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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:43 pm 
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This is some serious overtaking!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:46 pm 
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that was crazy, rossi was hooked up. not sure if he is getting more comfortable in the indy car or that team has found something, but he is certainly coming into his own


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:23 pm 
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I think a little of both. But will say that I think F1 missed out on not finding a seat for Rossi. Not that I think he'd be a world beater but he would be a solid addition to the field. Now that he's finding success in Indy I don't think there's any way to pull him back to run in the mid-field in F1 though.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:30 pm 
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That's more cars than he overtook in his entire career in F1.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:41 pm 
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Yeah but people who never saw him drive in ChampCar don't realize the caliber driver Bourdais IS.
He got the call up to F1 at Toro Rosso at a time when the team was all over the place with drivers and committed to just one.
I don't know of any other team that has had so many excellent drivers whom they just let go to promote others and not necessarily for better ones.

Hartley is the latest wrong decision they made. He looks almost as out of his element as Badoer in 2009 and the great cucumber.
And Kvyat was ousted.

I hope that either they come to realize their mistake and call Kvyat back up to the race seat or that another team decides to give him a shot over their existing drivers.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:32 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Yeah but people who never saw him drive in ChampCar don't realize the caliber driver Bourdais IS.
He got the call up to F1 at Toro Rosso at a time when the team was all over the place with drivers and committed to just one.
I don't know of any other team that has had so many excellent drivers whom they just let go to promote others and not necessarily for better ones.

Hartley is the latest wrong decision they made. He looks almost as out of his element as Badoer in 2009 and the great cucumber.
And Kvyat was ousted.

I hope that either they come to realize their mistake and call Kvyat back up to the race seat or that another team decides to give him a shot over their existing drivers.


You've got to be joking?

STR exist to find talent for Red Bull. Keeping drivers for years is pointless. Once you've established a driver isn't good enough for Red Bull there is no point in keeping them.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:09 pm 
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Just saying, by the definition of overtaking 3 in the corner, before he'd turned into the corner, he'd got past 2 and when he did turn in, he was very nearly past the 3rd too. I can't argue that it looked really impressive swerving about the track and getting them all in so little time, but I sort of expected it to be while going round, well a corner from the title :D


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:10 pm 
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The Long Beach race was fantastic to watch. Lots of action.

As for the TV coverage, it obliterates F1. The cameras they have on the cars are so much more advanced than F1. F1 really doesn't care about us.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:39 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
The Long Beach race was fantastic to watch. Lots of action.

As for the TV coverage, it obliterates F1. The cameras they have on the cars are so much more advanced than F1. F1 really doesn't care about us.

a very sorry +1

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:01 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Yeah but people who never saw him drive in ChampCar don't realize the caliber driver Bourdais IS.
He got the call up to F1 at Toro Rosso at a time when the team was all over the place with drivers and committed to just one.
I don't know of any other team that has had so many excellent drivers whom they just let go to promote others and not necessarily for better ones.

Hartley is the latest wrong decision they made. He looks almost as out of his element as Badoer in 2009 and the great cucumber.
And Kvyat was ousted.

I hope that either they come to realize their mistake and call Kvyat back up to the race seat or that another team decides to give him a shot over their existing drivers.


You've got to be joking?

STR exist to find talent for Red Bull. Keeping drivers for years is pointless. Once you've established a driver isn't good enough for Red Bull there is no point in keeping them.

Not at all. Hartley's "performance" is a joke. He looks completely lost. At least Badoer hadn't driven in an actual race for almost a decade and was way past his prime. Hartley is supposed to be peaking and if that's indeed the case, he hit his ceiling and it was rather low IMPO. At least from everything hasn't shown thus far.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:16 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
The Long Beach race was fantastic to watch. Lots of action.

As for the TV coverage, it obliterates F1. The cameras they have on the cars are so much more advanced than F1. F1 really doesn't care about us.

a very sorry +1

+2 but let's give the new ownership some time. They seem to be aware of the situation.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:17 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Yeah but people who never saw him drive in ChampCar don't realize the caliber driver Bourdais IS.
He got the call up to F1 at Toro Rosso at a time when the team was all over the place with drivers and committed to just one.
I don't know of any other team that has had so many excellent drivers whom they just let go to promote others and not necessarily for better ones.

Hartley is the latest wrong decision they made. He looks almost as out of his element as Badoer in 2009 and the great cucumber.
And Kvyat was ousted.

I hope that either they come to realize their mistake and call Kvyat back up to the race seat or that another team decides to give him a shot over their existing drivers.


You've got to be joking?

STR exist to find talent for Red Bull. Keeping drivers for years is pointless. Once you've established a driver isn't good enough for Red Bull there is no point in keeping them.

Not at all. Hartley's "performance" is a joke. He looks completely lost. At least Badoer hadn't driven in an actual race for almost a decade and was way past his prime. Hartley is supposed to be peaking and if that's indeed the case, he hit his ceiling and it was rather low IMPO. At least from everything hasn't shown thus far.


He's miles more competitive than Badoer. He out qualified his team mate in the last race. I don't remember Badoer doing that in his races for Ferrari.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:35 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
He's miles more competitive than Badoer. He out qualified his team mate in the last race. I don't remember Badoer doing that in his races for Ferrari.

The Badoer part was clearly an exaggeration, but I think it's hard to argue with the basic sentiment that calling Hartley back was a mistake. As you yourself said...

Quote:
STR exist to find talent for Red Bull. Keeping drivers for years is pointless. Once you've established a driver isn't good enough for Red Bull there is no point in keeping them.

They dumped Hartley once because he wasn't good enough, and he's still not good enough. Why the call-up?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:38 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
He's miles more competitive than Badoer. He out qualified his team mate in the last race. I don't remember Badoer doing that in his races for Ferrari.

The Badoer part was clearly an exaggeration, but I think it's hard to argue with the basic sentiment that calling Hartley back was a mistake. As you yourself said...

Quote:
STR exist to find talent for Red Bull. Keeping drivers for years is pointless. Once you've established a driver isn't good enough for Red Bull there is no point in keeping them.

They dumped Hartley once because he wasn't good enough, and he's still not good enough. Why the call-up?


Because they felt he was the best available? Who else was there?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:42 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
They dumped Hartley once because he wasn't good enough, and he's still not good enough. Why the call-up?

Because they felt he was the best available? Who else was there?

I don't know who they talked to or who was willing to switch series, but there's a pretty long list of better drivers out there.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Bourdais drove great at Long Beach, the Indy cars are running close and I'm loving it. Can't wait for the rest of the season.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:02 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Not at all. Hartley's "performance" is a joke. He looks completely lost.


Does he? He's certainly still finding his feet, and besides Bahrain he's at the very least kept Gasly honest. He's out-qualified him 2/3 races this year, and 2/4 in the races they had together in 2017.

Fun Fact: when Brendon joined STR for Austin, Gasly had two F1 races under his belt already and was concentrating entirely on F1. Meanwhile Brendon drove the US GP, the 6 Hours of Fuji, the Mexican GP and the 6 hours of Shanghai in consecutive weekends, had a week break and then the Brazilian Grand Prix, the 6 Hours of Bahrain and the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix in consecutive weekends. That's seven top-tier races in eight weekends. Yet he still lead Gasly in Mexico when he suffered an engine failure and beat him in Abu Dhabi.

His racecraft has been a little patchy this year, but was ahead of Gasly in China when the Frenchman decided to punt him off. Once he can get his head down and fit himself into F1 I don't see why he couldn't have a few solid years in the sport.

Mark Webber said at the end of their time together with Porsche that he rated Hartley very highly. He did, from memory, however remark that it took Brendan a little bit to get settled before he really started to shine - so that could be a sign of him taking a little while to adjust to new scenarios. Think what you will of Mark Webber's driving ability, but he raced closely against some of the best of all time for several years and I expect he could see a very strong driver when he meets one (let alone drives the same car as them).

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:43 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
He's miles more competitive than Badoer. He out qualified his team mate in the last race. I don't remember Badoer doing that in his races for Ferrari.

The Badoer part was clearly an exaggeration, but I think it's hard to argue with the basic sentiment that calling Hartley back was a mistake. As you yourself said...

Quote:
STR exist to find talent for Red Bull. Keeping drivers for years is pointless. Once you've established a driver isn't good enough for Red Bull there is no point in keeping them.

They dumped Hartley once because he wasn't good enough, and he's still not good enough. Why the call-up?


Because they felt he was the best available? Who else was there?


They should have kept Kvyatt in the car then. Sorry but I have to agree that Hartley doesn't deserve to be in F1. Only Gasly's inexperience is saving him from complete embarrassment. But as the season progresses I expect Hartley to drop completely behind Gasly.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:50 am 
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kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
He's miles more competitive than Badoer. He out qualified his team mate in the last race. I don't remember Badoer doing that in his races for Ferrari.

The Badoer part was clearly an exaggeration, but I think it's hard to argue with the basic sentiment that calling Hartley back was a mistake. As you yourself said...

Quote:
STR exist to find talent for Red Bull. Keeping drivers for years is pointless. Once you've established a driver isn't good enough for Red Bull there is no point in keeping them.

They dumped Hartley once because he wasn't good enough, and he's still not good enough. Why the call-up?


Because they felt he was the best available? Who else was there?


They should have kept Kvyatt in the car then. Sorry but I have to agree that Hartley doesn't deserve to be in F1. Only Gasly's inexperience is saving him from complete embarrassment. But as the season progresses I expect Hartley to drop completely behind Gasly.


What's he done to make him look so out of place? He's hardly miles behind his team mate?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:27 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
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Not at all. Hartley's "performance" is a joke. He looks completely lost.


Does he? He's certainly still finding his feet, and besides Bahrain he's at the very least kept Gasly honest. He's out-qualified him 2/3 races this year, and 2/4 in the races they had together in 2017.

Fun Fact: when Brendon joined STR for Austin, Gasly had two F1 races under his belt already and was concentrating entirely on F1. Meanwhile Brendon drove the US GP, the 6 Hours of Fuji, the Mexican GP and the 6 hours of Shanghai in consecutive weekends, had a week break and then the Brazilian Grand Prix, the 6 Hours of Bahrain and the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix in consecutive weekends. That's seven top-tier races in eight weekends. Yet he still lead Gasly in Mexico when he suffered an engine failure and beat him in Abu Dhabi.

His racecraft has been a little patchy this year, but was ahead of Gasly in China when the Frenchman decided to punt him off. Once he can get his head down and fit himself into F1 I don't see why he couldn't have a few solid years in the sport.

Mark Webber said at the end of their time together with Porsche that he rated Hartley very highly. He did, from memory, however remark that it took Brendan a little bit to get settled before he really started to shine - so that could be a sign of him taking a little while to adjust to new scenarios. Think what you will of Mark Webber's driving ability, but he raced closely against some of the best of all time for several years and I expect he could see a very strong driver when he meets one (let alone drives the same car as them).

To be fair, it's not just Hartley, but Toro Rosso as a whole, and not because of the Honda Engine either.
They've gone from solid mid pack runners to bringin' up the rear. Pretty drastic jump if you ask me.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:17 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
To be fair, it's not just Hartley, but Toro Rosso as a whole, and not because of the Honda Engine either.
They've gone from solid mid pack runners to bringin' up the rear. Pretty drastic jump if you ask me.

Why exactly do you think it's not because of the Honda engine?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:48 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
He's miles more competitive than Badoer. He out qualified his team mate in the last race. I don't remember Badoer doing that in his races for Ferrari.

The Badoer part was clearly an exaggeration, but I think it's hard to argue with the basic sentiment that calling Hartley back was a mistake. As you yourself said...

Quote:
STR exist to find talent for Red Bull. Keeping drivers for years is pointless. Once you've established a driver isn't good enough for Red Bull there is no point in keeping them.

They dumped Hartley once because he wasn't good enough, and he's still not good enough. Why the call-up?


Because they felt he was the best available? Who else was there?


They should have kept Kvyatt in the car then. Sorry but I have to agree that Hartley doesn't deserve to be in F1. Only Gasly's inexperience is saving him from complete embarrassment. But as the season progresses I expect Hartley to drop completely behind Gasly.


What's he done to make him look so out of place? He's hardly miles behind his team mate?


Because every time he has stepped into an F1 car he has looked slow? And please don't give me that he has outqualified Gasly so far. That doesn't count, as Gasly is an even more inexperienced rookie himself and he already looks faster, especially in race pace.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:42 am 
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kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
The Badoer part was clearly an exaggeration, but I think it's hard to argue with the basic sentiment that calling Hartley back was a mistake. As you yourself said...


They dumped Hartley once because he wasn't good enough, and he's still not good enough. Why the call-up?


Because they felt he was the best available? Who else was there?


They should have kept Kvyatt in the car then. Sorry but I have to agree that Hartley doesn't deserve to be in F1. Only Gasly's inexperience is saving him from complete embarrassment. But as the season progresses I expect Hartley to drop completely behind Gasly.


What's he done to make him look so out of place? He's hardly miles behind his team mate?


Because every time he has stepped into an F1 car he has looked slow? And please don't give me that he has outqualified Gasly so far. That doesn't count, as Gasly is an even more inexperienced rookie himself and he already looks faster, especially in race pace.


Both are about evenly experienced in F1, and Gasly has a lot more recent experience in fast single seaters.
Not attacking Gasly here at all - but I think at this point the criticism on Hartley is wildly exaggerated. Gasly the past 5 seasons was an FR2.0 champ, rookie FR3.5 runner-up, GP2 winner and almost won SF with the (slightly) lesser of two engines after the last round was cancelled, having the momentum.

Hartley has pretty much held his own in 2 out of 3 rounds, which at this point is OK against a teammate with that kind of recent single seater experience.

Agree with others, Kvyat was done for, he wasn't good enough for RBR and at that point it's game over. If Hartley doesn't prove good enough, then it will be the same for him.

It's just the same as always though - people feel the need to decide on drivers after a handful of races. Totally unneeded.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:50 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Yeah but people who never saw him drive in ChampCar don't realize the caliber driver Bourdais IS.
He got the call up to F1 at Toro Rosso at a time when the team was all over the place with drivers and committed to just one.


I'm sorry but that's just looking for excuses. Bourdais was outscored 35 to 4 by Vettel. Even taking out that win for Vettel, that's still 25 to 4. A 29-year 4-time Champ Car winner against a 20-year-old with just a few races more under his belt. Then Buemi comes in, again a 20-year-old and total rookie now against a 30-year old with a season F1 under his belt, and Bourdais still doesn't beat him. 7-2 in qualifying against a young rookie!

So what case is there to be made for Bourdais here exactly? He didn't do well at all. Maybe he was let go rather early, but he showed us very little.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:17 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
The Long Beach race was fantastic to watch. Lots of action.

As for the TV coverage, it obliterates F1. The cameras they have on the cars are so much more advanced than F1. F1 really doesn't care about us.

a very sorry +1

+2 but let's give the new ownership some time. They seem to be aware of the situation.


yes and yes. i would really like to see the helmet cam at monaco and spa.

the split soured things for many hardcore indy car fans, obviously. i have been trying to get back into more of the indy car series the last couple years. looks like they have a good chassis/engine combination. glad they are going all nbc, that crew is good for indy car.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:50 pm 
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So did Hamilton in Bahrain.

Is it true there was more overtaking in the indycar season opener than F1 had in the entire 2017 F1 season? I thought I saw it somewhere on the net.

I wish a tv network would show extended highlights of the indycar series as it looks good, channel 5 used to back in the day when Alex Zanardi raced!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:53 am 
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YouTube is your friend. The series has their own channel and shows everything from highlights to full races.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:59 pm 
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mds wrote:

Both are about evenly experienced in F1, and Gasly has a lot more recent experience in fast single seaters.
Not attacking Gasly here at all - but I think at this point the criticism on Hartley is wildly exaggerated. Gasly the past 5 seasons was an FR2.0 champ, rookie FR3.5 runner-up, GP2 winner and almost won SF with the (slightly) lesser of two engines after the last round was cancelled, having the momentum.

Hartley has pretty much held his own in 2 out of 3 rounds, which at this point is OK against a teammate with that kind of recent single seater experience.

Agree with others, Kvyat was done for, he wasn't good enough for RBR and at that point it's game over. If Hartley doesn't prove good enough, then it will be the same for him.

It's just the same as always though - people feel the need to decide on drivers after a handful of races. Totally unneeded.


Hartley is 28th years old, Gasly is 22. And from what I could tell he has plenty of single seater experience as well, but Redbull dropped him and his single seater career almost came to an end, probably because he was not good enough. So Hartley is a guy that should have been in F1 a long time ago but didn't make it then, because he was not good enough. If you weren't good enough to make it the first time around you're probably not goood enough to make it the next time around. It's just that Redbull didn't have anyone else available to put in the car. The fact he appears to be "holding his own" against Gasly says more about Gasly in my opinion. But they are both probably not good enough to be on the grid.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:48 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
mds wrote:

Both are about evenly experienced in F1, and Gasly has a lot more recent experience in fast single seaters.
Not attacking Gasly here at all - but I think at this point the criticism on Hartley is wildly exaggerated. Gasly the past 5 seasons was an FR2.0 champ, rookie FR3.5 runner-up, GP2 winner and almost won SF with the (slightly) lesser of two engines after the last round was cancelled, having the momentum.

Hartley has pretty much held his own in 2 out of 3 rounds, which at this point is OK against a teammate with that kind of recent single seater experience.

Agree with others, Kvyat was done for, he wasn't good enough for RBR and at that point it's game over. If Hartley doesn't prove good enough, then it will be the same for him.

It's just the same as always though - people feel the need to decide on drivers after a handful of races. Totally unneeded.


Hartley is 28th years old, Gasly is 22. And from what I could tell he has plenty of single seater experience as well, but Redbull dropped him and his single seater career almost came to an end, probably because he was not good enough. So Hartley is a guy that should have been in F1 a long time ago but didn't make it then, because he was not good enough. If you weren't good enough to make it the first time around you're probably not goood enough to make it the next time around. It's just that Redbull didn't have anyone else available to put in the car. The fact he appears to be "holding his own" against Gasly says more about Gasly in my opinion. But they are both probably not good enough to be on the grid.


You seem to have picked up on like two words in my post and ignore all the rest.
I've listed Gasly's achievements - they speak for themselves and they make it so that Gasly is in F1 on full merit. Making it in the feeder series does not guarantee making it in F1, but let's not rule after a handful of races. I thoroughly detest this modern-day urge of lots of people to want to decide upon whether a driver will or won't be good enough after just a few races.

As for Hartley, he does have plenty of single seater experience, but not in recent years. Again as I said, given the lack of recent single seater experience, I think he's doing OK for now.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:23 pm 
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What is the Hartley/Gasly relationship to Bourdais' overtake of three cars?

;)

For what it is worth, that was pretty cool overtake that Bourdais made.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:04 am 
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mds wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Yeah but people who never saw him drive in ChampCar don't realize the caliber driver Bourdais IS.
He got the call up to F1 at Toro Rosso at a time when the team was all over the place with drivers and committed to just one.


I'm sorry but that's just looking for excuses. Bourdais was outscored 35 to 4 by Vettel. Even taking out that win for Vettel, that's still 25 to 4. A 29-year 4-time Champ Car winner against a 20-year-old with just a few races more under his belt. Then Buemi comes in, again a 20-year-old and total rookie now against a 30-year old with a season F1 under his belt, and Bourdais still doesn't beat him. 7-2 in qualifying against a young rookie!

So what case is there to be made for Bourdais here exactly? He didn't do well at all. Maybe he was let go rather early, but he showed us very little.

I was a Bourdais apologist on here at the time, more because of wanting him to succeed than any actual solid results. I think in terms of speed he was right there (Monaco '09 was a fine drive), but the cut throat Toro Rosso environment was probably the worst place for him to start out with how fragile he is mentally. I've never seen a driver cry more often than Bourdais.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:00 am 
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jono794 wrote:
mds wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Yeah but people who never saw him drive in ChampCar don't realize the caliber driver Bourdais IS.
He got the call up to F1 at Toro Rosso at a time when the team was all over the place with drivers and committed to just one.


I'm sorry but that's just looking for excuses. Bourdais was outscored 35 to 4 by Vettel. Even taking out that win for Vettel, that's still 25 to 4. A 29-year 4-time Champ Car winner against a 20-year-old with just a few races more under his belt. Then Buemi comes in, again a 20-year-old and total rookie now against a 30-year old with a season F1 under his belt, and Bourdais still doesn't beat him. 7-2 in qualifying against a young rookie!

So what case is there to be made for Bourdais here exactly? He didn't do well at all. Maybe he was let go rather early, but he showed us very little.

I was a Bourdais apologist on here at the time, more because of wanting him to succeed than any actual solid results. I think in terms of speed he was right there (Monaco '09 was a fine drive), but the cut throat Toro Rosso environment was probably the worst place for him to start out with how fragile he is mentally. I've never seen a driver cry more often than Bourdais.


Me too. he showed flashes of potential and had the CV to back it up. It's just bad luck that he was paired up against a driver who would turn out to be potentially the best driver on the grid, and one of the most successful of all time within a few years.

Bourdais was overshadowed by Vettel, but it shouldn't be forgotten he was not far off a podium on the race before Vettel won in Monza. Then he qualified third behind Vettel in the next race. Had the podium come off, maybe people would have viewed him differently.

(My heart broke for him when I first saw this, and still does.)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:35 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
jono794 wrote:
mds wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Yeah but people who never saw him drive in ChampCar don't realize the caliber driver Bourdais IS.
He got the call up to F1 at Toro Rosso at a time when the team was all over the place with drivers and committed to just one.


I'm sorry but that's just looking for excuses. Bourdais was outscored 35 to 4 by Vettel. Even taking out that win for Vettel, that's still 25 to 4. A 29-year 4-time Champ Car winner against a 20-year-old with just a few races more under his belt. Then Buemi comes in, again a 20-year-old and total rookie now against a 30-year old with a season F1 under his belt, and Bourdais still doesn't beat him. 7-2 in qualifying against a young rookie!

So what case is there to be made for Bourdais here exactly? He didn't do well at all. Maybe he was let go rather early, but he showed us very little.

I was a Bourdais apologist on here at the time, more because of wanting him to succeed than any actual solid results. I think in terms of speed he was right there (Monaco '09 was a fine drive), but the cut throat Toro Rosso environment was probably the worst place for him to start out with how fragile he is mentally. I've never seen a driver cry more often than Bourdais.


Me too. he showed flashes of potential and had the CV to back it up. It's just bad luck that he was paired up against a driver who would turn out to be potentially the best driver on the grid, and one of the most successful of all time within a few years.

Bourdais was overshadowed by Vettel, but it shouldn't be forgotten he was not far off a podium on the race before Vettel won in Monza. Then he qualified third behind Vettel in the next race. Had the podium come off, maybe people would have viewed him differently.

(My heart broke for him when I first saw this, and still does.)

As does mine, he's a good driver. Timing can be so much in life, who knows what he could have done. All I know is he's great to watch in Indy. Ironic how the Indy 500 crash footage was the next video, scary stuff and look how well he's come back. I wish him well.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:38 am 
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Worth pointing out that as impressive as it looked, the move was deemed illegal and he had to give a place back. But it was still spectacular.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:41 pm 
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I finally got around to watching this race yesterday. That was a daring move and a bit of a shame that he put his wheels over the pit exit line to nullify it. Bourdais had a really rough day all around and I think he might've had the car to challenge Rossi that day with out errors on his part and others.

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