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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:48 am 
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Lotus49 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
not sure what is going on with ricciardo and red bull after watching his post race interview. i would guess now he will go to renault if they offer something.


What did he say?


Just frustrated they suddenly switched strategy and split strategies with Max just as he got in DRS range of Max.

Clearly just Red Bull getting rid of him Webber style rather than risk another Baku. Very weak of Red Bull imo and he's rightly frustrated.


I missed that, but yeah, some of his comments do make me think he wants to make a move. I just don't see a better ride on the horizon. He'd be better off staying with RB


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:56 am 
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There's certainly some tension between Ricciardo and Red Bull lately.

It's been a swift change since the Chinese and Monaco GPs where Ricciardo was their golden boy. Now it looks like Ricciardo is on the outer again.

I really think he would be best to change teams - Red Bull are great when they are behind you, but the Webber example shows they don't support both drivers equally, despite their claims.

I think driver announcements will come over the next couple of weeks - until Mercedes and Ferrari confirm their drivers there's still doors open.

The frostiness between Dan Ricciardo and Red Bull suggests the contract isn't sewn up yet.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:03 am 
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If the news about the manufacturers stonewalling over the engine regs change is right, I reckon Renault could be a good long term move if it's on offer.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:38 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
If the news about the manufacturers stonewalling over the engine regs change is right, I reckon Renault could be a good long term move if it's on offer.


Given Ricciardo is probably only looking for a two-year deal, I'm not sure I agree.

Renault (engines) haven't been able to close the gap to Ferrari and Mercedes for over 4 years. The deficit was as stark as ever yesterday.

Even if Renault (the team) could put together a chassis as good as Red Bull (and I don't see that happening), Ricciardo would still not have a title-worthy car.

If the loose rumour of Adrian Newey heading to the yellow team is true, then it might be more interesting.

Otherwise, anything other than Ferrari or Mercedes is going to be a big step backwards before 2021.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:50 am 
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Having the Renault engine might be the way to go next year, given it seems the Honda engine might not be as improved as it appeared at times earlier this year.

Honda engine too slow for Toro Rosso to score points – Gasly

Perhaps Ricciardo isn't convinced Red Bull has made the right move for 2019.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:12 am 
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Toby. wrote:
Having the Renault engine might be the way to go next year, given it seems the Honda engine might not be as improved as it appeared at times earlier this year.

Honda engine too slow for Toro Rosso to score points – Gasly

Perhaps Ricciardo isn't convinced Red Bull has made the right move for 2019.


That may be true, but you would have to think Red Bull would be in the best place to judge both engines, the working relationship and whether the promise of upgrades have been delivered.

My take on the Gasly situation is that Torro Rosso were running a high downforce setup at the British GP and it may not be the most aero efficient car on the grid...


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:45 am 
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bourbon19 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
not sure what is going on with ricciardo and red bull after watching his post race interview. i would guess now he will go to renault if they offer something.


What did he say?


Just frustrated they suddenly switched strategy and split strategies with Max just as he got in DRS range of Max.

Clearly just Red Bull getting rid of him Webber style rather than risk another Baku. Very weak of Red Bull imo and he's rightly frustrated.


I missed that, but yeah, some of his comments do make me think he wants to make a move. I just don't see a better ride on the horizon. He'd be better off staying with RB


I just think at this point he is ruining it for himself. RBR have treated him well, never held him back against Vettel (even favoured him when push came to shove, handing out TO's to Vettel), never held him back against Max. Yet he has been openly threatening to go elsewhere if someone offers him something, then expressing disappointment at some teams not showing enough interest, and saying that he'll then probably stay at RBR.

While he is a very sympathetic person, he isn't showing himself to be loyal, and isn't giving RBR any confidence of being able to build on him for the coming years, making them feel as if they are decidedly his second (or third!) choice.

I'm not sure whether RBR will now actively start to favor Max but if they do then you can't help but wonder if Dan hasn't brought it upon himself.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:12 am 
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mds wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
not sure what is going on with ricciardo and red bull after watching his post race interview. i would guess now he will go to renault if they offer something.


What did he say?


Just frustrated they suddenly switched strategy and split strategies with Max just as he got in DRS range of Max.

Clearly just Red Bull getting rid of him Webber style rather than risk another Baku. Very weak of Red Bull imo and he's rightly frustrated.


I missed that, but yeah, some of his comments do make me think he wants to make a move. I just don't see a better ride on the horizon. He'd be better off staying with RB


I just think at this point he is ruining it for himself. RBR have treated him well, never held him back against Vettel (even favoured him when push came to shove, handing out TO's to Vettel), never held him back against Max. Yet he has been openly threatening to go elsewhere if someone offers him something, then expressing disappointment at some teams not showing enough interest, and saying that he'll then probably stay at RBR.

While he is a very sympathetic person, he isn't showing himself to be loyal, and isn't giving RBR any confidence of being able to build on him for the coming years, making them feel as if they are decidedly his second (or third!) choice.

I'm not sure whether RBR will now actively start to favor Max but if they do then you can't help but wonder if Dan hasn't brought it upon himself.


I think he was loyal up until Redbull resigned Max for the big contract and announced him as "their" driver into the future. He then proceeded to outscore Max and obviously still wasn't taken serious, such as equal to Max, so went public, so to speak.

If your boss promotes your co worker and you outperform them but aren't offered anything close... what do you do?

I am speculating a fair bit in these comments though, who knows what happens behind closed doors. But I certainly think the Webber situation would be ringing close to home.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:25 am 
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red_alert wrote:
mds wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:

What did he say?


Just frustrated they suddenly switched strategy and split strategies with Max just as he got in DRS range of Max.

Clearly just Red Bull getting rid of him Webber style rather than risk another Baku. Very weak of Red Bull imo and he's rightly frustrated.


I missed that, but yeah, some of his comments do make me think he wants to make a move. I just don't see a better ride on the horizon. He'd be better off staying with RB


I just think at this point he is ruining it for himself. RBR have treated him well, never held him back against Vettel (even favoured him when push came to shove, handing out TO's to Vettel), never held him back against Max. Yet he has been openly threatening to go elsewhere if someone offers him something, then expressing disappointment at some teams not showing enough interest, and saying that he'll then probably stay at RBR.

While he is a very sympathetic person, he isn't showing himself to be loyal, and isn't giving RBR any confidence of being able to build on him for the coming years, making them feel as if they are decidedly his second (or third!) choice.

I'm not sure whether RBR will now actively start to favor Max but if they do then you can't help but wonder if Dan hasn't brought it upon himself.


I think he was loyal up until Redbull resigned Max for the big contract and announced him as "their" driver into the future. He then proceeded to outscore Max and obviously still wasn't taken serious, such as equal to Max, so went public, so to speak.

If your boss promotes your co worker and you outperform them but aren't offered anything close... what do you do?

I am speculating a fair bit in these comments though, who knows what happens behind closed doors. But I certainly think the Webber situation would be ringing close to home.


Well as you say, who knows what happened behind closed doors? Is it unrealistic to think RBR wanted to have some decent talks with Dan around that time as well but he wanted to keep his options open until deep in the 2018 season, prompting them to go full steam ahead with Max? And now Dan finds himself in this situation?

By the way, it might be technical, but since Max signed he has outscored Dan.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:05 am 
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Bit of an update on the Daniel Ricciardo saga.

https://www.news.com.au/sport/motorsport/formula-one/daniel-ricciardo-confirms-he-is-set-to-stay-at-red-bull/news-story/08ed96091d1bd07acde47ae11cd3eb87

So, according to our daily internet rag, DR is all set to re-sign for RB.

I was hoping he'd end up in yellow once it was pretty clear the red & silver doors were closed but anyway, he'll just have to up his game I suppose because to have any hope of being a WDC you first have to beat your team mate & I honestly can't see that happening if Verstappen can keep it on the tarmac.

He needs find about 2/10ths per lap to keep Verstappen honest and pressure him.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:29 pm 
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bourbon19 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
bourbon19 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
not sure what is going on with ricciardo and red bull after watching his post race interview. i would guess now he will go to renault if they offer something.


What did he say?


Just frustrated they suddenly switched strategy and split strategies with Max just as he got in DRS range of Max.

Clearly just Red Bull getting rid of him Webber style rather than risk another Baku. Very weak of Red Bull imo and he's rightly frustrated.


I missed that, but yeah, some of his comments do make me think he wants to make a move. I just don't see a better ride on the horizon. He'd be better off staying with RB


I missed that as well. The grid interview I saw prior to the race led me to believe that he had been planning a two stop all along. He was complaining about not being able to get the tyre-deg right and saying that they were planning to do something different. But maybe I was reading in between the lines too much there.

I just thought it was obvious that after initially losing ground to Verstappen, he was getting closer to him because he was smoking up his tyres, where as Verstappen was trying to keep them going. But it might have been true speed of course. I just didn't consider that at the time.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:09 am 
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mds wrote:

By the way, it might be technical, but since Max signed he has outscored Dan.


Is that correct? By my calculations it's Verstappen (452) to Ricciardo (526).

Edit: Oh, wait. You must mean since he signed this new contract.

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Last edited by Toby. on Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:11 am 
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Toby. wrote:
mds wrote:
By the way, it might be technical, but since Max signed he has outscored Dan.

Is that correct? By my calculations it's Verstappen (452) to Ricciardo (526).

That's total points at Red Bull. Since Max signed his new contract is only since mid-2017.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:12 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Toby. wrote:
mds wrote:
By the way, it might be technical, but since Max signed he has outscored Dan.

Is that correct? By my calculations it's Verstappen (452) to Ricciardo (526).

That's total points at Red Bull. Since Max signed his new contract is only since mid-2017.


My edit was seconds too slow!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:22 am 
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Spotted on the coastline of South East England earlier this week staring longingly in the general direction of Maranello

Still DR waits in hope.

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaRUfMvWAAAW5om.jpg

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:55 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Spotted on the coastline of South East England earlier this week staring longingly in the general direction of Maranello

Still DR waits in hope.

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaRUfMvWAAAW5om.jpg

That's definitely not in the UK!
Other than that :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:13 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Spotted on the coastline of South East England earlier this week staring longingly in the general direction of Maranello

Still DR waits in hope.

Image
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DaRUfMvWAAAW5om.jpg


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:31 am 
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That's a brilliant pic! Where did you find it?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:58 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
That's a brilliant pic! Where did you find it?

I was driving past him & took it.

I pulled over & let him know I was heading to Milton Keynes if he wanted a lift. He said " No thanks. I'm sure someone will be along to collect me soon"

A very pitiful, sad sight.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:27 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
That's a brilliant pic! Where did you find it?

I was driving past him & took it.

I pulled over & let him know I was heading to Milton Keynes if he wanted a lift. He said " No thanks. I'm sure someone will be along to collect me soon"

A very pitiful, sad sight.


Hahaha, true story!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:20 am 
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Given that RB appears to be past the point of diminishing returns in terms of aero development and a Tier 2 drivetrain, and the red and silver seats are taken... why wouldn’t Dan be looking at RoGro’s seat?

That team has pedigree, excellent growth in F1 so far, possibly the best power train, and a lot of room for aero improvement.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:17 am 
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CB1300 wrote:
Given that RB appears to be past the point of diminishing returns in terms of aero development and a Tier 2 drivetrain, and the red and silver seats are taken... why wouldn’t Dan be looking at RoGro’s seat?

That team has pedigree, excellent growth in F1 so far, possibly the best power train, and a lot of room for aero improvement.


I hope this is tongue in cheek. Anyone swapping Red Bull for Haas should seek immediate medical help.

He'll re-sign with Red Bull now and hope Honda keep improving. Hearing Horner a few times he seems to be suggesting Honda are now pumping more money in than Renault. Added to that they have outside consultants still helping, a bespoke fuel supplier again, Red Bull engineers on hand now, a full chassis dyno in Sakura as well as in MK (Red Bull) and are over a lot of their early drama's around their combustion process and gaining ERS knowledge so can develop instead of fixing things.

It's still a great seat and the best by a mile outside of Mercedes and Ferrari.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:35 am 
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CB1300 wrote:
Given that RB appears to be past the point of diminishing returns in terms of aero development and a Tier 2 drivetrain, and the red and silver seats are taken... why wouldn’t Dan be looking at RoGro’s seat?

That team has pedigree, excellent growth in F1 so far, possibly the best power train, and a lot of room for aero improvement.

As the aero rules are changing they'll be more scope for Red Bull again...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:35 am 
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CB1300 wrote:
Given that RB appears to be past the point of diminishing returns in terms of aero development and a Tier 2 drivetrain, and the red and silver seats are taken... why wouldn’t Dan be looking at RoGro’s seat?

That team has pedigree, excellent growth in F1 so far, possibly the best power train, and a lot of room for aero improvement.


Even with the Renault engine Red Bull would be challenging for the championship this year with a more reliable car for Ricciardo and more reliable driver in Verstappen's car. They're far from a busted flush.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:46 am 
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dompclarke wrote:
CB1300 wrote:
Given that RB appears to be past the point of diminishing returns in terms of aero development and a Tier 2 drivetrain, and the red and silver seats are taken... why wouldn’t Dan be looking at RoGro’s seat?

That team has pedigree, excellent growth in F1 so far, possibly the best power train, and a lot of room for aero improvement.

As the aero rules are changing they'll be more scope for Red Bull again...


Aren't next years regs in effect looking to reduce the amount of influence aero has on a cars performance?

If so, i'd have thought this would be more of a hindrance than help to RB's aero advantage.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
CB1300 wrote:
Given that RB appears to be past the point of diminishing returns in terms of aero development and a Tier 2 drivetrain, and the red and silver seats are taken... why wouldn’t Dan be looking at RoGro’s seat?

That team has pedigree, excellent growth in F1 so far, possibly the best power train, and a lot of room for aero improvement.

As the aero rules are changing they'll be more scope for Red Bull again...


Aren't next years regs in effect looking to reduce the amount of influence aero has on a cars performance?

If so, i'd have thought this would be more of a hindrance than help to RB's aero advantage.

I was more on about the diminishing returns bit, don't expose the obvious flaw in my post!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:07 pm 
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It seems Daniel missed his moment. He did everything he could do early in the season to make himself attractive to the brass at Ferrari and Mercedes but the doors were simply not open. Now it seems likely that Max will have him beat in the standings by the end of the year. Verstappen has cleaned up his act after a sloppy start and seems to be pretty consistently quicker than Daniel. Dan's horrendous luck with reliability is certainly not helping either.

It seems he's stuck but there are worse places to be than Red Bull racing.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 3:53 am 
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[quote="Jezza13”]Aren't next years regs in effect looking to reduce the amount of influence aero has on a cars performance?

If so, i'd have thought this would be more of a hindrance than help to RB's aero advantage.[/quote]

The refs are changing to reduce the effect of aero wash I thought.

This will probably reduce the amount of downforce. Red Bull have a knack for making downforce when it isn’t readily available.

Their most dominant years were when the cars had narrow tyres and a lack of aero scope.

It could actually work to their advantage.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:12 am 
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The fact nothing has come out regarding Raikkonen and Ricciardo's contracts for next year suggests to me there could be more to the Ferrari link than many of us may have believed.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:16 am 
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Toby. wrote:
The fact nothing has come out regarding Raikkonen and Ricciardo's contracts for next year suggests to me there could be more to the Ferrari link than many of us may have believed.

If Ferrari still haven't signed Kimi and if Daniel still hasn't signed for Red bull, this last race might make Ferrari pull the trigger. They have to at least acknowledge the possibility that Daniel could be an upgrade (not only from Kimi but from Seb).


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:17 am 
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Toby. wrote:
The fact nothing has come out regarding Raikkonen and Ricciardo's contracts for next year suggests to me there could be more to the Ferrari link than many of us may have believed.

Kimi being so bad-tempered at the team order given, also makes me wonder whether he's been told that his contract is not going to be renewed?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:36 am 
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LKS1 wrote:
Toby. wrote:
The fact nothing has come out regarding Raikkonen and Ricciardo's contracts for next year suggests to me there could be more to the Ferrari link than many of us may have believed.

Kimi being so bad-tempered at the team order given, also makes me wonder whether he's been told that his contract is not going to be renewed?

That occurred to me as well. Not yielding until the order was given straight out might imply he knows it's his last year, and he wants to win again before it's all over.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:54 am 
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Exediron wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Toby. wrote:
The fact nothing has come out regarding Raikkonen and Ricciardo's contracts for next year suggests to me there could be more to the Ferrari link than many of us may have believed.

Kimi being so bad-tempered at the team order given, also makes me wonder whether he's been told that his contract is not going to be renewed?

That occurred to me as well. Not yielding until the order was given straight out might imply he knows it's his last year, and he wants to win again before it's all over.

Ferrari's new management might yet change the situation and Kimi might get extension afterall. It was mentioned yesterday on the finnish broadcast that there has been a turnaround in Kimi's contract negotiations and there is now a rumor in the paddock that the new management are keen to keep Kimi onboard. Unfortunately I haven't found any better source for the rumor and whether it will be true remains to be seen. That would then mean that all the other doors to top team are closed for Ricciardo except to continue at Red Bull.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:26 am 
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froze wrote:
Exediron wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Toby. wrote:
The fact nothing has come out regarding Raikkonen and Ricciardo's contracts for next year suggests to me there could be more to the Ferrari link than many of us may have believed.

Kimi being so bad-tempered at the team order given, also makes me wonder whether he's been told that his contract is not going to be renewed?

That occurred to me as well. Not yielding until the order was given straight out might imply he knows it's his last year, and he wants to win again before it's all over.

Ferrari's new management might yet change the situation and Kimi might get extension afterall. It was mentioned yesterday on the finnish broadcast that there has been a turnaround in Kimi's contract negotiations and there is now a rumor in the paddock that the new management are keen to keep Kimi onboard. Unfortunately I haven't found any better source for the rumor and whether it will be true remains to be seen. That would then mean that all the other doors to top team are closed for Ricciardo except to continue at Red Bull.


I will have to watch it again but I'm sure Lee McKenzie said that Kimi remaining at Ferrari is a done deal.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:37 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Toby. wrote:
The fact nothing has come out regarding Raikkonen and Ricciardo's contracts for next year suggests to me there could be more to the Ferrari link than many of us may have believed.

If Ferrari still haven't signed Kimi and if Daniel still hasn't signed for Red bull, this last race might make Ferrari pull the trigger. They have to at least acknowledge the possibility that Daniel could be an upgrade (not only from Kimi but from Seb).


Ricciardo to Ferrari & Raikonnen to RB perhaps?

As much as i'd like to see Ric at Ferrari, I think he's a million to one shot.

He & Horner have pretty much said it's just the formalities to sort out before he signs.

I think the Ferrari seat choice will stay between either Raikonnen or Leclerc

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:26 am 
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F1 is a funny sport though and together with it's fans.

So everyone wanting Ricciardo to go Ferrari is basing their opinion on believing '14 will repeat itself, ignoring the fact that since '14 Ricciardo has not had such performance again, considering right now can't live with Max since he's ironed out his weakness.

Also the '14 Vettel is not the same guy since then.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:55 am 
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Rockie wrote:
F1 is a funny sport though and together with it's fans.

So everyone wanting Ricciardo to go Ferrari is basing their opinion on believing '14 will repeat itself, ignoring the fact that since '14 Ricciardo has not had such performance again, considering right now can't live with Max since he's ironed out his weakness.

Also the '14 Vettel is not the same guy since then.


I can't speak for others but I want to see him go to Ferrari simply because the Ferrari's the better car ATM and will be for the foreseeable future.

As for beating Vettel, I can't say whether he or wouldn't.

I just want to see him in a more competitive car.

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Question: If a compulsive liar tells you they're a compulsive liar, are they really a compulsive liar?

2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:13 am 
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Rockie wrote:
F1 is a funny sport though and together with it's fans.

So everyone wanting Ricciardo to go Ferrari is basing their opinion on believing '14 will repeat itself, ignoring the fact that since '14 Ricciardo has not had such performance again, considering right now can't live with Max since he's ironed out his weakness.


Also the '14 Vettel is not the same guy since then.


People would just find a Vettel v Ricciardo rematch more interesting than yet another season of watching Raikkonen waste a top seat.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:41 am 
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Exediron wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Toby. wrote:
The fact nothing has come out regarding Raikkonen and Ricciardo's contracts for next year suggests to me there could be more to the Ferrari link than many of us may have believed.

Kimi being so bad-tempered at the team order given, also makes me wonder whether he's been told that his contract is not going to be renewed?

That occurred to me as well. Not yielding until the order was given straight out might imply he knows it's his last year, and he wants to win again before it's all over.


I think that is reading too much in the tea leaves.

It sounded to me like Kimi was getting frustrated with the waffle of the conversation as much as anything. You may not have noticed, but Kimi is not really found a long conversations with shades of meaning, especially during the race. The instructions seemed to say ... 'maybe you should let him through...it could be for the best' rather that 'Kimi, we need you to let Seb through!'. Even when asked 'so are you saying I should let him through' they could not simply say 'Yes'.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:12 pm 
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Surely if Kimi knew it was his last year he would have ignored the order if anything?

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