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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 11:25 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
There is also no doubt that if a tyre change by Pirelli made Ferrari 1 second/lap faster the media outrage would have been much greater.

Sorry, I actually do doubt that very much. A lot of people are very anti-Mercedes, and I think it's actually more people than are against Ferrari.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:06 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
You're not even acknowledging the actual reasons for the tire modifications. You are also ignoring the fact that Red Bull didn't lose anything to Mercedes and the rest of the field didn't experience a wild swing in performance either. The fact that Ferrari struggled to adapt is not Mercedes' fault. It's clear the tire change benefited them relative to Ferrari but can you honestly say that it's not more down to Ferrari struggling rather than Mercedes doing particularly well?

The tyre modifications were completely unnecessary. They would have easily completed the race in a 2 stop with the normal tyres. Pirelli’s aim at the start of the season was to make most races 2 stop. Also, yes I did acknowledge the fact that Ferrari dropped back relative to Merc and RBR on these tyres. That doesn’t make the new tyres justified.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:09 am 
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Exediron wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
There is also no doubt that if a tyre change by Pirelli made Ferrari 1 second/lap faster the media outrage would have been much greater.

Sorry, I actually do doubt that very much. A lot of people are very anti-Mercedes, and I think it's actually more people than are against Ferrari.

A perfectly legitimate victory by Vettel in Monaco last year was considered undeserved by many after Sky’s smear campaign against Ferrari. The outrage if Pirelli changed the tyres and Ferrari was suddenly 1 second quicker would be off the charts, and there’s no doubt Sky would fuel it.

Hamilton also has the largest fanbase out of any driver.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:11 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Exediron wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
There is also no doubt that if a tyre change by Pirelli made Ferrari 1 second/lap faster the media outrage would have been much greater.

Sorry, I actually do doubt that very much. A lot of people are very anti-Mercedes, and I think it's actually more people than are against Ferrari.

A perfectly legitimate victory by Vettel in Monaco last year was considered undeserved by many after Sky’s smear campaign against Ferrari. The outrage if Pirelli changed the tyres and Ferrari was suddenly 1 second quicker would be off the charts, and there’s no doubt Sky would fuel it.

Hamilton also has the largest fanbase out of any driver.


Ferrari were allowed to run illegal wing mirrors. Where was this backlash? Since 2014 we've had numerous technical changes made in an attempt to reduce the Mercedes advantage. Again, wheres the backlash?


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:22 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Exediron wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
There is also no doubt that if a tyre change by Pirelli made Ferrari 1 second/lap faster the media outrage would have been much greater.

Sorry, I actually do doubt that very much. A lot of people are very anti-Mercedes, and I think it's actually more people than are against Ferrari.

A perfectly legitimate victory by Vettel in Monaco last year was considered undeserved by many after Sky’s smear campaign against Ferrari. The outrage if Pirelli changed the tyres and Ferrari was suddenly 1 second quicker would be off the charts, and there’s no doubt Sky would fuel it.

Hamilton also has the largest fanbase out of any driver.


Ferrari were allowed to run illegal wing mirrors. Where was this backlash? Since 2014 we've had numerous technical changes made in an attempt to reduce the Mercedes advantage. Again, wheres the backlash?

Actually I agree that if the situation were reversed we'd be getting multiple threads on Ferrari International Assistance etc.

But it is what it is. There are a lot more races with original spec tyres than the other way around and personally I think it's just luck that one particular tyre seems to suit some teams more than others. I've never been comfortable with the tyres making such a big impact on the racing but that's the lottery we have today


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:24 am 
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Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Exediron wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
There is also no doubt that if a tyre change by Pirelli made Ferrari 1 second/lap faster the media outrage would have been much greater.

Sorry, I actually do doubt that very much. A lot of people are very anti-Mercedes, and I think it's actually more people than are against Ferrari.

A perfectly legitimate victory by Vettel in Monaco last year was considered undeserved by many after Sky’s smear campaign against Ferrari. The outrage if Pirelli changed the tyres and Ferrari was suddenly 1 second quicker would be off the charts, and there’s no doubt Sky would fuel it.

Hamilton also has the largest fanbase out of any driver.


Ferrari were allowed to run illegal wing mirrors. Where was this backlash? Since 2014 we've had numerous technical changes made in an attempt to reduce the Mercedes advantage. Again, wheres the backlash?

Actually I agree that if the situation were reversed we'd be getting multiple threads on Ferrari International Assistance etc.

But it is what it is. There are a lot more races with original spec tyres than the other way around and personally I think it's just luck that one particular tyre seems to suit some teams more than others. I've never been comfortable with the tyres making such a big impact on the racing but that's the lottery we have today


Yeah, you're probably right on all counts there TBH.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:26 am 
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Ferrari’s wing mirrors were not illegal heading into the Spanish GP. FIA changed the regulations so they will be illegal in Monaco. If you want to use an example of FIA favouring Ferrari that’s a pretty terrible one. That’s FIA holding back/slowing down Ferrari.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:43 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari’s wing mirrors were not illegal heading into the Spanish GP. FIA changed the regulations so they will be illegal in Monaco. If you want to use an example of FIA favouring Ferrari that’s a pretty terrible one. That’s FIA holding back/slowing down Ferrari.


That's actually not true. The wing mirrors were illegal going into the event. No aero device is allowed to extend more the 20mm from the halo. No rules have been changed. Ferrari were allowed to run an illegal device.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:22 am 
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https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/14/fia ... be-banned/

Based on Charlie’s explanation it looks like Ferrari were exploiting a grey area of the regulations rather than just flat out breaking them.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 7:41 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/14/fia-explains-why-ferraris-halo-mirrors-will-be-banned/

Based on Charlie’s explanation it looks like Ferrari were exploiting a grey area of the regulations rather than just flat out breaking them.

yes I'd agree. In fact he goes on to say that if it had been a clear breach of the rules they wouldn't have been allowed to use them. Besides, as he admitted the FIA opened the door when they allowed wing mirrors to be fitted. Teams will always push the boundaries as much as they can to get a competitive advantage


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:43 am 
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Time for some conspiracy theories again, 2021 rules set, Merc again a sec/lap faster than anyone else, even secured some "special" tyres for some races... : )

Did they just show their real pace for 2018? Accusing the competition for sandbagging and that they where down on power, and then just blow through the rest off the season..


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:51 am 
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https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/repo ... rix-report

Conspiracy debunking

1) The request for thinner-gauge tyres on fast corner tracks had come from a number of teams – but led by Mercedes, McLaren and (ital)Ferrari(-ital) – after winter testing here on the new surface had revealed worrying degrees of blistering.

2) Pirelli finally agreed to the request on the weekend of the Bahrain Grand Prix – i.e. after just one race: a race (Melbourne) at which the Mercedes had been the dominant car.

3) Such nonsense assumed that anyone had sufficient understanding of the alchemy of the Pirelli-car-track temperature relationship that it could modify the tyre in a way that was sure to have the required differing effect on each car.

But there was conspiracy in the other direction too.

The Mercs had captured the front row – so this theory went – because this was the first race since the FIA had discovered that Ferrari had been deploying more than the permitted 4kj of stored energy per lap in the four previous events. Now that the extra output on the battery had been discovered, along with the extra ECU within the battery’s casing, so Ferrari had been trimmed back to normal power – and consequently was a tenth or so behind Mercedes rather than a couple of tenths ahead. In exchange, the conspiracists explained, Ferrari had changed its mind about not voting in favour of the FIA’s proposed 2019 aero reg changes. Ok, this was based on slightly more solid information – the FIA had actually looked at Ferrari’s energy store in Baku and requested an explanation for how it worked, and Ferrari had switched its position on the 2019 regs. But.

1) Yes, but so had Mercedes. If there was a quid-pro-quo, it was a trade-off in the proposed 2021 engine regs for something that both Ferrari and Mercedes wanted.

2) GPS analysis by Mercedes suggested that there was next to zero offset between the two engines around Barcelona and that the difference in qualifying lap time was wholly accounted for by lower apex speeds for Ferrari at Turns 4, 7 and 9.

Even Mercedes was saying the anti-Ferrari story was nonsense.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 11:41 am 
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So according to a british journalist celebrating a dominant Merc showing and Merc themselves, it's all nonsense..


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:22 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
So according to a british journalist celebrating a dominant Merc showing and Merc themselves, it's all nonsense..

well to be fair he's backed up that opinion with a fair amount of detailed reasoning...


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:24 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
So according to a british journalist celebrating a dominant Merc showing and Merc themselves, it's all nonsense..


You are sounding a lot like someone else on this forum :lol: someone must be wrong because they are British :? You could at least debate the points made.

Mark Hughes also added this in the comments below his article.

"It was supported in the meetings by the Ferrari technical people, regardless of the team principal's public propoganda. You need to see behind that. And to claim Ferrari was not also suffering blistering during Barcelona testing is wholly inaccuarate. I could dig out the pictures proving such if I had time."

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:34 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
AnRs wrote:
So according to a british journalist celebrating a dominant Merc showing and Merc themselves, it's all nonsense..


You are sounding a lot like someone else on this forum :lol: someone must be wrong because they are British :? You could at least debate the points made.

Mark Hughes also added this in the comments below his article.

"It was supported in the meetings by the Ferrari technical people, regardless of the team principal's public propoganda. You need to see behind that. And to claim Ferrari was not also suffering blistering during Barcelona testing is wholly inaccuarate. I could dig out the pictures proving such if I had time."


He also says "I could prove my point but I 'm too busy to do so".

https://www.racefans.net/2018/03/13/tyr ... li-vettel/


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 12:49 pm 
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I don't even care if he is right or wrong, I personally think there was no need to change the tyres but your basically saying someone is wrong because they are British without debating the points made in the article.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 1:03 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
I don't even care if he is right or wrong, I personally think there was no need to change the tyres but your basically saying someone is wrong because they are British without debating the points made in the article.


No, I just claim he is a bit biased, which I still think.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 2:21 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Johnson wrote:
ynot22 wrote:
Yep. Pirelli just handed the championship to Mercedes. While other teams designed their cars for the tire compounds and thicknesses speced, Mercedes got Pirelli to change it to suit their car. The only competitive season in half a decade just got gifted to them.
Fell asleep after the safety car and didn’t miss a thing. Such is the state of F1 again. Thanks Pirelli


The tyres will be the same as before for 14 of the last 16 races

That is still an undeserved advantage for Mercedes in 3 races, which could be crucial at the end of the season.

If today is anything to go by, Hamilton will win easily in Britain and France.

You're not even acknowledging the actual reasons for the tire modifications. You are also ignoring the fact that Red Bull didn't lose anything to Mercedes and the rest of the field didn't experience a wild swing in performance either. The fact that Ferrari struggled to adapt is not Mercedes' fault. It's clear the tire change benefited them relative to Ferrari but can you honestly say that it's not more down to Ferrari struggling rather than Mercedes doing particularly well?

The actual reasons the tyres were changed?
If you're suggesting this was only done to benefit Mercedes then where is the evidence of this, all I've seen is speculation on the subject but no actual proof...
Pirelli say it was done for better tyre performance on the circuits they're bringing it to and did not do it at the request or for the benefit of any teams over others...


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 2:44 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Johnson wrote:
ynot22 wrote:
Yep. Pirelli just handed the championship to Mercedes. While other teams designed their cars for the tire compounds and thicknesses speced, Mercedes got Pirelli to change it to suit their car. The only competitive season in half a decade just got gifted to them.
Fell asleep after the safety car and didn’t miss a thing. Such is the state of F1 again. Thanks Pirelli


The tyres will be the same as before for 14 of the last 16 races

That is still an undeserved advantage for Mercedes in 3 races, which could be crucial at the end of the season.

If today is anything to go by, Hamilton will win easily in Britain and France.

You're not even acknowledging the actual reasons for the tire modifications. You are also ignoring the fact that Red Bull didn't lose anything to Mercedes and the rest of the field didn't experience a wild swing in performance either. The fact that Ferrari struggled to adapt is not Mercedes' fault. It's clear the tire change benefited them relative to Ferrari but can you honestly say that it's not more down to Ferrari struggling rather than Mercedes doing particularly well?

The actual reasons the tyres were changed?
If you're suggesting this was only done to benefit Mercedes then where is the evidence of this, all I've seen is speculation on the subject but no actual proof...
Pirelli say it was done for better tyre performance on the circuits they're bringing it to and did not do it at the request or for the benefit of any teams over others...

That was my point...The idea that this is some kind of scandal is complete rubbish. It just comes from Ferrari/Vettel fans who are sore about the way the Spanish GP went. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that these new tires were made for Mercedes in particular nor that they benefit Mercedes in particular. In fact, Mercedes were already getting better tire-life than Ferrari on the other spec tires.

Ferrari just struggled this weekend and I see it as a pattern of Ferrari upgrades sometimes not working out so well. Barcelona is the first race with a major upgrade package and Ferrari seemed to struggle for pace. But some people are full of excuses so they blame Pirelli or Mercedes or anyone else other than Ferrari themselves.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 2:48 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
You're not even acknowledging the actual reasons for the tire modifications. You are also ignoring the fact that Red Bull didn't lose anything to Mercedes and the rest of the field didn't experience a wild swing in performance either. The fact that Ferrari struggled to adapt is not Mercedes' fault. It's clear the tire change benefited them relative to Ferrari but can you honestly say that it's not more down to Ferrari struggling rather than Mercedes doing particularly well?

The tyre modifications were completely unnecessary. They would have easily completed the race in a 2 stop with the normal tyres. Pirelli’s aim at the start of the season was to make most races 2 stop. Also, yes I did acknowledge the fact that Ferrari dropped back relative to Merc and RBR on these tyres. That doesn’t make the new tyres justified.

You're only complaining because Ferrari struggled. You are totally non-objective here. The tires were changed in response to overwhelming feedback from the teams (including Ferrari). You'd prefer that the tire manufacturer just ignore feedback from the teams? Did it even occur to you that Ferrari actually brought quite a few upgrades to this race, as did Mercedes and pretty much everyone else? Did you ever consider that maybe the upgraded car presented some issues for Ferrari? That maybe things didn't go very smoothly? All you've done since qualifying is complain and make outlandish accusations and excuses. You should take it down a notch man.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:13 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
You're not even acknowledging the actual reasons for the tire modifications. You are also ignoring the fact that Red Bull didn't lose anything to Mercedes and the rest of the field didn't experience a wild swing in performance either. The fact that Ferrari struggled to adapt is not Mercedes' fault. It's clear the tire change benefited them relative to Ferrari but can you honestly say that it's not more down to Ferrari struggling rather than Mercedes doing particularly well?

The tyre modifications were completely unnecessary. They would have easily completed the race in a 2 stop with the normal tyres. Pirelli’s aim at the start of the season was to make most races 2 stop. Also, yes I did acknowledge the fact that Ferrari dropped back relative to Merc and RBR on these tyres. That doesn’t make the new tyres justified.

You're only complaining because Ferrari struggled. You are totally non-objective here. The tires were changed in response to overwhelming feedback from the teams (including Ferrari). You'd prefer that the tire manufacturer just ignore feedback from the teams? Did it even occur to you that Ferrari actually brought quite a few upgrades to this race, as did Mercedes and pretty much everyone else? Did you ever consider that maybe the upgraded car presented some issues for Ferrari? That maybe things didn't go very smoothly? All you've done since qualifying is complain and make outlandish accusations and excuses. You should take it down a notch man.

You are putting the performance gap on the upgrades? Let’s see what kind of gap Hamilton has over Vettel in Monaco and Canada. Let’s see if he still pulls away from Vettel at a rate of 1 second/lap.

Of course your excuse will be “but Barcelona suits Mercedes”. Barcelona is not much different from China, and Ferrari was quickest around China.

Arrivabene on the new tyres: "It's not in Ferrari's DNA to complain. We haven't done so. Having said that, Toto can say what he wants, but a clarification: there is a difference between being consulted and being informed. We have been informed, not consulted"

But of course you would believe Mark Hughes over Ferrari’s own team principle. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:26 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
You're not even acknowledging the actual reasons for the tire modifications. You are also ignoring the fact that Red Bull didn't lose anything to Mercedes and the rest of the field didn't experience a wild swing in performance either. The fact that Ferrari struggled to adapt is not Mercedes' fault. It's clear the tire change benefited them relative to Ferrari but can you honestly say that it's not more down to Ferrari struggling rather than Mercedes doing particularly well?

The tyre modifications were completely unnecessary. They would have easily completed the race in a 2 stop with the normal tyres. Pirelli’s aim at the start of the season was to make most races 2 stop. Also, yes I did acknowledge the fact that Ferrari dropped back relative to Merc and RBR on these tyres. That doesn’t make the new tyres justified.

You're only complaining because Ferrari struggled. You are totally non-objective here. The tires were changed in response to overwhelming feedback from the teams (including Ferrari). You'd prefer that the tire manufacturer just ignore feedback from the teams? Did it even occur to you that Ferrari actually brought quite a few upgrades to this race, as did Mercedes and pretty much everyone else? Did you ever consider that maybe the upgraded car presented some issues for Ferrari? That maybe things didn't go very smoothly? All you've done since qualifying is complain and make outlandish accusations and excuses. You should take it down a notch man.

You are putting the performance gap on the upgrades? Let’s see what kind of gap Hamilton has over Vettel in Monaco and Canada. Let’s see if he still pulls away from Vettel at a rate of 1 second/lap.

Of course your excuse will be “but Barcelona suits Mercedes”. Barcelona is not much different from China, and Ferrari was quickest around China.

Arrivabene on the new tyres: "It's not in Ferrari's DNA to complain. We haven't done so. Having said that, Toto can say what he wants, but a clarification: there is a difference between being consulted and being informed. We have been informed, not consulted"

But of course you would believe Mark Hughes over Ferrari’s own team principle. :lol:


Pirelli racing manager Mario Isola has this to say:

"Once we confirmed that in Melbourne everything was back to a normal situation, I personally contacted all the teams to ask for their opinion and I collected different opinions.

"After that, we had an internal meeting in Pirelli where we evaluated everything and then we prepared a report for the FIA explaining why we were requesting this change."

Isola also hit out at suggestions the change might have been made to help Mercedes and disadvantage Ferrari.

"We would never do something like that," said Isola.

"We work with all the top manufacturers, more than just those in F1, so why would we give an advantage to one?"

All depends on who you want to believe and whether it fits your opinion ;)

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:33 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
You're not even acknowledging the actual reasons for the tire modifications. You are also ignoring the fact that Red Bull didn't lose anything to Mercedes and the rest of the field didn't experience a wild swing in performance either. The fact that Ferrari struggled to adapt is not Mercedes' fault. It's clear the tire change benefited them relative to Ferrari but can you honestly say that it's not more down to Ferrari struggling rather than Mercedes doing particularly well?

The tyre modifications were completely unnecessary. They would have easily completed the race in a 2 stop with the normal tyres. Pirelli’s aim at the start of the season was to make most races 2 stop. Also, yes I did acknowledge the fact that Ferrari dropped back relative to Merc and RBR on these tyres. That doesn’t make the new tyres justified.

You're only complaining because Ferrari struggled. You are totally non-objective here. The tires were changed in response to overwhelming feedback from the teams (including Ferrari). You'd prefer that the tire manufacturer just ignore feedback from the teams? Did it even occur to you that Ferrari actually brought quite a few upgrades to this race, as did Mercedes and pretty much everyone else? Did you ever consider that maybe the upgraded car presented some issues for Ferrari? That maybe things didn't go very smoothly? All you've done since qualifying is complain and make outlandish accusations and excuses. You should take it down a notch man.

You are putting the performance gap on the upgrades? Let’s see what kind of gap Hamilton has over Vettel in Monaco and Canada. Let’s see if he still pulls away from Vettel at a rate of 1 second/lap.

Of course your excuse will be “but Barcelona suits Mercedes”. Barcelona is not much different from China, and Ferrari was quickest around China.

Arrivabene on the new tyres: "It's not in Ferrari's DNA to complain. We haven't done so. Having said that, Toto can say what he wants, but a clarification: there is a difference between being consulted and being informed. We have been informed, not consulted"

But of course you would believe Mark Hughes over Ferrari’s own team principle. :lol:


Pirelli racing manager Mario Isola has this to say:

"Once we confirmed that in Melbourne everything was back to a normal situation, I personally contacted all the teams to ask for their opinion and I collected different opinions.

"After that, we had an internal meeting in Pirelli where we evaluated everything and then we prepared a report for the FIA explaining why we were requesting this change."

Isola also hit out at suggestions the change might have been made to help Mercedes and disadvantage Ferrari.

"We would never do something like that," said Isola.

"We work with all the top manufacturers, more than just those in F1, so why would we give an advantage to one?"

All depends on who you want to believe and whether it fits your opinion ;)


Well, Isola wouldn't come out and say "oh yeah, totally did it to help Mercedes", would he?

Then again Arrivabene would support his team. Which surely goes to show that your last sentence is probably what holds truth here!


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:46 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
You're not even acknowledging the actual reasons for the tire modifications. You are also ignoring the fact that Red Bull didn't lose anything to Mercedes and the rest of the field didn't experience a wild swing in performance either. The fact that Ferrari struggled to adapt is not Mercedes' fault. It's clear the tire change benefited them relative to Ferrari but can you honestly say that it's not more down to Ferrari struggling rather than Mercedes doing particularly well?

The tyre modifications were completely unnecessary. They would have easily completed the race in a 2 stop with the normal tyres. Pirelli’s aim at the start of the season was to make most races 2 stop. Also, yes I did acknowledge the fact that Ferrari dropped back relative to Merc and RBR on these tyres. That doesn’t make the new tyres justified.

You're only complaining because Ferrari struggled. You are totally non-objective here. The tires were changed in response to overwhelming feedback from the teams (including Ferrari). You'd prefer that the tire manufacturer just ignore feedback from the teams? Did it even occur to you that Ferrari actually brought quite a few upgrades to this race, as did Mercedes and pretty much everyone else? Did you ever consider that maybe the upgraded car presented some issues for Ferrari? That maybe things didn't go very smoothly? All you've done since qualifying is complain and make outlandish accusations and excuses. You should take it down a notch man.

You are putting the performance gap on the upgrades? Let’s see what kind of gap Hamilton has over Vettel in Monaco and Canada. Let’s see if he still pulls away from Vettel at a rate of 1 second/lap.

Of course your excuse will be “but Barcelona suits Mercedes”. Barcelona is not much different from China, and Ferrari was quickest around China.

Arrivabene on the new tyres: "It's not in Ferrari's DNA to complain. We haven't done so. Having said that, Toto can say what he wants, but a clarification: there is a difference between being consulted and being informed. We have been informed, not consulted"

But of course you would believe Mark Hughes over Ferrari’s own team principle. :lol:

Who said anything about Mark Hughes? What exactly do you think that quote proves?

You're suggesting that this is some kind of conspiracy to help Mercedes but you don't seem to realize that most rules changes these last few years have been for the purpose of slowing them down. Ferrari happen to be the most popular f1 team and any notion that a conspiracy would be hatched to hurt them in particular (especially when it has been a decade since their last title) is absurd. The burden of proof lies with you here.

If the form book changes in Monaco, so be it. You won't see me crying about it. It has been an unpredictable season.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:15 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Who said anything about Mark Hughes? What exactly do you think that quote proves?

You were the one who is initially brought him up. Mark Hughes made a baseless claim that Arrivabene lied about not being consulted by Pirelli. Hughes is the one spreading propaganda.

Quote:
You're suggesting that this is some kind of conspiracy to help Mercedes but you don't seem to realize that most rules changes these last few years have been for the purpose of slowing them down. Ferrari happen to be the most popular f1 team and any notion that a conspiracy would be hatched to hurt them in particular (especially when it has been a decade since their last title) is absurd. The burden of proof lies with you here.

There is no deliberate conspiracy to help Mercedes, but Mercedes are very good at manipulating Pirelli and getting what they want by using the media and overexaggerating the dangers of driving on tyres which their car does not like.
Quote:
If the form book changes in Monaco, so be it. You won't see me crying about it. It has been an unpredictable season.

You are missing the point, if Ferrari goes back to being the best car in Monaco, that proves that Mercedes’ magical form was because of tyres.

I’m not crying about the fact that Mercedes was dominant, but rather the way in which it was achieved.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:30 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Who said anything about Mark Hughes? What exactly do you think that quote proves?

You were the one who is initially brought him up. Mark Hughes made a baseless claim that Arrivabene lied about not being consulted by Pirelli. Hughes is the one spreading propaganda.

Quote:
You're suggesting that this is some kind of conspiracy to help Mercedes but you don't seem to realize that most rules changes these last few years have been for the purpose of slowing them down. Ferrari happen to be the most popular f1 team and any notion that a conspiracy would be hatched to hurt them in particular (especially when it has been a decade since their last title) is absurd. The burden of proof lies with you here.

There is no deliberate conspiracy to help Mercedes, but Mercedes are very good at manipulating Pirelli and getting what they want by using the media and overexaggerating the dangers of driving on tyres which their car does not like.
Quote:
If the form book changes in Monaco, so be it. You won't see me crying about it. It has been an unpredictable season.

You are missing the point, if Ferrari goes back to being the best car in Monaco, that proves that Mercedes’ magical form was because of tyres.

I’m not crying about the fact that Mercedes was dominant, but rather the way in which it was achieved.

No I was not. I haven't said anything about Mark Hughes or his article. Stop attributing comments to me that I never made in the first place and then arguing against them.

Your theory would only hold up if Mercedes gained on EVERYONE in Barcelona. As it stands, the only team that lost out to them was Ferrari; which suggests that Ferrari struggled; not that Mercedes gained some unfair advantage. If Ferrari are back in front for Monaco, that would certainly indicate that their struggles were primarily tire related but, as of now, there are a lot of other factors that shouldn't be completely ruled out. Again, the cars were different in Barcelona. There were major upgrade packages introduced. It's possible that this accounts for some of the difference that we saw.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:49 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
Mark Hughes also added this in the comments below his article.

"It was supported in the meetings by the Ferrari technical people, regardless of the team principal's public propoganda. You need to see behind that. And to claim Ferrari was not also suffering blistering during Barcelona testing is wholly inaccuarate. I could dig out the pictures proving such if I had time."

Where exactly is the evidence behind his statements here? Where is the evidence that Ferrari’s team principle lied? Hughes can’t even dig up pictures of severe blistering on the Ferrari. He claims he doesn’t have the time to do so, but he has enough time to write his nonsense article. :uhoh:


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:04 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Mark Hughes also added this in the comments below his article.

"It was supported in the meetings by the Ferrari technical people, regardless of the team principal's public propoganda. You need to see behind that. And to claim Ferrari was not also suffering blistering during Barcelona testing is wholly inaccuarate. I could dig out the pictures proving such if I had time."

Where exactly is the evidence behind his statements here? Where is the evidence that Ferrari’s team principle lied? Hughes can’t even dig up pictures of severe blistering on the Ferrari. He claims he doesn’t have the time to do so, but he has enough time to write his nonsense article. :uhoh:


That was in the comments below the article, if you want to see the pictures why don't you email him? No need to get on your high horse, i was just the one supplying the information from another source which was a debate in this thread, doesn't mean i believe him either way.

Arrivabene says one thing and Isola another, there's no proof either way apart from someone will believe the person who backs up there opinion.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:11 pm 
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“I could show the pictures but I don’t have the time” usually translates into “I don’t have the evidence to back up my opinion”.

Mercedes were blistering the original tyres more than Ferrari in testing, and that was before Ferrari fixed their floor.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:32 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
The actual reasons the tyres were changed?
If you're suggesting this was only done to benefit Mercedes then where is the evidence of this, all I've seen is speculation on the subject but no actual proof...
Pirelli say it was done for better tyre performance on the circuits they're bringing it to and did not do it at the request or for the benefit of any teams over others...

That was my point...The idea that this is some kind of scandal is complete rubbish. It just comes from Ferrari/Vettel fans who are sore about the way the Spanish GP went. There is no empirical evidence to suggest that these new tires were made for Mercedes in particular nor that they benefit Mercedes in particular. In fact, Mercedes were already getting better tire-life than Ferrari on the other spec tires.

Ferrari just struggled this weekend and I see it as a pattern of Ferrari upgrades sometimes not working out so well. Barcelona is the first race with a major upgrade package and Ferrari seemed to struggle for pace. But some people are full of excuses so they blame Pirelli or Mercedes or anyone else other than Ferrari themselves.

Ah, misread it and thought you'd added a tinfoil hat to your wardrobe!


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:11 am 
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Lot of talk about tyres on here but can't help but think that's a bit of a red herring - as many have said Merc have generally had better tyre wear this season and struggled more in cooler conditions getting them upto temperature. Can see Merc being better on both tyre specs as we move into summer and some of the warmer track locations. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Anyway, more interested to hear if there is any news on the Spain updates for the various teams. Has there been much talk of which teams have made big steps. Seems Ferrari stole a march on the floor updates after Melbourne, and made a big step in performance, so only seems natural that the other teams will close that gap or make bigger steps as they exploit the gap in the rules from the wider wheelbase and bring their own updates. Seems strange that it's taken over a year for this to happen though so perhaps it's not such a big deal?

Also engine wise - was Kimi's failure on Sunday the new power unit? Again, this seems to have slipped under the radar but seems a big deal if so, as will make Vettel/Ferrari nervous. A lot of talk about Ferrari's lack of in season development, but can't help but think that while they are now very close on peak power, the reliability and endurance of the engines just isn't at the same level as Merc which shows as the season goes on. Sure they will prove me wrong now I've said that though!


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 6:12 am 
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WHoff78 wrote:
Lot of talk about tyres on here but can't help but think that's a bit of a red herring - as many have said Merc have generally had better tyre wear this season and struggled more in cooler conditions getting them upto temperature. Can see Merc being better on both tyre specs as we move into summer and some of the warmer track locations. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Anyway, more interested to hear if there is any news on the Spain updates for the various teams. Has there been much talk of which teams have made big steps. Seems Ferrari stole a march on the floor updates after Melbourne, and made a big step in performance, so only seems natural that the other teams will close that gap or make bigger steps as they exploit the gap in the rules from the wider wheelbase and bring their own updates. Seems strange that it's taken over a year for this to happen though so perhaps it's not such a big deal?

Also engine wise - was Kimi's failure on Sunday the new power unit? Again, this seems to have slipped under the radar but seems a big deal if so, as will make Vettel/Ferrari nervous. A lot of talk about Ferrari's lack of in season development, but can't help but think that while they are now very close on peak power, the reliability and endurance of the engines just isn't at the same level as Merc which shows as the season goes on. Sure they will prove me wrong now I've said that though!
Thing is you can't ignore the fact that the tyres were changed - regardless of the reason - and they do have a fairly significant impact upon the cars. Which makes guessing the relative competitiveness of the cars for future races based on this one a bit of a lottery.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:51 am 
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The tyres changed for only three tracks though, right?

So not a biggie after all. It is a bit concerning, however, if the teams can twist the manufacturer's arm to have their way, but I think this is natural, everyone is trying to get an advantage if they can, and these advantages are very small these days. Expected, but still a bit cheeky.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 9:24 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
The tyres changed for only three tracks though, right?

So not a biggie after all. It is a bit concerning, however, if the teams can twist the manufacturer's arm to have their way, but I think this is natural, everyone is trying to get an advantage if they can, and these advantages are very small these days. Expected, but still a bit cheeky.
Let's not forget that such tyre changes will aid certain teams, and force others to make changes to their cars, without really knowing what tyre behaviour to expect once they get to the remaining two tracks.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:02 pm 
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Have any pictures surfaced of other cars with blisters from Barcelona testing?


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:24 pm 
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According to Marc Priestly, former Mclaren f1 mechanic, this whole tyre conspiracy is much a do about nothing. And Ferrari was one of the teams that complained about the blistering, and therefore were also responsible for the change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 8W_vizIGf4

Skip to the 15 minute mark if you want to listen to what he had to say about the tires. There are also numerous reputable sources discarding this idea that Pirelli helped Mercedes.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:31 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
According to Marc Priestly, former Mclaren f1 mechanic, this whole tyre conspiracy is much a do about nothing. And Ferrari was one of the teams that complained about the blistering, and therefore were also responsible for the change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 8W_vizIGf4

Skip to the 15 minute mark if you want to listen to what he had to say about the tires. There are also numerous reputable sources discarding this idea that Pirelli helped Mercedes.

That's because the idea is absurd and totally unsubstantiated. It's basically just a keyboard warrior conspiracy theory that has no basis in reality.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Apparently the post race test will see the use of both old and newer spec for side by side comparisons. So we should actually get a definite answer to end speculation of if the change was needed.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:44 pm 
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To be fair Ferrari via Seb and Arrivabene have stoked it by denying they had those issues and that Pirelli didn't consult them as they claimed but rather they were just informed of the change.

The keyboard warriors can't do much if Ferrari came out and backed that version. But they didn't so here we are.

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