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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:03 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's different because the other driver has also had 2 tries, I doubt that Hamilton just sits in the pits after his first run, also the fact that Hamilton went 9 tenths quicker in Q3 makes what Bottas did in Q2 needing 2 goes at it just to match Hamilton somewhat redundant.

It doesn't make it redundant at all. There could be any number of reasons why Bottas didn't get a good lap in. Doesn't mean he couldn't.

You can make all manner of justifications, but it's still wholly speculation on what Bottas may or may not have done in Q3. It's enough to say that Hamilton did a better job, but you simply cannot extrapolate times from it. Kimi was slower than Vettel in Q2, but turned that around in Q1. Proof that Q2 times don't always equate to Q3 ones.

Well you know it would have been nice if I could had continued the conversation on with the actual poster who I was talking to instead of going back over old ground of how unremarkable Hamilton's Australian pole lap was.
there was nothing to stop you continuing with them. Nothing at all. You still can, in fact.

If you make a claim on a public forum that doesn't stand up to scrutiny then you can't complain when you are called out on it. If you want a private conversation, then PM them. This is always how forums have worked and someone with your post count is well aware of that.

And nobody talked about how unremarkable Hamilton's Australian pole lap was. I just pointed out you couldn't assume that he would have given Bottas "a whopping." I can't help it if you draw extra conclusions from that

Your interventions lost the flow of the discussion I was trying to make, the gap between Hamilton and Bottas is 0.05s and that's not going to change, I'm not really one for pming people.

Then you just have to accept that your discussions are public and subject to input from others, I'm afraid


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:51 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
Expect Merc dominance again


based on? them having a less powerful engine than Ferrari?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:53 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Expect Merc dominance again


based on? them having a less powerful engine than Ferrari?

yes, that would be it :uhoh:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:56 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Expect Merc dominance again


based on? them having a less powerful engine than Ferrari?

yes, that would be it :uhoh:


Please enlighten us.

Reminder - we're not in 2015 anymore. ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:00 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Expect Merc dominance again


based on? them having a less powerful engine than Ferrari?

yes, that would be it :uhoh:


Please enlighten us.

Reminder - we're not in 2015 anymore. ;)

The rolling eyes were based on the fact that it was a stupid question, designed it seems purely to elicit a facetious response. You could have simply asked why, of course.

I'm assuming AnRs believes that Merc have gotten the hang of their tyre issues, although I can't speak for him/her. It's impossible to say, of course, so I think they are being premature, especially given how performance has fluctuated. It's not completely outlandish, however


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:36 am 
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davidheath461 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Expect Merc dominance again


based on? them having a less powerful engine than Ferrari?


Do they? Or does Merc have to turn theirs down because off tyres, and perhaps getting a grip on them now?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:08 am 
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AnRs wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Expect Merc dominance again


based on? them having a less powerful engine than Ferrari?


Do they? Or does Merc have to turn theirs down because off tyres, and perhaps getting a grip on them now?


Is there any evidence to even suggest turning down the engine would do anything for the tyres? Let alone if that's what Merc have been doing?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:11 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Expect Merc dominance again


based on? them having a less powerful engine than Ferrari?


Do they? Or does Merc have to turn theirs down because off tyres, and perhaps getting a grip on them now?


Is there any evidence to even suggest turning down the engine would do anything for the tyres? Let alone if that's what Merc have been doing?


Hard to explain their on one side dominant performances, and then fall back a bit, no other team IMO looks to have so much power "locked in"


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:20 am 
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AnRs wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Expect Merc dominance again


based on? them having a less powerful engine than Ferrari?


Do they? Or does Merc have to turn theirs down because off tyres, and perhaps getting a grip on them now?


Is there any evidence to even suggest turning down the engine would do anything for the tyres? Let alone if that's what Merc have been doing?


Hard to explain their on one side dominant performances, and then fall back a bit, no other team IMO looks to have so much power "locked in"


Doesn't look engine related though, it just seems the chassis works better on harder tyres to varying degrees. They did revert to an older spec of oil after Australia but I think most of the up and down nature of their season is chassis related in how they work the tyres.

Engine wise they lack a bit in peak power to Ferrari but have a similar advantage themselves in efficiency in the race apparently.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:01 am 
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Mercedes struggled with the HS graining in the race more than Ferrari and RB, doubt it's engine related. Fine over one lap though.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:34 am 
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Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Expect Merc dominance again


based on? them having a less powerful engine than Ferrari?

yes, that would be it :uhoh:

It seems that we take straight line speed as a measure of engine power only when it suits?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:54 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Expect Merc dominance again


based on? them having a less powerful engine than Ferrari?

yes, that would be it :uhoh:

It seems that we take straight line speed as a measure of engine power only when it suits?

er, what?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Today was the closest qualifying session we have had this season between the top 3 teams.

Ferrari marginally ahead of Mercedes, who are ahead of Red Bull by a slightly bigger margin. Verstappen was the best performer today.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:45 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Today was the closest qualifying session we have had this season between the top 3 teams.

Ferrari marginally ahead of Mercedes, who are ahead of Red Bull by a slightly bigger margin. Verstappen was the best performer today.

My initIal thought was that Ferrari was quickest, too. But then I looked at the qualifying times and Bottas was only 0.081s off Vettel's pole time, so I'm not so sure. Hamilton clearly had some kind of set up issue, but otherwise he had as good a chance to take it as anyone.

Seb did admit to a small mistake, so maybe the Ferrari was capable of more, but I'm inclined to call it a tie on the car front. I think if Mercedes had brought their new PU it would have been a different story altogether.

Agree that Verstappen has been on it all day today.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Bottas did a very good job but Hamilton definitely lost something. I agree that it's a tie in qualifying and give Vettel the benefit of the doubt over Bottas a general rule (rightly or wrongly) and assume that if Ham had hooked up a lap he'd have snatched pole himself.

Red Bull were clearly third best and Max Verstappen was clearly the best performer. Actually, I'd say he put in one of the laps of the season.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:12 pm 
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Put Alonso, Hamilton or Ricciardo in that Ferrari and it would probably win every race this season. Still the car to beat.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:18 pm 
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Warheart01 wrote:
Put Alonso, Hamilton or Ricciardo in that Ferrari and it would probably win every race this season. Still the car to beat.


Such hyperbole.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:26 pm 
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How delusional does one have to be to believe that Ferrari was capable of winning in Spain.

Even Monaco would have been very difficult despite Ricciardo’s engine problem.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:27 pm 
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Warheart01 wrote:
Put Alonso, Hamilton or Ricciardo in that Ferrari and it would probably win every race this season. Still the car to beat.


What rot.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:13 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
How delusional does one have to be to believe that Ferrari was capable of winning in Spain.

Even Monaco would have been very difficult despite Ricciardo’s engine problem.


Surely they are on a wind up?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:11 am 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
How delusional does one have to be to believe that Ferrari was capable of winning in Spain.

Even Monaco would have been very difficult despite Ricciardo’s engine problem.


Surely they are on a wind up?

Looking at his post history, no. He's a Hamilton fan who believes that Rosberg was an average driver.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:07 am 
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Rosberg is an average driver. Alot of average drivers has become WDC. Anyway, back on topic.
Alonso, Hamilton and Ricciardo winning every race might be a bit of a stretch I'll admit, they could still get Maxed out of hit by someone else, and Hamiltons car is known for catching fire.

Yes, my posts are over the limit alot of times and sarcastic etc, that's the fun part with a forum, banter!
But atleast I'm not wishing for the competition to crash out or be taken out like I've seen some Vettel fans hope happening to Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:56 pm 
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Kimi is great for Vettel in the sense he won't fight him for the championship but surely you want a number 2 who can stand up and be counted when it matters. Kimi should have qualified ahead of Hamilton in Baku and Canada, these can be race changing moments which having a rear gunner can influence races. When Kimi does get on the front row he fails to deliver, Bahrain and China (but that was due to Vettel). Not even sure what Kimi does to warrant the seat anymore apart from be Vettels perfect choice.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:27 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Kimi is great for Vettel in the sense he won't fight him for the championship but surely you want a number 2 who can stand up and be counted when it matters. Kimi should have qualified ahead of Hamilton in Baku and Canada, these can be race changing moments which having a rear gunner can influence races. When Kimi does get on the front row he fails to deliver, Bahrain and China (but that was due to Vettel). Not even sure what Kimi does to warrant the seat anymore apart from be Vettels perfect choice.


I agree that I don't see what Kimi does to warrant the seat but is he even Vettel's perfect choice? I'd imagine that Vettel would want someone who is closer to him but he could still beat 90% of the time, and therefore as you mention be able to act as a rear gunner and take points off title rivals. It was mentioned when Hamilton had his off weekend in Russia last year and grid penalty in Austria that Bottas was good enough to take 7 points from Vettel at both races. I doubt Kimi would be able to do that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:41 pm 
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Warheart01 wrote:
Rosberg is an average driver. Alot of average drivers has become WDC. Anyway, back on topic.
Alonso, Hamilton and Ricciardo winning every race might be a bit of a stretch I'll admit, they could still get Maxed out of hit by someone else, and Hamiltons car is known for catching fire.

Yes, my posts are over the limit alot of times and sarcastic etc, that's the fun part with a forum, banter!
But atleast I'm not wishing for the competition to crash out or be taken out like I've seen some Vettel fans hope happening to Hamilton.

If Rosberg were truly an "average" driver then what would that say about the likes of Lewis Hamilton (who he was quite competitive with) and Michael Schumacher (who he dominated)? I think your statement is totally illogical considering your other positions. Nico Rosberg is clearly not "average".


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Yeah he's in danger of going too far the other way like Massa did. No threat to Alonso but no help either.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:11 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Yeah he's in danger of going too far the other way like Massa did. No threat to Alonso but no help either.

I thought that Massa’s performance at Brazil 2012 was one of the best #2 performances I have ever seen in a championship fight.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Warheart01 wrote:
Put Alonso, Hamilton or Ricciardo in that Ferrari and it would probably win every race this season. Still the car to beat.


On a weekend where Hamilton was just beaten by his team mate in qualifying, the irony!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:07 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Yeah he's in danger of going too far the other way like Massa did. No threat to Alonso but no help either.

I thought that Massa’s performance at Brazil 2012 was one of the best #2 performances I have ever seen in a championship fight.


It was very good yeah but that's about the only help he was, generally he couldn't finish in front of Seb often enough.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:56 pm 
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Ferrari > Mercedes > Red Bull


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:52 am 
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Usually RBR's race pace is better than its quali pace. It was the opposite today. Can't really explain this.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:01 am 
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Two reasons:

1. The final gap in qualifying flattered Red Bull. Max was the star performer in Q3. I think that the actual gap between Ferrari and RB was closer to 0.300s than 0.173s.

2. Ferrari had an engine update for this race to improve efficiency. Lauda commented on how Vettel had to do less fuel saving than in previous races. Ferrari’s race pace improved.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:27 am 
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The Ferrari is dominant, the Mercedes is now a dog.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:27 am 
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I think the cars were not that far apart this weekend and it's more difficult to pick a clear cut winner than appears at first glance.

Vettel beat Bottas by less than a tenth in qualifying, so it's impossible to say what was car and what was driver. And in the race Bottas wasn't miles away. Hamilton was lacklustre at the beginning but managed to put pressure on Ricciardo at the end, so had pace: he just wasn't able to use it for much of the race. And Kimi was dropped by all of them (although I think his strategy was messed up once again). I think Mercedes have cause to be happy that their car performed as well as it did against others with upgraded PUs and should be looking forward to their own upgrades which might even propel them ahead.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:29 am 
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Warheart01 wrote:
The Ferrari is dominant, the Mercedes is now a dog.

I know you like your hyperbole but that's out there. Losing pole by less than a tenth means the car is far from a dog. They finished 2nd in the race. I think half the grid would love to have that dog


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:00 am 
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Zoue wrote:
I think the cars were not that far apart this weekend and it's more difficult to pick a clear cut winner than appears at first glance.

Vettel beat Bottas by less than a tenth in qualifying, so it's impossible to say what was car and what was driver. And in the race Bottas wasn't miles away. Hamilton was lacklustre at the beginning but managed to put pressure on Ricciardo at the end, so had pace: he just wasn't able to use it for much of the race. And Kimi was dropped by all of them (although I think his strategy was messed up once again). I think Mercedes have cause to be happy that their car performed as well as it did against others with upgraded PUs and should be looking forward to their own upgrades which might even propel them ahead.


Ferrari was the better car for the weekend.

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Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:08 am 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I think the cars were not that far apart this weekend and it's more difficult to pick a clear cut winner than appears at first glance.

Vettel beat Bottas by less than a tenth in qualifying, so it's impossible to say what was car and what was driver. And in the race Bottas wasn't miles away. Hamilton was lacklustre at the beginning but managed to put pressure on Ricciardo at the end, so had pace: he just wasn't able to use it for much of the race. And Kimi was dropped by all of them (although I think his strategy was messed up once again). I think Mercedes have cause to be happy that their car performed as well as it did against others with upgraded PUs and should be looking forward to their own upgrades which might even propel them ahead.


Ferrari was the better car for the weekend.
hmm, I'm having a little trouble following your reasoning. Perhaps some detail might help?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:12 am 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Ferrari was the better car for the weekend.

Or Hamilton didn't extract the maximum from the Mercedes?

There's two or three ways to read it, and only one of them really means that the Ferrari was better.

1) Ferrari genuinely was better, and Bottas had a very strong weekend to be so close to them.
2) Bottas being within a tenth means that an on-form Hamilton would have qualified on pole and likely won.
3) Ferrari wasn't great, but both Vettel and Bottas put in great drives to overshadow their teammates.

I'm inclined to think it was a weak performance from Hamilton, and the cars were equal. Bottas qualifying a tenth behind Vettel and finishing roughly that amount per lap behind in the end is indicative of the basic pace gap between Vettel and Bottas (if not less than); in a dominant Ferrari, Vettel would have been farther ahead. Hamilton just had a poor weekend, as evidenced by his repeated mistakes in qualifying.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:13 am 
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Zoue wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I think the cars were not that far apart this weekend and it's more difficult to pick a clear cut winner than appears at first glance.

Vettel beat Bottas by less than a tenth in qualifying, so it's impossible to say what was car and what was driver. And in the race Bottas wasn't miles away. Hamilton was lacklustre at the beginning but managed to put pressure on Ricciardo at the end, so had pace: he just wasn't able to use it for much of the race. And Kimi was dropped by all of them (although I think his strategy was messed up once again). I think Mercedes have cause to be happy that their car performed as well as it did against others with upgraded PUs and should be looking forward to their own upgrades which might even propel them ahead.


Ferrari was the better car for the weekend.
hmm, I'm having a little trouble following your reasoning. Perhaps some detail might help?


Come on now, you need to be consistent. Last year you would have said Mercedes was quicker, this year you would have said Mercedes was quicker, when it's Ferrari its equal.

Ferrari get pole, Ferrari win, makes it the better car for the weekend.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:16 am 
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Exediron wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Ferrari was the better car for the weekend.

Or Hamilton didn't extract the maximum from the Mercedes?

There's two or three ways to read it, and only one of them really means that the Ferrari was better.

1) Ferrari genuinely was better, and Bottas had a very strong weekend to be so close to them.
2) Bottas being within a tenth means that an on-form Hamilton would have qualified on pole and likely won.
3) Ferrari wasn't great, but both Vettel and Bottas put in great drives to overshadow their teammates.

I'm inclined to think it was a weak performance from Hamilton, and the cars were equal. Bottas qualifying a tenth behind Vettel and finishing roughly that amount per lap behind in the end is indicative of the basic pace gap between Vettel and Bottas (if not less than); in a dominant Ferrari, Vettel would have been farther ahead. Hamilton just had a poor weekend, as evidenced by his repeated mistakes in qualifying.


But last year in the exact same scenarios it would have been called the Mercedes was faster :lol:

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Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016


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