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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:20 am 
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Zoue wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: it makes zero sense for Dan to leave Red Bull at the moment. They are improving practically with every race and once again look like they have the best chassis, even overcoming their PU deficit in races. With the new engine regulations around the corner which are supposed to equalise the engines to a certain extent, you'd have to put money on Red Bull being at the front again sooner rather than later


Asides from this which is the most important point, should he go to Mercedes or Ferrari and get beat by either Hamilton or Vettel, especially Vettel it will be the beginning of the end for him.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:05 am 
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Rockie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: it makes zero sense for Dan to leave Red Bull at the moment. They are improving practically with every race and once again look like they have the best chassis, even overcoming their PU deficit in races. With the new engine regulations around the corner which are supposed to equalise the engines to a certain extent, you'd have to put money on Red Bull being at the front again sooner rather than later


Asides from this which is the most important point, should he go to Mercedes or Ferrari and get beat by either Hamilton or Vettel, especially Vettel it will be the beginning of the end for him.

I'd bet my house it wouldn't happen. Raikkonen is too close to Vettel for me to think Dan wouldn't beat Seb again

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:52 am 
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mcdo wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: it makes zero sense for Dan to leave Red Bull at the moment. They are improving practically with every race and once again look like they have the best chassis, even overcoming their PU deficit in races. With the new engine regulations around the corner which are supposed to equalise the engines to a certain extent, you'd have to put money on Red Bull being at the front again sooner rather than later


Asides from this which is the most important point, should he go to Mercedes or Ferrari and get beat by either Hamilton or Vettel, especially Vettel it will be the beginning of the end for him.

I'd bet my house it wouldn't happen. Raikkonen is too close to Vettel for me to think Dan wouldn't beat Seb again

Only in qualifying. You wouldn't call them close in the race


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:52 am 
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mcdo wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: it makes zero sense for Dan to leave Red Bull at the moment. They are improving practically with every race and once again look like they have the best chassis, even overcoming their PU deficit in races. With the new engine regulations around the corner which are supposed to equalise the engines to a certain extent, you'd have to put money on Red Bull being at the front again sooner rather than later


Asides from this which is the most important point, should he go to Mercedes or Ferrari and get beat by either Hamilton or Vettel, especially Vettel it will be the beginning of the end for him.

I'd bet my house it wouldn't happen. Raikkonen is too close to Vettel for me to think Dan wouldn't beat Seb again
One of the big question marks Ricciardo must look into, if such a thing is possible at all, is what his exact position in Mercedes or Ferrari would be. He has a very solid idea what his present position is, and what Horner has said about Verstappen building Red Bull around himself. But at the moment, with Verstappen going through a very belated maturing phase, I think Zoue's point of view illustrates a very good case for staying - Ricciardo is allowed to race Verstappen.
At Mercedes, there might or might not be the same freedom; at Ferrari he can simply forget about it in the short run.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:51 pm 
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if RBR continue to favour Max when the [guy] puts himself ahead of the team - then he has to move - without a super superior car, max will continue to make stupid mistakes as he is a fast but very flawed driver


Last edited by Mod Titanium on Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:58 pm 
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I'd be on the phone to Ferrari right after the race trying to get a deal done. Nothing will change at RBR.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:59 pm 
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Jayman wrote:
I'd be on the phone to Ferrari right after the race trying to get a deal done. Nothing will change at RBR.
Why would he wish to become a number 2?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:06 pm 
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Jayman wrote:
I'd be on the phone to Ferrari right after the race trying to get a deal done. Nothing will change at RBR.


Yep if he ever needed any further evidence to leave rb, he got it today.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:07 pm 
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rivf1 wrote:
Jayman wrote:
I'd be on the phone to Ferrari right after the race trying to get a deal done. Nothing will change at RBR.


Yep if he ever needed any further evidence to leave rb, he got it today.

that depends on how the team handle it, surely?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:11 pm 
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It was both there faults really,,,Team orders from now on I bet.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:12 pm 
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lord byron wrote:
It was both there faults really,,,Team orders from now on I bet.

I'm not Ricciardo's biggest fan, but I really don't see what he did wrong. Max moved twice. It's pretty clear cut for me


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:19 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
rivf1 wrote:
Jayman wrote:
I'd be on the phone to Ferrari right after the race trying to get a deal done. Nothing will change at RBR.


Yep if he ever needed any further evidence to leave rb, he got it today.

that depends on how the team handle it, surely?


Well regardless how the team handle it, he got his answer with RB handing the overcut to max.


Last edited by rivf1 on Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
lord byron wrote:
It was both there faults really,,,Team orders from now on I bet.

I'm not Ricciardo's biggest fan, but I really don't see what he did wrong. Max moved twice. It's pretty clear cut for me


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:35 pm 
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rivf1 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
rivf1 wrote:
Jayman wrote:
I'd be on the phone to Ferrari right after the race trying to get a deal done. Nothing will change at RBR.


Yep if he ever needed any further evidence to leave rb, he got it today.

that depends on how the team handle it, surely?


Well regardless how the team handle it, he got his answer with RB handing the overcut to max.

He pitted first, which is normally an advantage. I don't think he was disadvantaged today


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:52 pm 
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I wonder how many of you noticed that we've seen today in Baku the primary reason why it will be a challenge for Daniel to secure a race seat with Ferrari or Mercedes. When you have two very strong drivers, it actually works against you with regards to winning titles. There will be on-track scraps and even collisions. There will be compromised race strategies and less than optimal outcomes as a result. Giving two drivers equal treatment creates an inherent disadvantage with respect to a team that has a clear 1-2 setup. It's why Alonso put up better title challenges in the 2010-2012 seasons than either Hamilton or Button. They were taking points off of each other and compromising with each other while he had the whole team focused on optimizing his results. As much though many of the most exciting seasons in F1 history were seasons where there was an intense teammate battle (1988-89, 2007, etc.); from the perspective of the team, it just leads to compromise and turmoil.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:47 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
I wonder how many of you noticed that we've seen today in Baku the primary reason why it will be a challenge for Daniel to secure a race seat with Ferrari or Mercedes. When you have two very strong drivers, it actually works against you with regards to winning titles. There will be on-track scraps and even collisions. There will be compromised race strategies and less than optimal outcomes as a result. Giving two drivers equal treatment creates an inherent disadvantage with respect to a team that has a clear 1-2 setup. It's why Alonso put up better title challenges in the 2010-2012 seasons than either Hamilton or Button. They were taking points off of each other and compromising with each other while he had the whole team focused on optimizing his results. As much though many of the most exciting seasons in F1 history were seasons where there was an intense teammate battle (1988-89, 2007, etc.); from the perspective of the team, it just leads to compromise and turmoil.


Well, we've been disagreeing with something on another thread, but agree here. I don't think Hamilton paired with Ricciardo or Verstappen would go down well. Just think what would have happened if Rosberg had been team mates last year. Mercedes were far closer to the rest. And Hamilton and Rosberg had done a Spain 2016, it would have been far more costly for them last year and this year. I think the fact that Bottas is a calm and careful driver really helps the team keep out of trouble. Hamilton's never had issues with Bottas while they are team mates and they both seem to obey team orders to allow each other through very well. I just feel that if Hamilton was with either of the Red Bull drivers when those 2 teams are close to them, the odd few moments of fighting against othger really hard like this will seriously hurt them. Now I know Bottas's pace isn't as high as Verstappen or Ricciardo, but I think he's a better team mate for Haimilton. Hamilton has shown so much respect to Bottas today especially. And over last year too. They seem to get on really well. I'm still thinking it is most likely Bottas will still be in Mercedes in 2019. To me, he's overall looked as good as Hamilton this season, although Hamilton is under performing. Anyhow, Bottas should feel good that he will likely have been leading the championship if not for the retirement through no fault of his own today.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:53 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I wonder how many of you noticed that we've seen today in Baku the primary reason why it will be a challenge for Daniel to secure a race seat with Ferrari or Mercedes. When you have two very strong drivers, it actually works against you with regards to winning titles. There will be on-track scraps and even collisions. There will be compromised race strategies and less than optimal outcomes as a result. Giving two drivers equal treatment creates an inherent disadvantage with respect to a team that has a clear 1-2 setup. It's why Alonso put up better title challenges in the 2010-2012 seasons than either Hamilton or Button. They were taking points off of each other and compromising with each other while he had the whole team focused on optimizing his results. As much though many of the most exciting seasons in F1 history were seasons where there was an intense teammate battle (1988-89, 2007, etc.); from the perspective of the team, it just leads to compromise and turmoil.


Well, we've been disagreeing with something on another thread, but agree here. I don't think Hamilton paired with Ricciardo or Verstappen would go down well. Just think what would have happened if Rosberg had been team mates last year. Mercedes were far closer to the rest. And Hamilton and Rosberg had done a Spain 2016, it would have been far more costly for them last year and this year. I think the fact that Bottas is a calm and careful driver really helps the team keep out of trouble. Hamilton's never had issues with Bottas while they are team mates and they both seem to obey team orders to allow each other through very well. I just feel that if Hamilton was with either of the Red Bull drivers when those 2 teams are close to them, the odd few moments of fighting against othger really hard like this will seriously hurt them. Now I know Bottas's pace isn't as high as Verstappen or Ricciardo, but I think he's a better team mate for Haimilton. Hamilton has shown so much respect to Bottas today especially. And over last year too. They seem to get on really well. I'm still thinking it is most likely Bottas will still be in Mercedes in 2019. To me, he's overall looked as good as Hamilton this season, although Hamilton is under performing. Anyhow, Bottas should feel good that he will likely have been leading the championship if not for the retirement through no fault of his own today.


I think Max showed truly tremendous race pace in the second half of the 2017 season. Ricciardo's is good, maybe very good, but I'm far more impressed by his pure race craft rather than his race pace. Bottas might be the equal of Ricciardo in the race pace department and I think he has better race starts. Of course, to show overall pace you do need to make moves on cars in front of you, so I give Ricciardo the overall edge - but I just found it curious as to how certain you seemed in making the statement that Bottas' pace isn't as "high" as that of Verstappen or Ricciardo.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:05 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
I wonder how many of you noticed that we've seen today in Baku the primary reason why it will be a challenge for Daniel to secure a race seat with Ferrari or Mercedes. When you have two very strong drivers, it actually works against you with regards to winning titles. There will be on-track scraps and even collisions. There will be compromised race strategies and less than optimal outcomes as a result. Giving two drivers equal treatment creates an inherent disadvantage with respect to a team that has a clear 1-2 setup. It's why Alonso put up better title challenges in the 2010-2012 seasons than either Hamilton or Button. They were taking points off of each other and compromising with each other while he had the whole team focused on optimizing his results. As much though many of the most exciting seasons in F1 history were seasons where there was an intense teammate battle (1988-89, 2007, etc.); from the perspective of the team, it just leads to compromise and turmoil.

I guess it just depends on how comfortable Daniel would be in a number 2 spot.

Because as we can see, when two drivers are in the same car, going at similar speeds fighting over the same piece of track, it is going to end up with points being left on the track.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:13 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I wonder how many of you noticed that we've seen today in Baku the primary reason why it will be a challenge for Daniel to secure a race seat with Ferrari or Mercedes. When you have two very strong drivers, it actually works against you with regards to winning titles. There will be on-track scraps and even collisions. There will be compromised race strategies and less than optimal outcomes as a result. Giving two drivers equal treatment creates an inherent disadvantage with respect to a team that has a clear 1-2 setup. It's why Alonso put up better title challenges in the 2010-2012 seasons than either Hamilton or Button. They were taking points off of each other and compromising with each other while he had the whole team focused on optimizing his results. As much though many of the most exciting seasons in F1 history were seasons where there was an intense teammate battle (1988-89, 2007, etc.); from the perspective of the team, it just leads to compromise and turmoil.


Well, we've been disagreeing with something on another thread, but agree here. I don't think Hamilton paired with Ricciardo or Verstappen would go down well. Just think what would have happened if Rosberg had been team mates last year. Mercedes were far closer to the rest. And Hamilton and Rosberg had done a Spain 2016, it would have been far more costly for them last year and this year. I think the fact that Bottas is a calm and careful driver really helps the team keep out of trouble. Hamilton's never had issues with Bottas while they are team mates and they both seem to obey team orders to allow each other through very well. I just feel that if Hamilton was with either of the Red Bull drivers when those 2 teams are close to them, the odd few moments of fighting against othger really hard like this will seriously hurt them. Now I know Bottas's pace isn't as high as Verstappen or Ricciardo, but I think he's a better team mate for Haimilton. Hamilton has shown so much respect to Bottas today especially. And over last year too. They seem to get on really well. I'm still thinking it is most likely Bottas will still be in Mercedes in 2019. To me, he's overall looked as good as Hamilton this season, although Hamilton is under performing. Anyhow, Bottas should feel good that he will likely have been leading the championship if not for the retirement through no fault of his own today.

I agree that Bottas and Hamilton will probably remain teammates at Mercedes. Bottas is not as fast as Hamilton and; while he has been very good this year, that hasn't changed. They do respect each other and they do seem to get along well. I don't see Mercedes changing that to bring in Daniel and Max is locked up at RBR for the next couple of years at least.

Ferrari is the more interesting prospect. Kimi is very long in the tooth and Ferrari may feel compelled to replace him. Signing a clearly inferior driver while someone like Daniel is on the market would not send a very positive message. I can't help but feel like it would probably be the wisest choice though.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:15 pm 
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Altair wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I wonder how many of you noticed that we've seen today in Baku the primary reason why it will be a challenge for Daniel to secure a race seat with Ferrari or Mercedes. When you have two very strong drivers, it actually works against you with regards to winning titles. There will be on-track scraps and even collisions. There will be compromised race strategies and less than optimal outcomes as a result. Giving two drivers equal treatment creates an inherent disadvantage with respect to a team that has a clear 1-2 setup. It's why Alonso put up better title challenges in the 2010-2012 seasons than either Hamilton or Button. They were taking points off of each other and compromising with each other while he had the whole team focused on optimizing his results. As much though many of the most exciting seasons in F1 history were seasons where there was an intense teammate battle (1988-89, 2007, etc.); from the perspective of the team, it just leads to compromise and turmoil.

I guess it just depends on how comfortable Daniel would be in a number 2 spot.

Because as we can see, when two drivers are in the same car, going at similar speeds fighting over the same piece of track, it is going to end up with points being left on the track.

Only because Max has no respect for other drivers. It wouldn't necessarily happen with other pairings


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:23 pm 
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My personal feeling is that no one is very eager in signing Daniel.

Merc are quite satisfied with Bottas. They don't need the complication.

Ferrari will most likely resign Kimi, as up to this point, he is getting the points. I think they want a Ferrari academy driver in for 2020.

Redbull would keep him for the right money. They don't want to pay megastar money for both him and Max.

So Renault maybe ......


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:27 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
My personal feeling is that no one is very eager in signing Daniel.

Merc are quite satisfied with Bottas. They don't need the complication.

Ferrari will most likely resign Kimi, as up to this point, he is getting the points. I think they want a Ferrari academy driver in for 2020.

Redbull would keep him for the right money. They don't want to pay megastar money for both him and Max.

So Renault maybe ......

Strangely I feel this might be his best bet. I actually agree with your whole post. The top teams seem to view Daniel as an inconvenience. He's so good that they are almost obligated to offer him a seat but none of them truly want to put their full weight behind him and none of them want him opposite their #1 guy. Renault do seem to be heading in the right direction and there is certainly a possibility that they will be the ones to get it right in 2021.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:50 pm 
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Regardless of top teams wanting Ricciardo, today is a sufficient argument for him to switch teams. Verstappen will not learn so fast, but he will keep harrassing him like this, which ultimately will drop Ricciardo's stock on the market. As said, Renault looks to be a good option, but I am pretty sure the Renault seat is being pursued by many other drivers, including maybe Fernando.

IMO, he could fit in better at Mercedes, Bottas has been average. Mercedes can no longer keep relying on one driver, given their dominance is over. If Kimi keeps putting up performances like this season, Merc do need a better 2nd driver, and Bottas surely isn't enough.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:50 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
My personal feeling is that no one is very eager in signing Daniel.

Merc are quite satisfied with Bottas. They don't need the complication.

Ferrari will most likely resign Kimi, as up to this point, he is getting the points. I think they want a Ferrari academy driver in for 2020.

Redbull would keep him for the right money. They don't want to pay megastar money for both him and Max.

So Renault maybe ......

Strangely I feel this might be his best bet. I actually agree with your whole post. The top teams seem to view Daniel as an inconvenience. He's so good that they are almost obligated to offer him a seat but none of them truly want to put their full weight behind him and none of them want him opposite their #1 guy. Renault do seem to be heading in the right direction and there is certainly a possibility that they will be the ones to get it right in 2021.


I don't know what they talked behind closed doors, but my guess they split the blame, or maybe supported Max a bit. This sends the right message to Daniel. We have made our big money choice, we would love to have you, but on our own terms not yours.

So what do you do if you're Daniel ? Come out and complain about the team being behind Max ? No, because you are sending the wrong message to other teams.

I think today was the first moment when Daniel realized that RBR are not keen on keeping him.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:08 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
My personal feeling is that no one is very eager in signing Daniel.

Merc are quite satisfied with Bottas. They don't need the complication.

Ferrari will most likely resign Kimi, as up to this point, he is getting the points. I think they want a Ferrari academy driver in for 2020.

Redbull would keep him for the right money. They don't want to pay megastar money for both him and Max.

So Renault maybe ......

Strangely I feel this might be his best bet. I actually agree with your whole post. The top teams seem to view Daniel as an inconvenience. He's so good that they are almost obligated to offer him a seat but none of them truly want to put their full weight behind him and none of them want him opposite their #1 guy. Renault do seem to be heading in the right direction and there is certainly a possibility that they will be the ones to get it right in 2021.

I think Daniel takes a look at Alonso and doesn't make that move.

He wants a championship winning car, or at least team. I also think he will want something that keeps him away from Max.

He probably goes to ferrari or stays put.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:12 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
My personal feeling is that no one is very eager in signing Daniel.

Merc are quite satisfied with Bottas. They don't need the complication.

Ferrari will most likely resign Kimi, as up to this point, he is getting the points. I think they want a Ferrari academy driver in for 2020.

Redbull would keep him for the right money. They don't want to pay megastar money for both him and Max.

So Renault maybe ......

Strangely I feel this might be his best bet. I actually agree with your whole post. The top teams seem to view Daniel as an inconvenience. He's so good that they are almost obligated to offer him a seat but none of them truly want to put their full weight behind him and none of them want him opposite their #1 guy. Renault do seem to be heading in the right direction and there is certainly a possibility that they will be the ones to get it right in 2021.


I don't know what they talked behind closed doors, but my guess they split the blame, or maybe supported Max a bit. This sends the right message to Daniel. We have made our big money choice, we would love to have you, but on our own terms not yours.

So what do you do if you're Daniel ? Come out and complain about the team being behind Max ? No, because you are sending the wrong message to other teams.

I think today was the first moment when Daniel realized that RBR are not keen on keeping him.

The thing horner kept saying over and over again was that the drivers are free to raxe as long as they give each other space.

I think that was a veiled shot at max.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:22 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: it makes zero sense for Dan to leave Red Bull at the moment. They are improving practically with every race and once again look like they have the best chassis, even overcoming their PU deficit in races. With the new engine regulations around the corner which are supposed to equalise the engines to a certain extent, you'd have to put money on Red Bull being at the front again sooner rather than later


Asides from this which is the most important point, should he go to Mercedes or Ferrari and get beat by either Hamilton or Vettel, especially Vettel it will be the beginning of the end for him.

I'd bet my house it wouldn't happen. Raikkonen is too close to Vettel for me to think Dan wouldn't beat Seb again



Lol to be homeless is no joke, using your logic, this year you believe Seb should keep beating Kimi like he has done since '15 if I get what you are saying.
If you believe '14 is going to repeat itself currently, then Max will outqualify Vettel by 1 second if he is in the Ferrari now then.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:30 pm 
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Time frame just shortened today. Daniel teams with Sebastian (whom he has beaten) or Lewis who he seems to have a lot of fun with.

After today I am having more and more trouble seeing him staying at RBR.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:39 pm 
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Altair wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
My personal feeling is that no one is very eager in signing Daniel.

Merc are quite satisfied with Bottas. They don't need the complication.

Ferrari will most likely resign Kimi, as up to this point, he is getting the points. I think they want a Ferrari academy driver in for 2020.

Redbull would keep him for the right money. They don't want to pay megastar money for both him and Max.

So Renault maybe ......

Strangely I feel this might be his best bet. I actually agree with your whole post. The top teams seem to view Daniel as an inconvenience. He's so good that they are almost obligated to offer him a seat but none of them truly want to put their full weight behind him and none of them want him opposite their #1 guy. Renault do seem to be heading in the right direction and there is certainly a possibility that they will be the ones to get it right in 2021.


I don't know what they talked behind closed doors, but my guess they split the blame, or maybe supported Max a bit. This sends the right message to Daniel. We have made our big money choice, we would love to have you, but on our own terms not yours.

So what do you do if you're Daniel ? Come out and complain about the team being behind Max ? No, because you are sending the wrong message to other teams.

I think today was the first moment when Daniel realized that RBR are not keen on keeping him.

The thing horner kept saying over and over again was that the drivers are free to raxe as long as they give each other space.

I think that was a veiled shot at max.


I remember the Webber Vettel Turkey moment. I know that when they showed the replay, everyone noticed that it was clearly Seb moving left into Webber. Martin Brundle seemed to be quite relaxed after that, saying it was Seb's fault. And this seemed to be the general feeling during the race.

After the race finished though, everything seemed to change 180, with the team saying something about not giving enough room and all the rest, and just minutes later, Mark was the one under scrutiny. It wasn't necesirily pointing fingers, but somehow Mark did not come out well.

For me it was a bit deja vu, and it seems the team is heading down the same route.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:23 pm 
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paul_gmb wrote:
Altair wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
My personal feeling is that no one is very eager in signing Daniel.

Merc are quite satisfied with Bottas. They don't need the complication.

Ferrari will most likely resign Kimi, as up to this point, he is getting the points. I think they want a Ferrari academy driver in for 2020.

Redbull would keep him for the right money. They don't want to pay megastar money for both him and Max.

So Renault maybe ......

Strangely I feel this might be his best bet. I actually agree with your whole post. The top teams seem to view Daniel as an inconvenience. He's so good that they are almost obligated to offer him a seat but none of them truly want to put their full weight behind him and none of them want him opposite their #1 guy. Renault do seem to be heading in the right direction and there is certainly a possibility that they will be the ones to get it right in 2021.


I don't know what they talked behind closed doors, but my guess they split the blame, or maybe supported Max a bit. This sends the right message to Daniel. We have made our big money choice, we would love to have you, but on our own terms not yours.

So what do you do if you're Daniel ? Come out and complain about the team being behind Max ? No, because you are sending the wrong message to other teams.

I think today was the first moment when Daniel realized that RBR are not keen on keeping him.

The thing horner kept saying over and over again was that the drivers are free to raxe as long as they give each other space.

I think that was a veiled shot at max.


I remember the Webber Vettel Turkey moment. I know that when they showed the replay, everyone noticed that it was clearly Seb moving left into Webber. Martin Brundle seemed to be quite relaxed after that, saying it was Seb's fault. And this seemed to be the general feeling during the race.

After the race finished though, everything seemed to change 180, with the team saying something about not giving enough room and all the rest, and just minutes later, Mark was the one under scrutiny. It wasn't necesirily pointing fingers, but somehow Mark did not come out well.

For me it was a bit deja vu, and it seems the team is heading down the same route.


It's not really. Back then the team inexplicably blamed Webber. Today they say both drivers are to blame. A sentiment shared by the stewards and seemingly the drivers themselves.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:08 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
Altair wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Strangely I feel this might be his best bet. I actually agree with your whole post. The top teams seem to view Daniel as an inconvenience. He's so good that they are almost obligated to offer him a seat but none of them truly want to put their full weight behind him and none of them want him opposite their #1 guy. Renault do seem to be heading in the right direction and there is certainly a possibility that they will be the ones to get it right in 2021.


I don't know what they talked behind closed doors, but my guess they split the blame, or maybe supported Max a bit. This sends the right message to Daniel. We have made our big money choice, we would love to have you, but on our own terms not yours.

So what do you do if you're Daniel ? Come out and complain about the team being behind Max ? No, because you are sending the wrong message to other teams.

I think today was the first moment when Daniel realized that RBR are not keen on keeping him.

The thing horner kept saying over and over again was that the drivers are free to raxe as long as they give each other space.

I think that was a veiled shot at max.


I remember the Webber Vettel Turkey moment. I know that when they showed the replay, everyone noticed that it was clearly Seb moving left into Webber. Martin Brundle seemed to be quite relaxed after that, saying it was Seb's fault. And this seemed to be the general feeling during the race.

After the race finished though, everything seemed to change 180, with the team saying something about not giving enough room and all the rest, and just minutes later, Mark was the one under scrutiny. It wasn't necesirily pointing fingers, but somehow Mark did not come out well.

For me it was a bit deja vu, and it seems the team is heading down the same route.


It's not really. Back then the team inexplicably blamed Webber. Today they say both drivers are to blame. A sentiment shared by the stewards and seemingly the drivers themselves.

Well, Ricciardo reportedly said: " "We're not into each other right now, it's more just about saying sorry to the team, just apologise the best way we can." . I don't think you can put too much store into public announcements. Looks to me like PR mode gone into overdrive.

I'm a bit baffled by the stewards decision, quite frankly


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Well, Ricciardo reportedly said: " "We're not into each other right now, it's more just about saying sorry to the team, just apologise the best way we can." . I don't think you can put too much store into public announcements. Looks to me like PR mode gone into overdrive.

I'm a bit baffled by the stewards decision, quite frankly


it the same story with the stewards every time. as long as it wasn't for a podium spot or the race win they will most likely not get too involed and since it was a double dnf they blame both drivers. Had ricc been the only one to retire the verdict would have been different.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:29 pm 
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Invade wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I wonder how many of you noticed that we've seen today in Baku the primary reason why it will be a challenge for Daniel to secure a race seat with Ferrari or Mercedes. When you have two very strong drivers, it actually works against you with regards to winning titles. There will be on-track scraps and even collisions. There will be compromised race strategies and less than optimal outcomes as a result. Giving two drivers equal treatment creates an inherent disadvantage with respect to a team that has a clear 1-2 setup. It's why Alonso put up better title challenges in the 2010-2012 seasons than either Hamilton or Button. They were taking points off of each other and compromising with each other while he had the whole team focused on optimizing his results. As much though many of the most exciting seasons in F1 history were seasons where there was an intense teammate battle (1988-89, 2007, etc.); from the perspective of the team, it just leads to compromise and turmoil.


Well, we've been disagreeing with something on another thread, but agree here. I don't think Hamilton paired with Ricciardo or Verstappen would go down well. Just think what would have happened if Rosberg had been team mates last year. Mercedes were far closer to the rest. And Hamilton and Rosberg had done a Spain 2016, it would have been far more costly for them last year and this year. I think the fact that Bottas is a calm and careful driver really helps the team keep out of trouble. Hamilton's never had issues with Bottas while they are team mates and they both seem to obey team orders to allow each other through very well. I just feel that if Hamilton was with either of the Red Bull drivers when those 2 teams are close to them, the odd few moments of fighting against othger really hard like this will seriously hurt them. Now I know Bottas's pace isn't as high as Verstappen or Ricciardo, but I think he's a better team mate for Haimilton. Hamilton has shown so much respect to Bottas today especially. And over last year too. They seem to get on really well. I'm still thinking it is most likely Bottas will still be in Mercedes in 2019. To me, he's overall looked as good as Hamilton this season, although Hamilton is under performing. Anyhow, Bottas should feel good that he will likely have been leading the championship if not for the retirement through no fault of his own today.


I think Max showed truly tremendous race pace in the second half of the 2017 season. Ricciardo's is good, maybe very good, but I'm far more impressed by his pure race craft rather than his race pace. Bottas might be the equal of Ricciardo in the race pace department and I think he has better race starts. Of course, to show overall pace you do need to make moves on cars in front of you, so I give Ricciardo the overall edge - but I just found it curious as to how certain you seemed in making the statement that Bottas' pace isn't as "high" as that of Verstappen or Ricciardo.

Well I suppose we maybe can't compare them over 1 lap as they are not at the same team. But I get the feeling that Given Bottas has often been quite a bit behind Hamilton in qualifying, that Ricciardo could well be quicker. Many seem to think verstappen is as quick as Hamilton in some areas. And while most of the time, Verstappen does look a bit faster than Ricciardo, is certainly isn't always the case. I guess I haven't got much evidence, but I just seem to think that Ricciardo is quicker. But maybe it isn't the case.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:48 pm 
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I think Ricciardo is very smart and incredibly savvy. I doubt he'll go to Ferrari if he's a nailed on No.2, nor will he stay at RBR if the team keep favouring Verstappen.

I am certain there is a lot more going on behind the scenes and it will probably all become clear when he makes his decision.

Not sure how likely this is, but I'd love to see a Hamilton/Ricciardo pairing, or failing that, Vettel/Ricciardo MK 2 (on equal terms of course, but then it IS Ferrari...)

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:43 am 
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speedysoprano wrote:
I think Ricciardo is very smart and incredibly savvy. I doubt he'll go to Ferrari if he's a nailed on No.2, nor will he stay at RBR if the team keep favouring Verstappen.

I am certain there is a lot more going on behind the scenes and it will probably all become clear when he makes his decision.

Not sure how likely this is, but I'd love to see a Hamilton/Ricciardo pairing, or failing that, Vettel/Ricciardo MK 2 (on equal terms of course, but then it IS Ferrari...)


To be honest, I think he is screwed.

Ferrari is the only hope, and nothing seems to be happening.

Mercedes seem happy to stay with current pairing.

There seems no option than to stay with Red Bull, who, given the way the contracts are set out, have little choice than to favour Verstappen. Baring Red Bull coming out and giving Ricciardo a contract to match Verstappen, he will be no2.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:55 am 
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I haven't seen any evidence that Mercedes and/or Ferrari are even interested in Ricciardo, apart from the political 'he's an excellent driver'-talk. Some journalists are acting like he can work for whatever team he wants, he only has to ask and that's far from the truth in my opinion.

His best option is to extend with Red Bull.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:27 pm 
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Llotyhy wrote:
I haven't seen any evidence that Mercedes and/or Ferrari are even interested in Ricciardo, apart from the political 'he's an excellent driver'-talk. Some journalists are acting like he can work for whatever team he wants, he only has to ask and that's far from the truth in my opinion.

His best option is to extend with Red Bull.


Best Option..... or only real option, at least only option for a team that can compete for wins.

So given the team has him in a bad negotiation position, do they give him a contract to match Verstappen because that will be best for team moral...... or a lesser contract because they can and that will save money and cement Verstappen as #1


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:02 am 
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iano wrote:
Llotyhy wrote:
I haven't seen any evidence that Mercedes and/or Ferrari are even interested in Ricciardo, apart from the political 'he's an excellent driver'-talk. Some journalists are acting like he can work for whatever team he wants, he only has to ask and that's far from the truth in my opinion.

His best option is to extend with Red Bull.


Best Option..... or only real option, at least only option for a team that can compete for wins.

So given the team has him in a bad negotiation position, do they give him a contract to match Verstappen because that will be best for team moral...... or a lesser contract because they can and that will save money and cement Verstappen as #1


I don't think he can ask for Verstappen's salary to be honest. Verstappen is valued higher I think, not just by RB, but also by the competition, so they needed to tie him down quickly, because everyone was openly flirting with Max last season. Ricciardo is not on the radar of Merc at least. Toto just said they are only looking at Hamilton, Bottas and Ocon. Ferrari have an amazing driver academy as well and have talents waiting in line as well. If it's too early for Leclerc they'll just extend Kimi another season.

I'd be surprised if he gets offered more than half of Verstappen's salary. And yes, he should take that anyway.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:10 am 
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The only other thing I can see happening is a switch with Carlos Sainz. I think they might be willing to pay more, but they'll have to show Ricciardo that they can fight for at least podiums by the end of the season I think.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:15 am 
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Rockie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: it makes zero sense for Dan to leave Red Bull at the moment. They are improving practically with every race and once again look like they have the best chassis, even overcoming their PU deficit in races. With the new engine regulations around the corner which are supposed to equalise the engines to a certain extent, you'd have to put money on Red Bull being at the front again sooner rather than later


Asides from this which is the most important point, should he go to Mercedes or Ferrari and get beat by either Hamilton or Vettel, especially Vettel it will be the beginning of the end for him.


We've already seen he is a faster driver than Vettel. I doubt this is the kind of thing that is playing on Dan's mind.


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