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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:22 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I haven't watched the race, just the quick highlights of the race, so I have a question for people who watched it properly. Did Alonso force Vettel out of track near the end?

The highlights didn't show much, but Alonso didn't get penalised so I am not sure if he did something wrong (thought one doesn't mean the other).

he did. He left Vettel with nowhere to go. I've never quite understood why but Alonso has never liked Vettel and I think that showed yesterday!

Flash back to Mexico last year and the Alonso/Hamilton battle near the end of the race, Hamilton got a run on the straight and got past Alonso going into the corner as Alonso defended the inside, Alonso simply ran deep on the brakes, touched Hamilton's car and forced him onto the outside kerb as he kept his position. Then later Hamilton managed to get on the inside of Alonso, he didn't touch Alonso's car but forced him wide almost off the track, Alonso immediately got on his radio and asked his team if Hamilton had forced him off the track, this for the benefit of the stewards who no doubt were listening in, his team said it was alright.

This being Alonso who says you must always leave the space and complains when he gets pushed off the track but he himself is one of the biggest culprits of forcing drivers off the track.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:27 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I haven't watched the race, just the quick highlights of the race, so I have a question for people who watched it properly. Did Alonso force Vettel out of track near the end?

The highlights didn't show much, but Alonso didn't get penalised so I am not sure if he did something wrong (thought one doesn't mean the other).

he did. He left Vettel with nowhere to go. I've never quite understood why but Alonso has never liked Vettel and I think that showed yesterday!


Thanks Zoue, I also get the feeling that they are not the best pals for some reason, no idea why.

When Alonso left Ferrari he said they would never win titles anytime soon and now we see Vettel challenging for titles having won 10 races whilst Alonso has not had even 1 podium, jealousy.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 8th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:29 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:

Not bad for a driver sometimes labelled as a car breaker whenever his car failed. ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:49 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I haven't watched the race, just the quick highlights of the race, so I have a question for people who watched it properly. Did Alonso force Vettel out of track near the end?

The highlights didn't show much, but Alonso didn't get penalised so I am not sure if he did something wrong (thought one doesn't mean the other).

he did. He left Vettel with nowhere to go. I've never quite understood why but Alonso has never liked Vettel and I think that showed yesterday!


Thanks Zoue, I also get the feeling that they are not the best pals for some reason, no idea why.

When Alonso left Ferrari he said they would never win titles anytime soon and now we see Vettel challenging for titles having won 10 races whilst Alonso has not had even 1 podium, jealousy.


You remember Vettel doing the same to Alonso in Brazil 2016? These two have been going tit for tat since at least Germany 2010.

Germany 2010 - Vettel on pole runs Alonso starting in second nearly off the track
Singapore 2010 - Alonso returns the favour.

Monza 2011 - Alonso runs Vettel on to the grass on curve grande
Monza 2012 - Vettel returns the favour

Brazil 2016 - Vettel runs Alonso out on exit (Alonso threatens to take him out next time he tries it)
China 2017 - Alonso returns the favour


I'm sure there's more. They had a total whinge fest in Silverstone 2014 as well while both doing what they were accusing the other of. These two haven't been getting on long before he left Ferrari although I'm sure it doesn't help.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:26 pm 
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impressed with hulkenberg so far this season and much of last. hes not really getting much notice. i dont generally like comparing teammates with previous teammate records etc but sainz was closer to verstappen then the hulk so far.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:43 pm 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
impressed with hulkenberg so far this season and much of last. hes not really getting much notice. i dont generally like comparing teammates with previous teammate records etc but sainz was closer to verstappen then the hulk so far.

Yeah he is in peak form so far this year. I really expected Sainz to out-perform him actually but Nico has been firmly in control of the matchup thus far. I think Nico knows that it's now or never for him if he's ever going to end up in a winning car. He needs to produce results right now and he's delivering.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:44 pm 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
impressed with hulkenberg so far this season and much of last. hes not really getting much notice. i dont generally like comparing teammates with previous teammate records etc but sainz was closer to verstappen then the hulk so far.


And how good does that make Perez 😮


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:47 pm 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
impressed with hulkenberg so far this season and much of last. hes not really getting much notice. i dont generally like comparing teammates with previous teammate records etc but sainz was closer to verstappen then the hulk so far.

I was mentioning this to my son as we watched the race. The consensus around here when Sainz made the move at the end of last season was that he'd show Hulk up and thus far that prediction has failed to materialize. Of course the season is long so who knows but Sainz was around for 99% of the development of this years car and did several races for the team last year so there isn't much bedding into the team required.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:03 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Some conclusions:

- Mercedes is complaining that they are now third, but their car never finished bellow 2 place. They are the favorites.
- Ferrari, this time timing messed them, they could not do anything.
- RBR, give them fresh tyres and they win. Maybe that's what the race director thought. Not really, I think he jus made a mistake.
- All the other teams are having no chance to touch these 3. HAAS&STR had one offs. That's it. They might have one more excellent performances, at it might also include Mclaren, Renault, even Force India. Perhaps. Renault is pushing up, but reaching top 3 is, at the moment, impossibility.

- If Hamilton does not win anytime soon, he will start thinking of retirement. He does not enjoy in the moment. And he got beaten twice by the Bottas.
- Bottas who was so much boo'd lasdt race was very very good, and may I say, might surprise in the WDC.
- Vettel was again great and graceful in defeat, with error not of his own. Good trace of character.
- Kimi, excellent in qualy, somehow always looses in the race.
- Ricciardo was shining, like the sun in the UK. He does it rare, but then, it's a glow.
- Verstappen will learn. He is too huge a talent to continue this way.
- Alonso can give up hopes of podiums, let alone victories. That chop on Vettel was unnecessary.
- Hulk with 6th was overshadowed by the dynamics of the race in is in my book a real star of the race, along with Bottas and Ricciardo.

A bit unfair to say that Bottas beat Hamilton in Bahrain after Hamilton's 5 place grid penalty.


Where did Bottas finish? Where did Lewis finish? Nothing unfair about the claim at all.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Blake wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Some conclusions:

- Mercedes is complaining that they are now third, but their car never finished bellow 2 place. They are the favorites.
- Ferrari, this time timing messed them, they could not do anything.
- RBR, give them fresh tyres and they win. Maybe that's what the race director thought. Not really, I think he jus made a mistake.
- All the other teams are having no chance to touch these 3. HAAS&STR had one offs. That's it. They might have one more excellent performances, at it might also include Mclaren, Renault, even Force India. Perhaps. Renault is pushing up, but reaching top 3 is, at the moment, impossibility.

- If Hamilton does not win anytime soon, he will start thinking of retirement. He does not enjoy in the moment. And he got beaten twice by the Bottas.
- Bottas who was so much boo'd lasdt race was very very good, and may I say, might surprise in the WDC.
- Vettel was again great and graceful in defeat, with error not of his own. Good trace of character.
- Kimi, excellent in qualy, somehow always looses in the race.
- Ricciardo was shining, like the sun in the UK. He does it rare, but then, it's a glow.
- Verstappen will learn. He is too huge a talent to continue this way.
- Alonso can give up hopes of podiums, let alone victories. That chop on Vettel was unnecessary.
- Hulk with 6th was overshadowed by the dynamics of the race in is in my book a real star of the race, along with Bottas and Ricciardo.

A bit unfair to say that Bottas beat Hamilton in Bahrain after Hamilton's 5 place grid penalty.


Where did Bottas finish? Where did Lewis finish? Nothing unfair about the claim at all.

Thank you Blake. :)
Hamilton was behind Bottas even in qualifications. Quite unusual.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:24 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I haven't watched the race, just the quick highlights of the race, so I have a question for people who watched it properly. Did Alonso force Vettel out of track near the end?

The highlights didn't show much, but Alonso didn't get penalised so I am not sure if he did something wrong (thought one doesn't mean the other).

he did. He left Vettel with nowhere to go. I've never quite understood why but Alonso has never liked Vettel and I think that showed yesterday!


If you've followed the sport for the last 10 years then it is quite clear why.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:27 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
I haven't watched the race, just the quick highlights of the race, so I have a question for people who watched it properly. Did Alonso force Vettel out of track near the end?

The highlights didn't show much, but Alonso didn't get penalised so I am not sure if he did something wrong (thought one doesn't mean the other).


Yes, but when this happens on the exit of corners it never gets penalised.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:00 am 
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davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I haven't watched the race, just the quick highlights of the race, so I have a question for people who watched it properly. Did Alonso force Vettel out of track near the end?

The highlights didn't show much, but Alonso didn't get penalised so I am not sure if he did something wrong (thought one doesn't mean the other).

he did. He left Vettel with nowhere to go. I've never quite understood why but Alonso has never liked Vettel and I think that showed yesterday!


If you've followed the sport for the last 10 years then it is quite clear why.

Yes jealousy and petty bitterness. We actually see quite a lot of that around this forum too.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:28 am 
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davidheath461 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I haven't watched the race, just the quick highlights of the race, so I have a question for people who watched it properly. Did Alonso force Vettel out of track near the end?

The highlights didn't show much, but Alonso didn't get penalised so I am not sure if he did something wrong (thought one doesn't mean the other).

he did. He left Vettel with nowhere to go. I've never quite understood why but Alonso has never liked Vettel and I think that showed yesterday!


If you've followed the sport for the last 10 years then it is quite clear why.

beyond normally rivalry, I mean


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:16 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I haven't watched the race, just the quick highlights of the race, so I have a question for people who watched it properly. Did Alonso force Vettel out of track near the end?

The highlights didn't show much, but Alonso didn't get penalised so I am not sure if he did something wrong (thought one doesn't mean the other).

he did. He left Vettel with nowhere to go. I've never quite understood why but Alonso has never liked Vettel and I think that showed yesterday!


Thanks Zoue, I also get the feeling that they are not the best pals for some reason, no idea why.

When Alonso left Ferrari he said they would never win titles anytime soon and now we see Vettel challenging for titles having won 10 races whilst Alonso has not had even 1 podium, jealousy.


He left Ferrari at the end of 2014.

It's 2018 now.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:18 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I haven't watched the race, just the quick highlights of the race, so I have a question for people who watched it properly. Did Alonso force Vettel out of track near the end?

The highlights didn't show much, but Alonso didn't get penalised so I am not sure if he did something wrong (thought one doesn't mean the other).

he did. He left Vettel with nowhere to go. I've never quite understood why but Alonso has never liked Vettel and I think that showed yesterday!

Flash back to Mexico last year and the Alonso/Hamilton battle near the end of the race, Hamilton got a run on the straight and got past Alonso going into the corner as Alonso defended the inside, Alonso simply ran deep on the brakes, touched Hamilton's car and forced him onto the outside kerb as he kept his position. Then later Hamilton managed to get on the inside of Alonso, he didn't touch Alonso's car but forced him wide almost off the track, Alonso immediately got on his radio and asked his team if Hamilton had forced him off the track, this for the benefit of the stewards who no doubt were listening in, his team said it was alright.

This being Alonso who says you must always leave the space and complains when he gets pushed off the track but he himself is one of the biggest culprits of forcing drivers off the track.


No different to Hamilton calling Verstappen a d!ck in Bahrain for his move at turn 1, yet Hamilton pulling that kind of move many times in the past.

All the top drivers are equally guilty of this hypocrisy.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:23 am 
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davidheath461 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I haven't watched the race, just the quick highlights of the race, so I have a question for people who watched it properly. Did Alonso force Vettel out of track near the end?

The highlights didn't show much, but Alonso didn't get penalised so I am not sure if he did something wrong (thought one doesn't mean the other).

he did. He left Vettel with nowhere to go. I've never quite understood why but Alonso has never liked Vettel and I think that showed yesterday!


Thanks Zoue, I also get the feeling that they are not the best pals for some reason, no idea why.

When Alonso left Ferrari he said they would never win titles anytime soon and now we see Vettel challenging for titles having won 10 races whilst Alonso has not had even 1 podium, jealousy.


He left Ferrari at the end of 2014.

It's 2018 now.

Let's put it this way he left Ferrari because he felt that would give him a better chance of winning a title, how is that working out for him?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:27 am 
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davidheath461 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I haven't watched the race, just the quick highlights of the race, so I have a question for people who watched it properly. Did Alonso force Vettel out of track near the end?

The highlights didn't show much, but Alonso didn't get penalised so I am not sure if he did something wrong (thought one doesn't mean the other).

he did. He left Vettel with nowhere to go. I've never quite understood why but Alonso has never liked Vettel and I think that showed yesterday!

Flash back to Mexico last year and the Alonso/Hamilton battle near the end of the race, Hamilton got a run on the straight and got past Alonso going into the corner as Alonso defended the inside, Alonso simply ran deep on the brakes, touched Hamilton's car and forced him onto the outside kerb as he kept his position. Then later Hamilton managed to get on the inside of Alonso, he didn't touch Alonso's car but forced him wide almost off the track, Alonso immediately got on his radio and asked his team if Hamilton had forced him off the track, this for the benefit of the stewards who no doubt were listening in, his team said it was alright.

This being Alonso who says you must always leave the space and complains when he gets pushed off the track but he himself is one of the biggest culprits of forcing drivers off the track.


No different to Hamilton calling Verstappen a d!ck in Bahrain for his move at turn 1, yet Hamilton pulling that kind of move many times in the past.

All the top drivers are equally guilty of this hypocrisy.

I did say one of the biggest culprits but I guessed you missed the bit a about him always complaining to the stewards.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:18 am 
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I wonder would this go some way to explaining Nando's attitude to & apparent dislike of Seb especially under blue flag conditions.

It might also shine some light on Seb's 2014 season.


https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ver-alonso

I hadn't seen the Alonso & Vettel thread so I think I should have posted this there.

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Last edited by ob1kenobi.23 on Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:13 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Let's put it this way he left Ferrari because he felt that would give him a better chance of winning a title, how is that working out for him?


His Ferrari contract expired at the end of 2016. It's highly doubtful that he would still be driving for Ferrari now if he hadn't walked away in 2014.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:13 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Let's put it this way he left Ferrari because he felt that would give him a better chance of winning a title, how is that working out for him?


His Ferrari contract expired at the end of 2016. It's highly doubtful that he would still be driving for Ferrari now if he hadn't walked away in 2014.

Ferrari had quite a good year in 2016, Vettel won 3 races and got plenty of podiums.

They were clearly the second best team, were else would he choose to go after 2016?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:28 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Ferrari had quite a good year in 2016, Vettel won 3 races and got plenty of podiums.

They were clearly the second best team, were else would he choose to go after 2016?

You're thinking of 2015; Ferrari didn't win any races in 2016, and Red Bull was the second-best team.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:59 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ferrari had quite a good year in 2016, Vettel won 3 races and got plenty of podiums.

They were clearly the second best team, were else would he choose to go after 2016?

You're thinking of 2015; Ferrari didn't win any races in 2016, and Red Bull was the second-best team.


Yep and James Allen said rival engineers had McLaren as 3rd best chassis by year end.

It's possible he stays through lack of options elsewhere of course but after 7 seasons without giving him the best car and the second half of the year Ferrari had in 2016 it's not certain by any stretch. Nor is it certain that Ferrari wouldn't be on the look out for someone younger instead.

Seb's on his 2nd contract now at Ferrari, How long do we play the Alonso gave up this car game?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:11 am 
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Vettel will not leave Ferrari, it is his aim to win a title there. If not possible he may move only if it is a another top team definitely not Mclaren. Moreover I do not think there will be any bitterness or regret whenever he leaves Ferrari unlike Alonso.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:35 pm 
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davidheath461 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Let's put it this way he left Ferrari because he felt that would give him a better chance of winning a title, how is that working out for him?


His Ferrari contract expired at the end of 2016. It's highly doubtful that he would still be driving for Ferrari now if he hadn't walked away in 2014.

Even then it changes little, 2015 was a decent season, so in 2016 who does he sign for apart from Ferrari at that point the third best team maybe second best team in the hands of Alonso, how many times did Mercedes and Red Bull say no over the years?

He surely doesn't sign for the struggling McLaren Honda team or the under performing Renault team?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:41 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ferrari had quite a good year in 2016, Vettel won 3 races and got plenty of podiums.

They were clearly the second best team, were else would he choose to go after 2016?

You're thinking of 2015; Ferrari didn't win any races in 2016, and Red Bull was the second-best team.


Yep and James Allen said rival engineers had McLaren as 3rd best chassis by year end.

It's possible he stays through lack of options elsewhere of course but after 7 seasons without giving him the best car and the second half of the year Ferrari had in 2016 it's not certain by any stretch. Nor is it certain that Ferrari wouldn't be on the look out for someone younger instead.

Seb's on his 2nd contract now at Ferrari, How long do we play the Alonso gave up this car game?

You think Alonso signs for Honda after 2 years of poor performance, he was tearing his hair out whilst being in the middle of all that but you think he actually walks into that situation?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:01 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ferrari had quite a good year in 2016, Vettel won 3 races and got plenty of podiums.

They were clearly the second best team, were else would he choose to go after 2016?

You're thinking of 2015; Ferrari didn't win any races in 2016, and Red Bull was the second-best team.


Yep and James Allen said rival engineers had McLaren as 3rd best chassis by year end.

It's possible he stays through lack of options elsewhere of course but after 7 seasons without giving him the best car and the second half of the year Ferrari had in 2016 it's not certain by any stretch. Nor is it certain that Ferrari wouldn't be on the look out for someone younger instead.

Seb's on his 2nd contract now at Ferrari, How long do we play the Alonso gave up this car game?

You think Alonso signs for Honda after 2 years of poor performance, he was tearing his hair out whilst being in the middle of all that but you think he actually walks into that situation?


I don't know. They convinced him before and maybe the redesigned Mercedes clone engine that Honda switched too that winter would be enough for the gamble. At the back end of 2016 there was actually real improvement for Honda and it was the going backwards with the 2017 engine that broke that relationship.

But we're missing the point I feel. If Alonso is at Ferrari then Seb isn't. So where is he and where is Verstappen. Does Rosberg retiring that winter change anything for those drivers? The knock in effect of Alonso still being at Ferrari are pretty big. And then there's the consideration Ferrari themselves would want to move on to someone younger.

There's just too many unknowns for anyone to be 100% sure how it would play out. If Alonso is still racing during Seb's next contract are we still saying those were cars Alonso walked out on?, it's just seems daft to me. 2015 and 16 are obvious as that was his contact so fair game. Anything after that is pure guesswork and not just where Alonso is but where everyone else is as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:21 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Let's put it this way he left Ferrari because he felt that would give him a better chance of winning a title, how is that working out for him?


His Ferrari contract expired at the end of 2016. It's highly doubtful that he would still be driving for Ferrari now if he hadn't walked away in 2014.

Even then it changes little, 2015 was a decent season, so in 2016 who does he sign for apart from Ferrari at that point the third best team maybe second best team in the hands of Alonso, how many times did Mercedes and Red Bull say no over the years?

He surely doesn't sign for the struggling McLaren Honda team or the under performing Renault team?


When have Red Bull said no? He turned them down in 2008 and Marko said they thought about going for him in 2014 but he was too far down the road with McLaren as well as for their YDP reasons. Horner said there was no room at the inn for Alonso last year when asked by a reporter but there was no suggestion Alonso or representatives had actually approached them (At least I've never seen one).

I've genuinely not heard of them turning down an approach from Alonso. (Mercedes, yeah).

I have heard about Newey's desire to work with him though. If Dan leaves and Sainz keeps getting Hulk'd and Gasly is deemed not ready then I wouldn't fall off my chair if a short term deal was done. Red Bull have loved boasting about their strength of driver line up and who better for Max to be alongside. He'll either beat him and become an even bigger star to market or get beat and learn some important things along the way.

Don't get me wrong I don't think it will happen, just a small outside chance but it genuinely wouldn't shock me if it happened. It's the only door at the top 3 teams I don't think is fully closed if Dan leaves.

_________________
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:11 pm
Posts: 2000
pokerman wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Let's put it this way he left Ferrari because he felt that would give him a better chance of winning a title, how is that working out for him?


His Ferrari contract expired at the end of 2016. It's highly doubtful that he would still be driving for Ferrari now if he hadn't walked away in 2014.

Even then it changes little, 2015 was a decent season, so in 2016 who does he sign for apart from Ferrari at that point the third best team maybe second best team in the hands of Alonso, how many times did Mercedes and Red Bull say no over the years?

He surely doesn't sign for the struggling McLaren Honda team or the under performing Renault team?


I don't know. But the relationship with Ferrari would be very strained at that point. 7 years without a title.


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