planetf1.com

It is currently Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:12 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 1370
F1_Ernie wrote:
Rockie wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:

"But the evidence of this weekend suggests that Ferrari is now running its spec 2 engine much more aggressively than when it was introduced. The starts, the restarts, the GPS traces of not just the works cars but also the Haas and Saubers suggest that the Ferrari has got a small but significant power advantage over Mercedes."

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/repo ... rix-report

Mark Hughes said this in his report, of course this gets disregarded by a select few as biased but it is just his opinion and based on Silverstone. Others made the same reference regarding the Ferrari engine this weekend.


Yes it's based on his opinion and others have different opinions as well, when the Mercedes engine 2.1 came out and they said they could turn it up more if they wanted all were giddy about it, but now somehow without a different spec engine same one introduced, Ferrari have turned it up just at Silverstone quite laughable.


Who was giddy about it? Of course Ferrari having any advantage is always a no in your books, the constant theme of Vettel is fighting a better car is more appropriate.


Why do you need to go the other way all the time?

I responded to a post nothing about the drivers just about the engine but your insecurities as regard who you support, leads to this response.

Mercedes in their press release said they have a higher mode in qualifying they can use with the latest update.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:52 pm
Posts: 2699
Rockie wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Rockie wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:

"But the evidence of this weekend suggests that Ferrari is now running its spec 2 engine much more aggressively than when it was introduced. The starts, the restarts, the GPS traces of not just the works cars but also the Haas and Saubers suggest that the Ferrari has got a small but significant power advantage over Mercedes."

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/repo ... rix-report

Mark Hughes said this in his report, of course this gets disregarded by a select few as biased but it is just his opinion and based on Silverstone. Others made the same reference regarding the Ferrari engine this weekend.


Yes it's based on his opinion and others have different opinions as well, when the Mercedes engine 2.1 came out and they said they could turn it up more if they wanted all were giddy about it, but now somehow without a different spec engine same one introduced, Ferrari have turned it up just at Silverstone quite laughable.


Who was giddy about it? Of course Ferrari having any advantage is always a no in your books, the constant theme of Vettel is fighting a better car is more appropriate.


Why do you need to go the other way all the time?

I responded to a post nothing about the drivers just about the engine but your insecurities as regard who you support, leads to this response.

Mercedes in their press release said they have a higher mode in qualifying they can use with the latest update.


Coming from the person who puts down a certain driver at every given opportunity :lol:

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 1370
F1_Ernie wrote:
Rockie wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Rockie wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:

"But the evidence of this weekend suggests that Ferrari is now running its spec 2 engine much more aggressively than when it was introduced. The starts, the restarts, the GPS traces of not just the works cars but also the Haas and Saubers suggest that the Ferrari has got a small but significant power advantage over Mercedes."

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/repo ... rix-report

Mark Hughes said this in his report, of course this gets disregarded by a select few as biased but it is just his opinion and based on Silverstone. Others made the same reference regarding the Ferrari engine this weekend.


Yes it's based on his opinion and others have different opinions as well, when the Mercedes engine 2.1 came out and they said they could turn it up more if they wanted all were giddy about it, but now somehow without a different spec engine same one introduced, Ferrari have turned it up just at Silverstone quite laughable.


Who was giddy about it? Of course Ferrari having any advantage is always a no in your books, the constant theme of Vettel is fighting a better car is more appropriate.


Why do you need to go the other way all the time?

I responded to a post nothing about the drivers just about the engine but your insecurities as regard who you support, leads to this response.

Mercedes in their press release said they have a higher mode in qualifying they can use with the latest update.


Coming from the person who puts down a certain driver at every given opportunity :lol:


Really where?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 11393
Johnson wrote:
Edit, just checked calendar, its more Singapore on wards that will be Ferrari I feel. 3 of the next 4 should be pretty kind to Mercedes tbh.


I'm curious for Spa and Monza. Ferrari were pretty competitive last year in Spa so they could be this year as well.

_________________
Go Vandoorne - Verstappen - Vettel!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:00 pm
Posts: 4733
gregs51 wrote:
Mod Blue wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Why did This require a new thread? There’s alrready a Merc/Ferrari/Red Bull thread where this could’ve gone.


Agreed - Merged into the appropriate thread.


RaggedMan was that guy in school that reminded the teacher they'd not set any homework this week.

How does that situation equate to my post? Sorry if your feelings were hurt by me bringing up the fact that you started a thread to state an opinion that fits perfectly within an existing thread. Having 2 threads discussing the same thing makes no sense and clutters up the main forum.

_________________
{Insert clever sig line here}


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:42 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 1704
https://streamable.com/hg6gd

https://streamable.com/vh89e

Nico Rosberg decisively states that Ferrari are leading in power now.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 1370
Invade wrote:
https://streamable.com/hg6gd

https://streamable.com/vh89e

Nico Rosberg decisively states that Ferrari are leading in power now.


Haa yes since he has got access to the actual Ferrari engine data, not even Mercedes does he have access to their current data.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 1195
Location: London
Rockie wrote:
Invade wrote:
https://streamable.com/hg6gd

https://streamable.com/vh89e

Nico Rosberg decisively states that Ferrari are leading in power now.


Haa yes since he has got access to the actual Ferrari engine data, not even Mercedes does he have access to their current data.


So unless you see actual Ferrari and Merc dyno data, you will never condede based upon track performance or expert opinion. Makes this entire discussion pointless.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23034
Wasn't sure whether to put this in the race thread but in the end decided on here as it's performance-relates between the three front running teams.

Interesting quote from Kimi where he says the Mercedes is a lot easier to follow than the Red Bulls. I know there's been a lot of talk about how the Merc struggles to follow, but may be it's as much to do with the cars they at following (ie easy for Ferrari to follow Merc, not for Merc to follow Ferrari or Merc/Ferrari to follow Red Bull) as with the following car itself, if that makes sense

Overtaking was difficult, and I fought against the Red Bulls for many laps. When I was on my own the speed was ok, but once I was behind them, their wake seemed to affect my car a lot more than the Mercedes did; I was losing a lot of downforce and that upset the balance of the car

http://www.f1i.com/magazine/310383-team-talk-sunday-silverstone-2.html


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 1370
Lojik wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Invade wrote:
https://streamable.com/hg6gd

https://streamable.com/vh89e

Nico Rosberg decisively states that Ferrari are leading in power now.


Haa yes since he has got access to the actual Ferrari engine data, not even Mercedes does he have access to their current data.


So unless you see actual Ferrari and Merc dyno data, you will never condede based upon track performance or expert opinion. Makes this entire discussion pointless.


So you thought there was a point behind this discussion asides from Mercedes fans wanting to say the Ferrari is the more powerful engine.

As all point to Ferrari engine being better and nothing else, and that video is bias confirmation.

I mean just at Austria Mercedes were talking about a more powerful qualy mode and could have gone faster if the wanted to.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:15 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 1370
Zoue wrote:
Wasn't sure whether to put this in the race thread but in the end decided on here as it's performance-relates between the three front running teams.

Interesting quote from Kimi where he says the Mercedes is a lot easier to follow than the Red Bulls. I know there's been a lot of talk about how the Merc struggles to follow, but may be it's as much to do with the cars they at following (ie easy for Ferrari to follow Merc, not for Merc to follow Ferrari or Merc/Ferrari to follow Red Bull) as with the following car itself, if that makes sense

Overtaking was difficult, and I fought against the Red Bulls for many laps. When I was on my own the speed was ok, but once I was behind them, their wake seemed to affect my car a lot more than the Mercedes did; I was losing a lot of downforce and that upset the balance of the car

http://www.f1i.com/magazine/310383-team-talk-sunday-silverstone-2.html


Any car that is properly developed in this aero era will exhibit that kind of characteristics, think I've heard someone say this exact thing about the Ferrari as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 1195
Location: London
Rockie wrote:
So you thought there was a point behind this discussion asides from Mercedes fans wanting to say the Ferrari is the more powerful engine.


Or Ferrari fans desepate to paint the Merc as the better engine? And that's the whole problem isn't it. So many see any discussion here as Ferrari/Vettel vs Merc/Hamilton, and everything they say is based on that position. There actually is an interesting conversation to be had about the improvements to both teams PUs and who is pulling ahead or falling behind at any given point. Trouble is that any discussion like that is drowned under a sea of partisan crap.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 1370
Lojik wrote:
Rockie wrote:
So you thought there was a point behind this discussion asides from Mercedes fans wanting to say the Ferrari is the more powerful engine.


Or Ferrari fans desepate to paint the Merc as the better engine? And that's the whole problem isn't it. So many see any discussion here as Ferrari/Vettel vs Merc/Hamilton, and everything they say is based on that position. There actually is an interesting conversation to be had about the improvements to both teams PUs and who is pulling ahead or falling behind at any given point. Trouble is that any discussion like that is drowned under a sea of partisan crap.


I'd say more of people not paying attention to what is happening as Ferrari tries to take control of F1.

Now people focus on the engine saying Ferrari powered teams means the Ferrari engine is best neglecting the fact that asides the engine Haas basically take all help allowed within the rules from Ferrari.

As for Sauber Ferrari let Simone Resta join them as technical director without gardening leave since Alfa Romeo has invested in them, Resta designed the current Ferrari watch where the Sauber ends up this year and where it starts next year, it's equivalent to Redbull sending Dan Fallows to Toro Rosso as TD.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 6118
Lojik wrote:
Rockie wrote:
So you thought there was a point behind this discussion asides from Mercedes fans wanting to say the Ferrari is the more powerful engine.


Or Ferrari fans desepate to paint the Merc as the better engine? And that's the whole problem isn't it. So many see any discussion here as Ferrari/Vettel vs Merc/Hamilton, and everything they say is based on that position. There actually is an interesting conversation to be had about the improvements to both teams PUs and who is pulling ahead or falling behind at any given point. Trouble is that any discussion like that is drowned under a sea of partisan crap.


I am not sure about the Ferrari fans part of your post. All these years the Merc was THE PU to have. This year finally we have some engine parity, so if nothing else I'd expect Ferrari fans to be happy!

Personally I believe that they are very very close. If the Merc is 5/10 HP more than Ferrari or the opposite, it doesn't matter much. These are tiny amounts, the aero/gearbox/setups play much much more importance in the final overall package. We've seen RB taking the WDC and leaving the others miles behind without having the most powerful engine. One thing is certain; Ferrari PU is much better than in recent years and the Merc advantage is gone. Finally a close WDC!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 1195
Location: London
Siao7 wrote:
Personally I believe that they are very very close. If the Merc is 5/10 HP more than Ferrari or the opposite, it doesn't matter much. These are tiny amounts, the aero/gearbox/setups play much much more importance in the final overall package. We've seen RB taking the WDC and leaving the others miles behind without having the most powerful engine. One thing is certain; Ferrari PU is much better than in recent years and the Merc advantage is gone. Finally a close WDC!


Now that I agree with. I think it's too close to call between the two PUs, and at this point it's differences in the overall packages and driver performance that are making the difference and when you have 2 more or less evenly matched cars and 2 more or less evenly matched drivers you would expect to see the back and forth in results that we are actually seeing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 23034
Lojik wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Personally I believe that they are very very close. If the Merc is 5/10 HP more than Ferrari or the opposite, it doesn't matter much. These are tiny amounts, the aero/gearbox/setups play much much more importance in the final overall package. We've seen RB taking the WDC and leaving the others miles behind without having the most powerful engine. One thing is certain; Ferrari PU is much better than in recent years and the Merc advantage is gone. Finally a close WDC!


Now that I agree with. I think it's too close to call between the two PUs, and at this point it's differences in the overall packages and driver performance that are making the difference and when you have 2 more or less evenly matched cars and 2 more or less evenly matched drivers you would expect to see the back and forth in results that we are actually seeing.

:thumbup:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:01 pm
Posts: 583
The points raised above about aero and difficulty to follow may well tie-in with the Ferrrari having the more powerful PU. Agree that there is little between the teams now which is great. Ferrari does seem harder to follow so there is a possibility that they have a better PU and give up some of there aero performance because the car is designed to create more dirty air. This make sense because they have been playing catch-up so have needed to give more thought to how their car behaves in the pack both following and chasing. Mercedes have been leading from the front for a while so are likely to chose more efficient aero over a design which generates more dirty air to try and retain that advantage. Still think that the driver combination of Hamilton and Bottas has a tenth or two advantage over Vettel/Raikonnen by the time their strengths and favoured tracks even out over the season as well but it is more than clear where the lines are drawn on that matter for various posters so more of a side note.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 6118
WHoff78 wrote:
The points raised above about aero and difficulty to follow may well tie-in with the Ferrrari having the more powerful PU. Agree that there is little between the teams now which is great. Ferrari does seem harder to follow so there is a possibility that they have a better PU and give up some of there aero performance because the car is designed to create more dirty air. This make sense because they have been playing catch-up so have needed to give more thought to how their car behaves in the pack both following and chasing. Mercedes have been leading from the front for a while so are likely to chose more efficient aero over a design which generates more dirty air to try and retain that advantage. Still think that the driver combination of Hamilton and Bottas has a tenth or two advantage over Vettel/Raikonnen by the time their strengths and favoured tracks even out over the season as well but it is more than clear where the lines are drawn on that matter for various posters so more of a side note.


This may very well be. But at this level the cars seem fairly equal and driver performances weigh perhaps a tad more. That's my opinion, but what do I know?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:41 am
Posts: 183
Invade wrote:
https://streamable.com/hg6gd

https://streamable.com/vh89e

Nico Rosberg decisively states that Ferrari are leading in power now.




Horner, once again, stating likewise:


https://www.planetf1.com/news/horner-fe ... benchmark/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9215
Although they are much closer in performance compared to last year, it's funny that it seems the tables have turned in that Ferrari may have an advantage on the straights while Mercedes are stronger on the twisty parts.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:07 am
Posts: 11393
Covalent wrote:
Although they are much closer in performance compared to last year, it's funny that it seems the tables have turned in that Ferrari may have an advantage on the straights while Mercedes are stronger on the twisty parts.


Isn't it so that Ferrari are better in low-speed cornering and traction out of them, and Mercedes reigns high-speed cornering?

I'm holding out to see what Spa and Monza bring. Ferrari were close in Spa last year, so they might bring a good challenge to Mercedes this year as well.

_________________
Go Vandoorne - Verstappen - Vettel!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 6118
Ferrari have gone long wheel this year don't forget, they have changed to the short wheel base from last year


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 4869
Invade wrote:
https://streamable.com/hg6gd

https://streamable.com/vh89e

Nico Rosberg decisively states that Ferrari are leading in power now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxNisfvk35s

And you can see it from how Hamilton and Vettel approach trying to maximize their lap time.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Lotus49, Mod Titanium, owenmahamilton and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group