planetf1.com

It is currently Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:52 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:39 pm
Posts: 47
mikeyg123 wrote:
I saw someone break their leg in a football match the other day. What rules should be changed?


Hi,

Given that F1 has an inherent engineering aspect to performance and safety, I think your attempt to draw comparison to football irrelevant.

A better comparison might be made by looking at incidences and responses thereto in other forms of motorsport.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:12 pm
Posts: 6297
Location: Nebraska, USA
Mort Canard wrote:
I like the process that the Indycars use. One tire changer on each corner. The same guy removes the centerlock, removes the old tire, installs the new tire and reinstalls centerlock. This would remove eight men from pit lane in F1 pit stops. One of those men that would have been removed was the guy that got run over. The guy with the impact wrench is always outboard of the car's perimeter and will not be in the way the way that the Team Red mechanic was.

It takes about 6 seconds for an Indycar crew to get tires on the car and another 2 or so seconds to finish fueling. It will be the same for everyone and you can still make up time by a superior pit stop or lose time with a bungled one.

Change the brakes and cooling systems to compensate for these longer pit stops but keeping people out of pit lane is a safety issue.

Personally I would not mind if F1 went back to cast iron or steel rotors on the brakes.


I believe that the INDYcars also have pneumatic jacks, eliminating the jack man too.

_________________
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:31 am
Posts: 165
Just bring back refuelling.

Fuel always takes longer than tyres, so the tire changers aren’t under as much pressure for that 0.001 second.

Plus fuel weights adds a different element to the spectacle. Might see a back marker team run light in Qualy to achieve a Hollywood lap and throw a cat amongst the pidgeons early.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:41 pm 
Deduct them race points and they will stop releasing the cars. I watched a video yesterday saying that the Ferrari wheel nut is a flawed design, Haas use the same as Ferrari. That is 4 failures in 2 race weekends now. Affecting all their drivers, except Vettel.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:59 pm
Posts: 484
Mayhem wrote:
Blake wrote:
AravJ wrote:
They should have just one person at each wheel. There are far too many people in the firing line that also causes confusion, and obstruction of sight. There should be a human that triggers (when he is satisfied) when the lights can do its work.


I tend to agree, and have said so before, that the number of people involved in F1 pitstops is just too many, way too many. I know that I am well in the minority here in the forum, but 2 second pitstops do nothing for me.



They have a set number of people for a reason. Every crew member has a job to do on the car. No ones just standing there because they want to be around a car. Ask your self this how long can a F1 car stay stationary without the brakes catching fire??? Or the engine over heating due to lack of air flow???

Pit stops HAVE to be that fast for the current formula. The cars cannot just sit there without having cooling fans strategically placed. The anti stall has to be turned on by the driver as well and that cant be on for long either. This whole idea is just asking for more problems and such an implementation of a rule would call for significant changes on the current cars.

Don't see the cars having issues after the 5 or 10 second penalty applied by not being allowed to work on a car during a pitstop...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 13769
lamo wrote:
Deduct them race points and they will stop releasing the cars. I watched a video yesterday saying that the Ferrari wheel nut is a flawed design, Haas use the same as Ferrari. That is 4 failures in 2 race weekends now. Affecting all their drivers, except Vettel.


They're already deducted race points. Today they lost at least 12.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:44 pm 
MistaVega23 wrote:
Why not just 3 men changing all 4 wheels? Pitstops will be longer but at least then they'll be sure that all 4 wheels are changed properly.


This would kill strategy and make all races 1 stop as instead of losing 23 seconds int he pits, you would lose 35 seconds per stop.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:59 pm
Posts: 484
lamo wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Why not just 3 men changing all 4 wheels? Pitstops will be longer but at least then they'll be sure that all 4 wheels are changed properly.


This would kill strategy and make all races 1 stop as instead of losing 23 seconds int he pits, you would lose 35 seconds per stop.

That depends on tyre degradation to be fair, they would pit if it was going to be quicker to have better tyres...

Do think there are too many people on a pit stop, but don't know how many I'd allow...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 1959
mikeyg123 wrote:
lamo wrote:
Deduct them race points and they will stop releasing the cars. I watched a video yesterday saying that the Ferrari wheel nut is a flawed design, Haas use the same as Ferrari. That is 4 failures in 2 race weekends now. Affecting all their drivers, except Vettel.


They're already deducted race points. Today they lost at least 12.


... which does not seem to be enough. Deducting 50 wcc points would be appropriate together with double of the fine
IMO.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 13769
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
lamo wrote:
Deduct them race points and they will stop releasing the cars. I watched a video yesterday saying that the Ferrari wheel nut is a flawed design, Haas use the same as Ferrari. That is 4 failures in 2 race weekends now. Affecting all their drivers, except Vettel.


They're already deducted race points. Today they lost at least 12.


... which does not seem to be enough. Deducting 50 wcc points would be appropriate together with double of the fine
IMO.


I don't really see what that would achieve. They are trying not run anyone over as it is. The problem with points penalties is that they hit lower scoring teams much harder than higher scoring teams. 50 points wouldn't have made any difference to Mercedes last year but would have cost Williams, Renault or STR three places.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:37 pm 
dompclarke wrote:
lamo wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Why not just 3 men changing all 4 wheels? Pitstops will be longer but at least then they'll be sure that all 4 wheels are changed properly.


This would kill strategy and make all races 1 stop as instead of losing 23 seconds int he pits, you would lose 35 seconds per stop.

That depends on tyre degradation to be fair, they would pit if it was going to be quicker to have better tyres...

Do think there are too many people on a pit stop, but don't know how many I'd allow...

Too many races are already 1 stop, today was a marginal 1 or 2 stopper. If today had pit stops that were 10 seconds longer then the entire field would have 1 stopped. Not many tracks are 2 stops as it is, this was supposed to be a nailed on 2 stopper and teams managed to 1 stop.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 10:02 am
Posts: 1242
Location: Far side of Koozebane
Paint a safety line on the garage side of the pit bay away from the car all the way along the pit lane.

Simple new rule:

All pit crew and any tools must be behind the garage side of the safety line before the car can be released from the pit bay.

Not only does it keep the speed factor of the tyre change but also adds the variable of how quick the pit crew can get behind the line.

_________________
Question: If a compulsive liar tells you they're a compulsive liar, are they really a compulsive liar?

2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:13 pm
Posts: 1300
Jezza13 wrote:
Paint a safety line on the garage side of the pit bay away from the car all the way along the pit lane.

Simple new rule:

All pit crew and any tools must be behind the garage side of the safety line before the car can be released from the pit bay.

Not only does it keep the speed factor of the tyre change but also adds the variable of how quick the pit crew can get behind the line.


This ^^^

To remove the possibility of a crew member being injured, make it so that they must remain behind a line in the garage until the car has come to a complete stop, and that the car can not be released until all crew members are back behind the line.

_________________
Only dogs, mothers, and quality undergarments give unconditional support.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:25 pm
Posts: 420
Limit men over the wall on pit stops and use a 4-way bar to apply and remove the wheel fastenings.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 8:25 pm
Posts: 420
The Real Culprit - is whoever gave Kimi the Green - without having ACCURATELY observed that actions that were taking place on the stop.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:31 am
Posts: 1719
GarJE wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
Ban F1 altogether. Will make things even safer.


Thanks for such reasonable input.


I kept it as reasonable as the original post.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:07 pm
Posts: 7767
I don't think 4 seconds rule would have saved that poor mechanic :< Ferrari needed more time to deal with that wheel. Maybe FIA needs to introduce some requirement for person who works on wheel to press some button to confirm he changed the wheel or two buttons with each hand to make sure he is finished and isn't doing anything with wheel. Without that confirmation there shouldn't be green light for driver. Alternatively there could be some robust sensors in wheel that activate when wheel is properly mounted or changed at all.

_________________
eeee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:24 am
Posts: 650
mikeyg123 wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
lamo wrote:
Deduct them race points and they will stop releasing the cars. I watched a video yesterday saying that the Ferrari wheel nut is a flawed design, Haas use the same as Ferrari. That is 4 failures in 2 race weekends now. Affecting all their drivers, except Vettel.


They're already deducted race points. Today they lost at least 12.


... which does not seem to be enough. Deducting 50 wcc points would be appropriate together with double of the fine
IMO.


I don't really see what that would achieve. They are trying not run anyone over as it is. The problem with points penalties is that they hit lower scoring teams much harder than higher scoring teams. 50 points wouldn't have made any difference to Mercedes last year but would have cost Williams, Renault or STR three places.

Surely it would be much more effective to ban them from the next race - loss of potential points (podium and potential fight for a win) and sponsorship revenue. If the threat of a race ban for an unsafe release is hanging over every team, the occurrence of unsafe releases will fall massively


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 13769
angrypirate wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
lamo wrote:
Deduct them race points and they will stop releasing the cars. I watched a video yesterday saying that the Ferrari wheel nut is a flawed design, Haas use the same as Ferrari. That is 4 failures in 2 race weekends now. Affecting all their drivers, except Vettel.


They're already deducted race points. Today they lost at least 12.


... which does not seem to be enough. Deducting 50 wcc points would be appropriate together with double of the fine
IMO.


I don't really see what that would achieve. They are trying not run anyone over as it is. The problem with points penalties is that they hit lower scoring teams much harder than higher scoring teams. 50 points wouldn't have made any difference to Mercedes last year but would have cost Williams, Renault or STR three places.

Surely it would be much more effective to ban them from the next race - loss of potential points (podium and potential fight for a win) and sponsorship revenue. If the threat of a race ban for an unsafe release is hanging over every team, the occurrence of unsafe releases will fall massively


Why? They are already trying as hard as they can not to release a car unsafely. I really don't see anymore of a deterrent than the natural being effective. Accidents happen and do so in any sport.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:59 pm
Posts: 484
lamo wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
lamo wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Why not just 3 men changing all 4 wheels? Pitstops will be longer but at least then they'll be sure that all 4 wheels are changed properly.


This would kill strategy and make all races 1 stop as instead of losing 23 seconds int he pits, you would lose 35 seconds per stop.

That depends on tyre degradation to be fair, they would pit if it was going to be quicker to have better tyres...

Do think there are too many people on a pit stop, but don't know how many I'd allow...

Too many races are already 1 stop, today was a marginal 1 or 2 stopper. If today had pit stops that were 10 seconds longer then the entire field would have 1 stopped. Not many tracks are 2 stops as it is, this was supposed to be a nailed on 2 stopper and teams managed to 1 stop.

Although I didn't state it what I meant was they could alter the tyres to keep the need for pitstops if this was the way they decided to go.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:05 pm
Posts: 287
Anybody else surprised they kept the race going with a mechanic lying on the ground in the pits with his leg snapped in half?

A car parks on the side of the road and they bring out the VSC, guy lying on the ground in the pitlane with that injury, and not only do they keep the race going, they keep the pitlane open?!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:42 pm
Posts: 1969
ChopSchuey wrote:
Anybody else surprised they kept the race going with a mechanic lying on the ground in the pits with his leg snapped in half?

A car parks on the side of the road and they bring out the VSC, guy lying on the ground in the pitlane with that injury, and not only do they keep the race going, they keep the pitlane open?!


I expected them to close the pit lane TBH. And teh C4 commentary considered that they might have to have a safety car.

_________________
Top Three Team Champions 2017 (With Jezza13)
Group Pick 'Em 2016 Champion


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:42 am
Posts: 958
lamo wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Why not just 3 men changing all 4 wheels? Pitstops will be longer but at least then they'll be sure that all 4 wheels are changed properly.


This would kill strategy and make all races 1 stop as instead of losing 23 seconds int he pits, you would lose 35 seconds per stop.


Pirelli can take care of that
I watched the formula 2 which has one man at each wheel, while slower than F1, it looked and worked pretty well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 2189
AravJ wrote:
lamo wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Why not just 3 men changing all 4 wheels? Pitstops will be longer but at least then they'll be sure that all 4 wheels are changed properly.


This would kill strategy and make all races 1 stop as instead of losing 23 seconds int he pits, you would lose 35 seconds per stop.


Pirelli can take care of that
I watched the formula 2 which has one man at each wheel, while slower than F1, it looked and worked pretty well.


I agree with this. Having one man per wheel is safer but still adds an amount of skill and variation to pit stops.

Keep the traffic light but every wheel man has a big button BEHIND them, they have to turn around and push when they've changed the wheel. Once all 4 have been pressed - Green light.

Pirelli can take care of the tyres by making them softer, to the point where tyre wear/performance cancels out a 10 second stop.

_________________
I remember when this website was all fields.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:59 pm
Posts: 484
Banana Man wrote:
AravJ wrote:
lamo wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Why not just 3 men changing all 4 wheels? Pitstops will be longer but at least then they'll be sure that all 4 wheels are changed properly.


This would kill strategy and make all races 1 stop as instead of losing 23 seconds int he pits, you would lose 35 seconds per stop.


Pirelli can take care of that
I watched the formula 2 which has one man at each wheel, while slower than F1, it looked and worked pretty well.


I agree with this. Having one man per wheel is safer but still adds an amount of skill and variation to pit stops.

Keep the traffic light but every wheel man has a big button BEHIND them, they have to turn around and push when they've changed the wheel. Once all 4 have been pressed - Green light.

Pirelli can take care of the tyres by making them softer, to the point where tyre wear/performance cancels out a 10 second stop.

Though it could be less safe if there isn't a man to control the wheels that aren't on the car. If one could disappear down the pitlane and cause problems to people or other cars it's not a good solution. This is why although I'd like reduced number working on the car I don't know what number to pick!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:01 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:53 pm
Posts: 1537
Location: Canada
I also like the 1 man per wheel idea. It would still be a skills competition and exciting. There are too many people out there during current stops, it's easy to miss a situation.

Can anyone explain to me exactly how the "light" works. I would have thought each wheel man has a button that he presses and once all 4 are done the light comes on or something like that. Is it a sensor as one post seems to indicate?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 13769
Herb wrote:
ChopSchuey wrote:
Anybody else surprised they kept the race going with a mechanic lying on the ground in the pits with his leg snapped in half?

A car parks on the side of the road and they bring out the VSC, guy lying on the ground in the pitlane with that injury, and not only do they keep the race going, they keep the pitlane open?!


I expected them to close the pit lane TBH. And teh C4 commentary considered that they might have to have a safety car.


Nobody's racing past it though are they. They're going slower than safety car speeds anyway. God knows what the c4 commentary team thought a safety car would achieve.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:52 am
Posts: 2590
mikeyg123 wrote:
Herb wrote:
ChopSchuey wrote:
Anybody else surprised they kept the race going with a mechanic lying on the ground in the pits with his leg snapped in half?

A car parks on the side of the road and they bring out the VSC, guy lying on the ground in the pitlane with that injury, and not only do they keep the race going, they keep the pitlane open?!


I expected them to close the pit lane TBH. And teh C4 commentary considered that they might have to have a safety car.


Nobody's racing past it though are they. They're going slower than safety car speeds anyway. God knows what the c4 commentary team thought a safety car would achieve.
Agreed. Also, the pit lane is physically separated from the race circuit (unlike a stricken car parked on the side).

_________________
Where I'm going, I don't need roads


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9240
Banana Man wrote:
AravJ wrote:
lamo wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Why not just 3 men changing all 4 wheels? Pitstops will be longer but at least then they'll be sure that all 4 wheels are changed properly.


This would kill strategy and make all races 1 stop as instead of losing 23 seconds int he pits, you would lose 35 seconds per stop.


Pirelli can take care of that
I watched the formula 2 which has one man at each wheel, while slower than F1, it looked and worked pretty well.


I agree with this. Having one man per wheel is safer but still adds an amount of skill and variation to pit stops.

Keep the traffic light but every wheel man has a big button BEHIND them, they have to turn around and push when they've changed the wheel. Once all 4 have been pressed - Green light.

Pirelli can take care of the tyres by making them softer, to the point where tyre wear/performance cancels out a 10 second stop.

Don't see what would be achieved by having both the one man per wheel rule and the separate button? Surely the safety would be increased just as much by having the wheel gun man pressing the button after he's done (while keeping the rest of the crew)?

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:58 am
Posts: 259
Location: Kansas
Covalent wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
AravJ wrote:
lamo wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Why not just 3 men changing all 4 wheels? Pitstops will be longer but at least then they'll be sure that all 4 wheels are changed properly.


This would kill strategy and make all races 1 stop as instead of losing 23 seconds int he pits, you would lose 35 seconds per stop.


Pirelli can take care of that
I watched the formula 2 which has one man at each wheel, while slower than F1, it looked and worked pretty well.


I agree with this. Having one man per wheel is safer but still adds an amount of skill and variation to pit stops.

Keep the traffic light but every wheel man has a big button BEHIND them, they have to turn around and push when they've changed the wheel. Once all 4 have been pressed - Green light.

Pirelli can take care of the tyres by making them softer, to the point where tyre wear/performance cancels out a 10 second stop.

Don't see what would be achieved by having both the one man per wheel rule and the separate button? Surely the safety would be increased just as much by having the wheel gun man pressing the button after he's done (while keeping the rest of the crew)?


The point of one man per wheel is that there are less people in pit lane. Just that many less people to get in the way of the car or an errant wheel. The guy with the impact wrench does not stand in front of or in back of the wheel. When you look at the Indycar pitstops, the lone mechanic with the gun is always outboard of the wheel. The car has to go sideways to tag the guy with the wrench.

Indycar pitstops take about 8 seconds to complete with 6 seconds needed to change four tires. The rest is the length of time needed to finish fueling.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 2189
dompclarke wrote:
Though it could be less safe if there isn't a man to control the wheels that aren't on the car. If one could disappear down the pitlane and cause problems to people or other cars it's not a good solution. This is why although I'd like reduced number working on the car I don't know what number to pick!


It wouldn't be that difficult to have a rule that all wheels must be laid flat. Plus have a spare guy stood on either side (sufficiently clear of the car) to watch any wayward wheels.

Covalent wrote:
Don't see what would be achieved by having both the one man per wheel rule and the separate button? Surely the safety would be increased just as much by having the wheel gun man pressing the button after he's done (while keeping the rest of the crew)?


It would reduce the number of people needing to operate on and around the car by nearly two thirds.

People can make instinctive judgements based on what they anticipate, especially when under time pressure. It's so easy for someone to put their hand up because they think the other guy will have the wheel on in half a second or whatever.

_________________
I remember when this website was all fields.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9240
What I meant was that since both methods individually would increase the safety implementing both would be overkill IMO.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 10:02 am
Posts: 1242
Location: Far side of Koozebane
Everyone is talking about pit crew safety as the car leaves the pit box but we should also be looking a the risk of something like this happening as the car enters the pit box as well. The problem with all these scenarios is the there'll still be pit crew exposed when the car pull into the pit box doing 50 - 60 km/hr.

People have been hit before by a driver miss-judging the entry to the pit box or for some other reason before and it'll happen again. Any sensible new rule in to be implemented after this accident will need to find ways to isolate the pit crew from the car as much as practicable while the car enters and exits the pit box.

I'll repeat what I wrote above. If the FIA want to remove the risk of it happening again, they should be looking at a procedure to restrict pit crews from entering the pit apron until the car has come to a complete stop and the crews should need to be off the pit apron before the car moves away. It's a cheap fix, it's an effective fix, and it's a quick fix.

While there are people around the car when it's in motion, the risk of this happening again greatly increases.

_________________
Question: If a compulsive liar tells you they're a compulsive liar, are they really a compulsive liar?

2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:34 pm
Posts: 61
Things I do not want to see in F1.
Spec series, Yes HAAS should be building there own car.
Minimum pit stop times.
Fuel flow limit/ Air intake limit.
Tire's designed to degrade after a few laps.

I want the best driver's in the best most technologically advanced cars possible (safety concerns) driving flat out for the full duration of the race.

I would like re fueling brought back, but I understand the cost of shipping that large apparatus all over the world for races.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 2:04 pm
Posts: 1959
ShaneM wrote:
Things I do not want to see in F1.
Spec series, Yes HAAS should be building there own car.
Minimum pit stop times.
Fuel flow limit/ Air intake limit.
Tire's designed to degrade after a few laps.

I want the best driver's in the best most technologically advanced cars possible (safety concerns) driving flat out for the full duration of the race.

I would like re fueling brought back, but I understand the cost of shipping that large apparatus all over the world for races.


BiB: Formula 1 never was like this in its history. Never.

If you want that you need a competition where cars/drivers-combos run isolated each on its own against the clock and hide the info about the others' times. If they go head-to-head, there never will be flat out for the full duration of the race.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:05 pm
Posts: 287
mikeyg123 wrote:
Herb wrote:
ChopSchuey wrote:
Anybody else surprised they kept the race going with a mechanic lying on the ground in the pits with his leg snapped in half?

A car parks on the side of the road and they bring out the VSC, guy lying on the ground in the pitlane with that injury, and not only do they keep the race going, they keep the pitlane open?!


I expected them to close the pit lane TBH. And teh C4 commentary considered that they might have to have a safety car.


Nobody's racing past it though are they. They're going slower than safety car speeds anyway. God knows what the c4 commentary team thought a safety car would achieve.


Yes but didn't Force India pit whilst this was going on?

I seem to remember the commentators mentioning that Kimi stopped outside the Force India pit box, and that one of their cars was coming in and they were concerned about that.

I think a VSC should have happened and the pitlane closed, or at least the pitlane closed.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:45 am
Posts: 584
Location: Michigan, USA
I do think closing the pit lane might've made sense, but I assume the reason it was not done was that (in theory) no car other than a Ferrari would need to be entering that particular bit of space.

Regardless of whether or not a minimum pit stop time is in the spirit of F1, it wouldn't work to prevent accidents. Times when a wheel gets stuck, such as presumably that one, you'd have to have what would otherwise be a ludicriously high minimum time -- four or five seconds wouldn't cut it. Decreasing the number of mechanics on the car would also perhaps limit the risk of injury, and would clearly limit the number of individuals exposed to it, but it would by no means eliminate it. Then two, there's the risk of injury as a car comes in, and certainly a minimum stop time (unless, again, very high) would do nothing about that. Refueling would hardly increase the general safety of the pit stop, although it might reduce the likelyhood of that particular incident happening again due to the longer times. It would reintroduce others hazards.

Figuring out what went wrong with the light system really seems the best solution. Pit stop accidents are rare, so unless it becomes clear that the whole light system that Ferrari is using is inherently flawed, waiting to see if that can be easily sorted out before taking further precautions certainly would be better than implementing new measures that haven't been thoroughly thought through.

Jezza13 wrote:
Paint a safety line on the garage side of the pit bay away from the car all the way along the pit lane.

Simple new rule:

All pit crew and any tools must be behind the garage side of the safety line before the car can be released from the pit bay.

Not only does it keep the speed factor of the tyre change but also adds the variable of how quick the pit crew can get behind the line.

While it would increase pit stop times slightly, and thus would probably not be popular, I could see that working. One would still need some manner of sensor, button, or a human with a lollipop to signal the car when to go, of course, and that could still potentially fail (although it does seem likely that most people would notice if not everyone was behind a line).

_________________
Top Three: 7 wins, 23 podiums | 2016: 9th [6th] | 2017: 16th [6th] | 2018: 5th [8th]
Pick 10: 1 win, 7 podiums | 2016: 22nd | 2017: 21st | 2018: 2nd
Group Pick'em: 2 wins, 10 podiums | 2016: 14th | 2017: 10th | 2018: 10th


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:34 pm
Posts: 61
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
ShaneM wrote:
Things I do not want to see in F1.
Spec series, Yes HAAS should be building there own car.
Minimum pit stop times.
Fuel flow limit/ Air intake limit.
Tire's designed to degrade after a few laps.

I want the best driver's in the best most technologically advanced cars possible (safety concerns) driving flat out for the full duration of the race.

I would like re fueling brought back, but I understand the cost of shipping that large apparatus all over the world for races.


BiB: Formula 1 never was like this in its history. Never.

If you want that you need a competition where cars/drivers-combos run isolated each on its own
against the clock and hide the info about the others' times. If they go head-to-head, there never will be flat out for the full duration of the race.


I think you are taking what I said a little to far, I do not want drivers to have to slow down for things like saving fuel, tire's etc. I understand if you are in the lead you may slow down to save the car, that is not what I was referring to.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:01 pm
Posts: 588
When I saw this topic I immediately thought one mechanic per wheel was the obvious solution. Less men in the pit and less congestion around each wheel. But it is already too hard to make an alternate race strategy work so they should try and keep the pit stops as quick as possible. Not sure they need a massive overhaul really, when significant fines, some tweaks around positioning of the mechanics on entry and exit and some stricter control testing for the automated release systems should do the trick.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Minimum pitstop time
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9240
Apparently all other teams have the mechanics standing behind the wheel instead of in front of it, and even at the rest of the three wheels in the Ferrari pit box no one was standing in front of the wheel. Freak accident.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], Placid and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group