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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:43 am 
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0 POINTS thus far this seasons in what has been an extremely competitive car.

Although he has had some bad luck in terms of car issues in qualifying (and of course the wheel nut in AUS), to me he seems like a guy driving with TOO much emotion. He must be under a ton of pressure with the start KMag has produced on the other side of the garage but seems every small thing that goes wrong in the car produces a very Over The Top reaction from him. I believe he was in tears after Baku QUALIFYING for example. He seems to have a great relationship with his team and it's only 4 races in but realistically he needs to start producing results or i think the strain will start showing.
Furthermore, he seems to have a really hard time claiming responsibility for anything (which dates back to him being a rookie) i mean his first reaction after bottling it into the wall was to blame Ericsson.

What's everyones thoughts on his position at the moment ??

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 1:29 am 
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I agree with your point about being overly emotional and unable to admit a mistake. He always seems to have a childish outburst when he crashes out of a race (which seems to happen quite often). The reality is that he's 32 now and the days of being considered a young prospect are over. The dream of driving for one of the big teams is fading and now it's just about staying in F1. He's feeling the pressure IMO but I wouldn't put it past him to beat KMag on the season after all is said and done. Certainly he was the better driver last year and he has been really unlucky so far this season.


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 3:48 am 
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I'll pass!

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:08 am 
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Not particularly fast and abysmal when anything gets slippery. I don't think he really had the beating of Magnussen last seasons either, and I don't rate Magnussen that highly. I think it's time for Haas to make a change.


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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:38 am 
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Seems to stick it in the wall every 3 or 4 weekends, then precedes to blame other drivers, brakes and basically anything other than himself. Always felt he deserved the reputation of being crash happy more than Pastor.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 11:29 am 
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Ericsson's fault, he hit Grosjean :twisted:

I agree with the OP, too much emotion and not enough results. He's got to improve or he's gone I think.

Hey, maybe Danny Ric will endup at Haas!!


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Unlucky at race 1.

But, jeez can that guy moan - I reckon it's played out over the TV on purpose some times !

Not exactly team building is it.

The Ericsson comment really did make me laugh.

Solid driver, but more mistakes seem to be creeping in.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 12:31 pm 
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When he finishes his carrier soon, he can still have a few pictures where he stood on podium with the big guys. If he asks them, meybe he will get an autograph from them.

I actually feel worry for him. Occasionally he was even on the Ferrari radar. I have a soft spot for French drivers, probably an aftereffect of the sympathetic F1 star cluster from the end of 70's and beginning of 80's, minus Pironi.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 2:50 pm 
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I didn't rate him when he entered F1, and I don't rate him now. How this guy stays in F1 as a non-pay driver is a mystery.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:20 pm 
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He was one of the better drivers on the grid for much of the 2013 season. But besides that I must admit he has been bad or mediocre. Not sure what to make of this season. I’ve read somewhere that this year’s Haas car has an understeery balance by nature and it suits Kmag more than Rogro.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:31 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
He was one of the better drivers on the grid for much of the 2013 season. But besides that I must admit he has been bad or mediocre. Not sure what to make of this season. I’ve read somewhere that this year’s Haas car has an understeery balance by nature and it suits Kmag more than Rogro.


I really think the Lotus flattered both it's drivers in 2012 and 2013.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:46 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
He was one of the better drivers on the grid for much of the 2013 season. But besides that I must admit he has been bad or mediocre. Not sure what to make of this season. I’ve read somewhere that this year’s Haas car has an understeery balance by nature and it suits Kmag more than Rogro.


I really think the Lotus flattered both it's drivers in 2012 and 2013.


You’re probably right but he made very few mistakes that year and got a few podiums. Also when they put Kovalainen in the car he was miles off Grosjean.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:06 pm 
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DirtyMike wrote:
What's everyones thoughts on his position at the moment ??


My opinion on him hasn't changed from day one. He hasn't changed at all and most drivers don't. The thing is.. he has never done well at taking blame.. the recent one a prime example...

Not a fan, I think he is just full of hype.. what's the point in talent if it gets thrown away constantly. Otherwise have done well even under extreme circumstances. Every driver can make mistakes but his are constant.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:13 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
He was one of the better drivers on the grid for much of the 2013 season. But besides that I must admit he has been bad or mediocre. Not sure what to make of this season. I’ve read somewhere that this year’s Haas car has an understeery balance by nature and it suits Kmag more than Rogro.

I'd find it hard to look upon 2013 as a statistical anomaly in a career of underachievement; the more likely scenario is that Grosjean was never that good and the Lotus was better than we thought it was at the time. I think what we've since learned is that Lotus should have been a title contender in 2012 and 2013 if they'd picked better drivers.


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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 11:57 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
He was one of the better drivers on the grid for much of the 2013 season. But besides that I must admit he has been bad or mediocre. Not sure what to make of this season. I’ve read somewhere that this year’s Haas car has an understeery balance by nature and it suits Kmag more than Rogro.


I really think the Lotus flattered both it's drivers in 2012 and 2013.


You’re probably right but he made very few mistakes that year and got a few podiums. Also when they put Kovalainen in the car he was miles off Grosjean.


Very hard to know but the way those 2 drivers have performed since would suggest Lotus could have had a great shot in 2012 (don't think anyone was beating Vettel in 2013). I feel like measuring anyone against KOV at that point is fairly useless IMO.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 11:58 pm 
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Teddy007 wrote:
DirtyMike wrote:
What's everyones thoughts on his position at the moment ??


My opinion on him hasn't changed from day one. He hasn't changed at all and most drivers don't. The thing is.. he has never done well at taking blame.. the recent one a prime example...

Not a fan, I think he is just full of hype.. what's the point in talent if it gets thrown away constantly. Otherwise have done well even under extreme circumstances. Every driver can make mistakes but his are constant.


Agreed, maybe he lacks the concentration of the other drivers. He just makes too many blunders for them to all be a 'car fault' as he constantly suggests

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:19 am 
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DirtyMike wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
He was one of the better drivers on the grid for much of the 2013 season. But besides that I must admit he has been bad or mediocre. Not sure what to make of this season. I’ve read somewhere that this year’s Haas car has an understeery balance by nature and it suits Kmag more than Rogro.


I really think the Lotus flattered both it's drivers in 2012 and 2013.


You’re probably right but he made very few mistakes that year and got a few podiums. Also when they put Kovalainen in the car he was miles off Grosjean.


Very hard to know but the way those 2 drivers have performed since would suggest Lotus could have had a great shot in 2012 (don't think anyone was beating Vettel in 2013). I feel like measuring anyone against KOV at that point is fairly useless IMO.



Agreed. Kovalainen was pretty slow even during his 'peak', at McLaren. Comparing anyone to him when he'd been dropped into an unfamiliar car after an absence from the sport isn't a fair test!

Grosjean has been flattered by good cars and sub-par teammates, in my opinion. He was smashed by Alonso (forgiveable for any rookie), before being soundly beaten by Raikkonen (who was subsequently smashed by Alonso), and the only yardsticks he's had since are Maldonado and now Magnussen, who is beginning to get the better of him.

He needs to stop being F1's biggest moaner, put his head down and work on his consistency!


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:27 am 
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j man wrote:
kleefton wrote:
He was one of the better drivers on the grid for much of the 2013 season. But besides that I must admit he has been bad or mediocre. Not sure what to make of this season. I’ve read somewhere that this year’s Haas car has an understeery balance by nature and it suits Kmag more than Rogro.

I'd find it hard to look upon 2013 as a statistical anomaly in a career of underachievement; the more likely scenario is that Grosjean was never that good and the Lotus was better than we thought it was at the time. I think what we've since learned is that Lotus should have been a title contender in 2012 and 2013 if they'd picked better drivers.


Kimi finished 3rd in WDC in 2012 and if he was fit would have also finished 3rd in 2013. He was suffering from back pain for sometime so had to miss last few races

Haas has scored very less points so far. Obviously the first race was very unfortunate as they had great opportunity there. Grosjean and K Mag are good but inconsistent drivers. They should just be hoping that Haas can also keep improving their car throughout the season and results should come

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 3:16 pm 
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I think Kmag has stepped it up this year and Grosjean is suffering from a spell of bad luck. In the past I have slated the guy for all the crashing but I actually do enjoy his driving style and personality.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:08 pm 
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There was a time when I thought that Grosjean was equally good as Vettel, quite possible even a bit quicker. That was back in 2012/13. After that he hasn't had good enough cars was my thought but the mistakes are showing and he can never accept that he is to blame.

I've been a fan since 2012 but I agree that perhaps Haas should look for someone else. Ruining his race behind the SC and blaming it on Ericsson was distasteful.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:46 pm 
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DirtyMike wrote:
kleefton wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
He was one of the better drivers on the grid for much of the 2013 season. But besides that I must admit he has been bad or mediocre. Not sure what to make of this season. I’ve read somewhere that this year’s Haas car has an understeery balance by nature and it suits Kmag more than Rogro.


I really think the Lotus flattered both it's drivers in 2012 and 2013.


You’re probably right but he made very few mistakes that year and got a few podiums. Also when they put Kovalainen in the car he was miles off Grosjean.


Very hard to know but the way those 2 drivers have performed since would suggest Lotus could have had a great shot in 2012 (don't think anyone was beating Vettel in 2013). I feel like measuring anyone against KOV at that point is fairly useless IMO.


I brought up Kovalainen because he couldn't even put the car in the points while Grosjean was fighting the Redbulls. I expected him to be slower than Grosjean, but not that slow. So to me it showed that Grosjean was driving at a high level. I understand it's hard to give the guy credit but he really drove well that year. He could have won the Hungary race if he didn't get penalized for what was a great overtaking move. Driver performance is not static from year to year. For some reason he seems to have lost a lot of confidence over the years. I guess when you spend so many years in difficult cars it can shatter confidence.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:49 pm 
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Warheart01 wrote:
There was a time when I thought that Grosjean was equally good as Vettel, quite possible even a bit quicker. That was back in 2012/13. After that he hasn't had good enough cars was my thought but the mistakes are showing and he can never accept that he is to blame.

I've been a fan since 2012 but I agree that perhaps Haas should look for someone else. Ruining his race behind the SC and blaming it on Ericsson was distasteful.


To be fair he wasn't the one who blamed it on Ericsson, it was his engineer.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 4:56 pm 
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My bad then.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:20 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
Warheart01 wrote:
There was a time when I thought that Grosjean was equally good as Vettel, quite possible even a bit quicker. That was back in 2012/13. After that he hasn't had good enough cars was my thought but the mistakes are showing and he can never accept that he is to blame.

I've been a fan since 2012 but I agree that perhaps Haas should look for someone else. Ruining his race behind the SC and blaming it on Ericsson was distasteful.


To be fair he wasn't the one who blamed it on Ericsson, it was his engineer.


His engineer is as bad as him then considering they've got all the screens & data in front of them!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:06 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Not particularly fast and abysmal when anything gets slippery. I don't think he really had the beating of Magnussen last seasons either, and I don't rate Magnussen that highly. I think it's time for Haas to make a change.

He really is, perhaps the worst rain driver in the midfield. He has crashed so many times in the wet and never has any pace.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 9:59 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
j man wrote:
kleefton wrote:
He was one of the better drivers on the grid for much of the 2013 season. But besides that I must admit he has been bad or mediocre. Not sure what to make of this season. I’ve read somewhere that this year’s Haas car has an understeery balance by nature and it suits Kmag more than Rogro.

I'd find it hard to look upon 2013 as a statistical anomaly in a career of underachievement; the more likely scenario is that Grosjean was never that good and the Lotus was better than we thought it was at the time. I think what we've since learned is that Lotus should have been a title contender in 2012 and 2013 if they'd picked better drivers.


Kimi finished 3rd in WDC in 2012 and if he was fit would have also finished 3rd in 2013. He was suffering from back pain for sometime so had to miss last few races

Yes he did. But where do you think Alonso would have finished with that car?


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 11:01 pm 
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I would release Grosjean with immediate effect, were I Haas.
Put an American in the car.
Newgarden, Rossi.......or even (gasp) Kyle Busch.
You might say Busch is to old to make the transition to F1. I think he could still be WC, even into his early 40's.

I'd get rid of the Dane too. Yes, I do realize he has their only points, and I do not believe this just because of the Gasly incident.


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 5:53 am 
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Grosjean has been in the sport too long and achieved far too little to be worthy of still being on the grid I believe. Haas could throw any rookie in the car and at have a decent chance of them amounting to something more than Romain has.

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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 6:32 am 
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IXIAN wrote:
I would release Grosjean with immediate effect, were I Haas.
Put an American in the car.
Newgarden, Rossi.......or even (gasp) Kyle Busch.
You might say Busch is to old to make the transition to F1. I think he could still be WC, even into his early 40's.

I'd get rid of the Dane too. Yes, I do realize he has their only points, and I do not believe this just because of the Gasly incident.


At 6'3 and 87kg, Busch is probably too big for F1


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:16 am 
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Badgeronimous wrote:
IXIAN wrote:
I would release Grosjean with immediate effect, were I Haas.
Put an American in the car.
Newgarden, Rossi.......or even (gasp) Kyle Busch.
You might say Busch is to old to make the transition to F1. I think he could still be WC, even into his early 40's.

I'd get rid of the Dane too. Yes, I do realize he has their only points, and I do not believe this just because of the Gasly incident.


At 6'3 and 87kg, Busch is probably too big for F1



..and Newgarden and Rossi are going nowhere right now. Reigning champ and one of what is shaping up to be his closest rivals wont be swapping the sharp end of the grid in Indy for middling team in F1. Rossi has already been burnt once too.

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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:25 am 
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IXIAN wrote:
I would release Grosjean with immediate effect, were I Haas.
Put an American in the car.
Newgarden, Rossi.......or even (gasp) Kyle Busch.
You might say Busch is to old to make the transition to F1. I think he could still be WC, even into his early 40's.

I'd get rid of the Dane too. Yes, I do realize he has their only points, and I do not believe this just because of the Gasly incident.


Me too. I can stand looking at the Williams' pair even but not the Haas pair. This year's car is not suiting Grosjean & I hate his moaning on the radio. As for Magnussen, he's better but his aptitude for being an eye sore for other drivers really can't be digested.

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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 3:44 pm 
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i would like to see haas go after perez.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 2:25 am 
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How much longer does RoGro have on his contract?

Hass really needs to look at someone else.
But who are realistic prospects for the seat?
I'd be hesitant to promote Kmag to lead driver with his attitude and reputation he's building.

Perez

Vandorne - surely won't last another season at McLaren unless he improves big time.

Leclerc - maybe convince Ferrari to put him in the Hass to see what he can do at the pointy end of the mid field?

Hartley- if he gets the boot from STR?


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 3:06 am 
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Glasnost wrote:
How much longer does RoGro have on his contract?

Hass really needs to look at someone else.
But who are realistic prospects for the seat?
I'd be hesitant to promote Kmag to lead driver with his attitude and reputation he's building.

Perez

Vandorne - surely won't last another season at McLaren unless he improves big time.

Leclerc - maybe convince Ferrari to put him in the Hass to see what he can do at the pointy end of the mid field?

Hartley- if he gets the boot from STR?

For me, Leclerc is a no-brainer if they can make it happen. I think he's a very talented young driver; the second best F1 driver under 25 behind only Max IMO. Makes sense for Ferrari too. It's still a bit early for Leclerc to be considered for a Ferrari seat but a couple of years in a solid midfield car (that's what Haas have produced every year of their existence) should prepare him quite well and give Ferrari plenty of opportunity to assess his abilities.

Perez would probably look at Haas as a lateral move and Vandoorne really hasn't shown much of a spark in F1. He seems relatively solid but unspectacular. Yes, he's up against Alonso as a teammate and yes, there are some races where they don't run identical machinery. He has #2 status clearly but he still has plenty of opportunities to make something happen and he really hasn't yet. I think Alonso has outqualified him something like 8 straight times. It's just not impressive at all.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 3:06 am 
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I think both Haas drivers are among the weakest on the grid.

Magnussen is outperforming Grosjean, but that doesn't make him fast. The Haas is a strong car but both drivers have inconsistent performances and poor attitudes.

Maybe only the Williams drivers rank behind these two.

Haas could be a contender for best of the midfield. A good scenario would be to grab Raikkonen or Bottas if either is pushed out by Ricciardo, and employing a young gun like Leclerc.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 3:18 am 
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Again some Steiner TLC. Inn the article below he's saying because of Grosjean's reputation, he's an easy target.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2018/5/steiner--grosjean-penalty-like-kicking-him-in-the-face.html

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:27 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
How much longer does RoGro have on his contract?

Hass really needs to look at someone else.
But who are realistic prospects for the seat?
I'd be hesitant to promote Kmag to lead driver with his attitude and reputation he's building.

Perez

Vandorne - surely won't last another season at McLaren unless he improves big time.

Leclerc - maybe convince Ferrari to put him in the Hass to see what he can do at the pointy end of the mid field?

Hartley- if he gets the boot from STR?

For me, Leclerc is a no-brainer if they can make it happen. I think he's a very talented young driver; the second best F1 driver under 25 behind only Max IMO. Makes sense for Ferrari too. It's still a bit early for Leclerc to be considered for a Ferrari seat but a couple of years in a solid midfield car (that's what Haas have produced every year of their existence) should prepare him quite well and give Ferrari plenty of opportunity to assess his abilities.

Perez would probably look at Haas as a lateral move and Vandoorne really hasn't shown much of a spark in F1. He seems relatively solid but unspectacular. Yes, he's up against Alonso as a teammate and yes, there are some races where they don't run identical machinery. He has #2 status clearly but he still has plenty of opportunities to make something happen and he really hasn't yet. I think Alonso has outqualified him something like 8 straight times. It's just not impressive at all.



I couldn't agree more about Vandoorne. He is just so...bland? I can't believe many pundits were touting him as the next big thing before he came to F1.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:30 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
For me, Leclerc is a no-brainer if they can make it happen. I think he's a very talented young driver; the second best F1 driver under 25 behind only Max IMO.

Why behind Max, necessarily? Is there any objective measure that implies Max is better? He's certainly more experienced at the F1 level by now, but Leclerc has an equivalent or better junior record (considering Max basically has no junior record) and has started to completely dominate his experienced teammate lately.

Personally, I think it's way to early to place Leclerc relative to the other drivers except perhaps Ericsson, but his potential appears to be as high as anyone's.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:44 am 
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Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
For me, Leclerc is a no-brainer if they can make it happen. I think he's a very talented young driver; the second best F1 driver under 25 behind only Max IMO.

Why behind Max, necessarily? Is there any objective measure that implies Max is better? He's certainly more experienced at the F1 level by now, but Leclerc has an equivalent or better junior record (considering Max basically has no junior record) and has started to completely dominate his experienced teammate lately.

Personally, I think it's way to early to place Leclerc relative to the other drivers except perhaps Ericsson, but his potential appears to be as high as anyone's.


Leclerc's form currently will spell doom for Ericsson at the end of this year. Grosjean & Ericsson are wasting 2 good seats that are so limited in F1.

As for Grosjean, following his Baku crash behind the safety car it's like from the frying pan into the fire kind of situation!

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 6:28 am 
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Posts: 23034
kleefton wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Glasnost wrote:
How much longer does RoGro have on his contract?

Hass really needs to look at someone else.
But who are realistic prospects for the seat?
I'd be hesitant to promote Kmag to lead driver with his attitude and reputation he's building.

Perez

Vandorne - surely won't last another season at McLaren unless he improves big time.

Leclerc - maybe convince Ferrari to put him in the Hass to see what he can do at the pointy end of the mid field?

Hartley- if he gets the boot from STR?

For me, Leclerc is a no-brainer if they can make it happen. I think he's a very talented young driver; the second best F1 driver under 25 behind only Max IMO. Makes sense for Ferrari too. It's still a bit early for Leclerc to be considered for a Ferrari seat but a couple of years in a solid midfield car (that's what Haas have produced every year of their existence) should prepare him quite well and give Ferrari plenty of opportunity to assess his abilities.

Perez would probably look at Haas as a lateral move and Vandoorne really hasn't shown much of a spark in F1. He seems relatively solid but unspectacular. Yes, he's up against Alonso as a teammate and yes, there are some races where they don't run identical machinery. He has #2 status clearly but he still has plenty of opportunities to make something happen and he really hasn't yet. I think Alonso has outqualified him something like 8 straight times. It's just not impressive at all.



I couldn't agree more about Vandoorne. He is just so...bland? I can't believe many pundits were touting him as the next big thing before he came to F1.

I think being paired with Alonso is a nightmare for any young driver. Vandoorne could be very good but Alonso is just super impressive, particularly in below-par machinery. I also think he's one of the best qualifiers on the grid, with the potential to be THE best, so losing out to him there is no shame.

But yes, while I think being hammered by Alonso does not make a driver bad, it does suggest that maybe he's no better than good and perhaps not all that special, if that makes sense


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