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Who does Verstappen assume he will pass without difficulty?
Vettel 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Raikkonen 34%  34%  [ 10 ]
Bottas 34%  34%  [ 10 ]
Ricciardo 10%  10%  [ 3 ]
Hamilton 21%  21%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 29
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:08 pm 
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In the article on this site: Verstappen says crash was ‘a bit odd’

the text reads:

Quote:
Verstappen, though, is hoping that he can at least recover from 15th to fifth.

“It should be alright, up to P5 should be alright,” he added.


This suggests Verstappen feels, at least in this race, he can definitely pass one of the Ferraris, Mercedes or the other Red Bull. But beyond that first pass from the top group it will be more difficult.

Who is it that he can assume he will pass without difficulty?
Hamilton as he is closer at the start? His own team mate as you always try and beat your team mate? Bottas? Raikkonen?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:51 am 
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Raikkonen. Max has made it pretty clear he doesn't rate Kimi very highly.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:06 am 
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Raikkonen for sure, and to be fair if everything does go his way he probably will. As of right now everything else equal I think verstappen will out drive Raikkonen 75% of the time... The other 25% he crashes out

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:03 am 
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He has to keep his car on the road before he can start thinking about passing 10 cars.

I reckon, barring any opportune SC or VSC moments, he'll finish 6th.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:23 am 
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Yep... He needs to be sure that he doesn't pass himself, first... :uhoh:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:26 am 
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I feel like out of the drivers in the top 3 teams, Bottas is the least respected by his peers. He’s probably a better driver than Raikkonen nowadays, but it does feel like none of the top guys think too much of him.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:42 am 
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This isn't about any driver, it is about which of the top 3 cars loses the most performance in dirty air. Which of the top three top teams (with the exception of Verstappen) has a car mired back in the pack?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:01 am 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
This isn't about any driver, it is about which of the top 3 cars loses the most performance in dirty air. Which of the top three top teams (with the exception of Verstappen) has a car mired back in the pack?


Hamilton not going to wait around either..... but it does seem logical he will most likely be the first Verstappen will catch. If fact any run in with traffic and it could happen soon. But that is all "most likely" and "could", rather than the level of confidence the remark seemed to convey.

But your point about the Mercedes and dirty air is worth considering. Haas could be difficult to get by I guess, but I would think Hamilton would have what he needs to get past most of the block in front.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:00 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
I feel like out of the drivers in the top 3 teams, Bottas is the least respected by his peers. He’s probably a better driver than Raikkonen nowadays, but it does feel like none of the top guys think too much of him.


Bottas is just about the hardest guy to pass in F1 though. Kimi generally offers almost no resistance.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:11 am 
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What Max said and the thread topic itself are two different things. He's not saying he thinks he'll rock up behind Lewis (or any of those starting in the top four) and breeze past him because that driver is so easy to overtake. Just that over the race distance, he's targeting recovering to P5.

FWIW I do think he's talking about Lewis in this instance because a) Lewis is out of position and b) Red Bull looked to be the fastest car in terms of long-run pace, with Mercedes appearing to be behind Ferrari. If they have problem free races then two Ferraris and Ricciardo are going to be out of reach, and unless Max can recover a lot of places very quickly, I'd imagine he'll lose too much time coming through the field to finish ahead of Bottas (again, assuming Bottas has a clean race). But Lewis could be passable, although again if he has a good start and Max doesn't really make up a lot of places then he probably won't be.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:23 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
I feel like out of the drivers in the top 3 teams, Bottas is the least respected by his peers. He’s probably a better driver than Raikkonen nowadays, but it does feel like none of the top guys think too much of him.


Bottas is just about the hardest guy to pass in F1 though. Kimi generally offers almost no resistance.

Respect what you say there. I remember here in 2015, he held Vettel behind him in a faster Ferrari for simply ages. Then did similar with Kimi in another race. Bottas may be weak in other areas, but generally is very good at defending. Although sometimes could do better on the first lap. But later on in the race, even if he's slow, he puts in some great defensive moves.

I don't know who or what car Verstappen is on about, but I think he will finish 6th unless he makes a mistake or any of the other 5 in the top teams have a bad day.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:51 pm 
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iano wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
This isn't about any driver, it is about which of the top 3 cars loses the most performance in dirty air. Which of the top three top teams (with the exception of Verstappen) has a car mired back in the pack?


Hamilton not going to wait around either..... but it does seem logical he will most likely be the first Verstappen will catch. If fact any run in with traffic and it could happen soon. But that is all "most likely" and "could", rather than the level of confidence the remark seemed to convey.

But your point about the Mercedes and dirty air is worth considering. Haas could be difficult to get by I guess, but I would think Hamilton would have what he needs to get past most of the block in front.


Let us factor in other factors. Reliability has become THE major concern. The Mercedes car is not optimized for the first few races of the calendar. But once we hit Barcelona, that car will dominate. So a good tactician will just play it safe, and wait until the conditions are more favorable. Basically, there is too much to risk by going after a podium, not less a win. Hamilton's chances will definitely come at Barcelona and after.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:08 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Yep... He needs to be sure that he doesn't pass himself, first... :uhoh:


I had to read that 3 times wondering how it got passed the filter (Im on my phone screen)

Oh, and I think Kimi because they will have to fuel save


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:33 pm 
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Well he kinda passed Lewis....

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:33 pm 
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Made short work of Hamilton and himself.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Turns out it was Hamilton. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:07 pm 
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Not gonna lie, that overtake on Hamilton was very good. Max made the mistake of assuming that Lewis would yield on the outside though.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:13 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Not gonna lie, that overtake on Hamilton was very good. Max made the mistake of assuming that Lewis would yield on the outside though.


I'm a big cheer leader for Max but I was so annoyed at all the drivers effectively cheating by pushing each other off the track . It made me happy when Lewis just refused to move beyond the edge of the track. I hope others follow suit.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:25 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Not gonna lie, that overtake on Hamilton was very good. Max made the mistake of assuming that Lewis would yield on the outside though.


I'm a big cheer leader for Max but I was so annoyed at all the drivers effectively cheating by pushing each other off the track . It made me happy when Lewis just refused to move beyond the edge of the track. I hope others follow suit.

To be honest, it’s ironic because Lewis is one of the worst offenders of this (just as Nico).

But yeah, the collision today was Max’s fault

I heard Lewis call him a d*ck when he saw the replay of the incident in the podium room


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:27 pm 
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:lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Max has been executing far too many "wield/keep position, or crash" sort of moves in these last 2 season... and he`s been lucky to come out unscratched in many of them. His "luck" has probably run out.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:55 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Not gonna lie, that overtake on Hamilton was very good. Max made the mistake of assuming that Lewis would yield on the outside though.


I'm a big cheer leader for Max but I was so annoyed at all the drivers effectively cheating by pushing each other off the track . It made me happy when Lewis just refused to move beyond the edge of the track. I hope others follow suit.


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:30 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Not gonna lie, that overtake on Hamilton was very good. Max made the mistake of assuming that Lewis would yield on the outside though.


I'm a big cheer leader for Max but I was so annoyed at all the drivers effectively cheating by pushing each other off the track . It made me happy when Lewis just refused to move beyond the edge of the track. I hope others follow suit.


:thumbup:

Well Max kind of pulled a Lewis trademark move. I swear if Lewis was racing another Lewis they´d crash every time.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:36 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Not gonna lie, that overtake on Hamilton was very good. Max made the mistake of assuming that Lewis would yield on the outside though.


I'm a big cheer leader for Max but I was so annoyed at all the drivers effectively cheating by pushing each other off the track . It made me happy when Lewis just refused to move beyond the edge of the track. I hope others follow suit.


:thumbup:

Well Max kind of pulled a Lewis trademark move. I swear if Lewis was racing another Lewis they´d crash every time.

It's not fair to single Hamilton out. They all do it these days unfortunately.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:52 pm 
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j man wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Not gonna lie, that overtake on Hamilton was very good. Max made the mistake of assuming that Lewis would yield on the outside though.


I'm a big cheer leader for Max but I was so annoyed at all the drivers effectively cheating by pushing each other off the track . It made me happy when Lewis just refused to move beyond the edge of the track. I hope others follow suit.


:thumbup:

Well Max kind of pulled a Lewis trademark move. I swear if Lewis was racing another Lewis they´d crash every time.

It's not fair to single Hamilton out. They all do it these days unfortunately.

Some more than others but you´re right, fair enough.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:12 pm 
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It's annoying when any driver does it but I don't think Lewis does it anymore than most tbh.

And Lewis does usually move off the track to get out of the way. See a lot of racing with Rosberg or Vettel in Spain last year etc.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:


:lol:
Vettel's reaction. That's one amused look.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:09 am 
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Although Verstappen was only in front of Hamilton for a few moments, a little more luck and he could have stayed in front. He did prove that he could catch one of the top 6 runners and pass them, and catching the others could have been his real challenge.

Of course, he never said that any of it would be risk free.

But it is possible he was thinking he could catch Hamilton before the traffic settled, and if that is what he was thinking he was correct.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:16 am 
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Eventually Verstappen will realise he can't just put his car wherever he wants and expect the move to work. He crashes more than any driver since Maldonado, and always has the gall to put forward some fanciful excuse for why he cocked it up.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:52 am 
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Toby. wrote:
Eventually Verstappen will realise he can't just put his car wherever he wants and expect the move to work. He crashes more than any driver since Maldonado, and always has the gall to put forward some fanciful excuse for why he cocked it up.


Exactly. He needs to learn a little patience, and the "He's only a kid" schtick I have seen people using to excuse him really doesn't fly any more. He's 20, and this is his 4th year in F1. Max seems to think he can plant his car anywhere, and the other drivers will all move out of his way, and it doesn't quite work that way.

Everyone has been touting him as the Next Big Thing since 2015, and sure, his brilliance has been on display at times, but these flashes of brilliance are starting to be dwarfed by the costly errors, affecting both himself, and other drivers, and he rarely admits fault. As James Allen said on commentary for the Australian GP "His father was talented too, but he was such a rock-ape" :lol:
Not that I am suggesting Max is a rock-ape, rather that drivers can be supremely talented, but some lack the patience at the right time, or the race smarts to maximise that talent.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:08 am 
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Max needs to find himself in the position of being a championship contender - that seemed to do it for many drivers in the past. I mean to a certain extent, good drivers are always going to make moves that are completely bonkers when they don't work out (and amazingly brilliant when they do), but chasing a championship teaches temperance like nothing else.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:02 am 
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I heard the interview and I think he said up to the top 5 will be alright, so he would get past all but the top 3 teams.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:09 am 
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I'm assuming he meant Hamilton since he too was out of position, and indeed it only took him one lap to reach him.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:37 am 
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bourbon19 wrote:
Max needs to find himself in the position of being a championship contender - that seemed to do it for many drivers in the past. I mean to a certain extent, good drivers are always going to make moves that are completely bonkers when they don't work out (and amazingly brilliant when they do), but chasing a championship teaches temperance like nothing else.


To me your are on point here. When moves like these work out they will have a big impact and can really give advantage and the crowd will love it. Sometimes they don't work out, like getting a flat tyre, and then the driver is "stupid", "impatient"...etc.

That's racing. On to China! :)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
Eventually Verstappen will realise he can't just put his car wherever he wants and expect the move to work. He crashes more than any driver since Maldonado, and always has the gall to put forward some fanciful excuse for why he cocked it up.

Apparently he lied when he said that he had a sudden burst of 150hp when he crashed in qualifying.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:15 pm 
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Verstappen33 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
Max needs to find himself in the position of being a championship contender - that seemed to do it for many drivers in the past. I mean to a certain extent, good drivers are always going to make moves that are completely bonkers when they don't work out (and amazingly brilliant when they do), but chasing a championship teaches temperance like nothing else.


To me your are on point here. When moves like these work out they will have a big impact and can really give advantage and the crowd will love it. Sometimes they don't work out, like getting a flat tyre, and then the driver is "stupid", "impatient"...etc.

That's racing. On to China! :)

It's not the way to compete for titles though.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:03 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Toby. wrote:
Eventually Verstappen will realise he can't just put his car wherever he wants and expect the move to work. He crashes more than any driver since Maldonado, and always has the gall to put forward some fanciful excuse for why he cocked it up.

Apparently he lied when he said that he had a sudden burst of 150hp when he crashed in qualifying.

He did? I wouldn't be surprised, but I haven't seen that.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:19 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
Max needs to find himself in the position of being a championship contender - that seemed to do it for many drivers in the past. I mean to a certain extent, good drivers are always going to make moves that are completely bonkers when they don't work out (and amazingly brilliant when they do), but chasing a championship teaches temperance like nothing else.


To me your are on point here. When moves like these work out they will have a big impact and can really give advantage and the crowd will love it. Sometimes they don't work out, like getting a flat tyre, and then the driver is "stupid", "impatient"...etc.

That's racing. On to China! :)

It's not the way to compete for titles though.


Hamilton won the 2008 championship whilst being very aggressive.

As per usual a driver has had two bad races in a row and everyone is going over the top. Coupled with the fact the lad is still younger than most drivers are when they make their debut. Hardly any surprise he loses points due to immaturity. Has any driver been the finished article at 20?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:36 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
Max needs to find himself in the position of being a championship contender - that seemed to do it for many drivers in the past. I mean to a certain extent, good drivers are always going to make moves that are completely bonkers when they don't work out (and amazingly brilliant when they do), but chasing a championship teaches temperance like nothing else.


To me your are on point here. When moves like these work out they will have a big impact and can really give advantage and the crowd will love it. Sometimes they don't work out, like getting a flat tyre, and then the driver is "stupid", "impatient"...etc.

That's racing. On to China! :)

It's not the way to compete for titles though.


Hamilton won the 2008 championship whilst being very aggressive.

As per usual a driver has had two bad races in a row and everyone is going over the top. Coupled with the fact the lad is still younger than most drivers are when they make their debut. Hardly any surprise he loses points due to immaturity. Has any driver been the finished article at 20?

I tend to agree with this. Max will learn over time that risk/reward considerations are important and that it's not just about making a move but actually completing it cleanly. He often dives into an opening and then runs wide or makes contact. Once his nose is in front, he loses track sometimes. Turn one in Mexico last year was like that.

He'll tidy up his act over time. Lewis is arguably too conservative these days. Who would have thought we'd ever say that back in 2008!?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:06 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Verstappen33 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
Max needs to find himself in the position of being a championship contender - that seemed to do it for many drivers in the past. I mean to a certain extent, good drivers are always going to make moves that are completely bonkers when they don't work out (and amazingly brilliant when they do), but chasing a championship teaches temperance like nothing else.


To me your are on point here. When moves like these work out they will have a big impact and can really give advantage and the crowd will love it. Sometimes they don't work out, like getting a flat tyre, and then the driver is "stupid", "impatient"...etc.

That's racing. On to China! :)

It's not the way to compete for titles though.


Hamilton won the 2008 championship whilst being very aggressive.

As per usual a driver has had two bad races in a row and everyone is going over the top. Coupled with the fact the lad is still younger than most drivers are when they make their debut. Hardly any surprise he loses points due to immaturity. Has any driver been the finished article at 20?

I tend to agree with this. Max will learn over time that risk/reward considerations are important and that it's not just about making a move but actually completing it cleanly. He often dives into an opening and then runs wide or makes contact. Once his nose is in front, he loses track sometimes. Turn one in Mexico last year was like that.

He'll tidy up his act over time. Lewis is arguably too conservative these days. Who would have thought we'd ever say that back in 2008!?


Yes Lewis has had a total change of approach. He is probably the most pragmatic out of any other than Kimi these days.


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