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 Post subject: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:11 pm 
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Question: IF these mirrors were to fall off or be part broken, would this result in a orange & black (is that correct?) flag?

If so, they surely wouldn't be able to pit to fix the issue?

They just don't look sturdy and seems, even though I applaud the rule bending creativity, like a risky strategy having these on the car.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:20 pm 
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Mirrors have had issues before without any problem. I remember Kimi's mirror hanging by a thread in the past; what happened escapes me, but I don't remember him being black flagged


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:21 pm 
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I see no reason why they would be any weaker than the previous fixings. I am 100% certain Ferrari know how to make a fixing strong enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
I see no reason why they would be any weaker than the previous fixings. I am 100% certain Ferrari know how to make a fixing strong enough.


Oh I'm not saying they don't know how to but with anything, teams try and bend the rule so push everything to the max. Why do you think Haas have strengthened their car's body parts? They thought they could get away with lighter fittings.

I'd disagree, I think they look weaker than on the bulk of the car to be honest. Like I said, I appreciate their creativity, but I do think it's weaker.

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Are they using something different than the pictures I saw previously? From what I've seen these Halo mirrors are attached just as securely as the ones attached to the tub and if anything are more protected from impact from the side.

Doesn't mean that they aren't ugly as hell, but I don't think they're any less secure than the "traditional" mounting.

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 3:45 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Are they using something different than the pictures I saw previously? From what I've seen these Halo mirrors are attached just as securely as the ones attached to the tub and if anything are more protected from impact from the side.

Doesn't mean that they aren't ugly as hell, but I don't think they're any less secure than the "traditional" mounting.



I could be wrong. Just a thought as it's something new on the cars...

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 6:29 pm 
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They have additional bodywork above the mirror, disguised as a mount to hold it in place, but really for aero reasons. According to Ted Kravitz, the FIA aren't exactly pleased with it so there will probably be a technical directive issued on it before the next race.


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 7:44 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Are they using something different than the pictures I saw previously? From what I've seen these Halo mirrors are attached just as securely as the ones attached to the tub and if anything are more protected from impact from the side.

Doesn't mean that they aren't ugly as hell, but I don't think they're any less secure than the "traditional" mounting.


I fully agree. The stalks connecting the mirror body to the halo appear to be the same length as before. And since that halo is one strong piece of kit, the strength of the mounting point is not an issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 3:53 am 
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However, Vettel has said that the mirrors on the Halo offer better clarity. Other's will follow suit?

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 10:50 am 
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And Horner says he doubts we'll see them again...


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:08 am 
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Ferrari's Halo mounted mirrors have been disapproved by FIA & are essentially banned from Monaco onwards:
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11368648/spanish-gp-ferraris-halo-mounted-mirrors-banned-for-monaco

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:24 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Ferrari's Halo mounted mirrors have been disapproved by FIA & are essentially banned from Monaco onwards:
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11368648/spanish-gp-ferraris-halo-mounted-mirrors-banned-for-monaco
It would be interesting to see exactly what rule they've broken by having them there.

I despair at the FIA sometimes. Bunch of clowns who seem determined to stamp out any innovation


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:32 am 
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Zoue wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Ferrari's Halo mounted mirrors have been disapproved by FIA & are essentially banned from Monaco onwards:
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11368648/spanish-gp-ferraris-halo-mounted-mirrors-banned-for-monaco
It would be interesting to see exactly what rule they've broken by having them there.

I despair at the FIA sometimes. Bunch of clowns who seem determined to stamp out any innovation


Ferrari did not break any rules. But they added an extra element that is contrary to their philosophy in cleaning all the winglets and crap off the cars.

I like pushing the boundaries and innovating, but something enough is enough. Have you seen the new front wings? They now look like a goose has exploded. Feathers and stuff sticking out everywhere.

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:39 am 
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It will be interesting to see the grounds on which the Ferrari Halo mirrors have been banned.

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:40 am 
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Zoue wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Ferrari's Halo mounted mirrors have been disapproved by FIA & are essentially banned from Monaco onwards:
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11368648/spanish-gp-ferraris-halo-mounted-mirrors-banned-for-monaco
It would be interesting to see exactly what rule they've broken by having them there.

I despair at the FIA sometimes. Bunch of clowns who seem determined to stamp out any innovation

It's not because they mounted it to the halo, and mounting from the halo isn't banned, it's this:

Image
(screenshot from SkySports)


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:41 am 
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Fiki wrote:
It will be interesting to see the grounds on which the Ferrari Halo mirrors have been banned.

Very simple. Aerodynamic additions to the Halo have to be contained within 20mm of it. It's in the technical regulations.


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:48 am 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
It will be interesting to see the grounds on which the Ferrari Halo mirrors have been banned.

Very simple. Aerodynamic additions to the Halo have to be contained within 20mm of it. It's in the technical regulations.
I would agree, but how did the car pass scrutineering then? I know it is the responsibility of the team to make sure their car conforms with the technical regulations. But Ferrari is even being allowed to race with an illegal car at Barcelona in this case.

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 11:49 am 
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Yeah I didn't really understand how Ferrari thought that extra winglet would be allowed but why they are allowed to still run them this weekend is beyond me.

More teams should do it for a one-off then. Just put the mirrors on the halo and then stick as many winglets bigger than 20mm all around it, with some inference it's helping keep the mirror there of course, and apparently you can still run it that weekend as changing it would be too much trouble apparently.

Nice way for some free performance as a one-off for someone, go mad with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
It will be interesting to see the grounds on which the Ferrari Halo mirrors have been banned.

Very simple. Aerodynamic additions to the Halo have to be contained within 20mm of it. It's in the technical regulations.
I would agree, but how did the car pass scrutineering then? I know it is the responsibility of the team to make sure their car conforms with the technical regulations. But Ferrari is even being allowed to race with an illegal car at Barcelona in this case.

Ferrari are claiming it is part of the assembly to mount the wing mirror to keep it stable, which is obvious nonsense because they have a shorter attachment to the halo than the ones mounted to the chassis have from underneath without the need for a support.


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 12:11 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Yeah I didn't really understand how Ferrari thought that extra winglet would be allowed but why they are allowed to still run them this weekend is beyond me.

More teams should do it for a one-off then. Just put the mirrors on the halo and then stick as many winglets bigger than 20mm all around it, with some inference it's helping keep the mirror there of course, and apparently you can still run it that weekend as changing it would be too much trouble apparently.

Nice way for some free performance as a one-off for someone, go mad with it.

If they were going to be banned for this race then the FIA need to do it a lot sooner than right after FP3. They could have done it right at the beginning of the weekend


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Yeah I didn't really understand how Ferrari thought that extra winglet would be allowed but why they are allowed to still run them this weekend is beyond me.

More teams should do it for a one-off then. Just put the mirrors on the halo and then stick as many winglets bigger than 20mm all around it, with some inference it's helping keep the mirror there of course, and apparently you can still run it that weekend as changing it would be too much trouble apparently.

Nice way for some free performance as a one-off for someone, go mad with it.

If they were going to be banned for this race then the FIA need to do it a lot sooner than right after FP3. They could have done it right at the beginning of the weekend


Oh it should've been done on Thursday I agree, it's just typical incompetence from them.

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Yeah I didn't really understand how Ferrari thought that extra winglet would be allowed but why they are allowed to still run them this weekend is beyond me.

More teams should do it for a one-off then. Just put the mirrors on the halo and then stick as many winglets bigger than 20mm all around it, with some inference it's helping keep the mirror there of course, and apparently you can still run it that weekend as changing it would be too much trouble apparently.

Nice way for some free performance as a one-off for someone, go mad with it.

If they were going to be banned for this race then the FIA need to do it a lot sooner than right after FP3. They could have done it right at the beginning of the weekend


Oh it should've been done on Thursday I agree, it's just typical incompetence from them.

:thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 1:23 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
However, Vettel has said that the mirrors on the Halo offer better clarity. Other's will follow suit?


What's the betting when Vettel closes the door on Verstappen he claims he didn't see him there!


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Fiki wrote:
It will be interesting to see the grounds on which the Ferrari Halo mirrors have been banned.

Very simple. Aerodynamic additions to the Halo have to be contained within 20mm of it. It's in the technical regulations.
I would agree, but how did the car pass scrutineering then? I know it is the responsibility of the team to make sure their car conforms with the technical regulations. But Ferrari is even being allowed to race with an illegal car at Barcelona in this case.

Ferrari are claiming it is part of the assembly to mount the wing mirror to keep it stable, which is obvious nonsense because they have a shorter attachment to the halo than the ones mounted to the chassis have from underneath without the need for a support.
Shorter is only one element of the problem. Airflow, and therefore possible vibration another.

Option or Prime wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
However, Vettel has said that the mirrors on the Halo offer better clarity. Other's will follow suit?

What's the betting when Vettel closes the door on Verstappen he claims he didn't see him there!
Even with the split-view mirrors? Bad form! :-D

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2018 4:09 pm 
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It is a bit weird that the FIA say the new design is illegal but they will let Ferrari run an illegal car for a weekend anyway and score points. It would be horrible for the season though if Ferrari were DQ'd this weekend, but rules are rules I guess and should be applied. Illegal cars shouldn't be allowed to run, or should be DQ'd later if found illegal after the race inspection. I'm glad that Ferrari is getting away with it but I can understand why some people will be unhappy especially fans of rival teams and drivers.


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 1:44 am 
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Have no problem with the mirrors being affixed to the Halo. I have a problem with the winglets covering the mirrors.

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 7:42 am 
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I know there is a lot of rule bending that goes on in F1, but that wing above the mirror is ridiculous. They should have never been allowed to get past scrutineering...!! They should be given a hacksaw and some duct tape and have to remove them!!


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:02 pm 
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It is there for reliability. It's not a winglet. It is a sunshade for the mirror. Otherwise the mirror will overheat, distort & become ineffective.

OR

It's not an aerodynamic devise mounted to the Halo. It's an aerodynamic device mounted to a device mounted to the Halo. That should make it legal.


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari's Mirrors
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:14 pm 
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donr wrote:
It is there for reliability. It's not a winglet. It is a sunshade for the mirror. Otherwise the mirror will overheat, distort & become ineffective.

OR

It's not an aerodynamic devise mounted to the Halo. It's an aerodynamic device mounted to a device mounted to the Halo. That should make it legal.


:thumbup: :lol:

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