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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:04 pm 
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Maybe Red Bull will feature in this conversation next year, if they are reliable and Honda can make a decent gain they could be right in the mix.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:18 am 
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Johnson wrote:
Maybe Red Bull will feature in this conversation next year, if they are reliable and Honda can make a decent gain they could be right in the mix.

I have a feeling that reliability will be the biggest issue for them.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:27 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
You realise you are both doing what you're accusing the other of, right?

It's a contradictory paragraph, you can both select the bits you like till you're blue in the face but it's not getting any less contradictory. And it's also a rubbish paragraph that makes little sense unless the author seriously thinks Lewis managed to extract 3ths more than the car was ever capable of and Bottas had in fact maxed out the true capability of the Mercedes as had Seb and Kimi in the Ferrari.

Which is clearly ridiculous.

You don't think that maybe that's what I was trying to point out?

As for the last sentence so all the drivers are equal in ability and none of them made any mistakes, they supposedly analyse such things.


It's not that tricky to call it contradictory.

No idea what you mean with the second sentence.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:30 am 
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That will be the big problem for them. Ferrari have become the benchmark for reliability this year. What is it, one turbo failure for Kimi and nothing for Vettel all year.

Mercedes have a DNF for each car as well as a grid penalty for each and another qualifying failure for Hamilton. Bottas also might need an engine change to make the end of the year.

1 mechanical issue for Ferrari all year, to Mercedes 5 or 6. Red Bull, even if they had the quickest car would need to massively improve reliability to stand any chance. 2 or more mechanical DNFs and they would need to dominate the rest of the year to fight for the title because will likely have a collision or two along the way as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:01 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Maybe Red Bull will feature in this conversation next year, if they are reliable and Honda can make a decent gain they could be right in the mix.

I have a feeling that reliability will be the biggest issue for them.

Reliability is currently the biggest issue for them. I think things will improve next year but the Mercedes and Ferrari engines have been far superior to both Honda and Renault in that department. My expectation is that the Honda will be a dramatic improvement for them performance-wise and I think it will be more reliable too. I just don't think it will be quite reliable enough to actually win the championship.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:09 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Kimi is 0.070 off of Hamilton (who hasn’t struggled) and 0.3 clear of Bottas. General trend is, Ferrari is at least slightly quicker.

Vettel is only 0.020 ahead of Kimi. General trend is, Vettel has underperformed.

These three things all occurred, makes me think Ferrari were quicker but Vettel didn’t hit his potential.

Similarly, if Hamilton is only 0.020 ahead of Bottas and just misses pole - he probably underperformed and Mercedes was better. If Bottas is beating Vettel over 1 lap, general trend is Mercedes is ahead.

Yeah I'd go along with that if Bottas out qualifies Vettel then Mercedes are quicker, likewise if Kimi out qualifies Bottas then I'd say that Ferrari are quicker.

This strikes me as quite an unbalanced way of measuring the speeds...

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Kimi is 0.070 off of Hamilton (who hasn’t struggled) and 0.3 clear of Bottas. General trend is, Ferrari is at least slightly quicker.

Vettel is only 0.020 ahead of Kimi. General trend is, Vettel has underperformed.

These three things all occurred, makes me think Ferrari were quicker but Vettel didn’t hit his potential.

Similarly, if Hamilton is only 0.020 ahead of Bottas and just misses pole - he probably underperformed and Mercedes was better. If Bottas is beating Vettel over 1 lap, general trend is Mercedes is ahead.

Yeah I'd go along with that if Bottas out qualifies Vettel then Mercedes are quicker, likewise if Kimi out qualifies Bottas then I'd say that Ferrari are quicker.

This strikes me as quite an unbalanced way of measuring the speeds...


It may seem that way but if you use solely that method over the last few races it kind of works...

Mex - n/a
USA - Ferrari
Jap - Merc
Rus - Merc
Sing - n/a
Monz - Ferrari
Bel - n/a
Hun - Merc
Ger - n/a
GB - Ferrari
Aust - Merc
France - Merc
Can - n/a
Mon - Ferrari
Spain - Merc
Baku - n/a
Chin - Ferrari
Bah - Ferrari
Aus - n/a

Ended up doing them all as it was interesting. It holds very well, nothing stands out as completely wrong. N/a is neither condition was met.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:06 pm 
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https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/repo ... rix-report

"Just as in Austin, Mercedes had decided to cover up the rear wheel spacer holes that had got Ferrari so agitated, this despite the FIA giving a clarification to the feature on Friday. "

"Much had been made coming into the weekend of the cooling holes in Merc’s rear wheel spacers and whether they – as Ferrari suggested – conferred an aerodynamic benefit. Mercedes had requested a ruling for the weekend, and the FIA agreed with Merc’s contention that the holes were primarily for cooling.

But, as a team looking to seal Hamilton’s title here, Mercedes decided to play it safe and covered up the holes, just as it had done in Austin for the same reason. Was this a contributory cause to the rear graining? Probably not. Graining, unlike blistering, is not generally caused by excessive heat but by too big a temperature difference between the tyre’s core and its surface. It certainly had nothing to do with the extreme front graining."

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Last edited by F1_Ernie on Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:09 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Maybe Red Bull will feature in this conversation next year, if they are reliable and Honda can make a decent gain they could be right in the mix.

I have a feeling that reliability will be the biggest issue for them.

Reliability is currently the biggest issue for them. I think things will improve next year but the Mercedes and Ferrari engines have been far superior to both Honda and Renault in that department. My expectation is that the Honda will be a dramatic improvement for them performance-wise and I think it will be more reliable too. I just don't think it will be quite reliable enough to actually win the championship.

Yes I agree with all of that and I guess so do Red Bull as they are targeting 2020 as a title challenge rather than 2019.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:11 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Kimi is 0.070 off of Hamilton (who hasn’t struggled) and 0.3 clear of Bottas. General trend is, Ferrari is at least slightly quicker.

Vettel is only 0.020 ahead of Kimi. General trend is, Vettel has underperformed.

These three things all occurred, makes me think Ferrari were quicker but Vettel didn’t hit his potential.

Similarly, if Hamilton is only 0.020 ahead of Bottas and just misses pole - he probably underperformed and Mercedes was better. If Bottas is beating Vettel over 1 lap, general trend is Mercedes is ahead.

Yeah I'd go along with that if Bottas out qualifies Vettel then Mercedes are quicker, likewise if Kimi out qualifies Bottas then I'd say that Ferrari are quicker.

This strikes me as quite an unbalanced way of measuring the speeds...

No it's purely scientific as career qualifying records show Vettel to be quicker than Bottas and Bottas to be quicker than Kimi, the gap to Bottas and Kimi is actually greater than the gap to Vettel and Bottas.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:17 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/reports/f1/2018-mexican-grand-prix-report

"Just as in Austin, Mercedes had decided to cover up the rear wheel spacer holes that had got Ferrari so agitated, this despite the FIA giving a clarification to the feature on Friday. "

"Much had been made coming into the weekend of the cooling holes in Merc’s rear wheel spacers and whether they – as Ferrari suggested – conferred an aerodynamic benefit. Mercedes had requested a ruling for the weekend, and the FIA agreed with Merc’s contention that the holes were primarily for cooling.

But, as a team looking to seal Hamilton’s title here, Mercedes decided to play it safe and covered up the holes, just as it had done in Austin for the same reason. Was this a contributory cause to the rear graining? Probably not. Graining, unlike blistering, is not generally caused by excessive heat but by too big a temperature difference between the tyre’s core and its surface. It certainly had nothing to do with the extreme front graining."

Also I think it was the front tyres in particular that were graining?

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:30 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Kimi is 0.070 off of Hamilton (who hasn’t struggled) and 0.3 clear of Bottas. General trend is, Ferrari is at least slightly quicker.

Vettel is only 0.020 ahead of Kimi. General trend is, Vettel has underperformed.

These three things all occurred, makes me think Ferrari were quicker but Vettel didn’t hit his potential.

Similarly, if Hamilton is only 0.020 ahead of Bottas and just misses pole - he probably underperformed and Mercedes was better. If Bottas is beating Vettel over 1 lap, general trend is Mercedes is ahead.

Yeah I'd go along with that if Bottas out qualifies Vettel then Mercedes are quicker, likewise if Kimi out qualifies Bottas then I'd say that Ferrari are quicker.

This strikes me as quite an unbalanced way of measuring the speeds...

No it's purely scientific as career qualifying records show Vettel to be quicker than Bottas and Bottas to be quicker than Kimi, the gap to Bottas and Kimi is actually greater than the gap to Vettel and Bottas.

It also conveniently excludes Hamilton from the equation which would otherwise tip the scale in an unwanted direction?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Kimi is 0.070 off of Hamilton (who hasn’t struggled) and 0.3 clear of Bottas. General trend is, Ferrari is at least slightly quicker.

Vettel is only 0.020 ahead of Kimi. General trend is, Vettel has underperformed.

These three things all occurred, makes me think Ferrari were quicker but Vettel didn’t hit his potential.

Similarly, if Hamilton is only 0.020 ahead of Bottas and just misses pole - he probably underperformed and Mercedes was better. If Bottas is beating Vettel over 1 lap, general trend is Mercedes is ahead.

Yeah I'd go along with that if Bottas out qualifies Vettel then Mercedes are quicker, likewise if Kimi out qualifies Bottas then I'd say that Ferrari are quicker.

This strikes me as quite an unbalanced way of measuring the speeds...

No it's purely scientific as career qualifying records show Vettel to be quicker than Bottas and Bottas to be quicker than Kimi, the gap to Bottas and Kimi is actually greater than the gap to Vettel and Bottas.

It also conveniently excludes Hamilton from the equation which would otherwise tip the scale in an unwanted direction?

It actually comes out 50/50 so I'm not quite sure what you are meaning?

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:26 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yeah I'd go along with that if Bottas out qualifies Vettel then Mercedes are quicker, likewise if Kimi out qualifies Bottas then I'd say that Ferrari are quicker.

This strikes me as quite an unbalanced way of measuring the speeds...

No it's purely scientific as career qualifying records show Vettel to be quicker than Bottas and Bottas to be quicker than Kimi, the gap to Bottas and Kimi is actually greater than the gap to Vettel and Bottas.

It also conveniently excludes Hamilton from the equation which would otherwise tip the scale in an unwanted direction?

It actually comes out 50/50 so I'm not quite sure what you are meaning?

That's exactly the point, would surely be harder to push the Mercedes underdog agenda?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
That's exactly the point, would surely be harder to push the Mercedes underdog agenda?


He told you his method, I showed you it in practise. Which race do you disagree with?
It seems like a good method, at least based on this season. If you want to call it out as with an agenda point out a race it definitely didn't work for?

Obviously some races are n/a so you need to look at Hamilton vs Vettel, Hamilton vs Raikkonen to make a judgement on those.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:30 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
This strikes me as quite an unbalanced way of measuring the speeds...

No it's purely scientific as career qualifying records show Vettel to be quicker than Bottas and Bottas to be quicker than Kimi, the gap to Bottas and Kimi is actually greater than the gap to Vettel and Bottas.

It also conveniently excludes Hamilton from the equation which would otherwise tip the scale in an unwanted direction?

It actually comes out 50/50 so I'm not quite sure what you are meaning?

That's exactly the point, would surely be harder to push the Mercedes underdog agenda?

50/50 is pushing an underdog agenda?

This is why I introduced respected sources into this thread because the agenda aspect is bound to come up when people disagree or think differently?

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2013: 5th Place
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2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:30 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
It also conveniently excludes Hamilton from the equation which would otherwise tip the scale in an unwanted direction?

It actually comes out 50/50 so I'm not quite sure what you are meaning?

That's exactly the point, would surely be harder to push the Mercedes underdog agenda?

I have to challenge your sentiment here. Are you trying to suggest that Mercedes had the better car on the season?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:34 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
It also conveniently excludes Hamilton from the equation which would otherwise tip the scale in an unwanted direction?

It actually comes out 50/50 so I'm not quite sure what you are meaning?

That's exactly the point, would surely be harder to push the Mercedes underdog agenda?

I have to challenge your sentiment here. Are you trying to suggest that Mercedes had the better car on the season?

I think he's saying they've had an equal car on the season. That's also a possibility - neither Ferrari or Mercedes has to have been better.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:43 am 
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Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
It also conveniently excludes Hamilton from the equation which would otherwise tip the scale in an unwanted direction?

It actually comes out 50/50 so I'm not quite sure what you are meaning?

That's exactly the point, would surely be harder to push the Mercedes underdog agenda?

I have to challenge your sentiment here. Are you trying to suggest that Mercedes had the better car on the season?

I think he's saying they've had an equal car on the season. That's also a possibility - neither Ferrari or Mercedes has to have been better.

It's a theoretical possibility sure but we're not in the realm of theory. We have actually seen the season already and, as such, we can speak about what has actually been the case.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:55 am 
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Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
It also conveniently excludes Hamilton from the equation which would otherwise tip the scale in an unwanted direction?

It actually comes out 50/50 so I'm not quite sure what you are meaning?

That's exactly the point, would surely be harder to push the Mercedes underdog agenda?

I have to challenge your sentiment here. Are you trying to suggest that Mercedes had the better car on the season?

I think he's saying they've had an equal car on the season. That's also a possibility - neither Ferrari or Mercedes has to have been better.

That being the case why did he come out with the Mercedes underdog agenda when Johnson's dalliance came out at 50/50?

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:30 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It actually comes out 50/50 so I'm not quite sure what you are meaning?

That's exactly the point, would surely be harder to push the Mercedes underdog agenda?

I have to challenge your sentiment here. Are you trying to suggest that Mercedes had the better car on the season?

I think he's saying they've had an equal car on the season. That's also a possibility - neither Ferrari or Mercedes has to have been better.

That being the case why did he come out with the Mercedes underdog agenda when Johnson's dalliance came out at 50/50?

You have been pushing the Mercedes underdog agenda, that´s the reality. I´m guessing it would be harder for you to push it if the quali stats were showing something like an 70/30 ratio for Mercedes, whereas 50/50 is still doable apparently.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:20 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
That's exactly the point, would surely be harder to push the Mercedes underdog agenda?

I have to challenge your sentiment here. Are you trying to suggest that Mercedes had the better car on the season?

I think he's saying they've had an equal car on the season. That's also a possibility - neither Ferrari or Mercedes has to have been better.

That being the case why did he come out with the Mercedes underdog agenda when Johnson's dalliance came out at 50/50?

You have been pushing the Mercedes underdog agenda, that´s the reality. I´m guessing it would be harder for you to push it if the quali stats were showing something like an 70/30 ratio for Mercedes, whereas 50/50 is still doable apparently.

50/50 is pushing a Mercedes underdog agenda?

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:51 pm 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/46031254

Jolyon Palmer believes the form Hamilton has been in this year he would win the title in either car.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:58 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I have to challenge your sentiment here. Are you trying to suggest that Mercedes had the better car on the season?

I think he's saying they've had an equal car on the season. That's also a possibility - neither Ferrari or Mercedes has to have been better.

That being the case why did he come out with the Mercedes underdog agenda when Johnson's dalliance came out at 50/50?

You have been pushing the Mercedes underdog agenda, that´s the reality. I´m guessing it would be harder for you to push it if the quali stats were showing something like an 70/30 ratio for Mercedes, whereas 50/50 is still doable apparently.

50/50 is pushing a Mercedes underdog agenda?

What? No. I don't know how to make myself any clearer anymore but you're obviously missing the point.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:08 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
I think he's saying they've had an equal car on the season. That's also a possibility - neither Ferrari or Mercedes has to have been better.

That being the case why did he come out with the Mercedes underdog agenda when Johnson's dalliance came out at 50/50?

You have been pushing the Mercedes underdog agenda, that´s the reality. I´m guessing it would be harder for you to push it if the quali stats were showing something like an 70/30 ratio for Mercedes, whereas 50/50 is still doable apparently.

50/50 is pushing a Mercedes underdog agenda?

What? No. I don't know how to make myself any clearer anymore but you're obviously missing the point.

Well that's got circular, I'm just wondering can it be called pushing an agenda when most people think the same way?

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:43 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
That being the case why did he come out with the Mercedes underdog agenda when Johnson's dalliance came out at 50/50?

You have been pushing the Mercedes underdog agenda, that´s the reality. I´m guessing it would be harder for you to push it if the quali stats were showing something like an 70/30 ratio for Mercedes, whereas 50/50 is still doable apparently.

50/50 is pushing a Mercedes underdog agenda?

What? No. I don't know how to make myself any clearer anymore but you're obviously missing the point.

Well that's got circular, I'm just wondering can it be called pushing an agenda when most people think the same way?

Is that a fact?

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Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:38 am 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
You have been pushing the Mercedes underdog agenda, that´s the reality. I´m guessing it would be harder for you to push it if the quali stats were showing something like an 70/30 ratio for Mercedes, whereas 50/50 is still doable apparently.

50/50 is pushing a Mercedes underdog agenda?

What? No. I don't know how to make myself any clearer anymore but you're obviously missing the point.

Well that's got circular, I'm just wondering can it be called pushing an agenda when most people think the same way?

Is that a fact?

Maybe you need to read through the thread rather than joining at the 11th hour?

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2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:26 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
50/50 is pushing a Mercedes underdog agenda?

What? No. I don't know how to make myself any clearer anymore but you're obviously missing the point.

Well that's got circular, I'm just wondering can it be called pushing an agenda when most people think the same way?

Is that a fact?

Maybe you need to read through the thread rather than joining at the 11th hour?

Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:28 am 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well that's got circular, I'm just wondering can it be called pushing an agenda when most people think the same way?

Is that a fact?

Maybe you need to read through the thread rather than joining at the 11th hour?

Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".

I honestly do think most people consider the cars to be very close with a slight edge to Ferrari.

Does that make Lewis an underdog? Not really, no. See: very close, slight edge.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:03 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Is that a fact?

Maybe you need to read through the thread rather than joining at the 11th hour?

Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".

I honestly do think most people consider the cars to be very close with a slight edge to Ferrari.

Does that make Lewis an underdog? Not really, no. See: very close, slight edge.

Not sure. I do think that there are a lot of people that do think that (myself included), but a lot of them also claim that Ferrari is clearly better, with AMUS and other data to prove.

I tend to agree with Covalent though, I try not to generalise what do people think too much. Just because a few people have been vocal one way or the other, doesn't represent all, most, few or whatever percentage one may feel to assign.

Maybe we should have a poll at the end of the year to get this over with.

Then again, it makes for a good debate!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Its much easier to gauge what people think on sites like Reddit as comments get up votes and down votes. Talk nonsense and you are highly negative and talk sense you get lots of up votes (generally). The F1 forum there has 400,000 highly international users. So its quite easy to gauge consensus.

The consensus among just about everybody - fans, pundits, drivers themselves, teams - is that Vettel had the car capable to win the title but made too many mistakes whilst Hamilton drove a near flawless season.
That may well align to the "perfect scenario" for Hamilton fan boys but it doesn't make it untrue.

Once reliability is factored in, Hamilton almost undoubtedly won the title in an inferior package. People see the word inferior but get upset, inferior can mean 0.050 behind or 0.500 behind. It can also mean the cars were equal in speed but Mercedes just more unreliable.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
What? No. I don't know how to make myself any clearer anymore but you're obviously missing the point.

Well that's got circular, I'm just wondering can it be called pushing an agenda when most people think the same way?

Is that a fact?

Maybe you need to read through the thread rather than joining at the 11th hour?

Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".

No which again shows quite clearly that you have not read the thread.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Is that a fact?

Maybe you need to read through the thread rather than joining at the 11th hour?

Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".

I honestly do think most people consider the cars to be very close with a slight edge to Ferrari.

Does that make Lewis an underdog? Not really, no. See: very close, slight edge.

Not sure. I do think that there are a lot of people that do think that (myself included), but a lot of them also claim that Ferrari is clearly better, with AMUS and other data to prove.

I tend to agree with Covalent though, I try not to generalise what do people think too much. Just because a few people have been vocal one way or the other, doesn't represent all, most, few or whatever percentage one may feel to assign.

Maybe we should have a poll at the end of the year to get this over with.

Then again, it makes for a good debate!

There was a similar poll earlier in the year between Hamilton and Vettel which Hamilton won by a landslide so one poster accused the poll of being bias, Covalent has already said that he doesn't care that much what a few people might say in this thread.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:34 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Its much easier to gauge what people think on sites like Reddit as comments get up votes and down votes. Talk nonsense and you are highly negative and talk sense you get lots of up votes (generally). The F1 forum there has 400,000 highly international users. So its quite easy to gauge consensus.

The consensus among just about everybody - fans, pundits, drivers themselves, teams - is that Vettel had the car capable to win the title but made too many mistakes whilst Hamilton drove a near flawless season.
That may well align to the "perfect scenario" for Hamilton fan boys but it doesn't make it untrue.

Once reliability is factored in, Hamilton almost undoubtedly won the title in an inferior package. People see the word inferior but get upset, inferior can mean 0.050 behind or 0.500 behind. It can also mean the cars were equal in speed but Mercedes just more unreliable.


Your last sentence is exactly spot on.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:52 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Maybe you need to read through the thread rather than joining at the 11th hour?

Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".

I honestly do think most people consider the cars to be very close with a slight edge to Ferrari.

Does that make Lewis an underdog? Not really, no. See: very close, slight edge.

Not sure. I do think that there are a lot of people that do think that (myself included), but a lot of them also claim that Ferrari is clearly better, with AMUS and other data to prove.

I tend to agree with Covalent though, I try not to generalise what do people think too much. Just because a few people have been vocal one way or the other, doesn't represent all, most, few or whatever percentage one may feel to assign.

Maybe we should have a poll at the end of the year to get this over with.

Then again, it makes for a good debate!

There was a similar poll earlier in the year between Hamilton and Vettel which Hamilton won by a landslide so one poster accused the poll of being bias, Covalent has already said that he doesn't care that much what a few people might say in this thread.

I dare you to quote me on where I've said that.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:56 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Well that's got circular, I'm just wondering can it be called pushing an agenda when most people think the same way?

Is that a fact?

Maybe you need to read through the thread rather than joining at the 11th hour?

Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".

No which again shows quite clearly that you have not read the thread.

Why are you so obsessed with what I have read? Should I read through all the pages of whichever thread I'm taking part in? Where is this rule stated?
I'm tempted to say something untrue about Hamilton in the Kimi thread just so that you would have to read through all the hundreds of pages.

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Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:15 pm 
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As much though this thread gets contentious, it is one of the most purposeful threads I've seen in this forum over the years. I think it breeds some interesting discussions and the links that people have posted in this thread contain a lot of pertinent information. Tempers run high in here though lol.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:58 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
As much though this thread gets contentious, it is one of the most purposeful threads I've seen in this forum over the years. I think it breeds some interesting discussions and the links that people have posted in this thread contain a lot of pertinent information. Tempers run high in here though lol.

Well, we need some heated discussions at some point!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:08 am 
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Posts: 28426
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".

I honestly do think most people consider the cars to be very close with a slight edge to Ferrari.

Does that make Lewis an underdog? Not really, no. See: very close, slight edge.

Not sure. I do think that there are a lot of people that do think that (myself included), but a lot of them also claim that Ferrari is clearly better, with AMUS and other data to prove.

I tend to agree with Covalent though, I try not to generalise what do people think too much. Just because a few people have been vocal one way or the other, doesn't represent all, most, few or whatever percentage one may feel to assign.

Maybe we should have a poll at the end of the year to get this over with.

Then again, it makes for a good debate!

There was a similar poll earlier in the year between Hamilton and Vettel which Hamilton won by a landslide so one poster accused the poll of being bias, Covalent has already said that he doesn't care that much what a few people might say in this thread.

I dare you to quote me on where I've said that.

Quote:
Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:11 am 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Is that a fact?

Maybe you need to read through the thread rather than joining at the 11th hour?

Ah so you confused "most people thing the same way" with "I think most people in this thread think the same way".

No which again shows quite clearly that you have not read the thread.

Why are you so obsessed with what I have read? Should I read through all the pages of whichever thread I'm taking part in? Where is this rule stated?
I'm tempted to say something untrue about Hamilton in the Kimi thread just so that you would have to read through all the hundreds of pages.

You would see what has been discussed and what relevant evidence has been brought forward.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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