just write that off because he's not as good as Marc.

I also strongly disagree with the notion that Dovi is the second best rider in the world. Absolutely not! We have more than a decade of Dovi to study and he's clearly a half step behind the very best riders. Okay, he's one of the few to figure out the Ducati but don't let Lorenzo's struggles on a bike that is totally opposite of his style skew the way that you perceive Dovi. When Iannone was his teammate, Dovi was clearly the slower of the two and I think there are at least 4-5 quicker riders on the grid at the moment. This is where Ducati are losing out big time. They don't have an effective rider lineup because Lorenzo is lost on that bike and Dovi is not up to par with the very best in MotoGP. Dovi is of similar level to Crutchlow IMO but just more consistent.

I guess you didn't read properly what I said, wins and/or podiums in their first year then go for the title in their second seasons, Rins was very much going for the title until he got injured, winning with the help of much greater experience is not dissimilar to how Jolyon Palmer won the GP2 title.

Regarding Dovi I'm just judging on what I'm seeing presently, he's beating a 3 time world champion easily and is Marquez closest challenger.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Lorenzo was never going to work at Ducati. When the stars allign hes unstoppable but even in the Yamaha days when things were off he was bad. Even in 2015 he looked completely lost in the opening rounds

Marquez is a level above everyone. Barring his blurred vision in 2011 he'd be a 7x world champion. Thats absolutely ridiciulous when you consider the competition he's been up against and how competitive the current era of MotoGP is since they dumbed down the electronics.

I think theres very little in terms of outright pace the next group of riders.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:11 pm 
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pokerman wrote:

Regarding Dovi I'm just judging on what I'm seeing presently, he's beating a 3 time world champion easily and is Marquez closest challenger.


Dovi was woeful in Argentina and didnt set the world alight at COTA. Ive no doubt whatsover last seasons Ducati would have won the world title easily in a peak Stoners hands. This year theyve lost there advantage and I dont see him putting up a title fight at all


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Zazu wrote:
pokerman wrote:

Regarding Dovi I'm just judging on what I'm seeing presently, he's beating a 3 time world champion easily and is Marquez closest challenger.


Dovi was woeful in Argentina and didnt set the world alight at COTA. Ive no doubt whatsover last seasons Ducati would have won the world title easily in a peak Stoners hands. This year theyve lost there advantage and I dont see him putting up a title fight at all

Dovi was easily the best Ducati in COTA, pray tell apart from Marquez which rider is performing better than him this season, Dovi is leading the series with what you said is a lost bike advantage, the points don't lie.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Zazu wrote:
Lorenzo was never going to work at Ducati. When the stars allign hes unstoppable but even in the Yamaha days when things were off he was bad. Even in 2015 he looked completely lost in the opening rounds

Marquez is a level above everyone. Barring his blurred vision in 2011 he'd be a 7x world champion. Thats absolutely ridiciulous when you consider the competition he's been up against and how competitive the current era of MotoGP is since they dumbed down the electronics.

I think theres very little in terms of outright pace the next group of riders.

If you look at his last few years at Yamaha he was starting to get beat by Rossi, he lost in 2014 and 2016 and won controversially in 2015, he was getting beat more often than not by Rossi and you may argue to a point he ran from Rossi?

Vinales took his ride and he beat Rossi last year and more often than not when the two of them finish Vinales tends to be in front of Rossi and that's a pattern that looks like repeating itself this year.

Unless they go back to the Bridgestones with the super strong front tyre then Lorenzo looks to be behind the likes of Marquez, Vinales, Rossi and of course Dovi, his stock is in decline as is his wage packet with Ducati not interested in offering him anywhere near the sort of money he is on now, I heard a 50% wage cut if he wants to stop at Ducati, but after his most recent performance I doubt he will be even retained.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Just read that Dovi rejected Ducati's initial offer. Looks like his agent is playing hardball. If I were him, I'd be eyeballing the second seat at Honda. Especially if rumor holds out that Zarco has no interest in that seat and is going to KTM. On another note, how long can Dani Pedrosa hold on to that ride? Nothing against him, but Jesus. He's had it forever.

https://www.autosport.com/motogp/news/1 ... rom-ducati

Also, it appears as if Suzuki are sniffing around Lorenzo. I would be flabbergasted if he were to take Iannone's ride TWICE.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:02 pm 
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Cold Gin wrote:
Just read that Dovi rejected Ducati's initial offer. Looks like his agent is playing hardball. If I were him, I'd be eyeballing the second seat at Honda. Especially if rumor holds out that Zarco has no interest in that seat and is going to KTM. On another note, how long can Dani Pedrosa hold on to that ride? Nothing against him, but Jesus. He's had it forever.

https://www.autosport.com/motogp/news/1 ... rom-ducati

Also, it appears as if Suzuki are sniffing around Lorenzo. I would be flabbergasted if he were to take Iannone's ride TWICE.

In particular that he is doing a worse job on the Ducati then what Iannone did who was more often quicker than Dovi but just had too many crashes in particular with Dovi.

The Suzuki seems similar to the Yamaha so it might suit Lorenzo, I wonder if Ducati would ever consider taking Iannone back given how quick he was on the bike but I guess they've written him off as a crasher?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:28 pm 
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well, the crashing, the crash in Argentina with took out both he and Dovi, which was a big mistake, but more than anything, he seems to have a poor attitude. Or at least that year he did, and he's been under threat at Suzuki for not having a great attitude. This year he needs to do something, which he surely did in Austin.

Suzuki is a story I will keep a close eye on. Rins is talented and hungry, its interesting to see how Iannone will respond to his form this year.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:40 am 
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pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's no surprise to see Martin winning he was very much pre-season favourite with Canet second favourite, Martin was the pole king last season but he couldn't convert the poles into wins but it did show the inherent speed that he has.

Regarding Alex Marques, how many years does it take for him to start working things out?

He's in his fourth year of Moto2 and we are comparing his performance to riders in their second seasons, his first 2 seasons he finished 13th and 14th in the series with 1 podium, his rookie teammate Mir is currently 7th in the series and may well have won the race last time out if he had not been pushed off the track in the first corner.

Basically it took Marquez 2 years to get up to speed in Moto2 whilst seemingly it's only took Mir 2 races, I think riders of real talent get wins or podiums in their rookie seasons and then go for the title in their seconds seasons, like his own brother, Vinales, Rins and presently Bagnaia and I expect Mir to fall into that category as well.

In respect to Yamaha they had the fastest bike at the beginning of last season in the hands of Vinales but not so much Rossi then they decided to change it, I'm also not sure that a rider past his best is the rider to lead that team forward?

With respect to Dovi no one is really coming close to him on the Ducati, I think you have to rate him second best behind Marquez, the points don't lie.

Regarding Sam Lowes he's like his twin brother Alex, they're serial crashes, I think it's in their psyche not to except second best but ultimately they lack the talent of the very best so they ride over their limit.

On to Zarco joining Honda I don't believe he will be any better than Pedrosa but I guess Honda's concerns with Pedrosa apart from his age would be the amount of times he gets injured, he's like porcelain.

I disagree with a couple of things here. First of all, Alex Marquez is not his brother. You have to understand that only the very best riders can do what you've outlined (winning the title in their second year). Alex Rins raced 2 years in Moto2 and failed to win the title and I think he's clearly a talented rider worthy of his place in MotoGP. Not everyone can be Marquez, Rossi or Lorenzo. Alex really does need to deliver the championship this season though. Failing to deliver in year 4 against a lot of riders with less Moto2 experience will leave him on the outside looking in for MotoGP seats. If he does win the title though, he will almost certainly find a MotoGP seat for next season and he will have earned it. Okay so he's not quite the phenom that his brother was. It takes him some time and experience to get fully up to his potential but he has won a Moto3 title and he is in really good shape to win at the Moto2 level too. You can't just write that off because he's not as good as Marc.

I also strongly disagree with the notion that Dovi is the second best rider in the world. Absolutely not! We have more than a decade of Dovi to study and he's clearly a half step behind the very best riders. Okay, he's one of the few to figure out the Ducati but don't let Lorenzo's struggles on a bike that is totally opposite of his style skew the way that you perceive Dovi. When Iannone was his teammate, Dovi was clearly the slower of the two and I think there are at least 4-5 quicker riders on the grid at the moment. This is where Ducati are losing out big time. They don't have an effective rider lineup because Lorenzo is lost on that bike and Dovi is not up to par with the very best in MotoGP. Dovi is of similar level to Crutchlow IMO but just more consistent.

I guess you didn't read properly what I said, wins and/or podiums in their first year then go for the title in their second seasons, Rins was very much going for the title until he got injured, winning with the help of much greater experience is not dissimilar to how Jolyon Palmer won the GP2 title.

Regarding Dovi I'm just judging on what I'm seeing presently, he's beating a 3 time world champion easily and is Marquez closest challenger.

Again, you can't read anything into Lorenzo's performance relative to Dovi. Jorge's style is to carry more speed through the corners and maintain a fast, flowing line with wide arcs through the corners. His style is tailored to the Yamahas, with their superior edge grip over the years. The Ducati is the polar opposite; all about power delivery and much more of a point and squirt bike. Some riders are a style mismatch for the Ducati and even Dovi took a couple of years to really get on top of it. Put the two of them on a Yamaha and who do you think will be chasing whom?

Much more telling is the fact that Dovi has been teamed with several top riders throughout his career and has been slower than them all. Perhaps Crutchlow was not significantly quicker but certainly Pedrosa was on a different level and Iannone was quicker too. Lorenzo is down racing against the privateer bikes half the time so he's obviously not adapted to the bike and perhaps he never will be.

On a side note; I like the idea of Lorenzo going to Suzuki. It will be a much-needed change for him and for Suzuki it's a chance to bring in a rider of a higher caliber than they would normally be able to attract. Jorge is certainly a very sensitive rider with a relatively narrow comfort zone but when he is on form, he's as good as anyone other than Marquez.


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PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:17 am 
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Mike Webb’s got a more difficult job.

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/motogp ... mike-webb/

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 2:32 pm 
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Espargaro extends KTM deal to 2020.

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/motogp ... mike-webb/

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:11 pm 
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https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/89498 ... -zarco-ktm

Official-----Zarco signed to Factory KTM squad for two years.

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