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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:08 am 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Migen wrote:
I was under the impression that the drivers have "the earliest time of arrival" displayed on their steering wheel and updated not only on the 3 sector times, but continuously in real time by GPS.
If thats the case, it begs the question... could Lewis have gone a bit faster but was wrongly told by Mercedes pit crew that he had a considerable buffer in hand?

No, this is not what Mercedes are referring to. The inept Sky team have woefully misinformed the viewers by concentrating on this for some incredibly bizarre reason. The lap deltas don't come from the team, they come from race control, Mercedes have no hand in calculating them or delivering them. Hamilton didn't drive too slowly, F1 drivers are experts at driving to sectors on demand.

The issue is BEFORE the Haas incidents occurred. After Hamilton pitted and Vettel remained out, Mercedes calculated how far ahead Vettel had to be in order to take the lead if a VSC came out. They calculated it at 15 seconds. It was actually 11 seconds. Therefore they told Hamilton to maintain the 12 second gap he had as IF a VSC came out - according to their calculations - Vettel wouldn't take the lead if he pitted. However, as it turned out, they were wrong. Hamilton had the pace to close the gap to 10 seconds or even less, he was holding back to save tyre life, however closing to 9 seconds really wouldn't have affected it too much.


:thumbup:

Thank you for this most clear and competent explanation!

How could Mercedes mis-calculate like this? What a most stupid mistake!


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:15 am 
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Is it safe to say Hamilton should've won but Mercedes let him down?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:30 am 
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lamo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
It was lucky, but to give a bit of due credit, Ferrari's strategy of keeping Vettel out for those near 30 laps and being in the lead paid off when the VSC occurred. Vettel admitted that he'd been hoping for one. I wrongly bemoaned their doing so at the time, but going for broke worked for them this time.


Well Ferrari always pit Raikkonen first (if he's in Vettel's way) which then allows Vettel to push harder & extend his 1st stint. It's happened many times in 2017 as well.



Completely wrong.

Pitting first means you exit the pits and are much quicker than the car that stayed out. Kimi was extending his net gap to Vettel as Vettel stayed out. The only track this isn’t the case on is Monaco because it takes several laps to get heat into the new tyre. Vettel was going to exit the pits about 6-7 seconds behind Kimi today. He was 4 seconds behind Kimi when Kimi pitted, kimi had closed an additional 2 seconds whilst Vettel stayed out. Kimi was the quicker Ferrari driver today.


But I bet any amount if there wasn't a VSC/SC even, Vettel would've finished ahead of Raikkonen.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:35 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
lamo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
It was lucky, but to give a bit of due credit, Ferrari's strategy of keeping Vettel out for those near 30 laps and being in the lead paid off when the VSC occurred. Vettel admitted that he'd been hoping for one. I wrongly bemoaned their doing so at the time, but going for broke worked for them this time.


Well Ferrari always pit Raikkonen first (if he's in Vettel's way) which then allows Vettel to push harder & extend his 1st stint. It's happened many times in 2017 as well.



Completely wrong.

Pitting first means you exit the pits and are much quicker than the car that stayed out. Kimi was extending his net gap to Vettel as Vettel stayed out. The only track this isn’t the case on is Monaco because it takes several laps to get heat into the new tyre. Vettel was going to exit the pits about 6-7 seconds behind Kimi today. He was 4 seconds behind Kimi when Kimi pitted, kimi had closed an additional 2 seconds whilst Vettel stayed out. Kimi was the quicker Ferrari driver today.


But I bet any amount if there wasn't a VSC/SC even, Vettel would've finished ahead of Raikkonen.


You mean, by the mean of a TO?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:36 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Is it safe to say Hamilton should've won but Mercedes let him down?

Pretty much so.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:03 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Is it safe to say Hamilton should've won but Mercedes let him down?

It would appear so. Particularly poor when you consider that it's not the first time they've thrown a win away by miscalculating VSC pitstop times.

Though really it doesn't seem right to say that Mercedes have let Hamilton down in any way when you look at the car they seem to have produced for him this year.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:31 am 
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j man wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Is it safe to say Hamilton should've won but Mercedes let him down?

It would appear so. Particularly poor when you consider that it's not the first time they've thrown a win away by miscalculating VSC pitstop times.

Though really it doesn't seem right to say that Mercedes have let Hamilton down in any way when you look at the car they seem to have produced for him this year.

This. He's once again in the best seat on the grid. I don't think there's an awful lot to complain about at Mercedes.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:42 am 
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babararacucudada wrote:
It would be nice to have overtaking on the track in a F1 race - it is supposed to be the pinnacle of Motor Racing.


Agreed. It was just so incredibly boring to watch. We were grateful that Ferrari won, so that all the Italians here in Melbourne would have something to celebrate, but it was tedious beyond belief, and we had great seats too.

We still can’t work out why the safety car came out today, they had the VSC for several laps and had plenty of time to remove the stricken car and nobody at the track understood why that had been deemed necessary, although it may make sense when we watch it back on tv.

At the end of last season, Abu Dhabi got a load of stick for being a dreadful circuit which provides no opportunities to overtake, but it seems that the fault lies more with the cars than the tracks. Lap after lap Verstappen was stuck behind Alonso and Ricciardo was stuck behind Raikkonen. Everyone was stuck behind someone. The cars are fast but cannot overtake each other and the racing looks like it will be as dull in 2018 as it was in 2017.

We had a great time here. Melbourne is easily the best organised GP I’ve been to, but the racing itself has to be more entertaining than this, it was dire.

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Last edited by klevispin on Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:43 am 
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babararacucudada wrote:
It would be nice to have overtaking on the track in a F1 race - it is supposed to be the pinnacle of Motor Racing.


..... or you could watch MotoGP instead. Hahahaha.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:01 pm 
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lamo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
It was lucky, but to give a bit of due credit, Ferrari's strategy of keeping Vettel out for those near 30 laps and being in the lead paid off when the VSC occurred. Vettel admitted that he'd been hoping for one. I wrongly bemoaned their doing so at the time, but going for broke worked for them this time.


Well Ferrari always pit Raikkonen first (if he's in Vettel's way) which then allows Vettel to push harder & extend his 1st stint. It's happened many times in 2017 as well.



Completely wrong.

Pitting first means you exit the pits and are much quicker than the car that stayed out. Kimi was extending his net gap to Vettel as Vettel stayed out. The only track this isn’t the case on is Monaco because it takes several laps to get heat into the new tyre. Vettel was going to exit the pits about 6-7 seconds behind Kimi today. He was 4 seconds behind Kimi when Kimi pitted, kimi had closed an additional 2 seconds whilst Vettel stayed out. Kimi was the quicker Ferrari driver today.


my problem with ferrari strategy is that it will always favour vettel no matter what the situation. this is based on closely watching them for the past 3 seasons. now i dont mean that vettel always ends up with the best strategy, they have screwed his up aswell, but the intention is always there to get him infront. if roles were reversed i firmly believe vettel would have pitted (probably slightly later) and kimi would have followed a lap later. keeping the positions. do you think ferrari would have let kimi keep lapping on the ultras like vettel did in the hope that he doesnt lose too much time and can finish the race on much better tyres and challenge vettel at the end. kimi was used to force hamiltons stop purely so vettel could try something different as that was the only way he was going to get either 1st or 2nd. the tyres were fine at that point and kimi was 1st to pit of the ultra runners. plus he was too far back for the undercut to work so what was the point apart from helping vettel.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:43 pm 
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.

With lots of assumptions on how things mature, I HOPE that the big watching point this season would be a season long tussle between Vettel and Kimi (with Hamilton doing his own thing) but I just know that Ferrari won't allow it, which will take away a source of interest to fans.

.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:47 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Is it safe to say Hamilton should've won but Mercedes let him down?

Yeah, Mercedes admitted as much.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:15 pm 
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pressure wrote:
babararacucudada wrote:
It would be nice to have overtaking on the track in a F1 race - it is supposed to be the pinnacle of Motor Racing.


..... or you could watch MotoGP instead. Hahahaha.


or Indycar or Australian Supercars or Nascar .........i'm watching F1 now just because i always have done - not because it is really that exciting now. Bit of a yawnfest if i'm honest even with the dumb DRS fake stuff.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Greenman wrote:
.

With lots of assumptions on how things mature, I HOPE that the big watching point this season would be a season long tussle between Vettel and Kimi (with Hamilton doing his own thing) but I just know that Ferrari won't allow it, which will take away a source of interest to fans.

.


Why not rather HOPE that the big watching point this season would be Hamilton not doing his thing for a change? ;)

No, Ferrari won't allow a season long tussle between their two drivers for the sake of creating a fun for the fans, particularly so if Vettel manages to get ahead of Kimi in the opening races and they have a shot at the title. Neither would Mercedes do so, for that matter.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Greenman wrote:
.

With lots of assumptions on how things mature, I HOPE that the big watching point this season would be a season long tussle between Vettel and Kimi (with Hamilton doing his own thing) but I just know that Ferrari won't allow it, which will take away a source of interest to fans.

.


Yeah, before the VSC came out I was really looking forward to see what would have happened when Vettel pitted. With fresher tires and coming out behind Kimi, he probably would have had a pace advantage, so would Ferrari have asked Kimi to get out of the way? That VSC ruined the race for me for so many reasons.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:52 pm 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
lamo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
It was lucky, but to give a bit of due credit, Ferrari's strategy of keeping Vettel out for those near 30 laps and being in the lead paid off when the VSC occurred. Vettel admitted that he'd been hoping for one. I wrongly bemoaned their doing so at the time, but going for broke worked for them this time.


Well Ferrari always pit Raikkonen first (if he's in Vettel's way) which then allows Vettel to push harder & extend his 1st stint. It's happened many times in 2017 as well.



Completely wrong.

Pitting first means you exit the pits and are much quicker than the car that stayed out. Kimi was extending his net gap to Vettel as Vettel stayed out. The only track this isn’t the case on is Monaco because it takes several laps to get heat into the new tyre. Vettel was going to exit the pits about 6-7 seconds behind Kimi today. He was 4 seconds behind Kimi when Kimi pitted, kimi had closed an additional 2 seconds whilst Vettel stayed out. Kimi was the quicker Ferrari driver today.


my problem with ferrari strategy is that it will always favour vettel no matter what the situation. this is based on closely watching them for the past 3 seasons. now i dont mean that vettel always ends up with the best strategy, they have screwed his up aswell, but the intention is always there to get him infront. if roles were reversed i firmly believe vettel would have pitted (probably slightly later) and kimi would have followed a lap later. keeping the positions. do you think ferrari would have let kimi keep lapping on the ultras like vettel did in the hope that he doesnt lose too much time and can finish the race on much better tyres and challenge vettel at the end. kimi was used to force hamiltons stop purely so vettel could try something different as that was the only way he was going to get either 1st or 2nd. the tyres were fine at that point and kimi was 1st to pit of the ultra runners. plus he was too far back for the undercut to work so what was the point apart from helping vettel.


How exactly does Ferrari strategy always favour Vettel?

Vettel was safe from 4th place Magnussen and Ferrari decided to hope on a hail Mary strategy with Vettel as other than the fortuitous VSC he was still going to finish 3rd so I don't get how he was favoured.
If he had stopped before Kimi and undercut him, you'd be here saying the same thing.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:04 pm 
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I don't think Mercedes will be worried at all by today, a software glitch is way easier to fix than a inherently slower car. Lewis kept on Seb's tail, putting in fastest laps in dirty air, with 7 laps older tyres. When he dropped back after his mistake he caught him again pretty quickly. Little to be concerned about, without Valterri's crash and the VSC mess today could well have been a Merc 1-2.

I expect Bahrain to be a comfortable win, for Mercedes, likely a 1-2. Let's just hope Red Bull can stay close to Ferrari.

Big shame for Haas, hopefully that wasn't their one and only opportunity for a good result.

Fernando vs Max could have been very interesting but sadly no real passing attempts were made. Would love to see those two in the same team!

Did anyone actually notice the halo once the racing was underway? I must say it didn't spoil anything for me. I'm sure they'll sort out the on-board camera angles before too long.

Don't think I saw the tyres that drivers were running shown on any of the graphics - we used to get that, and I don't like the font they use. A bit too Formula E for my liking.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
lamo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
It was lucky, but to give a bit of due credit, Ferrari's strategy of keeping Vettel out for those near 30 laps and being in the lead paid off when the VSC occurred. Vettel admitted that he'd been hoping for one. I wrongly bemoaned their doing so at the time, but going for broke worked for them this time.


Well Ferrari always pit Raikkonen first (if he's in Vettel's way) which then allows Vettel to push harder & extend his 1st stint. It's happened many times in 2017 as well.



Completely wrong.

Pitting first means you exit the pits and are much quicker than the car that stayed out. Kimi was extending his net gap to Vettel as Vettel stayed out. The only track this isn’t the case on is Monaco because it takes several laps to get heat into the new tyre. Vettel was going to exit the pits about 6-7 seconds behind Kimi today. He was 4 seconds behind Kimi when Kimi pitted, kimi had closed an additional 2 seconds whilst Vettel stayed out. Kimi was the quicker Ferrari driver today.


my problem with ferrari strategy is that it will always favour vettel no matter what the situation. this is based on closely watching them for the past 3 seasons. now i dont mean that vettel always ends up with the best strategy, they have screwed his up aswell, but the intention is always there to get him infront. if roles were reversed i firmly believe vettel would have pitted (probably slightly later) and kimi would have followed a lap later. keeping the positions. do you think ferrari would have let kimi keep lapping on the ultras like vettel did in the hope that he doesnt lose too much time and can finish the race on much better tyres and challenge vettel at the end. kimi was used to force hamiltons stop purely so vettel could try something different as that was the only way he was going to get either 1st or 2nd. the tyres were fine at that point and kimi was 1st to pit of the ultra runners. plus he was too far back for the undercut to work so what was the point apart from helping vettel.


How exactly does Ferrari strategy always favour Vettel?

Vettel was safe from 4th place Magnussen and Ferrari decided to hope on a hail Mary strategy with Vettel as other than the fortuitous VSC he was still going to finish 3rd so I don't get how he was favoured.
If he had stopped before Kimi and undercut him, you'd be here saying the same thing.


if vettel would have undercut kimi of course i would be saying the same. that would have been blatant. today wasnt blatant.

the problem is the clear no1 driver policy for vettel and hence competetive strategies against his team mate. in essence vettel will frequently do something different to kimi with strategy if it means he has a chance to get infront. whereas kimi very very rarely is allowed a strategy which means he may be a threat to vettel at some point. he will stick to a bog standard pit window or pit straight after vettel if he is behind.

now you may not have a problem with this but take kimis reaction after monaco and hungary last year. he was clearly fuming and im sure ferrari tell him he has equal opportunity but time after time the reality is the opposite. and it p**ses me off.

if you dont agree please explain why kimi was pitted when he was today. he was too far behind for the undercut. his ultras were in good nick and his lap times were good. would they have pitted him if vettel was say in 10th place for whatever reason. i doubt it. it was purely to compromise hamiton to the possible benefit vettel. ask yourself if you really think with roles were reversed they would have played out the same strategy.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Ah, so many geniuses concerning the inner workings of Ferrari strategy in here. If Ferrari had pitted Vettel first, the all-knowing would be saying exactly the same thing about Ferrari preferential treatment on strategy toward Vettel.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Ah, so many geniuses concerning the inner workings of Ferrari strategy in here. If Ferrari had pitted Vettel first, the all-knowing would be saying exactly the same thing about Ferrari preferential treatment on strategy toward Vettel.


you dont need to be a genuis. an idiot like me can spot it a mile off.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Blake wrote:
Ah, so many geniuses concerning the inner workings of Ferrari strategy in here. If Ferrari had pitted Vettel first, the all-knowing would be saying exactly the same thing about Ferrari preferential treatment on strategy toward Vettel.


you dont need to be a genuis. an idiot like me can spot it a mile off.

And always will...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:02 pm 
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Too bad both of the Red Bulls were in traffic the entire race. We never got to see how quick they were.

One thing is clear though. Ferrari are no match for Mercedes. The gap between them is substantial. At no point did Lewis really go 10/10 in this race and he had plenty of pace in hand over the Ferraris. Only the circuit prevented him from passing Vettel. I'm eager to see whether Red bull have similar race pace to Mercedes. Certainly Ricciardo looked quicker than Kimi during the last stint but, again, no real overtaking here.

I think it's clearly:

1. Mercedes
2. Red Bull
3. Ferrari

Although in qualifying it might be:

1.Mercedes
2. Ferrari
3. Red Bull


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:03 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Blake wrote:
Ah, so many geniuses concerning the inner workings of Ferrari strategy in here. If Ferrari had pitted Vettel first, the all-knowing would be saying exactly the same thing about Ferrari preferential treatment on strategy toward Vettel.


you dont need to be a genuis. an idiot like me can spot it a mile off.

And always will...


yep. ill no doubt be back for the next race. cut and paste.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:06 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Sorry but that's not accurate at all. Alonso was in 10th place on lap 22 before the pit stops began. He gained two positions over the next two laps when Sainz ran off track and when Max pit. Then the VSC period happened and both Haas drivers ahead of him went out of the race. Also he was able to jump Hulkenberg and Verstappen in the process. He went from net 9th to 5th without an on-track passing maneuver. From there he held his position against the Red Bull but passing on this track is impossible in these cars.


So how does that make what I said inaccurate in any way? Alonso finished ahead of 4 quicker cars. Three of them made major mistakes over the weekend.

Alonso made a major mistake in qualifying otherwise he'd have been in Q3. Look, it was a solid weekend for Fernando but nothing special. You claimed he worked his way up through the field but the reality is that he started 10th and was in 10th until the VSC leapfrogged him into 5th. He then maintained 5th simply because the track doesn't allow for overtaking. I know it's odd to realize this because Alonso has had nothing but bad luck these last few years but he caught a break today.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:24 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Too bad both of the Red Bulls were in traffic the entire race. We never got to see how quick they were.

One thing is clear though. Ferrari are no match for Mercedes. The gap between them is substantial. At no point did Lewis really go 10/10 in this race and he had plenty of pace in hand over the Ferraris. Only the circuit prevented him from passing Vettel. I'm eager to see whether Red bull have similar race pace to Mercedes. Certainly Ricciardo looked quicker than Kimi during the last stint but, again, no real overtaking here.

I think it's clearly:

1. Mercedes
2. Red Bull
3. Ferrari

Although in qualifying it might be:

1.Mercedes
2. Ferrari
3. Red Bull
I think max is still a little too up and down to put red bull ahead of Ferrari.

Fast driver, but wasn't particularly impressive today.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:31 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Too bad both of the Red Bulls were in traffic the entire race. We never got to see how quick they were.

One thing is clear though. Ferrari are no match for Mercedes. The gap between them is substantial. At no point did Lewis really go 10/10 in this race and he had plenty of pace in hand over the Ferraris. Only the circuit prevented him from passing Vettel. I'm eager to see whether Red bull have similar race pace to Mercedes. Certainly Ricciardo looked quicker than Kimi during the last stint but, again, no real overtaking here.

I think it's clearly:

1. Mercedes
2. Red Bull
3. Ferrari

Although in qualifying it might be:

1.Mercedes
2. Ferrari
3. Red Bull


This assumes Ferrari was going at 10/10th, Vettel just did enough to stay ahead likewise Kimi, I suppose using your theory Ricciardo's fastest lap being 5/10th quicker than anyone means Redbull is the fastest car in race trim.

Also Hamilton's fastest lap in the race was a mere 0.025 faster than Vettel so I guess perception trumps reality, same way through winter testing we heard Redbull was faster than Ferrari.

My advice wait till Barcelona before jumping to conclusion.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:38 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Too bad both of the Red Bulls were in traffic the entire race. We never got to see how quick they were.

One thing is clear though. Ferrari are no match for Mercedes. The gap between them is substantial. At no point did Lewis really go 10/10 in this race and he had plenty of pace in hand over the Ferraris. Only the circuit prevented him from passing Vettel. I'm eager to see whether Red bull have similar race pace to Mercedes. Certainly Ricciardo looked quicker than Kimi during the last stint but, again, no real overtaking here.

I think it's clearly:

1. Mercedes
2. Red Bull
3. Ferrari

Although in qualifying it might be:

1.Mercedes
2. Ferrari
3. Red Bull


This assumes Ferrari was going at 10/10th, Vettel just did enough to stay ahead likewise Kimi, I suppose using your theory Ricciardo's fastest lap being 5/10th quicker than anyone means Redbull is the fastest car in race trim.

Also Hamilton's fastest lap in the race was a mere 0.025 faster than Vettel so I guess perception trumps reality, same way through winter testing we heard Redbull was faster than Ferrari.

My advice wait till Barcelona before jumping to conclusion.

No it's not just perception. Vettel wasn't doing just enough to stay ahead. He was hounded but there was just no way past. Even when Lewis lost a couple of seconds by going off, he was able to close right back up to Vettel within a couple of laps. There is certainly still a need to see more before we can properly diagnose the situation but I think Mercedes (at least in Hamilton's hands) is clearly ahead of Ferrari right now. Red Bull are a bit of a mystery but I think they are marginally quicker than Ferrari during the race. They just never got to run in clean air.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Does anyone know why Hamilton backed off so much on the last lap? Did he have an issue?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:47 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Does anyone know why Hamilton backed off so much on the last lap? Did he have an issue?

He backed off with around 5 laps to go to save his engine.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:58 pm 
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Clarky wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Does anyone know why Hamilton backed off so much on the last lap? Did he have an issue?

He backed off with around 5 laps to go to save his engine.


Cheers :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:23 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Too bad both of the Red Bulls were in traffic the entire race. We never got to see how quick they were.

One thing is clear though. Ferrari are no match for Mercedes. The gap between them is substantial. At no point did Lewis really go 10/10 in this race and he had plenty of pace in hand over the Ferraris. Only the circuit prevented him from passing Vettel. I'm eager to see whether Red bull have similar race pace to Mercedes. Certainly Ricciardo looked quicker than Kimi during the last stint but, again, no real overtaking here.

I think it's clearly:

1. Mercedes
2. Red Bull
3. Ferrari

Although in qualifying it might be:

1.Mercedes
2. Ferrari
3. Red Bull


This assumes Ferrari was going at 10/10th, Vettel just did enough to stay ahead likewise Kimi, I suppose using your theory Ricciardo's fastest lap being 5/10th quicker than anyone means Redbull is the fastest car in race trim.

Also Hamilton's fastest lap in the race was a mere 0.025 faster than Vettel so I guess perception trumps reality, same way through winter testing we heard Redbull was faster than Ferrari.

My advice wait till Barcelona before jumping to conclusion.

No it's not just perception. Vettel wasn't doing just enough to stay ahead. He was hounded but there was just no way past. Even when Lewis lost a couple of seconds by going off, he was able to close right back up to Vettel within a couple of laps. There is certainly still a need to see more before we can properly diagnose the situation but I think Mercedes (at least in Hamilton's hands) is clearly ahead of Ferrari right now. Red Bull are a bit of a mystery but I think they are marginally quicker than Ferrari during the race. They just never got to run in clean air.


I see you are still missing point, the Ferrari didn't need to go any faster as Mercedes wasn't getting past also the prerogative to close up is up to the following car and not the car ahead, no point in making his tyres give up like Hamilton did.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:24 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Does anyone know why Hamilton backed off so much on the last lap? Did he have an issue?


He ran out of rear tyres according to Toto.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:46 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Too bad both of the Red Bulls were in traffic the entire race. We never got to see how quick they were.

One thing is clear though. Ferrari are no match for Mercedes. The gap between them is substantial. At no point did Lewis really go 10/10 in this race and he had plenty of pace in hand over the Ferraris. Only the circuit prevented him from passing Vettel. I'm eager to see whether Red bull have similar race pace to Mercedes. Certainly Ricciardo looked quicker than Kimi during the last stint but, again, no real overtaking here.

I think it's clearly:

1. Mercedes
2. Red Bull
3. Ferrari

Although in qualifying it might be:

1.Mercedes
2. Ferrari
3. Red Bull


This assumes Ferrari was going at 10/10th, Vettel just did enough to stay ahead likewise Kimi, I suppose using your theory Ricciardo's fastest lap being 5/10th quicker than anyone means Redbull is the fastest car in race trim.

Also Hamilton's fastest lap in the race was a mere 0.025 faster than Vettel so I guess perception trumps reality, same way through winter testing we heard Redbull was faster than Ferrari.

My advice wait till Barcelona before jumping to conclusion.

No it's not just perception. Vettel wasn't doing just enough to stay ahead. He was hounded but there was just no way past. Even when Lewis lost a couple of seconds by going off, he was able to close right back up to Vettel within a couple of laps. There is certainly still a need to see more before we can properly diagnose the situation but I think Mercedes (at least in Hamilton's hands) is clearly ahead of Ferrari right now. Red Bull are a bit of a mystery but I think they are marginally quicker than Ferrari during the race. They just never got to run in clean air.


I see you are still missing point, the Ferrari didn't need to go any faster as Mercedes wasn't getting past also the prerogative to close up is up to the following car and not the car ahead, no point in making his tyres give up like Hamilton did.


I still think if the relative pace was there, Vettel will have pulled away after the safety car - just because when he has had the pace there in the past, that has always been his way. Its the safer option.

I personally feel after watching the race that the Mercedes is the quicker race car, certainly over Ferrari. But this is based on Lewis' ability to gap Kimi during the first stint. Granted, not significantly - but towards the end of the stint when Bono radioed Lewis to think about the gap for the first round of stops, Lewis immediately banked a lap a half-second quicker to the fastest Ferrari behind. Its also based on Lewis push to get past Seb after the Safety Car. Granted, we dont know what sort of engine mode or how much the Ferrari was pushing, but Lewis certainly was - and his ability to close that 2.9 second gap after his lock up within 3/4 laps on older tyres was eye opening. For me, that would of been the time for Sebastien to push the gap as far as possible to kill off any challenge all together. That being said - Seb may have just been supremely confident that overtaking was near impossible so was content with the gap.

I think if Lewis puts it on pole this year and maintains positions through pit-stops, it will be his championship for the taking. But it will be interesting too see what happens when we get to some aero dependent tracks. I can see the Bulls being right there. That being said, Seb alluded to not being completely happy with his set-up, nor Ferrari with what they have extracted from the package so far. I think they are having issues understanding it completely with the switch to the long wheelbase. It seems they feel once they can get to grips with that correlation that they will indeed be quicker.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:58 pm 
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Posts: 316
I know overtaking is hard on this track but that race was very much line-a-sturn.

Ferrari and Merc off to a good start. Did Verstappen really have a issue with his diffuser or was that spin because of pushing too hard? I think the latter. Ricciardo should be in the Ferrari next year.

The midfield battle looks like it’s going to be epic this year - it’s so close.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:00 pm 
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Posts: 5447
Rockie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Too bad both of the Red Bulls were in traffic the entire race. We never got to see how quick they were.

One thing is clear though. Ferrari are no match for Mercedes. The gap between them is substantial. At no point did Lewis really go 10/10 in this race and he had plenty of pace in hand over the Ferraris. Only the circuit prevented him from passing Vettel. I'm eager to see whether Red bull have similar race pace to Mercedes. Certainly Ricciardo looked quicker than Kimi during the last stint but, again, no real overtaking here.

I think it's clearly:

1. Mercedes
2. Red Bull
3. Ferrari

Although in qualifying it might be:

1.Mercedes
2. Ferrari
3. Red Bull


This assumes Ferrari was going at 10/10th, Vettel just did enough to stay ahead likewise Kimi, I suppose using your theory Ricciardo's fastest lap being 5/10th quicker than anyone means Redbull is the fastest car in race trim.

Also Hamilton's fastest lap in the race was a mere 0.025 faster than Vettel so I guess perception trumps reality, same way through winter testing we heard Redbull was faster than Ferrari.

My advice wait till Barcelona before jumping to conclusion.

No it's not just perception. Vettel wasn't doing just enough to stay ahead. He was hounded but there was just no way past. Even when Lewis lost a couple of seconds by going off, he was able to close right back up to Vettel within a couple of laps. There is certainly still a need to see more before we can properly diagnose the situation but I think Mercedes (at least in Hamilton's hands) is clearly ahead of Ferrari right now. Red Bull are a bit of a mystery but I think they are marginally quicker than Ferrari during the race. They just never got to run in clean air.


I see you are still missing point, the Ferrari didn't need to go any faster as Mercedes wasn't getting past also the prerogative to close up is up to the following car and not the car ahead, no point in making his tyres give up like Hamilton did.

If you truly believe that Ferrari are on par with Mercedes and that Vettel had pace in hand at the end of the race then we can agree to disagree.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:31 pm 
Rockie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Too bad both of the Red Bulls were in traffic the entire race. We never got to see how quick they were.

One thing is clear though. Ferrari are no match for Mercedes. The gap between them is substantial. At no point did Lewis really go 10/10 in this race and he had plenty of pace in hand over the Ferraris. Only the circuit prevented him from passing Vettel. I'm eager to see whether Red bull have similar race pace to Mercedes. Certainly Ricciardo looked quicker than Kimi during the last stint but, again, no real overtaking here.

I think it's clearly:

1. Mercedes
2. Red Bull
3. Ferrari

Although in qualifying it might be:

1.Mercedes
2. Ferrari
3. Red Bull


This assumes Ferrari was going at 10/10th, Vettel just did enough to stay ahead likewise Kimi, I suppose using your theory Ricciardo's fastest lap being 5/10th quicker than anyone means Redbull is the fastest car in race trim.

Also Hamilton's fastest lap in the race was a mere 0.025 faster than Vettel so I guess perception trumps reality, same way through winter testing we heard Redbull was faster than Ferrari.

My advice wait till Barcelona before jumping to conclusion.

No it's not just perception. Vettel wasn't doing just enough to stay ahead. He was hounded but there was just no way past. Even when Lewis lost a couple of seconds by going off, he was able to close right back up to Vettel within a couple of laps. There is certainly still a need to see more before we can properly diagnose the situation but I think Mercedes (at least in Hamilton's hands) is clearly ahead of Ferrari right now. Red Bull are a bit of a mystery but I think they are marginally quicker than Ferrari during the race. They just never got to run in clean air.


I see you are still missing point, the Ferrari didn't need to go any faster as Mercedes wasn't getting past also the prerogative to close up is up to the following car and not the car ahead, no point in making his tyres give up like Hamilton did.


It’s fair to assume both Kimi and Vettel pushed in the final stint. Hamilton was getting within 0.5 at the end of the straight, there is no way you let a car get within 0.5. Vettel was 1 small error from being overtaken. He would have kept Hamilton at around 2 seconds at least if he had the pace too. The same for Kimi who himself did make a mistake in turn 1 and Ricciardo very nearly overtook him.

Hamilton was significantly quicker than Vettel in both stints. Stint 1, he built a 6.5 second lead over him. Stint 2, he was quicker than him whilst having tyres 7 laps older.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:47 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Rockie wrote:

I see you are still missing point, the Ferrari didn't need to go any faster as Mercedes wasn't getting past also the prerogative to close up is up to the following car and not the car ahead, no point in making his tyres give up like Hamilton did.


It’s fair to assume both Kimi and Vettel pushed in the final stint. Hamilton was getting within 0.5 at the end of the straight, there is no way you let a car get within 0.5. Vettel was 1 small error from being overtaken. He would have kept Hamilton at around 2 seconds at least if he had the pace too. The same for Kimi who himself did make a mistake in turn 1 and Ricciardo very nearly overtook him.


I have to agree, I don't think that Seb, nor Kimi, were just managing the gap. Not keeping it that close, In this race at least, Ferrari did not have the pace that the Merc's had and that is worrisome. However, it is sweet to "steal" results, even more a win when you don't have the fastest car.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:41 pm 
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Posts: 594
Well at least the VSC injected a little life into the race even if t was very harsh on Hamilton and Kimi, and as has become expected at Albert Park, overtaking never really looked on the cards. Think there are some overreactions on the VSC front though. Generally it is a step in the right direction in terms of taking luck out of the equation and still has much less impact than a full safety car. Safety car may not have helped Vettel in this instance, but can mix things up a lot more with cars either getting a free pit stop, or worse case dropping right back if the gaps have already begun to close up. Perhaps I have got that wrong, but doesn't change the fact that the much bigger issue is around the aero regs and lack of overtaking particularly at circuits like this. Wouldn't have been as much of an issue at many other tracks, although that is only going to get worse this season and in the future unfortunately as the cars get quicker.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:40 am 
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Posts: 297
PzR Slim wrote:
Every driver to pit every lap under the VSC from now on?

If you are anywhere remotely near your pit window this is clearly the way to go. Free money. Lets call it the MUC - Mega Under Cut.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:27 am 
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Posts: 662
WHoff78 wrote:
Well at least the VSC injected a little life into the race even if t was very harsh on Hamilton and Kimi, and as has become expected at Albert Park, overtaking never really looked on the cards. Think there are some overreactions on the VSC front though. Generally it is a step in the right direction in terms of taking luck out of the equation and still has much less impact than a full safety car. Safety car may not have helped Vettel in this instance, but can mix things up a lot more with cars either getting a free pit stop, or worse case dropping right back if the gaps have already begun to close up. Perhaps I have got that wrong, but doesn't change the fact that the much bigger issue is around the aero regs and lack of overtaking particularly at circuits like this. Wouldn't have been as much of an issue at many other tracks, although that is only going to get worse this season and in the future unfortunately as the cars get quicker.

To be honest, it killed it for me - completely artificial. Next race no doubt we will see the drivers with green and red shells and banana skins.


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