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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:41 am 
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As per Robert Doornbos, Kvyat has signed a contract with Toro Rosso to make a shock return!
https://thesportsrush.com/daniil-kvyat-has-signed-for-toro-rosso-reports-robert-doornbos/

It will get announced in Russia:
http://www.grandprix.com/news/kvyat-return-set-for-sochi-announcement.html

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:48 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Listening to Toto today it looks like Ocon is out for next season. It also seems like he has a great chance of a Merc drive in 2020. Bottas is under huge pressure going into next season.

He's been unlucky this season, he should have more points from the first third of the season, this and the fact that Hamilton has been stronger in the second third of the season has put him in this position of having to help Hamilton.


I think unless Bottas puts in an awesome first half of next season he's out.

Basically that would involve him matching Hamilton which I don't think Ocon would be capable of either, it would be more a case of supporting the junior program than it being a driver upgrade.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:50 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
As per Robert Doornbos, Kvyat has signed a contract with Toro Rosso to make a shock return!
https://thesportsrush.com/daniil-kvyat-has-signed-for-toro-rosso-reports-robert-doornbos/

It will get announced in Russia:
http://www.grandprix.com/news/kvyat-return-set-for-sochi-announcement.html

Yeah when Marko said there was going to be a driver announcement in Russia then it was quite easy to join the dots given the speculation surrounding Kvyat.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:09 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Listening to Toto today it looks like Ocon is out for next season. It also seems like he has a great chance of a Merc drive in 2020. Bottas is under huge pressure going into next season.

He's been unlucky this season, he should have more points from the first third of the season, this and the fact that Hamilton has been stronger in the second third of the season has put him in this position of having to help Hamilton.


I think unless Bottas puts in an awesome first half of next season he's out.

Basically that would involve him matching Hamilton which I don't think Ocon would be capable of either, it would be more a case of supporting the junior program than it being a driver upgrade.


It would be a change from a driver who has maxed out his ability to one that is already as good with the potential to get better.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:49 pm 
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There's no doubt deserves a seat in F1. He is young, talented and better than a fair few of those who are guaranteed 2019 seats. He is also a hell of a lot better than Lance Stroll whose Daddy is going to give Ocon's Force India seat to.

But we have to be honest, he has not blown Perez away. Perez is a solid yardstick and outpointed Ocon last year and while Ocon was better in the early part of the season (despite Perez's podium) Sergio has looked stronger recently. They may be the most evenly matched teammates on the grid.

Toto Wolff would have needed Ocon to be beating Perez far more often than he has to be totally convinced that he is ready for the Merc seat.

Besides, a year as a test/reserve driver is hardly the end for a driver Ocon's age, especially if it means a good seat for 2020 and beyond becomes available. As much as I'd like to see him at Williams with George Russell, perhaps a season testing will be better for his stock than trundling round at the back.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:16 am 
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pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per Robert Doornbos, Kvyat has signed a contract with Toro Rosso to make a shock return!
https://thesportsrush.com/daniil-kvyat-has-signed-for-toro-rosso-reports-robert-doornbos/

It will get announced in Russia:
http://www.grandprix.com/news/kvyat-return-set-for-sochi-announcement.html

Yeah when Marko said there was going to be a driver announcement in Russia then it was quite easy to join the dots given the speculation surrounding Kvyat.


This must be a bitter sweet pill for Kvyat to take.

On one hand he gets a 2nd chance to show he deserves a seat. On the other hand there must be a tiny little bit that'd want to tell Marko to get stuffed.

I hope he makes the most of this opportunity.

So who's the tip to replace Hartley then? So now that RB are forced to look into the discard bin, could it be Buemi? Luizzi? Klein?

Maybe Scott Speed might find himself thrust back into TR overalls.

Who will be the next lucky candidate to find his head on the chopping block.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:41 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per Robert Doornbos, Kvyat has signed a contract with Toro Rosso to make a shock return!
https://thesportsrush.com/daniil-kvyat-has-signed-for-toro-rosso-reports-robert-doornbos/

It will get announced in Russia:
http://www.grandprix.com/news/kvyat-return-set-for-sochi-announcement.html

Yeah when Marko said there was going to be a driver announcement in Russia then it was quite easy to join the dots given the speculation surrounding Kvyat.


This must be a bitter sweet pill for Kvyat to take.

On one hand he gets a 2nd chance to show he deserves a seat. On the other hand there must be a tiny little bit that'd want to tell Marko to get stuffed.

I hope he makes the most of this opportunity.

So who's the tip to replace Hartley then? So now that RB are forced to look into the discard bin, could it be Buemi? Luizzi? Klein?

Maybe Scott Speed might find himself thrust back into TR overalls.

Who will be the next lucky candidate to find his head on the chopping block.


I read somewhere Horner ruled Buemi out for a return!

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:40 am 
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With Wehrlein ending his ties with Mercedes, is he in the frame for a Toro Rosso seat?
https://www.essentiallysports.com/toro-rosso-eyeing-ex-mercedes-protege/

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:55 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
With Wehrlein ending his ties with Mercedes, is he in the frame for a Toro Rosso seat?
https://www.essentiallysports.com/toro-rosso-eyeing-ex-mercedes-protege/

What an act of justice this would be!

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:03 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per Robert Doornbos, Kvyat has signed a contract with Toro Rosso to make a shock return!
https://thesportsrush.com/daniil-kvyat-has-signed-for-toro-rosso-reports-robert-doornbos/

It will get announced in Russia:
http://www.grandprix.com/news/kvyat-return-set-for-sochi-announcement.html

Yeah when Marko said there was going to be a driver announcement in Russia then it was quite easy to join the dots given the speculation surrounding Kvyat.


This must be a bitter sweet pill for Kvyat to take.

On one hand he gets a 2nd chance to show he deserves a seat. On the other hand there must be a tiny little bit that'd want to tell Marko to get stuffed.

I hope he makes the most of this opportunity.

So who's the tip to replace Hartley then? So now that RB are forced to look into the discard bin, could it be Buemi? Luizzi? Klein?

Maybe Scott Speed might find himself thrust back into TR overalls.

Who will be the next lucky candidate to find his head on the chopping block.

I can't understand the logic of hiring Kvyat. They've already established that he's not good enough and the only reason for bringing him back again is that they've run out of young drivers to promote, incidentally much the same reason that Hartley is there. They'd be better off swallowing their pride and hiring Ocon for the year, he probably still has a better chance of becoming RBR's next world champion than Kvyat does.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:53 pm 
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Just got a chance to watch the GP, wonder if Sirotkin has been told he doesn't have a drive for next year. He hasn't come across as a particularly aggressive driver before unless I'm forgetting something but he looked like he simply didn't care that race.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:20 pm 
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j man wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per Robert Doornbos, Kvyat has signed a contract with Toro Rosso to make a shock return!
https://thesportsrush.com/daniil-kvyat-has-signed-for-toro-rosso-reports-robert-doornbos/

It will get announced in Russia:
http://www.grandprix.com/news/kvyat-return-set-for-sochi-announcement.html

Yeah when Marko said there was going to be a driver announcement in Russia then it was quite easy to join the dots given the speculation surrounding Kvyat.


This must be a bitter sweet pill for Kvyat to take.

On one hand he gets a 2nd chance to show he deserves a seat. On the other hand there must be a tiny little bit that'd want to tell Marko to get stuffed.

I hope he makes the most of this opportunity.

So who's the tip to replace Hartley then? So now that RB are forced to look into the discard bin, could it be Buemi? Luizzi? Klein?

Maybe Scott Speed might find himself thrust back into TR overalls.

Who will be the next lucky candidate to find his head on the chopping block.

I can't understand the logic of hiring Kvyat. They've already established that he's not good enough and the only reason for bringing him back again is that they've run out of young drivers to promote, incidentally much the same reason that Hartley is there. They'd be better off swallowing their pride and hiring Ocon for the year, he probably still has a better chance of becoming RBR's next world champion than Kvyat does.


If they hired Ocon while he's under a Merc contract then he would have no long term loyalty to Red Bull. They would basically be helping out a guy who might be racing against them for Mercedes in a few years.

Kvyat has had a strange F1 career. He has shown ability in the past, but was never mentally right after losing his seat at Red Bull. I think if he comes back reset and re-energised he can be a real asset to Torro Rosso.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:34 pm 
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Wehrlein having severed his ties with Mercedes could be a boost for him as it's now rumoured he's in contention for a Toro Rosso seat.

On the other hand, Ocon who's also facing a similar issue with no confirmed seat for 2019, Wolff has said Mercedes wouldn't break ties with Ocon as they believe in Ocon & know 1 day he'll drive for Mercedes & win races / championships.
https://www.essentiallysports.com/never-let-go-ocon-mercedes/

There was a time Wehrlein was considered a hotter property but wonder if he overall is a less favourable driver to be liked by a top team for reasons unknown. Force India too preferred Ocon over Wehrlein & now Mercedes are ready to back Ocon whereas they didn't think twice of hanging on to Wehrlein. I know both have the Mercedes tie up as a blockage but they rather stick to Ocn than Wehrlein!

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:50 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
j man wrote:
I can't understand the logic of hiring Kvyat. They've already established that he's not good enough and the only reason for bringing him back again is that they've run out of young drivers to promote, incidentally much the same reason that Hartley is there. They'd be better off swallowing their pride and hiring Ocon for the year, he probably still has a better chance of becoming RBR's next world champion than Kvyat does.


If they hired Ocon while he's under a Merc contract then he would have no long term loyalty to Red Bull. They would basically be helping out a guy who might be racing against them for Mercedes in a few years.

Kvyat has had a strange F1 career. He has shown ability in the past, but was never mentally right after losing his seat at Red Bull. I think if he comes back reset and re-energised he can be a real asset to Torro Rosso.


I can't understand why they didn't take Sainz to RB and kept Gasly in TR. Knowing they had no one to put in TR.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:55 pm 
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typaH4okc wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
j man wrote:
I can't understand the logic of hiring Kvyat. They've already established that he's not good enough and the only reason for bringing him back again is that they've run out of young drivers to promote, incidentally much the same reason that Hartley is there. They'd be better off swallowing their pride and hiring Ocon for the year, he probably still has a better chance of becoming RBR's next world champion than Kvyat does.


If they hired Ocon while he's under a Merc contract then he would have no long term loyalty to Red Bull. They would basically be helping out a guy who might be racing against them for Mercedes in a few years.

Kvyat has had a strange F1 career. He has shown ability in the past, but was never mentally right after losing his seat at Red Bull. I think if he comes back reset and re-energised he can be a real asset to Torro Rosso.


I can't understand why they didn't take Sainz to RB and kept Gasly in TR. Knowing they had no one to put in TR.


I think Sainz put too many Red Bull noses out of joint.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:08 pm 
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Kinda weak excuse. Marko seems like a guy who can put noses back in the joint if need be.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:10 pm 
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typaH4okc wrote:
Kinda weak excuse. Marko seems like a guy who can put noses back in the joint if need be.


I think Marko's is one of the noses no longer in it's joint as far as Sainz is concerned.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:35 pm 
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j man wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per Robert Doornbos, Kvyat has signed a contract with Toro Rosso to make a shock return!
https://thesportsrush.com/daniil-kvyat-has-signed-for-toro-rosso-reports-robert-doornbos/

It will get announced in Russia:
http://www.grandprix.com/news/kvyat-return-set-for-sochi-announcement.html

Yeah when Marko said there was going to be a driver announcement in Russia then it was quite easy to join the dots given the speculation surrounding Kvyat.


This must be a bitter sweet pill for Kvyat to take.

On one hand he gets a 2nd chance to show he deserves a seat. On the other hand there must be a tiny little bit that'd want to tell Marko to get stuffed.

I hope he makes the most of this opportunity.

So who's the tip to replace Hartley then? So now that RB are forced to look into the discard bin, could it be Buemi? Luizzi? Klein?

Maybe Scott Speed might find himself thrust back into TR overalls.

Who will be the next lucky candidate to find his head on the chopping block.

I can't understand the logic of hiring Kvyat. They've already established that he's not good enough and the only reason for bringing him back again is that they've run out of young drivers to promote, incidentally much the same reason that Hartley is there. They'd be better off swallowing their pride and hiring Ocon for the year, he probably still has a better chance of becoming RBR's next world champion than Kvyat does.


I totally understand the logic in hiring Kvyat. He's the best yardstick they have, by far. They know his speed in comparison to Ricciardo, Verstappen, and Sainz, and his strengths and weaknesses in comparison to them, too.

This way, they will very quickly know how talented or otherwise the 2nd driver is, in comparison to Ricciardo, Max, Sainz.

It makes perfect sense for Toro Rosso, which is after all, a team to provide drivers to Red Bull. They need a yardstick, and hence why they went with Kvyat, not Buemi, who's been out of F1 for too long.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:01 pm 
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IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
j man wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per Robert Doornbos, Kvyat has signed a contract with Toro Rosso to make a shock return!
https://thesportsrush.com/daniil-kvyat-has-signed-for-toro-rosso-reports-robert-doornbos/

It will get announced in Russia:
http://www.grandprix.com/news/kvyat-return-set-for-sochi-announcement.html

Yeah when Marko said there was going to be a driver announcement in Russia then it was quite easy to join the dots given the speculation surrounding Kvyat.


This must be a bitter sweet pill for Kvyat to take.

On one hand he gets a 2nd chance to show he deserves a seat. On the other hand there must be a tiny little bit that'd want to tell Marko to get stuffed.

I hope he makes the most of this opportunity.

So who's the tip to replace Hartley then? So now that RB are forced to look into the discard bin, could it be Buemi? Luizzi? Klein?

Maybe Scott Speed might find himself thrust back into TR overalls.

Who will be the next lucky candidate to find his head on the chopping block.

I can't understand the logic of hiring Kvyat. They've already established that he's not good enough and the only reason for bringing him back again is that they've run out of young drivers to promote, incidentally much the same reason that Hartley is there. They'd be better off swallowing their pride and hiring Ocon for the year, he probably still has a better chance of becoming RBR's next world champion than Kvyat does.


I totally understand the logic in hiring Kvyat. He's the best yardstick they have, by far. They know his speed in comparison to Ricciardo, Verstappen, and Sainz, and his strengths and weaknesses in comparison to them, too.

This way, they will very quickly know how talented or otherwise the 2nd driver is, in comparison to Ricciardo, Max, Sainz.

It makes perfect sense for Toro Rosso, which is after all, a team to provide drivers to Red Bull. They need a yardstick, and hence why they went with Kvyat, not Buemi, who's been out of F1 for too long.


I don't agree. They've never felt they needed a yardstick in the past. They've always been happy to change both drivers at once.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:15 pm 
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What a weird driver lineup it would be if it is indeed Kvyatt and Wherlein at TR. Would be entertaining to watch though, at least for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:22 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
j man wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
As per Robert Doornbos, Kvyat has signed a contract with Toro Rosso to make a shock return!
https://thesportsrush.com/daniil-kvyat-has-signed-for-toro-rosso-reports-robert-doornbos/

It will get announced in Russia:
http://www.grandprix.com/news/kvyat-return-set-for-sochi-announcement.html

Yeah when Marko said there was going to be a driver announcement in Russia then it was quite easy to join the dots given the speculation surrounding Kvyat.


This must be a bitter sweet pill for Kvyat to take.

On one hand he gets a 2nd chance to show he deserves a seat. On the other hand there must be a tiny little bit that'd want to tell Marko to get stuffed.

I hope he makes the most of this opportunity.

So who's the tip to replace Hartley then? So now that RB are forced to look into the discard bin, could it be Buemi? Luizzi? Klein?

Maybe Scott Speed might find himself thrust back into TR overalls.

Who will be the next lucky candidate to find his head on the chopping block.

I can't understand the logic of hiring Kvyat. They've already established that he's not good enough and the only reason for bringing him back again is that they've run out of young drivers to promote, incidentally much the same reason that Hartley is there. They'd be better off swallowing their pride and hiring Ocon for the year, he probably still has a better chance of becoming RBR's next world champion than Kvyat does.


If they hired Ocon while he's under a Merc contract then he would have no long term loyalty to Red Bull. They would basically be helping out a guy who might be racing against them for Mercedes in a few years.

Kvyat has had a strange F1 career. He has shown ability in the past, but was never mentally right after losing his seat at Red Bull. I think if he comes back reset and re-energised he can be a real asset to Torro Rosso.

But if Mercedes decide to retain Bottas again then Red Bull end up in a prime position to take Ocon off Mercedes' hands. Kvyat on the other hand offers no prospects other than filling the seat for a year or two until they can find someone decent. We've seen enough of him to know that he is not world championship material.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:38 am 
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I know Artem Markelov is contracted to Renault but I would find a way to put him in my car way before I put Kvyat in a perfectly good F1 car.!!!

Artem looks to be head and shoulders above both Sirotkin and Kvyat if you need a Russian driver.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:19 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
I know Artem Markelov is contracted to Renault but I would find a way to put him in my car way before I put Kvyat in a perfectly good F1 car.!!!

Artem looks to be head and shoulders above both Sirotkin and Kvyat if you need a Russian driver.


I would completely disagree.

Kvyat won GP3, as well as having two strong seasons in Formula Renault 2.0 against some decent drivers.

Sirotkin finished two GP2 seasons in third, including his rookie year, which isn't an easy thing to do.

Markelov's first two GP2 seasons saw him finish 24th and 13th, the latter of which was Sirotkin's rookie GP2 season. Markelov then finished 10th in his third season at that level (Sirotkin again finished 3rd) and only made a significant breakthrough in his fourth GP2 season. His GP2 career is very much reminiscent of the likes of Jolyon Palmer (28th, 11th, 7th, 1st) and Pastor Maldonado (11th, 5th, 6th, 1st).

Generally if a driver is not winning races regularly before their fourth season at that level, it just means they're making up for a lack of talent through superior experience of the car/tyres.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:33 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
I know Artem Markelov is contracted to Renault but I would find a way to put him in my car way before I put Kvyat in a perfectly good F1 car.!!!

Artem looks to be head and shoulders above both Sirotkin and Kvyat if you need a Russian driver.


I would completely disagree.

Kvyat won GP3, as well as having two strong seasons in Formula Renault 2.0 against some decent drivers.

Sirotkin finished two GP2 seasons in third, including his rookie year, which isn't an easy thing to do.

Markelov's first two GP2 seasons saw him finish 24th and 13th, the latter of which was Sirotkin's rookie GP2 season. Markelov then finished 10th in his third season at that level (Sirotkin again finished 3rd) and only made a significant breakthrough in his fourth GP2 season. His GP2 career is very much reminiscent of the likes of Jolyon Palmer (28th, 11th, 7th, 1st) and Pastor Maldonado (11th, 5th, 6th, 1st).

Generally if a driver is not winning races regularly before their fourth season at that level, it just means they're making up for a lack of talent through superior experience of the car/tyres.


This just proves Williams aren't interested in Markelov's (lack of) skills but the huge financial backing he brings.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:39 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
typaH4okc wrote:
Kinda weak excuse. Marko seems like a guy who can put noses back in the joint if need be.


I think Marko's is one of the noses no longer in it's joint as far as Sainz is concerned.

Getting beat by the Hulk maybe didn't help either although it didn't put McLaren off but then again they're more of a back marker team these days.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:42 am 
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kleefton wrote:
What a weird driver lineup it would be if it is indeed Kvyatt and Wherlein at TR. Would be entertaining to watch though, at least for me.

There is a rumour now that Honda want Vandoorne in the seat which is kind of interesting given rumours of Honda not wanting Alonso in one of its Indycars.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:44 am 
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j man wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
j man wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yeah when Marko said there was going to be a driver announcement in Russia then it was quite easy to join the dots given the speculation surrounding Kvyat.


This must be a bitter sweet pill for Kvyat to take.

On one hand he gets a 2nd chance to show he deserves a seat. On the other hand there must be a tiny little bit that'd want to tell Marko to get stuffed.

I hope he makes the most of this opportunity.

So who's the tip to replace Hartley then? So now that RB are forced to look into the discard bin, could it be Buemi? Luizzi? Klein?

Maybe Scott Speed might find himself thrust back into TR overalls.

Who will be the next lucky candidate to find his head on the chopping block.

I can't understand the logic of hiring Kvyat. They've already established that he's not good enough and the only reason for bringing him back again is that they've run out of young drivers to promote, incidentally much the same reason that Hartley is there. They'd be better off swallowing their pride and hiring Ocon for the year, he probably still has a better chance of becoming RBR's next world champion than Kvyat does.


If they hired Ocon while he's under a Merc contract then he would have no long term loyalty to Red Bull. They would basically be helping out a guy who might be racing against them for Mercedes in a few years.

Kvyat has had a strange F1 career. He has shown ability in the past, but was never mentally right after losing his seat at Red Bull. I think if he comes back reset and re-energised he can be a real asset to Torro Rosso.

But if Mercedes decide to retain Bottas again then Red Bull end up in a prime position to take Ocon off Mercedes' hands. Kvyat on the other hand offers no prospects other than filling the seat for a year or two until they can find someone decent. We've seen enough of him to know that he is not world championship material.

Wolff has said that Ocon will be back in F1 in 2020.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:46 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
I know Artem Markelov is contracted to Renault but I would find a way to put him in my car way before I put Kvyat in a perfectly good F1 car.!!!

Artem looks to be head and shoulders above both Sirotkin and Kvyat if you need a Russian driver.

I think Markelov lacks basic speed but is good at managing the cheese tyres in F2 with the help of his greater experience.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:47 am 
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He'd only know that if he was putting him in a Merc.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:50 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
I know Artem Markelov is contracted to Renault but I would find a way to put him in my car way before I put Kvyat in a perfectly good F1 car.!!!

Artem looks to be head and shoulders above both Sirotkin and Kvyat if you need a Russian driver.


I would completely disagree.

Kvyat won GP3, as well as having two strong seasons in Formula Renault 2.0 against some decent drivers.

Sirotkin finished two GP2 seasons in third, including his rookie year, which isn't an easy thing to do.

Markelov's first two GP2 seasons saw him finish 24th and 13th, the latter of which was Sirotkin's rookie GP2 season. Markelov then finished 10th in his third season at that level (Sirotkin again finished 3rd) and only made a significant breakthrough in his fourth GP2 season. His GP2 career is very much reminiscent of the likes of Jolyon Palmer (28th, 11th, 7th, 1st) and Pastor Maldonado (11th, 5th, 6th, 1st).

Generally if a driver is not winning races regularly before their fourth season at that level, it just means they're making up for a lack of talent through superior experience of the car/tyres.


This just proves Williams aren't interested in Markelov's (lack of) skills but the huge financial backing he brings.

:nod:

They have recent history of doing this, Maldonado, Senna, Stroll and Sirotkin, drivers with some talent but even more money.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:53 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
He'd only know that if he was putting him in a Merc.

Bottas has a performance clause for 2020 which if he meets would Wolff then buy out his contract?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:15 pm 
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I know literally the whole world (including Ocon) believe that Lance will take his place & not Perez's seat instead. But am surprised, there hasn't been any kind of announcement from Lawrence Stroll or the consortium as a whole talking about the future driver lineup, short & long term goals & any changes to the philosophy of the team going ahead.

If Lance does take Ocon's seat, we can safely assume that fatherhood has more impetus for him than being a good businessman! The remaining members of the consortium surely must be having a lot of faith in Lance. Maybe Lance is not that bad but doubt if he's better than Ocon who's fast & consistent. He has the right attitude & it's hard to dislike him!

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:37 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
I know literally the whole world (including Ocon) believe that Lance will take his place & not Perez's seat instead. But am surprised, there hasn't been any kind of announcement from Lawrence Stroll or the consortium as a whole talking about the future driver lineup, short & long term goals & any changes to the philosophy of the team going ahead.

If Lance does take Ocon's seat, we can safely assume that fatherhood has more impetus for him than being a good businessman! The remaining members of the consortium surely must be having a lot of faith in Lance. Maybe Lance is not that bad but doubt if he's better than Ocon who's fast & consistent. He has the right attitude & it's hard to dislike him!

I think what might be holding up the 2019 announcement is that they are trying to get Stroll in the car for this year but trying to break a Mercedes contract might be that bit harder than trying to break a driver contract?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:30 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
I know literally the whole world (including Ocon) believe that Lance will take his place & not Perez's seat instead. But am surprised, there hasn't been any kind of announcement from Lawrence Stroll or the consortium as a whole talking about the future driver lineup, short & long term goals & any changes to the philosophy of the team going ahead.

If Lance does take Ocon's seat, we can safely assume that fatherhood has more impetus for him than being a good businessman! The remaining members of the consortium surely must be having a lot of faith in Lance. Maybe Lance is not that bad but doubt if he's better than Ocon who's fast & consistent. He has the right attitude & it's hard to dislike him!

I think what might be holding up the 2019 announcement is that they are trying to get Stroll in the car for this year but trying to break a Mercedes contract might be that bit harder than trying to break a driver contract?


If there is no way for them to break Ocon's contract for 2018 (which I would assume is the case) and Force India have already decided on Stroll and Perez for 2019, I can't imagine there is anything Lawrence Stroll could offer (realistically, of course) that would entice Mercedes to agree to letting them drop Ocon for the remaining races. Mercedes have nothing to gain from doing so, particularly if Esteban isn't going to be on the grid in 2019.

Incidentally, wouldn't it be a bit bizarre if Mercedes were to drop Bottas for Ocon come 2020 if Esteban isn't even racing in F1 next year? When was the last time one of F1's front-running teams put a driver into their car who wasn't on the F1 grid the previous year?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:33 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
I know literally the whole world (including Ocon) believe that Lance will take his place & not Perez's seat instead. But am surprised, there hasn't been any kind of announcement from Lawrence Stroll or the consortium as a whole talking about the future driver lineup, short & long term goals & any changes to the philosophy of the team going ahead.

If Lance does take Ocon's seat, we can safely assume that fatherhood has more impetus for him than being a good businessman! The remaining members of the consortium surely must be having a lot of faith in Lance. Maybe Lance is not that bad but doubt if he's better than Ocon who's fast & consistent. He has the right attitude & it's hard to dislike him!

I think what might be holding up the 2019 announcement is that they are trying to get Stroll in the car for this year but trying to break a Mercedes contract might be that bit harder than trying to break a driver contract?


If there is no way for them to break Ocon's contract for 2018 (which I would assume is the case) and Force India have already decided on Stroll and Perez for 2019, I can't imagine there is anything Lawrence Stroll could offer (realistically, of course) that would entice Mercedes to agree to letting them drop Ocon for the remaining races. Mercedes have nothing to gain from doing so, particularly if Esteban isn't going to be on the grid in 2019.

Incidentally, wouldn't it be a bit bizarre if Mercedes were to drop Bottas for Ocon come 2020 if Esteban isn't even racing in F1 next year? When was the last time one of F1's front-running teams put a driver into their car who wasn't on the F1 grid the previous year?


Mercedes hired Schumacher when they were the current champions. Renault took Alonso after a year out. McLaren hired Hamilton as a rookie. It's happaned a few times over the last 20 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
I know literally the whole world (including Ocon) believe that Lance will take his place & not Perez's seat instead. But am surprised, there hasn't been any kind of announcement from Lawrence Stroll or the consortium as a whole talking about the future driver lineup, short & long term goals & any changes to the philosophy of the team going ahead.

If Lance does take Ocon's seat, we can safely assume that fatherhood has more impetus for him than being a good businessman! The remaining members of the consortium surely must be having a lot of faith in Lance. Maybe Lance is not that bad but doubt if he's better than Ocon who's fast & consistent. He has the right attitude & it's hard to dislike him!

I think what might be holding up the 2019 announcement is that they are trying to get Stroll in the car for this year but trying to break a Mercedes contract might be that bit harder than trying to break a driver contract?


If there is no way for them to break Ocon's contract for 2018 (which I would assume is the case) and Force India have already decided on Stroll and Perez for 2019, I can't imagine there is anything Lawrence Stroll could offer (realistically, of course) that would entice Mercedes to agree to letting them drop Ocon for the remaining races. Mercedes have nothing to gain from doing so, particularly if Esteban isn't going to be on the grid in 2019.

Incidentally, wouldn't it be a bit bizarre if Mercedes were to drop Bottas for Ocon come 2020 if Esteban isn't even racing in F1 next year? When was the last time one of F1's front-running teams put a driver into their car who wasn't on the F1 grid the previous year?

Yeah that's what I was saying and Wolff's not happy with how third parties have let Ocon down in the first place.

I'm thinking more that Ocon will be placed in another team first.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:17 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
I know literally the whole world (including Ocon) believe that Lance will take his place & not Perez's seat instead. But am surprised, there hasn't been any kind of announcement from Lawrence Stroll or the consortium as a whole talking about the future driver lineup, short & long term goals & any changes to the philosophy of the team going ahead.

If Lance does take Ocon's seat, we can safely assume that fatherhood has more impetus for him than being a good businessman! The remaining members of the consortium surely must be having a lot of faith in Lance. Maybe Lance is not that bad but doubt if he's better than Ocon who's fast & consistent. He has the right attitude & it's hard to dislike him!

I think what might be holding up the 2019 announcement is that they are trying to get Stroll in the car for this year but trying to break a Mercedes contract might be that bit harder than trying to break a driver contract?


If there is no way for them to break Ocon's contract for 2018 (which I would assume is the case) and Force India have already decided on Stroll and Perez for 2019, I can't imagine there is anything Lawrence Stroll could offer (realistically, of course) that would entice Mercedes to agree to letting them drop Ocon for the remaining races. Mercedes have nothing to gain from doing so, particularly if Esteban isn't going to be on the grid in 2019.

Incidentally, wouldn't it be a bit bizarre if Mercedes were to drop Bottas for Ocon come 2020 if Esteban isn't even racing in F1 next year? When was the last time one of F1's front-running teams put a driver into their car who wasn't on the F1 grid the previous year?


Mercedes hired Schumacher when they were the current champions. Renault took Alonso after a year out. McLaren hired Hamilton as a rookie. It's happaned a few times over the last 20 years.

Renault and McLaren were not the defending champs in those scenarios with Alonso and Hamilton. As for Michael; he was already a 7 time WDC. That maybe earns you a bit of credibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:42 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
I know literally the whole world (including Ocon) believe that Lance will take his place & not Perez's seat instead. But am surprised, there hasn't been any kind of announcement from Lawrence Stroll or the consortium as a whole talking about the future driver lineup, short & long term goals & any changes to the philosophy of the team going ahead.

If Lance does take Ocon's seat, we can safely assume that fatherhood has more impetus for him than being a good businessman! The remaining members of the consortium surely must be having a lot of faith in Lance. Maybe Lance is not that bad but doubt if he's better than Ocon who's fast & consistent. He has the right attitude & it's hard to dislike him!

I think what might be holding up the 2019 announcement is that they are trying to get Stroll in the car for this year but trying to break a Mercedes contract might be that bit harder than trying to break a driver contract?


If there is no way for them to break Ocon's contract for 2018 (which I would assume is the case) and Force India have already decided on Stroll and Perez for 2019, I can't imagine there is anything Lawrence Stroll could offer (realistically, of course) that would entice Mercedes to agree to letting them drop Ocon for the remaining races. Mercedes have nothing to gain from doing so, particularly if Esteban isn't going to be on the grid in 2019.

Incidentally, wouldn't it be a bit bizarre if Mercedes were to drop Bottas for Ocon come 2020 if Esteban isn't even racing in F1 next year? When was the last time one of F1's front-running teams put a driver into their car who wasn't on the F1 grid the previous year?


Mercedes hired Schumacher when they were the current champions. Renault took Alonso after a year out. McLaren hired Hamilton as a rookie. It's happaned a few times over the last 20 years.

Renault and McLaren were not the defending champs in those scenarios with Alonso and Hamilton. As for Michael; he was already a 7 time WDC. That maybe earns you a bit of credibility.


They were all front running teams hiring drivers who hadn't been on the grid the previous season. I was only answering the question.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:54 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:

If there is no way for them to break Ocon's contract for 2018 (which I would assume is the case) and Force India have already decided on Stroll and Perez for 2019, I can't imagine there is anything Lawrence Stroll could offer (realistically, of course) that would entice Mercedes to agree to letting them drop Ocon for the remaining races. Mercedes have nothing to gain from doing so, particularly if Esteban isn't going to be on the grid in 2019.

Incidentally, wouldn't it be a bit bizarre if Mercedes were to drop Bottas for Ocon come 2020 if Esteban isn't even racing in F1 next year? When was the last time one of F1's front-running teams put a driver into their car who wasn't on the F1 grid the previous year?


Mercedes hired Schumacher when they were the current champions. Renault took Alonso after a year out. McLaren hired Hamilton as a rookie. It's happaned a few times over the last 20 years.

Renault and McLaren were not the defending champs in those scenarios with Alonso and Hamilton. As for Michael; he was already a 7 time WDC. That maybe earns you a bit of credibility.


They were all front running teams hiring drivers who hadn't been on the grid the previous season. I was only answering the question.

I hear you but I think the situation is a bit different when you are actually the defending champs.

Incidentally; regarding Ocon; I think he actually firmly has Perez beat on pace. Singapore was not the first time Sergio has taken him out of a race (and he did take him out intentionally IMO). I think Sergio is well aware of the fact that Ocon is the better driver.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2019
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:57 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
I know literally the whole world (including Ocon) believe that Lance will take his place & not Perez's seat instead. But am surprised, there hasn't been any kind of announcement from Lawrence Stroll or the consortium as a whole talking about the future driver lineup, short & long term goals & any changes to the philosophy of the team going ahead.

If Lance does take Ocon's seat, we can safely assume that fatherhood has more impetus for him than being a good businessman! The remaining members of the consortium surely must be having a lot of faith in Lance. Maybe Lance is not that bad but doubt if he's better than Ocon who's fast & consistent. He has the right attitude & it's hard to dislike him!

I think what might be holding up the 2019 announcement is that they are trying to get Stroll in the car for this year but trying to break a Mercedes contract might be that bit harder than trying to break a driver contract?


If there is no way for them to break Ocon's contract for 2018 (which I would assume is the case) and Force India have already decided on Stroll and Perez for 2019, I can't imagine there is anything Lawrence Stroll could offer (realistically, of course) that would entice Mercedes to agree to letting them drop Ocon for the remaining races. Mercedes have nothing to gain from doing so, particularly if Esteban isn't going to be on the grid in 2019.

Incidentally, wouldn't it be a bit bizarre if Mercedes were to drop Bottas for Ocon come 2020 if Esteban isn't even racing in F1 next year? When was the last time one of F1's front-running teams put a driver into their car who wasn't on the F1 grid the previous year?


As per what I read in article, Otmar & the team probably don't want a driver change (Ocon & Lance swap) this year as Force India's target is to score as many points as possible to help them climb in the WCC table. If Lance were to come in, he surely will need a few races to get up to speed & understand the VJM11 car completely. That's precious races wasted out of the 6 races left. Still this is not official but if Lance were to take Ocon's seat still, it could happen at Russia.

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